Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

Regular wrote:It's just me, or did anyone find it weird that when Mariupol was surrounded - Ukrainians didn't cry for help as much as they do when they have Azovstal surrounded? Only when there were no civilians left they went all out and started to cry for help? Does it mean they want to maximalize martyrdom?

Vann7 wrote:
The way for Russia losing this..

1) that all their generals , do not tell the truth to putin ,how their tactics against ukraine are terrible

and needs to be significantly modified .  Russia needs to achieve real air superiority

, other wise those endless waves of kamikazi ,attack and artillery guide drones , will cause hundreds of thousands of dead russian soldiers ,

because russia will never catchup with nato alliance production capabilities of modern artillery ,drones and intelligent missiles , like those fire and forget , ai Brimstone missiles..

that will only increase the destruction rate of russian military armor , add increase the pain of putin's army.

2) that everyone in the internet continues praising bad tactics and incompetence of russian military.. is only with pressure , and feedback and telling the truth , how can the russian military correct their mistakes..  having yes man generals around a already poor leadership of russia will only make things worse.  If they not told what they doing bad,, how are they suppose to ever learn ?  

3)russia failing to achieve air domination and air superiority , is russia major weakness. this is what zelensky was crying in first week ,he wanted to stop russia and he got it.. no longer russia flight hellicopters in the many dozens any place in ukraine.  the russian military don't have at all any air superiority and likely never will have , if they don't get their shit together and change their tactics.

russia needs many thousands of super cheap drones ,that their sole function is to simulate the flight of orion attack drones or even orlan-10 and intentionally lure ukros army ,to hit them , with manpads and s-300s airdefenses.

The more manpads ukraine fire , the more air defenses missiles they waste in fake targets , the less russian drones and real combat jets will be shotdown and the more ukraine will be out of missiles..
this is not rocket science.  Russia have decoys and drones, but the problem is that they don't use them properly and don't mass produce them and use them in the right numbers to make a difference  

if future wars , artillery will become obsolete ,

when nations manage to build super intelligent cheap drones in big numbers , with AI to do swarm saturation attacks ,that operate without human intervention are aware of enemy armor .  brimstom missiles already can do that ,, missiles that choose their own targets.. this is going to increase the pain of russia in a noticeable way ,russia military in the battle field, when all those columns of tanks caught in the middle of a group of brimstone missiles attack searching for armor .

Russia needs missiles like that . all this tactics of just capturing territory by just scorching earth ,that most of the missiles fails to hit any real target is not very efficient. neither from capturing point of view ,neither from winning wars.. in 21 century , it didn't worked well for armenia. drones will rule the battle field ,. period and russia needs to completely stop ukraine from using the airspace and keep ukraine soldiers heads hidding under ground , they can achieve that with far superior efficiency using modern drones in big enough numbers.   loitering munition for example , produce a big sound to scare everyone making them to believe the drone will hit them..  so just one drone can keep a hundred of soldiers heads down , for fear of being them the target..  this doesn't happen with artillery.  artillery don't keep flying around a zone , scaring enemy forces , forcing them in the run or to hide, .. intelligent drones can choose targets and keep searching ,while forcing enemy armies to seek cover.   ukraine do have the superior weapons to win the war in an efficient way..  russia only way could do that is scorching earth tactics , destroying entire cities with civilians inside , not leaving a single building standing.. Russia cruise missiles will not win a war , and russian artillery alone either is too slow ,specially if they don't receive permanent real time intel of enemy moving positions , something that only can be achieved by having a strong drone air support 24 hours a day above their soldiers positions.

flamming_python wrote:This argument about the Mosin-Nagant is academic

They were literally dished out to hastily mobilized school teachers and such

These aren't trained marksmen. They're civilians who at the most might have a little experience from the first war 8 years prior but would be pretty out of practice by now. More likely though, they're just ordinary civilians.
I mean I'm sure these rifles are used in defense of buildings, with attempts at all sorts of interesting tactics. But for people with that level of expertise, they'll be better off with AKs, and defend or advance the good old fashioned way - by attaining firepower superiority. Rain enough fire onto the advancing enemy and he won't be able to get closer. Rain enough fire onto an enemy in defense and you'll pin him and then you can get closer. That's why assault rifles are versatile and noob-friendly.

To hit even a target 300m away consistently with any sort of weapon, you need a lot of time spent at the range already. And BTW any AK apart from the most abysmal Bulgarian copy is perfectly accurate enough up to at least that range.
If we're talking about ranges beyond 300m, then any weapon that maintains accuracy to 400-800m is fabulous, but useless for most people. You'll need a scope on the rifle, that you'll need the training, nerves and so on to be able to use effectively, you'll need to know how to keep the scope zero'd, and so on and so on. Not that I even saw scopes on those rifles.

What a bolt-action rifle is good for as well though, is to teach the fundamentals of shooting. So I guess, it might be an interesting way to get the mobilized reserves through a baptism of fire. So long as you don't stick them anywhere too hairy. And then better issue them with AKs afterwards, unless they prove to be fantastic shots.

Serberus wrote:Denazified Wehrmacht troops from the failed Snake island assault.
Footage released by Zvezda News
https://t.me/istocni_front/5995

Eugenio Argentina wrote:

On one of them the inscription - "revenge for MH17".

I don’t understand how the shells delivered to the Ukrainians will avenge the Boeing shot down by the Ukrainians.  Do they explode in the barrel?

d_taddei2 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:This argument about the Mosin-Nagant is academic

They were literally dished out to hastily mobilized school teachers and such

These aren't trained marksmen. They're civilians who at the most might have a little experience from the first war 8 years prior but would be pretty out of practice by now. More likely though, they're just ordinary civilians.
I mean I'm sure these rifles are used in defense of buildings, with attempts at all sorts of interesting tactics. But for people with that level of expertise, they'll be better off with AKs, and defend or advance the good old fashioned way - by attaining firepower superiority. Rain enough fire onto the advancing enemy and he won't be able to get closer. Rain enough fire onto an enemy in defense and you'll pin him and then you can get closer. That's why assault rifles are versatile and noob-friendly.

To hit even a target 300m away consistently with any sort of weapon, you need a lot of time spent at the range already. And BTW any AK apart from the most abysmal Bulgarian copy is perfectly accurate enough up to at least that range.
If we're talking about ranges beyond 300m, then any weapon that maintains accuracy to 400-800m is fabulous, but useless for most people. You'll need a scope on the rifle, that you'll need the training, nerves and so on to be able to use effectively, you'll need to know how to keep the scope zero'd, and so on and so on. Not that I even saw scopes on those rifles.

What a bolt-action rifle is good for as well though, is to teach the fundamentals of shooting. So I guess, it might be an interesting way to get the mobilized reserves through a baptism of fire. So long as you don't stick them anywhere too hairy. And then better issue them with AKs afterwards, unless they prove to be fantastic shots.

Have you served? Iron sights can still get u hitting targets 600m even 800m if your good. Previous pics of troops armed with such looked far more professional than the ones in the video. And giving AK to noobs as u put isn't always a good thing, then then to be more trigger happy blasting off rounds wasting ammo, a bolt action reduces the tendancy to blast off as many and makes them more likely to actually aim when they fire. It's why here in UK cadet rifles were always bolt action or require a cock for every round to install a disciplined shot, I was a cadet for year before joining the army.

And as u said needing a scope needs training especially on the SVD hence a SVD hasn't been issued to then despite Russia having truck loads of SVD. And as previously stated the power of the mosin verses the AK. The AK is good for patrolling a d attacking but defending building in a built up area the mosin is rather more useful. I really wish people here had FIBUA training maybe they would understand that tactics are completely different and not based on call of duty or some film they have watched. Various weapons are used and a completely different ratio compared to fighting in the field. I spent a whole year training in FIBUA, majority of the time troops got 2 weeks.

Hole wrote:
Odessa

Demilitarization scalpels: Russian air-to-surface missiles
May 8, 2022

Second wave of demilitarization

In the course of "Special Operation Z", a new direction of demilitarization gradually emerged - the destruction of NATO weapons , with which the West saturates Ukraine. You can call it the second wave. It is difficult to overestimate the importance of the complex of these events. The initial stage of the special operation focused more on the destruction of weapons made in Ukraine and the USSR.

Now the priority is highly effective Western weapons, which are partially destroyed on distant frontiers, for example, in Lvov. But without the total destruction of the Dnieper bridges and crossings, a considerable part of military equipment will inevitably end up in the east of the country. And here it is already a stone's throw to the front. Logisticians of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will most likely disperse Western Lend-Lease among small storage facilities and warehouses, which seriously complicates the tasks of demilitarization.

On the one hand, such caches are difficult to detect, and on the other hand, they are not easy to destroy without collateral damage. Still, no one canceled the task of preserving the lives of civilians in Ukraine as much as possible. In the best traditions of the Ukrainian military, the storage of weapons is organized at civilian infrastructure facilities. It turns out and secretly, and Russia, in the event of the destruction of ammunition, can be accused of strikes on peaceful targets.

From the latter, in the Sinelnikovsky district of the Dnipropetrovsk region, weapons were placed on the territory of the agricultural complex in a warehouse with grain. Quite naturally, in early May, a Kh-59 rocket flew there, presumably. The product hit literally 20–30 meters from agricultural machinery. Of course, it was possible to work out the agricultural complex with both Caliber and even Iskander, but the destruction of the surroundings would be incomparable.

Why give Nazi propagandists another reason to denigrate the Russian army? Such work of the VSC is akin to the craft of a surgeon, when it is necessary to carefully cut out malignant tumors. Air-to-surface guided missiles from the arsenal of the Aerospace Forces are becoming real scalpels of demilitarization.

Homing seekers

Destroying the stocks of the Ukrainian army is far from the only task for aviation missiles. Legitimate targets are enemy armored vehicles, air defense systems of various classes, aircraft at airfields, command posts, and much more.

It is worth mentioning right away that in the framework of this review we will not touch on air-launched cruise missiles. Still, this is a different class of weapons, and their goals are of a different level. And they are less suitable for the conditional role of scalpels - there are several hundred kilograms of warheads on board. The products considered within the framework of the material can be conditionally called tactical or front-line air-to-surface missiles.

One of the most important systems of missiles designed for ground/surface targets is the homing seeker. Or the hand that controls the scalpel. Not to be confused with passive heads, which are equipped with anti-radar missiles. This weapon was discussed in the previous article “Suppression of Ukrainian Air Defense: Anti-Radar Arsenal of Russian Aviation” .

Previously, active radar seekers were common, for example, the 9B-1103M product for missiles with a diameter of 200 and 350 mm. Active homing allows you to search, capture and track moving targets according to preliminary target designation from the aircraft's onboard radar at a distance of up to 40 km. The improved radar GOS "Slanets" works with the target already at a distance of up to 70 km. For the Kh-31A guided missile, an active radar homing head was developed, which is capable of capturing a target after launch.

A separate class of homing systems are laser seekers, which, on the one hand, are more difficult to manufacture, but, on the other hand, are more accurate and smaller in weight and size. For example, the most common laser homing head 24N1 weighs only 10 kg - against 35–40 kg for a radar one. In addition, laser target designation is more difficult to suppress. There is also a minus - radar seekers operate at much greater distances (up to 40-70 km), while laser ones - no more than 12-15 km.

In the latter case, this is fraught with the carrier, which is often forced to enter the enemy air defense detection zone. The 24N1 product guides the missile to the target, illuminating either with an onboard laser or from a ground station. The seeker has three modes of operation: "arretir" (during takeoff and landing of the carrier aircraft), "target designation" (by commands of the carrier aircraft) and "tracking" (auto-tracking of the target). Developer - Central Design Bureau "Geophysics". Laser guidance systems work in conjunction with on-board target designation systems, for example, the Kaira laser-television system, which is mounted on the Su-24M.

Thermal homing heads on air-to-surface missiles are used to a limited extent due to low target contrast at long ranges and limited target selection capabilities. Still, there are many more "hot springs" on earth than in the sky. At the same time, for the Kh-25 light missile, the execution of the MTP is provided just with a thermal imaging seeker. This product was first introduced in 1993.

The most advanced GOS for guided missiles, of course, are TV heads TGSN. Let's analyze the logic of the work of "telephoto" on the example of the domestic "Tubus-2" (developer - NPO "Impulse"), which can be found on the Kh-29T missiles.

The initial search for the target is conducted by the pilot either visually or through on-board systems. The detected object for attack is transferred to the aiming and flight indicator, after which the TGSN is “attached” to it. After that, the pilot, making sure that the target is securely captured by "Tubus-2", launches the rocket. Further, the weapon independently goes to the target, focusing on the light-contrasting edge of the object - dark or light against the general background.

From the logic of television guidance, it is clear that it is impossible to suppress such a missile - the target is not irradiated with either a radar or a laser beam. In addition, "telephoto" guide the missile to the target much more accurately than laser. The circular probable deviation of the "Tubus-2" is about 2.2 meters, while the laser ones provide 3.5-4 meters. The main disadvantages of TGSN are the inability to work at night, as well as in fog and smoke.

VKS scalpels

The lightest air-to-surface missile in domestic combat aviation is the Kh-25ML, which is referred to as the "short-range modular missile." Indeed, the maximum range of the rocket is limited to 10 km. The rocket carries a warhead weighing 86 kg, including 70 kg of explosives and ready-made steel submunitions. According to the developers, the Kh-25ML is capable of penetrating up to 1 meter of concrete. By default, the ML version of the rocket is equipped with a laser homing head.

The modularity of the missile is expressed in the use of a wide range of seekers - from anti-radar (Kh-25MPU) and active radar (Kh-25MA) to thermal imaging (Kh-25MTP) and television (Kh-25MT). To work against enemy locators, the missile has an inertial guidance system. This means that the air defense system will not be able to escape, even if it turns off the radars - the missile "from memory" will find the enemy. The missile's flight path is built according to the traditional principle - first flying at low altitude, then sliding and diving at the target in order to cause maximum damage.

The next model in the VKS arsenal is the S-25L missile, developed at the Tochmash Central Research Institute. Everything is simple with this product - it was developed and manufactured on the basis of the S-25-OFM unguided rocket. A 24N1 laser homing was put into the nose of a 400-kilogram rocket, an autopilot, rudders and drives were added, as well as a power supply unit for the entire economy. It turned out cheaply and cheerfully - from the well-mastered NUR industry, they received high-precision weapons.

It is possible to turn an unguided rocket into a guided one in the conditions of an airfield with the help of two people, literally under the wing of a carrier aircraft. The S-25L carries a 150-kg warhead in a thick-walled penetrating hull for 7 km, and the S-25LD variant for 10 km. At choice, the missile can be equipped with all types of homing heads, with the exception of anti-radar. Most often, missiles can be found under the wing of Su-25 attack aircraft.

The X-29 missile is designed for hard work, the weight of the warhead of which starts from 317 kg. With such a product, one can already hit the current bridges across the Dnieper or even the Beskydy railway tunnel, through which a lot of Western weapons pass. The X-29L laser-guided missile passed its baptism of fire in Afghanistan and at the same time the most effective scheme for its use appeared. The pilot of the Su-25 missile launcher cannot independently illuminate the target for a long time, so this function was assigned to ground target designation, most often to aircraft controller combat vehicles.

As experience has shown, when destroying a large pillbox, one Su-25 with a pair of Kh-29s replaced a link of heavier Su-24s with 8 tons of bombs and 4 S-25 unguided missiles. The elimination of a 100-meter road bridge required six bombers with 12 FAB-500s, or a pair of Su-25s with four X-29s.

In general, a real scalpel of the Russian Aerospace Forces. The aiming heads of this surgical instrument are either laser or television. The weight of the rocket, depending on the version, varies from 657 to 686 kg.

Even heavier is the Kh-59 Gadfly missile, developed on the basis of the Kh-29 with television homing. The main advantage over its predecessor is a much longer range of application. If the Kh-29T and Kh-29L work from 8-13 km, then the Gadfly - from 40 km from the target. It is clear that to overcome such a distance, more fuel is required, due to which the mass of the warhead is reduced.

As a result, the Kh-59, with a total weight of 790 kg, carries with it only 143 kg of a high-explosive cumulative warhead. In the Kh-59M and Kh-59ME versions, the tactical guided missile actually turns into a long-range cruise missile. The mass exceeds 930 kg, and the range of application is approaching 120 km. In these versions, a small-sized RDK-300 turbojet engine is mounted under the belly of the rockets. The regular rocket engine is removed, and additional explosives are placed in its place - as a result, up to 320 kg. This is already quite comparable with the mass of warheads of Caliber cruise missiles. There is no question of any guidance of the Gadfly within the line of sight - most often the weapon is used in the conditions of the enemy’s air defense, and the carrier is forced to be at a low altitude.

By the way, typical conditions in the depths of the Ukrainian defense. The launch of the rocket is carried out either in autonomous mode, when the target coordinates are known in advance, or in autonomous navigation mode, when the operator searches for the target through the Tekon-1 telecommand system. Like all systems with television guidance, "Gadfly" requires good weather and the absence of smoke. In the case of working at predetermined coordinates, the Kh-59 is equipped with a satellite guidance system, which practically translates the product into the class of cruise missiles.

Why Russian Su-35s terrify opponents and reign in the sky
Alexander Khokhlov
04 May 23:49

The latest sea and air-based cruise missiles, attack aircraft and helicopters, modern tanks and infantry fighting vehicles - during the second stage of the special military operation in Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces demonstrate the superiority of their military equipment in all respects. Vechernyaya Moskva tells about the best examples of weapons and special equipment that are now influencing the course and outcome of hostilities to liberate Donbass.

Dominance in the Ukrainian skies is ensured by our multifunctional Su-35S fighters.

The first Russian pilot to earn the title of Hero of Russia during the special operation was Major Viktor Dudin. During a combat patrol, he discovered a Su-27 fighter of the Ukrainian armed forces and destroyed it on the first run. Two days later, the fighter pilot was tasked with destroying the enemy Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system.

Major Dudin at an extremely low altitude of 400 meters entered the area of ​​​​operation of the enemy’s air defense system, and as soon as the Ukrainian air defense system, turning on the radar, “opened up”, instantly destroyed it with the very first missile. He made an anti-aircraft maneuver and took his plane out of the zone of destruction of other air defense systems. Soon the combat account of the Russian pilot was replenished with three more Ukrainian Su-27 fighters shot down in air battles.

The unique capabilities of his Su-35S helped the major achieve combat success.

The 4++ generation multirole supermaneuverable fighter is designed to destroy almost any target. It works equally well in both close and long-range air combat.

It is capable of climbing to great heights, reaching great speeds and at the same time carrying a powerful payload - a whole range of missile and bomb weapons. Modern radar and optoelectronic systems for detecting and guiding weapons make it possible to destroy the enemy at the maximum ranges of the Su-35S. The multifunctional Sukhois received their baptism of fire during the operation in Syria. The nature of hostilities in Ukraine is incomparably more difficult, but for the pilots of the Russian Su-35S this task can be solved.

Armed and very dangerous

The modern tactical aviation aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces is capable of destroying a wide range of targets. The Su-35S armament range includes air-to-air, air-to-surface, air-to-radar and air-to-ship munitions; the fighter is capable of working on different objects in one flight. For example, according to data from open sources, Kh-31P high-speed anti-radar missiles are used to destroy enemy radars.

The weight of the high-explosive fragmentation warhead of such ammunition is 87 kg, and they fly at a distance of up to 110 km. The search for a target is carried out either by the aircraft's equipment, or by the radar homing head of the Kh-31P itself. Such a rocket cannot miss.

To destroy ground targets, the Kh-38MLE and Kh-29ML missiles with laser, as well as Kh-29TE with television homing heads, are placed on the hangers of the aircraft.

The Su-35S is also capable of carrying eight KAB-500Kr and KAB 500OD TV-guided half-ton guided bombs to the front line. He can destroy protected targets with KAB-1500KR TV and KAB-1500LG guided bombs. They weigh 1500 kg each.

The main task of the fighter is to gain air supremacy. To destroy air targets, it also uses medium-range air-to-air guided missiles R-77.

Indestructible

The Su-35S has a high survivability in combat. This is ensured thanks to the latest set of electronic countermeasures, as well as the possibility of low-altitude aircraft flight. The pilot of this fighter cannot be taken by surprise. The situational awareness of the pilot is achieved through optoelectronic and electronic intelligence systems.

Specifications Su-35S

   Take-off weight of the aircraft: up to 34.5 tons
   Combat load weight: up to 8 tons
   Number of ammunition hardpoints: 12
   Flight range without refueling: up to 3600 km
   Speed: up to 2500 km/h
   High ceiling: 20 km
   Air target detection range: up to 350 km

DIRECT SPEECH

Viktor Sokirko, reserve major, military expert:

- Among the serial aircraft in service with the Russian Aerospace Forces, the Su-35S has no rivals. He has a long range. The advantages of this aircraft, in addition to high armament, are perfect means of target detection, supersonic speed, reduced radar visibility, combat survivability and a multi-channel electronic warfare system. Su-35S are capable of working smoothly in the sky as part of a group of up to 16 aircraft.

PhSt wrote:When is Kharkov going to be liberated?

d_taddei2 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:This argument about the Mosin-Nagant is academic

They were literally dished out to hastily mobilized school teachers and such

These aren't trained marksmen. They're civilians who at the most might have a little experience from the first war 8 years prior but would be pretty out of practice by now. More likely though, they're just ordinary civilians.
I mean I'm sure these rifles are used in defense of buildings, with attempts at all sorts of interesting tactics. But for people with that level of expertise, they'll be better off with AKs, and defend or advance the good old fashioned way - by attaining firepower superiority. Rain enough fire onto the advancing enemy and he won't be able to get closer. Rain enough fire onto an enemy in defense and you'll pin him and then you can get closer. That's why assault rifles are versatile and noob-friendly.

To hit even a target 300m away consistently with any sort of weapon, you need a lot of time spent at the range already. And BTW any AK apart from the most abysmal Bulgarian copy is perfectly accurate enough up to at least that range.
If we're talking about ranges beyond 300m, then any weapon that maintains accuracy to 400-800m is fabulous, but useless for most people. You'll need a scope on the rifle, that you'll need the training, nerves and so on to be able to use effectively, you'll need to know how to keep the scope zero'd, and so on and so on. Not that I even saw scopes on those rifles.

What a bolt-action rifle is good for as well though, is to teach the fundamentals of shooting. So I guess, it might be an interesting way to get the mobilized reserves through a baptism of fire. So long as you don't stick them anywhere too hairy. And then better issue them with AKs afterwards, unless they prove to be fantastic shots.

Have you served? Iron sights can still get u hitting targets 600m even 800m if your good. Previous pics of troops armed with such looked far more professional than the ones in the video. And giving AK to noobs as u put isn't always a good thing, then then to be more trigger happy blasting off rounds wasting ammo, a bolt action reduces the tendancy to blast off as many and makes them more likely to actually aim when they fire. It's why here in UK cadet rifles were always bolt action or require a cock for every round to install a disciplined shot, I was a cadet for year before joining the army.

And as u said needing a scope needs training especially on the SVD hence a SVD hasn't been issued to then despite Russia having truck loads of SVD. And as previously stated the power of the mosin verses the AK. The AK is good for patrolling a d attacking but defending building in a built up area the mosin is rather more useful. I really wish people here had FIBUA training maybe they would understand that tactics are completely different and not based on call of duty or some film they have watched. Various weapons are used and a completely different ratio compared to fighting in the field. I spent a whole year training in FIBUA, majority of the time troops got 2 weeks.