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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Sat May 14, 2022 7:23 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:https://t.me/voenkorKotenok/36308

    As long as these channels are influencing public opinion it will be a problem for leadership

    1000 likes

    Again most won't care because of the professional army

    But the view of army people themselves like Razvedos and Kotenok will spread in the ranks

    Yeah I can see the Ukrainization of the situation

    This post is making all sorts of assumptions about what is and what isn't being done in Russian command and military leadership, and then talks about how our forces are adapting chiefly thanks to material help from civil society in the form of drones and so on (!!!)

    There was another post I saw that talked about our massive losses on the river crossing and about how all these heroes need our support etc (!!!!!)

    And all over the sake of this 'river crossing', that to date, has not even been successfully geolocated.

    Very worrying Ukro language here. I'm worried they've infiltrated us clown

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    andalusia


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    Post  andalusia Sat May 14, 2022 7:24 pm

    Mir wrote:I did mention some time ago that the Ukrs will actually see very little of the gazillions of USD aid stuffed in coffins but here is much more realistic and more elaborate explanation from The Saker Blog >>  Laughing

    https://thesaker.is/50-billion-in-lend-and-lease-or-why-the-us-is-doomed/

    ‘US aid’ is an oxymoron. It comes as a loan with interest, and can only be spent on US systems with a small amount reserved for bribing various foreign officials. Reference Tony Perkins ‘Confessions of an Economic Hit Man’.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 14, 2022 7:27 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:By talking openly about losses or mistakes made, you show accountability of the people that made those mistakes to your own population. If this is not shown, population will start to look for other sources of information and automatically, become more susceptible to your enemies propaganda.
    @sepheronx
    With all due respect me and you are not Russians, neither we live in Russia. We can have different views, but it's not our family and friends that are dying in Ukraine.
    Making parallels with Navalny's videos is completely misplaced.

    It isn't. And I have family on both sides of the fence right now in Russia and Ukraine.  I myself don't have a dog in this fight but my blood relatives do.

    I will agree with smoothix12 in saying that telegram channel's doesn't actually mean reality.  A lot of lies being spread and Russians picking it up for their own benefits, either good or bad.

    What is misplaced though is assuming likes and dislikes on an open chat where worldwide people can read and respond to, isn't actually a telling of events or feelings. Polling numbers do to an extent.

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    Post  Hole Sat May 14, 2022 7:31 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:there are two ways ,to defeat people in a trench.. one is the russian way using artillery day and night firing 100 strikes to kill one enemy soldier , and the other way the ukrainian way using drones .. which one is more effective?  

    The 59th Motorized Brigade of Ukraine using drone-dropped munition to target troops in trenches

    With drones you can see in real time , second by second where you strike and how many soldiers
    are there and not have to wave hundreds of strikeks in an place that have no soldiers. notice how even cheap drones with unguided bombs can strike directly in trenches..   this is what is causing russia to lose so many soldiers..  russia need thousands of this cheap drones , they can damage the moral of soldiers even if you don't kill that many . but the idea of knowing the airspace is infested with drones
    above you that can see you clearly where you are,cause fear on anyone.

    Check this post by Hole >>
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t8786p850-russian-special-military-operation-in-ukraine-15

    Post 853

    There are dozens of videos out there showing russian drones guiding in artillery to hit trenches.

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat May 14, 2022 7:36 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:By talking openly about losses or mistakes made, you show accountability of the people that made those mistakes to your own population. If this is not shown, population will start to look for other sources of information and automatically, become more susceptible to your enemies propaganda.
    @sepheronx
    With all due respect me and you are not Russians, neither we live in Russia. We can have different views, but it's not our family and friends that are dying in Ukraine.
    Making parallels with Navalny's videos is completely misplaced.
    I will agree with smoothix12 in saying that telegram channel's doesn't actually mean reality.  A lot of lies being spread and Russians picking it up for their own benefits, either good or bad.
    I agree that some of these channels have agenda. Mostly they want bigger involvement and more troops on the ground. Ru MoD, however, doesn't help situation with the situation by constantly giving same reports along the line of "everything is going according to the plan". This war is fought in propaganda arena, as well, and Ru MoD is utterly archaic and not adequate in that field.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 14, 2022 7:40 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:By talking openly about losses or mistakes made, you show accountability of the people that made those mistakes to your own population. If this is not shown, population will start to look for other sources of information and automatically, become more susceptible to your enemies propaganda.
    @sepheronx
    With all due respect me and you are not Russians, neither we live in Russia. We can have different views, but it's not our family and friends that are dying in Ukraine.
    Making parallels with Navalny's videos is completely misplaced.
    I will agree with smoothix12 in saying that telegram channel's doesn't actually mean reality.  A lot of lies being spread and Russians picking it up for their own benefits, either good or bad.
    I agree that some of these channels have agenda. Mostly they want bigger involvement and more troops on the ground. Ru MoD, however, doesn't help situation with the situation by constantly giving same reports along the line of "everything is going according to the plan". This war is fought in propaganda arena, as well, and Ru MoD is utterly archaic and not adequate in that field.

    It's hard, I'm not sure how they can resolve it either because if they give too much information, it becomes a problem. As someone else said, the mod will respond when they feel it's best. Rest are assumptions.

    Will telling everything by the minute resolve anything? No. Add to that, it's people online that constantly come up with stories around everything, it becomes a whole task on its own to constantly try and pick apart all propaganda.

    The Ukrainians were caught lying hundreds of times and that was without the mods need to intervene in info

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    Post  Urluber Sat May 14, 2022 7:41 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Ironic really, Russia went in to stop this but only made Finland and Sweden Join, now it will have NATO forces along a much bigger border.

    Well to be fair, Finland was going to join soon enough anyways, all Ukraine did was speed things up.

    Sweden was the one who joined cause of the war.

    Now all we need is China joining CSTO and we got some videogame factions going.

    It's all due to what happened in the late 80's and during 90s. Russia at that time gave up the positions and influence it had built after 1945. The current liberation operation has little do with this. Mistakes were done already in the 90s.

    What is very disappointing though is IF (and most likely when) we see countries whose asses Russia has saved accepting new members to Nationalists Associated treaty organization. In theory the decision needs to be unanimous. I'm talking about countries like Greece and Bulgaria. Russia has helped them many times in history. And now they stab Russia in back.
    I guess it's a slim hope to see those countries returning a favor now and blocking those membership applications.

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    Post  Hole Sat May 14, 2022 7:45 pm

    I´m always laughing when reading statements like: "NATO is stronger then ever now!", "Finland and Sweden joining NATO means defeat for Putin!", "More troops on Russias border then before Putin´s demands!"

    The offer last December was made to keep peace. Pull back your military where it were in 1997. Neutrality for Ukraine. Lets talk about arms contron treaties and so on.
    This is off the table now. Russia doesn´t care anymore if there are more western troops at her borders or if Finland with his pathetic 26.000 soldiers joins NATO.
    Her hands are untied now. The dogs are unleashed, baby.

    In the next years Russia will field Tsirkon missiles on board every ship and sub that is capable of launching this sort of missiles + all Bastion complexes will get them, too.
    The follow-on to Iskander will receive Kaliber-M and Tsirkon missiles and a new quasi-ballistic missile with multiple stages.
    New hypersonic missiles for tactical and strategic aircraft will be fielded.
    S-500 and other air/missile/space defence systems will appear.

    These statements from the west remind me of a little kid whizzling in a dark cellar.

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Sat May 14, 2022 7:46 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:By talking openly about losses or mistakes made, you show accountability of the people that made those mistakes to your own population. If this is not shown, population will start to look for other sources of information and automatically, become more susceptible to your enemies propaganda.
    @sepheronx
    With all due respect me and you are not Russians, neither we live in Russia. We can have different views, but it's not our family and friends that are dying in Ukraine.
    Making parallels with Navalny's videos is completely misplaced.
    I will agree with smoothix12 in saying that telegram channel's doesn't actually mean reality.  A lot of lies being spread and Russians picking it up for their own benefits, either good or bad.
    I agree that some of these channels have agenda. Mostly they want bigger involvement and more troops on the ground. Ru MoD, however, doesn't help situation with the situation by constantly giving same reports along the line of "everything is going according to the plan". This war is fought in propaganda arena, as well, and Ru MoD is utterly archaic and not adequate in that field.

    It's hard, I'm not sure how they can resolve it either because if they give too much information, it becomes a problem.  As someone else said, the mod will respond when they feel it's best.  Rest are assumptions.

    Will telling everything by the minute resolve anything? No. Add to that, it's people online that constantly come up with stories around everything, it becomes a whole task on its own to constantly try and pick apart all propaganda.
    Not by the minute, of course. But, this story already have legs, it's been propagated by friendly channels, so you can't fully discount it as enemy propaganda and millions of people in Russia know about it. Some explanation would go far with population. Like a damage control.
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 14, 2022 7:51 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:By talking openly about losses or mistakes made, you show accountability of the people that made those mistakes to your own population. If this is not shown, population will start to look for other sources of information and automatically, become more susceptible to your enemies propaganda.
    @sepheronx
    With all due respect me and you are not Russians, neither we live in Russia. We can have different views, but it's not our family and friends that are dying in Ukraine.
    Making parallels with Navalny's videos is completely misplaced.
    I will agree with smoothix12 in saying that telegram channel's doesn't actually mean reality.  A lot of lies being spread and Russians picking it up for their own benefits, either good or bad.
    I agree that some of these channels have agenda. Mostly they want bigger involvement and more troops on the ground. Ru MoD, however, doesn't help situation with the situation by constantly giving same reports along the line of "everything is going according to the plan". This war is fought in propaganda arena, as well, and Ru MoD is utterly archaic and not adequate in that field.

    It's hard, I'm not sure how they can resolve it either because if they give too much information, it becomes a problem.  As someone else said, the mod will respond when they feel it's best.  Rest are assumptions.

    Will telling everything by the minute resolve anything? No. Add to that, it's people online that constantly come up with stories around everything, it becomes a whole task on its own to constantly try and pick apart all propaganda.
    Not by the minute, of course. But, this story already have legs, it's been propagated by friendly channels, so you can't fully discount it as enemy propaganda and millions of people in Russia know about it. Some explanation would go far with population. Like a damage control.

    Does millions in Russia know about it? Or is it that the ones who want to believe it already know it regardless what MoD says?

    I doubt those numbers as well.

    Already articles came out by OSINT groups saying it's a loaf of baloney while ukies and their propaganda are saying otherwise.

    I would wager the MoD doesn't care and will let the OSINT groups do their jobs as well

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sat May 14, 2022 8:06 pm

    It's fine, but this is not the Navalny liberast segment of the population

    It's the Z part of the population, we don't talk about strelkovs either or old Soviet generals who are generally against the modern leadership

    We are talking about the ppl supportive of Russia and Kremlin population

    It is these people who are now believing that the MOD and leadership is failing the guys at war

    The people themselves, as has been said by analysts, are generally apathetic anyway since it is not a conscript army , therefor there is less skin in the game

    The anger of the people is palpable but it is not 1980 afghan anger

    Or 1990 chechen anger

    Those were conscripts , this is 2022 professional contract army

    So the anger isn't as directed

    But there is a feeling that whereas the general part of Z supporters were pro Kremlin or pro Putin , or tolerated it for the sake of patriotism

    A bitter taste is settling in the mouths of those who are looking for a scapegoat

    These channels add fuel to the fire by directing the anger at the "MOD" who is failing guys

    You have real military men razvedos, Kotenok, and even Strelkov who is an asshole , but nonetheless fought - yeah guys like martyanov say, those are tactical guys not decision makers , well that's fine , but if the rank and file is unhappy, then things can be dangerous for leadership

    And those guys are getting together and talk with the army

    This started first with Kiev withdrawal,  then the moskva, then Kharkov, and then the bridge

    That was the pattern of events which led to a limit in how much the Kremlin could keep a lid on flow of information

    You can carry out military operations and keep it out of the eyes and ears of civilians, I mean, the economy is actually great so it hasn't affected people except the oligarchs and western liberast types - **** them anyway

    But to those who support Russia , they could listen to voices which are more dramatic or hardliners

    Is there much they can do? Maybe not, but 2024 is coming, yes Putin is widely popular but we will see how this anger is resolved

    As for severskiy donets , it's obvious now they destroyed the VSU
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    Post  Sujoy Sat May 14, 2022 8:27 pm

    US has already officially proclaimed that goal is not to defend ukraine but weaken and collapse Russia. There is no walking back from such words.

    Consequently, Putin has no option but to press for complete victory… else will just leave a Pakistan size problem (the problem Pakistan is for India) infact.

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    Post  pavi Sat May 14, 2022 8:35 pm

    Hole wrote:I´m always laughing when reading statements like: "NATO is stronger then ever now!", "Finland and Sweden joining NATO means defeat for Putin!", "More troops on Russias border then before Putin´s demands!"

    The offer last December was made to keep peace. Pull back your military where it were in 1997. Neutrality for Ukraine. Lets talk about arms contron treaties and so on.
    This is off the table now. Russia doesn´t care anymore if there are more western troops at her borders or if Finland with his pathetic 26.000 soldiers joins NATO.
    Her hands are untied now. The dogs are unleashed, baby.

    In the next years Russia will field Tsirkon missiles on board every ship and sub that is capable of launching this sort of missiles + all Bastion complexes will get them, too.
    The follow-on to Iskander will receive Kaliber-M and Tsirkon missiles and a new quasi-ballistic missile with multiple stages.
    New hypersonic missiles for tactical and strategic aircraft will be fielded.
    S-500 and other air/missile/space defence systems will appear.
    Actually Finland uses consciption army, and there is a lot morehan 26 000. War time strength is aroud 285000 plus old farts in reserve, including me. Our mobilization system is very efficient compared toany other who is using conscript soldiers.

    These statements from the west remind me of a little kid whizzling in a dark cellar.
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sat May 14, 2022 8:42 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 2 Img_2089

    MSTA S with wehrmacht cross

    This is from

    https://t.me/swodki/95659

    A supposedly pro russian channel

    They have posted pictures of tortured and executed Russian troops

    They are instigating a backlash in russian opinion

    It has begun already

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    Post  sepheronx Sat May 14, 2022 8:48 pm

    And you are doing a good job assisting their stupidity. I hope you are proud of yourself.

    Still won't do anything. But refrain from posting Ukrainian propaganda.

    Proclaiming to be a pro russian this or that is just lying on your part. I read through the threads and found you to be rather an annoying individual with no real contribution other than mood swings worst than a woman on menopause.

    And I know I'm not the only one who feels the same.

    Good luck and I would suggest seeking mental help because you need it very much. Please do it for your sake and not russias or someone else's.

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    Post  Stealthflanker Sat May 14, 2022 8:53 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:https://t.me/uvznews/2056

    The new t90M is being produced rapidly with good results in Ukraine, Uralvagonzavod is sending a new batch to our guys


    Good news.

    man Dylan Malyasov will not be happy.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat May 14, 2022 8:54 pm

    crod wrote: Head of uki intel predicts august to be turning point in the war with complete Russian loss including Donbas and Crimea by end of year. He further stated that Russia military power is a myth and doesn’t understand what Europe is worried about. Some pair on him.






    hmm interesting especially that  UK is not Europe and strange it understands whet Europe thinks.

    As for head of uk intel didn't they claim 2 months  ago that Russians are about to run out of missiles? Now the period is shifted by end of the year.

    As UK is very attached to the tradition, this cruel fate  and losing will become an yearly prophecy in uk intel reports. Year by year... in the meantime Putin congratulates leaders of Sinn Féin reunification with Ireland.



    Cheers mate

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sat May 14, 2022 8:59 pm

    sepheronx wrote:And you are doing a good job assisting their stupidity. I hope you are proud of yourself.

    Still won't do anything. But refrain from posting Ukrainian propaganda.

    Proclaiming to be a pro russian this or that is just lying on your part. I read through the threads and found you to be rather an annoying individual with no real contribution other than mood swings worst than a woman on menopause.

    And I know I'm not the only one who feels the same.

    Good luck and I would suggest seeking mental help because you need it very much.  Please do it for your sake and not russias or someone else's.

    In Russia we don't have those, only in your country are they confused about such things

    Are you yourself experiencing the so called gender disphoria? Or mental problem?

    In America there's a lot of that going around huh?

    Hahaha
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    Post  Scorpius Sat May 14, 2022 9:02 pm

    crod wrote: Head of uki intel predicts august to be turning point in the war with complete Russian loss including Donbas and Crimea by end of year. He further stated that Russia military power is a myth and doesn’t understand what Europe is worried about. Some pair on him.



    Well, this means that Ukraine no longer needs supplies of money and weapons from the West, and all the millions of refugees from Ukraine can return home without fear, right?
    Because if it's not, then these statements are bullshit.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sat May 14, 2022 9:06 pm

    We gave the north to the east to make it better in the east. But it moves very slowly and it even goes back in some places. Nothing happens towards Odessa.

    To give up the north thinks a serious mistake. Now nothing happens on the Odessa Front and it doesn't go better in the east.

    When is there any significant progress?

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Sat May 14, 2022 9:06 pm

    An interesting opinion of Scott Ritter

    ""There is no doubt that Ukrainians are pressed to the wall. And there is no doubt that $53 billion is a lot to help."

    It prolongs this conflict, but Russia is still winning. So says the American military expert, former intelligence officer Scott Ritter:

    "Russia continues to define what is happening as a special military operation. It is very important. Russia is not at war with Ukraine. If this were a war, it would be a completely different level of escalation."

    https://t.me/uvznews/2056

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    Post  Scorpius Sat May 14, 2022 9:09 pm

    PhSt wrote:
    Can someone explain to me why Russia is allowing Ukrop forces to occupy areas around Kharkov? I thought the plan was just to lure them out of the cities to make them vulnerable to artillery strikes? But why are they allowed to secure territories? NATzO propaganda media is making a lot of noise about this right now. Russia shouldn't give its enemies any means to celebrate attack

    Do you think Ukrainians are stupid Lemmings? Russian Russian army is trying to carry out active military operations outside the city blocks, does not mean that Ukrainians will run amicably after the retreating Russian troops directly under the blows of Russian artillery. As for any news that the Ukrainian army has taken control of something somewhere, the first thing to find out is whether it was a military victory during a fire clash, or whether Ukrainian troops entered an empty settlement after Russian troops left there?

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    VARGR198
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16  - Page 2 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #16

    Post  VARGR198 Sat May 14, 2022 9:12 pm

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    Scorpius
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    Post  Scorpius Sat May 14, 2022 9:14 pm

    The Russian Defense Ministry has published footage of the destruction of a pontoon ferry and a unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine that attempted to cross the Seversky Donets.

    During the reconnaissance and search operations of the motorized rifle unit of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the calculation of an unmanned aerial vehicle revealed a unit of the Armed Forces of the Armed Forces on infantry fighting vehicles that attempted to cross over a guided pontoon crossing.
    Russian motorized infantry corrected artillery fire on the guided crossing and armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, who were hiding in the forest, the ministry said.

    The pontoon ferry was completely destroyed and sank by artillery fire. Enemy armored vehicles with crews that managed to cross the pontoons during the battle were destroyed by fire from Russian gunners and crews of infantry fighting vehicles. Part of the armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was captured by Russian servicemen. Also on the opposite bank, armored vehicles and equipment of the pontoon-bridge unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were destroyed during an attempt to withdraw.
    https://t.me/c/1303734858/8041

    Yeah, the same Seversky Donets, during the crossing through which an entire BTG of Russian troops was allegedly destroyed.
    This news tells us that photos with broken equipment and sunken pontoon bridges can be not only Russian equipment.

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Sat May 14, 2022 9:15 pm

    Hole wrote:In the next years Russia will field Tsirkon missiles on board every ship and sub that is capable of launching this sort of missiles + all Bastion complexes will get them, too.
    The follow-on to Iskander will receive Kaliber-M and Tsirkon missiles and a new quasi-ballistic missile with multiple stages.
    New hypersonic missiles for tactical and strategic aircraft will be fielded.
    S-500 and other air/missile/space defence systems will appear.

    Exactly, this is what "technical-military measures" mean, among others. They are in a self declared moratorium to deploying post INF missiles in Russia. They are not setting fire to the very long and overstretched borders of the empire, or bringing down their chihuahua regimes all around the world, either, but they can start striking all those pain points, if NATO wants to play Barbarossa. And there are many potential allies waiting for the right moment to settle scores with colonialists too.

    sujoi wrote:
    US has already officially proclaimed that goal is not to defend ukraine but weaken and collapse Russia. There is no walking back from such words.

    Consequently, Putin has no option but to press for complete victory… else will just leave a Pakistan size problem (the problem Pakistan is for India) infact.

    Very true, the West is a one-trick poney. As with Pakistan, and as proven by the epic prank from Lexus & Vovan, the West would gladly help with the nuclear arming of Ukraine. This is what some people do not understand, that losing x tanks or soldiers in the SMO for Russia is secondary, given what is at stake. The operation was not initiated on a whim, but as part of an existential battle for the survival of the country and their people and culture.


    Last edited by LMFS on Sat May 14, 2022 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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