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    Mi-28N Havoc: News

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    calripson
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    Mi 28 Deliveries

    Post  calripson on Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:33 am

    How many Mi28 delivered in 2013 and to where ?

    Viktor
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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Viktor on Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:51 pm

    I was hoping to see it sooner but than again it will be substantially different machine and for that you need time. 

    Tests of a new Mi-28nm can begin within three years

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Viktor on Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:47 am

    Russain army received 10 Mi-28 and MI-35 - nice  cheers 


    WEST received another batch of "Night Hunter" and Mi-35

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    Mi 28 and Mi 35

    Post  calripson on Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:21 pm

    Any breakdown of how many Mi 28 and how many Mi 35 in 2013 ? Where are they stationed ? Do they use mixed units of Mi 28/Mi 35/ Ka 52 ? How do the Mi 8's play into it.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TR1 on Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:39 pm

    Only one base has received all 3 new attack helo types- the 393rd Aviation Base.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:22 pm

    Viktor wrote:Russain army received 10 Mi-28 and MI-35 - nice  cheers 


    WEST received another batch of "Night Hunter" and Mi-35


    And here is a video of the event:

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201312261018-h80s.htm

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Viktor on Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:34 am







    Mi-35



    The rest of the pictures

    LINK

    LINK


    Last edited by Viktor on Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  George1 on Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:55 am

    i think mi-28 order of 99 helos is reaching its completion

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:44 pm

    George1 wrote:i think mi-28 order of 99 helos is reaching its completion

    Order was for 97 (30+67), though I have read that supposedly a third order was already signed. And they intend for 40-60 training birds, and of course the Mi-28NM when it is available. Though that maybe the third contact...I would be surprised if the total Night Hunter order is THAT big...it would mean in addition with Mi-35s (~50 birds) and Ka-52s (140+), the actual operational Mi-24 number is not only being replaced, but exceeded in the future.

    I guess Russia sees choppers as the main anti-tank weapon of the air.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:49 pm

    Kinda puzzling as I'd imagine that in the anti-tank role; MBTs, AT missile-vehicles, close air support aircraft, multirole fighters, etc... would be rather more survivable than attack helos, albeit less flexible and seeing a lot fewer targets.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Werewolf on Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:05 am

    Attack Helicopters are the ultimate multipurpose warmachine on the battlefield, they can destroy vast majority of targets on the ground from soft targets to tanks and even in future high effectivley even SHORADS with extended ranged weapons such as Hermes-A or via airborne droppable drones which were rumored to be equipped with 1-2kg warhead and performe dive attacks.

    Much cheaper and more effective than actual air strikes by jets, can loiter on the battlefield and more effecient showing precense, close air support, CSAR missions or "stealth" operations performed via NoE flights.

    The future belongs to Attack helicopters.

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    Has Not Been the Experience of US or Israelis

    Post  calripson on Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:44 am

    Apaches were restricted during the attack on Serbia because of the fear of low level Manpads. In Iraq, a flight of Apaches was seriously damaged by ground fire and that was pretty much that for the use of attack helicopters in a major role. Israel has had similar experience. Not to mention the propaganda value in Afghanistan of Stingers blowing Soviet helicopters out of the sky. In Viet Nam, the US lost 5000 helicopters. Helicopters are invariably slow and much easier to target than jets. The fast movers do the hard work and the helicopters only can come in when the enemy doesn't have significant air defense capabilities.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:29 am

    Werewolf wrote:Attack Helicopters are the ultimate multipurpose warmachine on the battlefield, they can destroy vast majority of targets on the ground from soft targets to tanks and even in future high effectivley even SHORADS with extended ranged weapons such as Hermes-A or via airborne droppable drones which were rumored to be equipped with 1-2kg warhead and performe dive attacks.

    Much cheaper and more effective than actual air strikes by jets, can loiter on the battlefield and more effecient showing precense, close air support, CSAR missions or "stealth" operations performed via NoE flights.

    The future belongs to Attack helicopters.
    not this again, even mig-21 can down attack helos at will. in coinops the enemy would just hide and pop out with a manpad or hmgs or aks or not show up at all. they cant loiter for too long at all unlike ground forces that can stay indefinitely as long as supplies are delivered. Plus, they are expensive to maintain and moreso when they drop to the sky.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:54 am

    The use of helicopters requires common sense and proper planning, but new sensors and systems and defensive suites should allow them to operate on a modern battlefield and be effective.

    They wont be invincible, but they will be very effective... their main bane is MANPADS and DIRCMS should aleviate that issue, and the Russian helos are rather better equipped against small arms fire than any other helo made today.

    Soviet experience in Afghanistan is not really relevant as their helos were not fully night capable and were vulnerable to IR guided missiles.

    I guess Russia sees choppers as the main anti-tank weapon of the air.

    AFAIK the Mi-28Ns will be upgraded to Mi-28NM level too.

    With net centricity an attack helicopter is both an attack asset and a data collection asset... very useful in both roles.


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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TR1 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:35 pm

    calripson wrote:Apaches were restricted during the attack on Serbia because of the fear of low level Manpads. In Iraq, a flight of Apaches was seriously damaged by ground fire and that was pretty much that for the use of attack helicopters in a major role. Israel has had similar experience. Not to mention the propaganda value in Afghanistan of Stingers blowing Soviet helicopters out of the sky. In Viet Nam, the US lost 5000 helicopters. Helicopters are invariably slow and much easier to target than jets. The fast movers do the hard work and the helicopters only can come in when the enemy doesn't have significant air defense capabilities.

    By the same ticket, any large modern IADS and the fast movers will be eating dirt in a scrap pile themselves.

    The USSR did use the Mi-24 as its primary anti-tank airframe, and deployed them in massive numbers in the West.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:06 pm

    attack helos are good, however if ther are systems like Tor and Pantsir around they will have a very hard time surviving, let alone completing missions. Not only that, even IFVs and MBTs(though at least mostly rus systems) are joining in the fun that is helo-swatting. So in short, attack helos take backseat in conventional war though in coin they are the star(neat sensors and mandpad small arms resistant).

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  medo on Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:01 pm

    collegeboy16 wrote:attack helos are good, however if ther are systems like Tor and Pantsir around they will have a very hard time surviving, let alone completing missions. Not only that, even IFVs and MBTs(though at least mostly rus systems) are joining in the fun that is helo-swatting. So in short, attack helos take backseat in conventional war though in coin they are the star(neat sensors and mandpad small arms resistant).

    Tors and Pantsirs will not be in the same line as tanks, but some kilometers behind, so helicopters could act from safe range with very long range ATGMs like Hermes. BMPTs will be in the first line too and with that more free to fight with attack helicopters, but they also need longer range missile like Kornet-EM instead of Ataka or MANPAD.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:38 am

    Apaches weren't restricted in Serbia, 7 were lost and some of them crashed on Serbian soil, equipment and parts of Apaches are today in Museum.



    F-117 part of airframe and gsuite of F-16 pilot



    Apache shot down over serbia and crashed in albania.

    US denied every loss that wasn't downed and crashed on Serbian soil, which afterwards everyone knew.
    The entire air strike campaign was a disaster for NATO, dozens of aircrafts lost and NATO claimed to have destroyed over 30 jets of serbians on ground, which majority were just dummies just like this MiG-29 dummy and tank dummies.


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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Flyboy77 on Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:50 am

    I was reading the Russian Air Force 2025 article in Combat Aircraft mag and they made mention that the Mi-28NM and Ka-52M will be armed with a new multi-function missile called the LMUR.

    Does anyone have any information of this missile?

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:24 am

    medo wrote:
    Tors and Pantsirs will not be in the same line as tanks, but some kilometers behind, so helicopters could act from safe range with very long range ATGMs like Hermes. BMPTs will be in the first line too and with that more free to fight with attack helicopters, but they also need longer range missile like Kornet-EM instead of Ataka or MANPAD.
    Well when they have the same protection as tanks they can be much closer to the action. Besides that they can always shoot hermes missiles, not like a mi-28/ka-52 can carry more than 16 of these heavy mofos. Also with future nakidka stuff tanks cant be seen from 20km away, most prolly helos will find themselves in tanks thermals esp. Since tank thermals are now Qwip.
    hmm,

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Werewolf on Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:24 pm

    Flyboy77 wrote:I was reading the Russian Air Force 2025 article in Combat Aircraft mag and they made mention that the Mi-28NM and Ka-52M will be armed with a new multi-function missile called the LMUR.

    Does anyone have any information of this missile?

    I've never heared of LMUR and couldn't find anything that is called LMUR Missile.

    Do you have any information about it that you could link?

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:07 am

    I was reading the Russian Air Force 2025 article in Combat Aircraft mag and they made mention that the Mi-28NM and Ka-52M will be armed with a new multi-function missile called the LMUR.

    Does anyone have any information of this missile?

    The new multifunction missile for Mi-28NM and Ka-52M is Hermes.

    Other weapons they might be talking about are air launched Krisantema, or possibly the Ugroza guidance kits for unguided rocket pod weapons like 80mm and 122mm rockets (S-8 and S-130)


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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Flyboy77 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:21 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    Flyboy77 wrote:I was reading the Russian Air Force 2025 article in Combat Aircraft mag and they made mention that the Mi-28NM and Ka-52M will be armed with a new multi-function missile called the LMUR.

    Does anyone have any information of this missile?

    I've never heared of LMUR and couldn't find anything that is called LMUR Missile.

    Do you have any information about it  that you could link?

    Russian Airforce 2025

    RuAF-1 https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/15/54/62/79/00110.jpg
    RuAF-2 https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/15/54/62/79/00210.jpg
    RuAF-3 https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/15/54/62/79/00310.jpg
    RuAF-4 https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/15/54/62/79/00410.jpg
    RuAF-5 https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/15/54/62/79/00510.jpg
    RuAF-6 https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/15/54/62/79/00610.jpg

    It's in part 6 at the top of the page.


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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Werewolf on Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:06 pm

    Lightweight Multi-Purpose Guided Missile, meaning it has a warhead like Vikhr meaning Tandem shaped charge and followed by HE-Frag charge with proxy fuze and contact fuze but the "lightweight" does that mean lighter than ATAKA,Shturm and Vikhr with 33.5kg - 49kg without and with container, means leighter than 35kg with container?

    I don't think they mean Ugroza program or any unguided rocket with corrective guidance suite.
    Is there any known lightweight ATGM that is possibly already known or used on other plattforms and will become a costeffecient lighter version of Ataka/Vikhr missile like a heliborne Kornet ?

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:19 am

    Kornet-EM is 33.5kgs.

    It is only a beam rider AFAIK however.

    Plus there are two models... one with a shaped charge warhead and one with a HE warhead with proximity fuse...

    I would have thought the Krisantema would be a better missile to base such a missile on as it can use laser beam riding or SARH guidance...


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