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    PAK-DA: News

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    PAK-DA: News

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:40 am

    Russia to develop new strategic bomber by 2017

    RIA Novosti

    23/12/200920:26

    MOSCOW, December 23 (RIA Novosti) - A new-generation Tu strategic bomber will be developed by 2017, Russian aircraft maker Tupolev said on Wednesday.

    Company President Alexander Bobryshev told Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin the research on the new aircraft project should be completed by 2012, while production-line assembly should start in 2020 to 2025.

    However, Maj. Gen. Anatoly Zhikharev, commander of Russia's strategic aviation said on Tuesday a new strategic bomber, which will use stealth technology, is expected to enter service in 2025-2030

    He said the stealth technology will make "the new aircraft difficult to detect by radar, although it is impossible to make airplanes of this type completely invisible."

    The new bomber will replace the Tu-95MC Bear and Tu-160 Blackjack strategic bombers, and Tu-22M3 Backfire long-range bombers currently in service with Russia's strategic aviation.

    According to various sources, in addition to 16 Tu-160 bombers, the Russian Air Force currently has 40 Tu-95MS bombers and 141 Tu-22M3 bombers in service.

    These aircraft will form the backbone of the Russian strategic aviation in the next decade following extensive modernization.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2009/russia-091223-rianovosti01.htm


    Last edited by Russian Patriot on Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:55 pm

    Any technical details? Probably hyper sonic and upgrade of project TU-2000...


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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Hitman on Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:00 pm

    finally a new bomber program. It`s the so called PAK DA right?
    I thought bomber development was over long time ago. For what I know PAF DA will be based on the Tu 160 design. Below it a possible image of how the PAK DA is going to look like:

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:35 pm

    when will they upgrade TU-2000 design Sad


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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:21 pm

    Hitman wrote:finally a new bomber program. It`s the so called PAK DA right?
    I thought bomber development was over long time ago. For what I know PAF DA will be based on the Tu 160 design. Below it a possible image of how the PAK DA is going to look like:


    No , Hitman this is not PAK since PAK is a fighter not a bomber. (Check PAK Topic for coverage of today's launch)

    Milk Candy Sugar: I do not know yet...

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Hitman on Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:45 pm

    Russian Patriot wrote:
    Hitman wrote:finally a new bomber program. It`s the so called PAK DA right?
    I thought bomber development was over long time ago. For what I know PAF DA will be based on the Tu 160 design. Below it a possible image of how the PAK DA is going to look like:


    No , Hitman this is not PAK since PAK is a fighter not a bomber. (Check PAK Topic for coverage of today's launch)

    Milk Candy Sugar: I do not know yet...

    I know about that. However I san`t talking about the PAK FA, but the PAK DA wich is a strategic bomber program
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:46 pm

    ah, your more informed than me. Apology

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Hitman on Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:36 pm

    Russian Patriot wrote:ah, your more informed than me. Apology

    nevermind Cool Cool
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  milky_candy_sugar on Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:32 pm

    According to Wikipedia that new strategic bomber will be the update of TU-2000...they re launch the project with some modifications
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-2000


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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:26 am

    milky_candy_sugar wrote:According to Wikipedia that new strategic bomber will be the update of TU-2000...they re launch the project with some modifications
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-2000

    wow... that's really something ....
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    Russia’s Military Posture

    Post  oleg nik on Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:50 am

    Never mind ,look at Russia’s Military Posture,hope in Obama
    The decline of the Russian military during the 1990s was regarded as a natural consequence of the fall of the Soviet Union, a crippled Russian economy and a political leadership searching for identity. Many of Russia’s military assets were allowed to fall into disrepair; while the modernisation of capabilities, or attempts at reform, were minimal. Of what military industry remained in Russia, inefficiency and corruption were rife and it suffered from over-capacity and a lack of R&D investment in advanced weapons systems. Russia has subsequently not relied upon its industrial base to design or mass manufacture much modern, technologically advanced equipment for nearly 20 years.
    The election of Vladimir Putin as President in 2000 precipitated a fundamental shift in Russian society, its politics, its economy and ultimately within its military. Putin once lamented that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical disaster in history and subsequently under his leadership Russia has once more sought to carve out its place in the world. There has been a revival of national self confidence and a renewed belief in Russia’s right to be a great power, the military being the ultimate symbol of that status, and those traits look certain to continue under the leadership of President Dmitry Medvedev.
    Current Russian military doctrine is predicated upon a document published in 2000 alongside the new Foreign Policy Concept and National Security Concept of the Putin administration. That doctrine acknowledged that while the threat of direct military aggression against the Russian Federation had declined, both external and internal threats to security had continued to persist, and in some areas were increasing. The doctrine advocated, therefore, what was essentially regarded as a defensive military strategy with a strong emphasis upon “adherence to peace”, albeit with a “firm resolve to defend national interests and guarantee the military security of the Russian Federation and its allies” which it identified as “the most important area of the state’s activity”. Maintaining Russia’s status as a nuclear power in order to deter aggression was subsequently outlined as one of Russia’s key military priorities.
    Various attempts to revise that document have been established over the last nine years, although no formal revision has emerged. However, the new doctrine has been considered likely to adopt a much harsher tone toward the US and NATO, reflecting Russia’s concerns over the Alliance’s expansion into “post-Soviet space”; and advocate the pursuit of military modernisation at any economic cost. Current indications from the Russian government suggest that a revised version of the Military Doctrine will be published toward the end of 2009.
    In the meantime observers have commented on the more confident and assertive tone adopted by Russia in its foreign policies over the last few years. Western observers have pointed to the Russian military response to Georgian actions in South Ossetia in August 2008; the public spat between Russia and the West over NATO enlargement and the US missile defence proposals in Eastern Europe; the public overtures of co-operation and friendship to countries within the US’s traditional sphere of influence; and the resumption of strategic bomber patrols and the ‘blue water’ deployment of the Russian navy as evidence that that rhetoric has increasingly taken on a practical element, with the military becoming increasingly utilised as a diplomatic tool in the war of words between east and west.
    That increasingly overt military posture has, in part, been enabled by large real term increases in the Russian defence budget over the last few years, a rate of growth that has broadly matched the growth of the Russian economy as a whole and has been attributable to high oil and gas prices. Since 2001 the defence budget has accounted for 2.4% to 2.6% of GDP.
    Given the diversity of Russia’s strategic interests, its military forces are extensive and configured accordingly. Russia has over one million active personnel and 20 million personnel in reserve, a reflection of the importance of compulsory military service within Russian society. With respect to active personnel, the Russian military is currently the fifth largest in the world, exceeded only by China, the US, India and North Korea. However, if Russia’s reserve contingent is taken into account, Russia’s military becomes the largest. Yet, the majority of Russian military equipment are ageing, Soviet-era assets. Modern equipment accounts for only 10% of the military’s existing capabilities and as witnessed during the campaign in Georgia in August 2008 has left a number of strategic weaknesses in Russia’s overall capability. The perception that Russia relies heavily on its nuclear deterrent as a means of power projection and offsetting its conventional weaknesses has, therefore, been a longstanding preoccupation of analysts. Indeed the retention of a nuclear capability has been regarded as the sole reason to justify continuing to view Russia as a military superpower. Yet it has also been widely acknowledged that the small amount of advanced weaponry that the Russian military does possess is state-of-the-art technology and that within a regional context and against adversaries in its near abroad, Russia has both the capacity and technological edge to pose a significant threat.
    In order to meet Russia’s ambitious aims for its Armed Forces a programme of intensive military reform and modernisation has been undertaken over the last 15 years. Advanced significantly under the Putin administration, that reform effort has focused on the modernisation of military capabilities, the professionalisation of the Armed Forces, readiness, deployability and interoperability. In order to support that agenda, the Putin administration has also pushed for reform and consolidation within the military-industrial complex.
    At the end of 2008 proposals for the next phase of military reform and re-armament were announced which amount to an ambitious and large scale overhaul of the structure and composition of the military in order to establish more efficient and combat ready forces, including the loss of 200,000 officer positions from across the military. As part of that programme the Russian government has indicated its intention to spend approximately 5 trillion roubles (US$190bn) on a weapons modernisation programme that would replace 45% of its entire arsenal. Although the plans are wide ranging Russia’s nuclear and ballistic missile programme and naval capabilities are set to be the biggest beneficiaries. The objective is to achieve a level of advanced weaponry equating to 30% of Russia’s total military assets by 2015 and 70% by 2020.
    However, the programme of structural reform has already met with significant opposition, largely from within the military itself. A number of senior military figures have resigned over the proposals, while others have argued that the recommendations as currently proposed will destroy Russia’s military capabilities and have called for the Russian Defence Minister to be sacked and prosecuted. One of the bigger questions is whether Russia is capable of affording both a comprehensive programme of capabilities modernisation and massive structural reform of the Armed Forces, given the current global economic situation. On 12
    February 2009 the Russian Government announced that a 15% cut in the military budget for 2009 would be made in response to the financial crisis Further cuts have not yet been ruled out with some analysts considering that up to 30-40% of the defence budget could be cut in the next few years. The ability of the military-industrial complex in Russia to match the technological demands of the modernisation programme has also been questioned.
    As a result of these diverging pressures many analysts have concurred that reform, however ambitious initially, is likely to be watered down and any changes that do come will occur only gradually. Compromise between the differing strands of reform is also a possibility with issues such as the improvement of terms and conditions of service personnel potentially taking a back seat to greater perceived priorities such as capabilities modernisation.
    The prospects for the Russian military, and the ability of the Kremlin to continue using it in pursuit of its foreign policy agenda, arguably depends upon the success of the modernisation agenda and specifically Russia’s rearmament programme. These in turn rely heavily upon a Russian economy that is largely resource dependent and therefore affected by rises or falls in global energy prices, and on the attitude of the military establishment with respect to reform and whether the Russian government will retain the political will to push through some unpopular proposals or yield to domestic pressure to either abandon them or make compromises as a means of securing the continued support of the military within the Kremlin.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:36 pm

    If the bomber is to be in production by 2017 I don't think it will be Tu-2000. We are a couple decades from a hypersonic bomber.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:44 am

    The Tupolev design bureau said they were starting the design now and that it would be a radically new design so I am expecting some form of very large flying wing with perhaps swing wing wing tips to allow efficient low speed cruise and high speed dash.

    A hypersonic strategic bomber makes no sense for Russia just as a super stealthy B-2 type doesn't make sense either.

    A Bear is a viable strategic bomber because by the time it gets to its launch position ICBM and SLBM warheads will already have obliterated the opposing air defences.
    Add to that the Bear is launching cruise missiles from 3,000 to 5,000km from its targets and you can see that its replacement doesn't need to be an incredibly expensive stealth aircraft (ie B-2) costing up to 4 billion each, or some expensive to buy and operate super fast hypersonic aircraft.
    Making its cruise missiles stealthier and faster makes rather more sense.

    Some stealth would be useful for theatre operations as a bomb truck for for its strategic role extreme stealth and hypersonic speed fail due to the law of diminished returns. (ie to get the Mig-25 to fly operationally at mach 2.4 for its entire mission might cost 1 billion dollars. To get it to fly at mach 3 for its entire mission will cost 10 billion dollars. Mach 3.5 might cost 100 billion. Mach 4 a trillion etc etc and the same with stealth but talking radar cross section.
    The problem with stealth is that if a ground crew member accidentally stands on the wing and damages the coating that multi billion dollar aircraft might completely lose its stealth.

    My favourite design would be the T-4MS, but it has already been rejected in favour of the Tu-160 design.

    The flying wing design offers the lowest drag and smallest optical and radar cross section.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:06 pm

    With the long range of our Kh-55s, we don't really need anything more than Tu-160. I would be happy with a stealthy Tu-160 with hypersonic missiles.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:11 am

    I agree, and the Kh-102s with 5,000km range make that argument even more convincing, but the Tu-160 is not cheap to operate.
    The Bear is much cheaper and the new aircraft shouldn't be so expensive that Russia can only afford 20 like with the B-2.

    Cheap to buy, cheap to operate, good enough for the job at hand.

    That suggests to me a flying wing (low drag, naturally low radar cross section, large potential internal capacity for fuel and weapons).

    Perhaps a supercruising flying wing with a mix of stealthy and hypersonic cruise missiles for different roles. Stealthy for strategic nuclear, and hypersonic for theatre bomber role because of active air defence networks in that role.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:06 am

    My PAKDA russia

    but well i called her "reiteria"

    done with Blender3D



    she's armed with 16 Kh-55SM class Missiles (includes Kh-555 and Kh-101) or up to 70 tons of munitions

    In my opinion the PAKDA will likely left the Swing Wing configuration in a favour of more advanced boundary layer control and advantages on today's more powerful and refined flight control.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:59 am

    Nice work, but what is that sticking out of the nose?

    I would expect most probes and sensors would be flush with the skin of the aircraft and any inflight refuelling probe would be fully retractible.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:Nice work, but what is that sticking out of the nose?

    I would expect most probes and sensors would be flush with the skin of the aircraft and any inflight refuelling probe would be fully retractible.

    just call it "early production model" mate Very Happy

    i can't really get rid of a "neat" feeling to see a refuelling probe sticking out like the one i saw on Tu-22M2 and Tu-95.. so i put one one my Reiteria
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:38 am

    The Tu-95 is subsonic and not stealthy so a fixed probe make sense, it is cheaper and there is less to fail if it is fixed.

    Perhaps you should have looked at the inflight refuelling probe on the Tu-160... Wink
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Stealthflanker on Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:56 am

    GarryB wrote:The Tu-95 is subsonic and not stealthy so a fixed probe make sense, it is cheaper and there is less to fail if it is fixed.

    Perhaps you should have looked at the inflight refuelling probe on the Tu-160... Wink

    I have seen that Probe many times ..in typical Aviation photos or in my Yefim Gordon's book

    it should be located ahead of cockpit , folded above the Obzor RADAR Radome

    thanks for your suggestion anyway..but it seems i'll stick to that Tu-22M/Tu-95 stle probes for a while Very Happy

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  brudawson on Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:41 pm

    This new bommer based on the technology of stealth technology. And is expected to enter service in 2025-2030. Stealth technology will make the new aircraft difficult to detect by radar, although it is impossible to make airplanes of this type completely invisible. The new bomber will replace the Tu-95MC Bear and Tu-160 Blackjack strategic bombers, and Tu-22M3 Backfire long-range bombers currently in service with Russia's strategic aviation.

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Austin on Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:08 am

    No new Russian strategic bomber until at least 2025

    It will take 15-20 years to develop an advanced aircraft system for strategic aviation and the new aircraft will be built in Kazan, head of the Unified Aircraft Corporation Alexei Fyodrov said.

    “Together with our main contractor, the Defense Ministry, we have started thinking of new models of strategic bombers, aircraft for strategic aviation. A lot of time will be spent on the development of fundamentally new aircraft, of course. This will take, probably, 15 years and maybe even 20,” he said at the Kazan air show.

    Fyodorov said that the aviation industry should be “starting now” in order to be prepared to produce the new aircraft in 15 years.

    “One should be thinking of the concept of the aircraft, choose the basic technologies and new components that will be employed in the aircraft,” Fyodorov said.

    He said that the new aircraft will be built at the Kazan Aircraft Production Association which previously produced the Tupolev Tu-160 strategic bombers.

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Austin on Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:12 pm

    I think the amount of time they are taking this is a design from scratch bomber , Certainly they would take the virtues of existing top of line bomber like the Tu-160 which offers decent payload , supersonic speed and long reach and build upon those strength.

    I think a flying wing offers the optimium bet in Range, Payload and Stealth .. but making them supersonic also makes them expensive.

    It is interesting that the US NGB focusses on B-2 type design albeit with better stealth and affordability although they still tend to remain subsonic.

    Wonder if Russia could break the subsonic barrier with a supersonic flying wing design and still make it affordable that is where the challenge lies.
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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:05 am

    We have seen 5th generation fighter jet engines, what we haven't seen yet is a 5th generation bomber engine. Imagine a 35 ton class fuel efficient jet engine developed from the engines used in the Tu-160, you could use two instead of 4 in a very low drag flying wing configuration that super cruises at mach 1.5-1.8 or so for very long ranges.
    Build it with lots of composite materials to greatly reduce the structure weight of the aircraft.
    Load it with an enormous capacity bomb area that allows huge loads to be carried medium ranges, and for strategic roles allow for lighter cruise missile payloads and fill the rest of the internal weapon bay space with extra fuel to become strategic.

    The need is not urgent, but a good solution could be used to replace the Tu-95, the Tu-142 (in the maritime patrol role), the Tu-22M3, the Tu-160, you could even extend the wing mounted radar antennas for 360 degree radar surveillance and use it as an AWACS aircraft as well. The enormous fuel load could have internal fuel storage and it could be used as an inflight refuelling aircraft as well.

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Austin on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:32 am

    Well I suppose they can use the new PAK-FA engine which is said to be in 18T class for the new Bomber , there is no point in developing a new engine for the bomber.

    What they need to do is to develop a good engine "Variable Cycle Engine" that works efficiently in all flying conditions ( subsonic, transonic and supersonic ) with a growth potential of 20 to 30 %.

    They can use 4 of this engine to power the PAK-DA and a pair to power the PAK-DA, it will also help in streamlining the logistics.

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