Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Share

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5995
    Points : 6397
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Location : India

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:25 am

    Interview with General Director of "Rostvertol" Boris Slusar.

    "Rostvertol": catch up and overtake "Apache"
    avatar
    Sujoy
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 906
    Points : 1072
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:42 am

    I would want to see Laser Guided Rockets incorporated in the Mi 28N .

    Laser Guided Rockets have the potential to replace 0.50 caliber machine guns and 500 pound bombs because these rockets will provide deep-magazine, standoff-precision weapons with low collateral damage .
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:05 am

    X2

    Ugroza....


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    AlfaT8
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1287
    Points : 1294
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:42 pm

    GarryB wrote:X2

    Ugroza....
    What?? scratch
    avatar
    Sujoy
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 906
    Points : 1072
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Sujoy on Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:37 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:X2
    Ugroza....
    What?? scratch

    Ugroza is a precision guided rocket designed by the Russian company Ametech .

    It is similar to BAE's Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (guided rockets) .
    avatar
    AlfaT8
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1287
    Points : 1294
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  AlfaT8 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:23 am

    Sujoy wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:X2
    Ugroza....
    What?? scratch

    Ugroza is a precision guided rocket designed by the Russian company Ametech .

    It is similar to BAE's Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (guided rockets) .
    So these guys (below) with some with upgrades

    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:47 am

    Ugroza is a family of guidance kits for Russian unguided rockets from 57mm, 80mm, 122mm, 240mm, and 266mm.

    The negative effect is increase cost per rocket, but the benefits include much fewer rockets need to be used to hit point targets, much cheaper than traditional guided weapons, increased safety for the launch platform as unguided rockets can be used from maximum range while still being effective, while there is no modification needed for the rocket pod or aircraft.

    57mm rockets are no longer widely used as their small payload is now considered to not be effective enough (800g HE warhead). The 80mm rockets with payloads of 6-12 kgs or so are much more effective and can be used against targets like armoured trucks and light IFVs.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3128
    Points : 3220
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  medo on Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:13 pm

    Are they laser guided in the way, that laser designator have to paint the target or like Kornet?
    avatar
    Sujoy
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 906
    Points : 1072
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Sujoy on Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:36 pm

    Targets will have to be illuminated first in case of laser guidance.

    Ugroza will use Laser guidance or optical guidance to guide the rockets to their targets.Rockets upgraded under Ugroza will sport the suffix "Kor".

    Ugroza also allows the rockets to be fired at their maximum kinematic range , while maintaining an accuracy of
    0.8 - 1.6m (CEP)
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:46 am

    The description of the guidance sounds a lot like the guidance of the Sokol-1 gun tube launched ATGM.

    It is described as being able to hit targets marked by lasers in semi active mode or moving targets and targets out in the open passively.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:41 am

    It should be kept in mind that rockets are traditionally used against area targets and their dispersion in flight actually improves their effectiveness rather than reduces it against many target types.

    The weapons used against point targets were guns and missiles, where the guns lacked range but were cheap and accurate enough to hit point targets, while missiles were expensive but had long range, and high penetration performance and excellent accuracy.

    Rockets would be used against a location rather than a specific target... often an area where enemy fire is coming from with a clutch of rockets would suppress, if not snub out.

    As optics and radar and other sensors improve however locating the precise targets mean more missiles and less rockets make sense, but missiles are expensive.

    Ugroza increases the cost per rocket, but against a range of target more than makes it worthwhile. The vast majority of vehicles on the battlefield are light vehicles like trucks that don't need 1m+ penetration warheads to defeat. In fact a decent 5-10kg warhead would be much more effective in dealing with such targets than HEAT warheads.

    Ugroza means that a pilot can load their aircraft with accurate long range weapons that are not enormously expensive yet can defeat light and unarmoured vehicles from safe standoff distances at a price that allows its use in enormous numbers.

    A good example is ground forces currently in Afghanistan using Javelin for destroying any point target they come across.

    The Ugroza is the equivalent of an RPG but with guidance to allow much longer range engagements than is possible with the unguided RPG.

    More importantly being able to detect laser target markers means that the helo can directly cooperate with ground forces where if they come under fire they can mark the threat themselves and call in the launch of a single rocket from max range. Most modern laser target markers work from 7-10km range and could even be mounted on a UAV in very dangerous areas.

    Most helos only carry about 8 guided missiles, but a Mi-28N could carry 16 Shturm or Ataka or Krisantema missiles on their outer weapon pylons and two 20 shot 80mm rocket pods on their inner wing pylons for a total of 56 guided air to ground weapons.

    That is a lot of trucks and pillboxes.

    I remember an article I read recently that talked about new model 80mm rockets with larger warheads and more powerful rocket motors that were terminally guided, but AFAIK Ugroza was designed for any and all Russian unguided rockets from the 57mm with 800 gram (0.8kg) warheads, through 80mm rockets with warheads from 4kg to about 8kg, the 122mm rockets with warhead weights of 21-40kg, and the 240mm calibre rockets with 50kgs of HE and of course the 266mm rockets with 150kgs of HE. The 57mm rockets came in a range of launchers with 16 and 32 rocket pods for fighter and helo use, while the 80mm rocket pods were 20 shot each. The 240mm rockets didn't use pods and were pylon launched, while the 266mm rockets were loaded into single round tubes for launch.

    Even without a HEAT warhead the 266mm rockets could kill a tank simply by shattering everything inside without penetrating the armour, and would be especially effective against bunkers and buildings.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    KomissarBojanchev
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1119
    Points : 1274
    Join date : 2012-08-05
    Age : 19
    Location : Varna, Bulgaria

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:24 am

    Is the 57mm S-5 popular among the frontline aviation or has it been completely replaced by the S-8? I've heard they were too weak for combat in Afghanistan. Were they effective in Chechnya or Ossetia?
    avatar
    medo
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3128
    Points : 3220
    Join date : 2010-10-24
    Location : Slovenia

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  medo on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:26 am

    It depend on combat situation. I think US did the same with their hydra rockets for AH-64 helicopters. When enemy doesn't have tanks or protection with SAMs, that there is no need to arm helicopter with ATGMs, which are expensive, but with more rocket launchers. Laser guided rockets give longer distance to max. range for rocket launching, what bring helicopter out of range from small arms fire and also enable to launch single rocket to a single target such as truck, bunker, etc, so it could engage more targets with one payload.
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:05 pm

    The 57mm is too small for modern targets and even with 32 rockets in each pod they were found to be cheap enough, but reducing in effectiveness. They were largely withdrawn from service in the late 1980s.

    In comparison the larger calibre 80mm rockets were and continue to be very effective. Note a similar change has occurred in mortars where 50mm calibre mortars popular before WWII have been replaced and even modern mortars the 120mm seems to be the most popular in Russian use.

    When the job is to kill enemy trucks then laser guided rockets means it is much cheap than having to resort to missiles, while of course closing with the target and using the gun would be cheap in terms of consumed ammo, the cost in helos lost would make it uneconomical.

    In comparison the use of one or two rockets per target means each pod of 20 could deal with 10 to 20 targets so with four pods carried that means between 40 and 80 targets... that would be a devastating blow to even a large force.

    Using one rocket per target means it would be cheaper than unguided rockets where 10-20 rockets might be used per target.

    The only situations where unguided rockets would be more useful would be against unseen targets and wide area targets, and of course in the use of Chaff and Flare decoy rockets and Flare illumination rockets.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    mack8
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 954
    Points : 1014
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  mack8 on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:01 pm

    First flight of Mi-28UB today, bort OP-1
    PS: Can't post links, please check the Russian Helicopters website.
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5735
    Points : 5775
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:51 pm

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/590313.html

    More news on UB.
    Disappointing it STILL doesn't have the full defensive suit.
    According to chief of VVS, Victor "Cooper" Bodarev, 40-60 birds will be bought by 2020.
    That is a lot more than I expected.
    avatar
    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3198
    Points : 3314
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:54 pm

    TR1 wrote:http://bmpd.livejournal.com/590313.html

    More news on UB.
    Disappointing it STILL doesn't have the full defensive suit.
    According to chief of VVS, Victor "Cooper" Bodarev, 40-60 birds will be bought by 2020.
    That is a lot more than I expected.
    Victor "Cooper" Bondarev - has a ring to it Very Happy 

    But I remember hearing a long time ago the total Mi-28 procurement would be somewhere in the ballpark of 130 or so.
    40-60 birds is hardly more than could be expected.
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5735
    Points : 5775
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:55 pm

    There have been 97 Mi-28s contracted so far, though it is safe to say that will increase especially with Mi-28NM.
    However when you consider they are all two seaters, the need for 40-60 conversion trainers for 100-150 attack helos seems excessive.
    They are dual role, so that is something. However I would think the MOD would be more focused on catching up with Kamov with a full defensive suit, not to mention radar and ATGMs.
    avatar
    mack8
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Lieutenant Colonel

    Posts : 954
    Points : 1014
    Join date : 2013-08-02

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  mack8 on Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:09 am

    Well, i guess they didn't thought the full defensive suit worth having on the UB. Probably it will come with the NM though.
    Btw, i was mistaken about UB's bort , it's red 37 (as known), the pics on the Russian Helicopters site show the first serial Mi-28N!
    avatar
    TheArmenian
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1642
    Points : 1803
    Join date : 2011-09-14

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:27 am

    Video of the the first flight of the trainer UB version:



    And some explanations on the VERTLET ROSSYi site:

    http://www.russianhelicopters.aero/ru/press/news/Mi-28UB_OP1/
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:36 am

    My understanding is that the M model will be ready for full production in 2015-2016 and will have several design improvements including everything fully operational.

    The Radar has already been tested and accepted so now missiles using the radar can be deployed.

    Unlike with the Ka-52, the radar is at the core of the Mi-28s self defence suite so when the M models are ready for production in 2016 or so then previous models will likely get upgrades to the M standard so they are fully operational too.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Flanky
    Sergeant
    Sergeant

    Posts : 183
    Points : 192
    Join date : 2011-05-02

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Flanky on Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:09 am

    Helmet mounted display and cueing system for the Mi-28 (GEO-ONV2)



    Another picture
    avatar
    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 16005
    Points : 16662
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:55 am







    Note the optics ball immediately above has various optical ports... top to bottom, left to right... top centre is the thermal imager for night and all weather vision, below that are two widely spaced digital TV cameras likely with low light capability that will most likely be used with the helmet mounted sight above. The view from this optics ball is totally unobstructed so projecting its view into the pilots optics means it is like his head is on the nose of the helo and he has a full unobstructed view from in front of the helo with no cockpit or instruments blocking his view... like computer games with the cockpit turned off.
    The last two optical ports are for the laser and laser receiver for laser ranging and laser target marking for laser guided and laser beam riding missiles.

    Note the above optic turret is from the Mi-28N.

    On the Ka-52 optics ball:



    Extreme close up... there are no stereo optics ports because this is the gunners optics turret, not the pilots.


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Viktor
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5673
    Points : 6324
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Viktor on Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:15 pm

    Its seems that Mi-28NM will be whole new beast. 


    Popov: Mi-28nm will be very different from the prototype
    avatar
    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5735
    Points : 5775
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TR1 on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:48 pm

    http://russianplanes.net/id126276

    Good photo, shows the cutout on the fuselage due to the expanded transparency of the gunner.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue May 23, 2017 9:02 am