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    Mi-28N Havoc: News

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    Vladimir79
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    Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:21 pm

    On the basis of "Night Hunter" will create a training helicopter gunship




    Moscow Helicopter Plant named after ML Mil will build a new training helicopter gunship based on the Mi-28N Night Hunter ", RIA Novosti reported with reference to the statement made by the executive director of the factory Michael Korotkevich. Development will fund the company Rosvertol, which decided not to wait for funding from the Ministry of Defense.

    New MI-28UB will be created within the project on modernization of the Mi-28N. In addition venture Rosvertol, part of the holding company "Helicopters of Russia" plans by 2015 to double production of "Night Hunter". Told CEO Boris Slusar. According to him, now annually creates only 8-10 of these helicopters. Rosvertol expects to raise production to 20 cars a year.

    Double attack helicopter Mi-28N is designed to destroy various ground, air and surface targets. In particular, it can be used against enemy personnel and armor. "Night Hunter" is equipped with a built-gun, 30 millimeters, two outboard guns caliber 23 millimeter, as well as guided and unguided missiles.

    The helicopter can reach speeds of over 300 kilometers per hour and fly a distance of 450 kilometers (more than 1000 kilometers in the ferry option). Mi-28N is equipped with an airborne radio-electronic equipment with which the helicopter can carry out flights at night in adverse weather conditions at extremely low altitudes.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2009/11/03/vertol/

    _______________________

    So if that is the production schedule it looks like 100 Mi-28N by 2015, 200 by 2020, and 300 by 2025.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:40 am

    Closest Thread to the topic of Mi-28 so here:


    Mi-28N Night Hunter: The main attack helicopter of the Russian Air Force

    http://en.rian.ru/infographics/20110217/162649795.html

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    Mi-28N Havoc

    Post  GarryB on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:15 am

    Well then, lets chat about the Havoc...

    I wonder if the Havoc will normally carry HERMES missiles operationally, or if it will carry an air launched version of Chrisantema. Certainly based on what has been released about the Mi-28M suggests that it will adopt the ground launched weapon as a standard missile.

    I should point out that the Chrisantema missile is MMW radar guided, but not like Hellfire or Brimstone. In many ways Hellfire and Brimstone are active radar homing missiles with their own MMW radar seekers so they are in practical terms fire and forget weapons like AMRAAM.
    Chrisantema on the other hand is more like a SARH missile like R-27 or SPARROW as it needs a radar equipped platform to mark the target from launch to impact. Now that is clearly not the same as ARH missiles and is certainly not fire and forget, however with a radar like that fitted to the Mi-28M it makes it possible that several targets could be illuminated at once for potential multi target capability. It also means that potentially the Chrisantema could be used against certain structures that are not distinct targets in MMW radar freqencies like bunkers etc because I would presume that the radar will be linked with the optical and IIR system so it could use a radar beam like a laser beam to mark targets to be hit that a standard MMW radar seeker in a missile could not lock on to. Of course even if it can't do that they can use the optical system to direct a low power laser at any target for the beam riding Chrisantema to fly down and hit.
    Remember also that if HERMES is carried it will use terminal homing too so the Havoc will have air to ground fire and forget capability.
    The secondary laser beam riding guidance capability also means that all versions of the system might not be fire and forget but can fire on two separate targets at once... though optical visibility is needed for the laser guided weapon it could be in the middle of a dust or snow storm for the radar guided missile and it wouldn't matter.
    The advantage of the Chrisanthema is that it will be much cheaper than HERMES and yet offer a flight range of 8kms and armour penetration figures of 1.25m of RHA and that it can be carried in large numbers like the ATAKA which it will replace.
    The Hermes has double the range, is more dual purpose with its near 30kg warhead, but will likely only fit 4 to a pylon so will be carried in half the numbers that Chrisantema could be carried in... which should match the similarly sized ATAKA with 8 per pylon.
    Those photos of the Ka-52 with pylons carrying 6 tubes for anti tank missiles might have been Chrisantema missiles being tested with the MMW radar fitted in the nose of the Ka-52. It would be a good cheap small missile for both aircraft and other helos in the fleet that have been upgraded with night optics like the Mi-8s.



    Well... DUH...
    Now that I look at this photo I have posted myself I can clearly see it says 9M120 on the tube which identifies it as an ATAKA missile.
    No doubt however even if they plan to replace the ATAKA in service with Chrisantema the stocks of ATAKA are probably quite large as most of the Hind force used them plus they were standard weapons for the Ka-29 assault helix and for use in quad packs on some suitably fitted Mi-8s... they would have been bought in large numbers because they were cheap yet accurate and able to be used at up to 6km against all sorts of point targets.
    Likely ATAKA will continue in production for export as Chrisantema will require a MMW radar which export Hinds were not fitted for. I guess soon we will see a new Hind upgrade able to use laser beam riding missiles so it can fire Chrisantema.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:59 am

    One of the criticisms levelled at the Mi-28N is that apart from wing tip pods it does not seem to have the normal self defence systems like IR and laser detectors.

    In recent photos small IR sensors have been added between the nose EO ball turret and the retractable lights mounted in the nose, but in the photos below of a gray Mi-28N intended for Indian trials for a new attack helo there is another sensor present above the new IR directional sensors that appear to be optical in nature and might be laser detection sensors.

    These pics are from MAKS2011 by Vitaly from this website:

    http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/383

    ...Was going to post the images here, but the image hosting feature doesn't seem to be working at the moment so go to the site above and scroll down to the Mi-28N photos and have a close look at the nice Gray Mi-28Ns and you will see some pictures. Note one picture has red covers over the new sensors in question while other shots they are uncovered and appear to have optical sensors which makes me suspect they are laser detectors.

    The laser warning stickers refer to the laser range finders in the EO ball and EO Drum under the nose BTW.




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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:24 am

    The Mi-28 also has the L-150 Pastel RWR

    Regarding Mi-28 numbers, according to A. Fomin in the latest Vzlet (Take Off) magazine, 40 Mi-28N have been handed over from the original contract for 67 helicopters. Apparently another 30 have been ordered and the current estimate is for 300 machines overall.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  ak74m on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:50 pm

    mi28n or the apache???

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:43 pm

    We're talking about the Mi-28

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:19 pm







    I am assuming the new sensor is a laser/optic detector for the President system...

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Russian Patriot on Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:51 am



    Russian Air Force gets six new attack helicopters



    A new batch of Mi-28N Night Hunter attack helicopters has been delivered to a pilot training center near Moscow, Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Vladimir Drik said on Wednesday.

    “The helicopters have been delivered to the Torzhok training center to improve the pilot training program there,” Drik said.

    The Mi-28N is the latest modification of the Mi-28 Havoc attack helicopter, manufactured by the Rostvertol plant in southern Russia. It has been designed to conduct hunter-killer missions against main battle tanks, helicopters, ground forces, and armor in any weather conditions.

    The deliveries of Mi-28Ns to the units in Russia’s North Caucasus and Central military districts started in 2009. A total of 24 Mi-28s were in service with the Russian Air Force as of February 2011.

    Two Mi-28Ns were lost in crashes during training flights in 2009 and 2011.

    Russia's Defense Ministry has said it is planning to procure between 45 and 67 Mi-28Ns in the next few years, and to fully replace the Mi-24 Hind helicopters with Mi-28Ns in the Armed Forces by 2015.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111012/167617281.html

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Serbia Forever 2 on Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:55 pm

    Bad news,

    Russian Mi-28N Night Hunter has lost a tender on the delivery of 22 attack helicopters to the Indian military in strong competition with the American AH-64D Apache, an Indian Defense Ministry source said on Tuesday.
    “We decided not to choose the Mi-28 for technical reasons. Our experts believe that the Mi-28N did not meet the requirements of the tender on 20 positions, while the Apache showed better performance,” the source said.
    The future contract, worth at least $600 million, envisions an optional delivery of additional 22 helicopters.
    Russia is still taking part in two other Indian helicopter tenders: on the delivery of 12 heavy transport helicopters and 197 light general-purpose helicopters.

    The first tender includes the Russian Mi-26T2 and the American CH-47F Chinook helicopters, while the second involves the Russian Ka-226T and the AS550 Fennec helicopter, developed by Eurocopter.
    Meanwhile, Russia continues the deliveries of Mi-17-B5 transport helicopters to India under a 2008 contract for the supply of 80 helicopters worth $1.4 billion.
    The Indian military helicopter market, with its potential demand for 700 helicopters in the next decade, fuels fierce competition among foreign manufacturers.

    http://en.rian.ru/world/20111025/168096811.html

    Vladimir79
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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:30 pm

    The West are kicking our ass right out of India.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  medo on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:40 pm

    I think it is about politics. It seems India want to ally US to herself for counterbalance against China and Pakistan, while Russia want to be more neutral here.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:43 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The West are kicking our ass right out of India.

    Maybe.

    I would wait for the results of the heavy helicopter and light army helicopter tenders before I pass judgement.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:31 am

    The Mi-28N seems to me to be unfinished, while the AH-64 is a mature system.

    It is not a huge surprise that the AH-64 won this competition, but lets see what strings are attached.

    Mil are talking about a Mi-28M version with improved systems and aerodynamics etc etc.

    One of the main changes will be the EO system being changed to something like that fitted to the Ka-52s, and of course the radar system has been having problems too.

    Mil have said they will be looking to start production of the Mi-28M in about 2014/2015, and by then the bugs in the radar system should be sorted out and the aircraft ready to be what it should have been.

    Makes perfect sense for India to want a fully operational and capable helo, and while the Mi-28 has potential it probably isn't "there" yet.

    The Mi-28 is a significant step up from the old basic Mi-24, and it has every potential to actually be better than the AH-64D, in terms of protection, in terms of engine performance, in terms of reliability and maintainence, and in terms of costs, but the AH-64D has had years of operational experience and its systems have been tested and tweaked and improved, while the under funded Mi-28 has been to lots of airshows, but without full funding has largely stagnated.

    Now there is funding and even the base Mi-28A model is better than the Mi-24 it is replacing in terms of protection and fire power, but the Mi-28N needs a little more work.

    The Mi-28M will also sort out a number of issues including full dual control for flight training and combat safety, it will also have the ammo magazines for the 30mm cannon moved up into the cheeks of the nose with ammo supply greatly increased but with reduced drag, and new EO and perhaps radar systems, plus new more powerful engines, and new weapons options including Krisantema missiles with 8km range and also HERMES.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Austin on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:03 pm

    Yes As I understand we would be getting the AH-64D Block 3 with all the bells and whistles . Right now the Apache is a better and more mature platform but Mi-28 has more future potential plus logistic advantage with its common engine with Mi-17.

    The Mi-28NM which will come by 2015 will have all the bells and whistles that can match any one out there.

    Condi Rice in her recent book to be published mentioned that India has promised them that it would buy US arms in return for US supporting India on 123 Nuclear Deal.

    So expect more US purchase in the future we have already purchased big stuff like C-17,C-130 and now Apache more would come I am afraid.

    http://books.hindustantimes.com/2011/10/condoleezza-rice/

    ‘India agreed to buy US defence products in return for deal’

    “The Indians made it clear, too, that they hoped to become a customer for US military hardware,” Rice says in a chapter titled, “Building a new relationship with India.” The context of the Indian commitment was the nuclear deal.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Mindstorm on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:48 pm

    I agree with GarryB on the "diagnosis" of the Indian attack helicopters choice between Mi-28N and Apache-D block III founded mostly on technical basis (the question of US support on the 123 Nuclear Deal has ,in my opinion, only a secondary influence)

    AH-64D is simply a platform ready ,well tested and,above anything, with all main systems already integrated and validated for operation; the risks associated with AH-64D Block3 acceptance in Indian Forces is next to zero , Mi-28N ,on the other hand, while in my opinion a platform with a basis design,structure and parametrical fundamentals and grow edge superior to its American counterpart (as in the past already well demonstrated in Sweden Army evaluation tests between AH-64A and Mi-28) is ,at actual stage, an immature platform still lacking credible integration and validation of some truly crucial systems ,like the radar and a full structured DAS (in my opinion beginning the works for integration of President-S DAS on Ka-52 instead of Mi-28N was an enormous strategical mistake by part of Russia).

    The last words go to Hermes-A ,one more time a weapon virtually superior to those now operative or in development ,in the same operational niche, in USA but still in the testing phase.
    India, in my opinion has choosed ,at reason, the less risky option and ,anyhow, a very well tested and very good platform with outstanding avionics and a weapon "package" efficient and battle tested in war conditions.



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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:08 am

    Yes, Mindstorm, if we look at it piece by piece we can see why the Apache would win on technical grounds as from what I have read the Mi-28N wasn't fitted with a functioning radar.

    Equally AFAIK it had ATAKA missiles, and while it clearly finally had IR and laser threat warning systems (as seen near the nose) it didn't seem to be fitted with the full president DIRCMs system either, which means it had flares and chaff in the wingtip dispensers.

    The old TOR thermal sights have been criticised too.

    By 2015 the Mi-28M will have a more streamlined nose to allow higher flight speed and enlarged 30mm cannon ammo capacity (which is a fully dual feed system firing AP and HE ammo options).
    It should have a functioning radar system that includes CM and MM wave radar for air search and ground search respectively which should significantly exceed the range performance of the AH-64Ds radar. The new optics should provide a much better view of the battlefield, the helmet mounted sights include two large FOV glasses for a decent view rather than the small optics for one eye for the Apache that Apache pilots have described as like flying while looking through a straw.
    The new Krisantema is supposed to be a fire and forget homing missile with a range of at least 8km, while the Hermes heavy missile will double that range with a warhead of 30kgs that will demolish most targets from any angle.
    And of course with the President-M self protection suite it should be well protected from the most common threat to low flying aircraft... IR guided SAMs.

    Still the Indians seem to be prepared to spend the money... half a billion dollars for a C-17 transport aircraft, and from what I have read... 100 million for each Apache.

    To get high mission rates in Iraq the spares and maintainence budget and schedule respectively were tripled to ensure good availability rates... she will be expensive to keep in the air... but then the order is only for 22 machines which is a tiny number anyway... it is going to make them even more expensive.

    I am surprised they didn't consider a late model Cobra... able to perform 80% of the same missions but much cheaper and simpler and carrier capable too.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:28 am

    Technical considerations aside, I think it was mainly a political decision.

    A few moths ago, there was a report that license manufacture of the Mi-28 was being offered as part of a more substantive deal. But it's their money and can spend it how they see fit. This talk of a special relationship with India is just political rhetoric. They are strictly a commercial partner on a case by case basis.

    I can't see any logic in Russia's policy of limiting it's military cooperation with China to pander to Indian sensitivities....

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:59 am

    It limits its military sales to China because whatever they sell to China, China suddenly starts producing a domestic version that is slightly different that they offer for export in direct competition with the Russian original.

    So Russia seems to have adopted a position that it will sell only older lower tech stuff that is not their best, and to use the funds generated from those sales to fund improved versions.

    To be honest, the demanding conditions in India, it would end up a lot of extra work just for selling 22 helos.

    On the other hand the Heavy lift and light helicopter programs are rather more interesting... heavy helos are rarely made in large numbers anyway, and light helos in large numbers will be good for the Ka-226T, and I suspect due to its coaxial rotor system it will be able to fly very well in hot and high conditions and will be ideal for their needs.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  Cyberspec on Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:34 am

    GarryB wrote:It limits its military sales to China because whatever they sell to China, China suddenly starts producing a domestic version that is slightly different that they offer for export in direct competition with the Russian original.

    That's proven to be largely a myth so far. Apart from some hysterical media reports, I haven't seen any official Russian complaints or seen the J-11 up against the Su-27/30 in any tender. They seem to produce their versions for their own air force only, which is probably part of the deal.

    In any case, I'm talking about development of new stuff via joint ventures. The Chinese industrial capabilities have made major improvements since the 1990's



    To be honest, the demanding conditions in India, it would end up a lot of extra work just for selling 22 helos.

    On the other hand the Heavy lift and light helicopter programs are rather more interesting... heavy helos are rarely made in large numbers anyway, and light helos in large numbers will be good for the Ka-226T, and I suspect due to its coaxial rotor system it will be able to fly very well in hot and high conditions and will be ideal for their needs.

    We shall see...

    ________________________


    A Russian Journalist view on the tender....among other things, he thinks the crash of the Mi-28 a while ago played a part

    (rough but readable translation)

    The new does not mean the best - Denis Kovalenko,
    October 26, 2011

    Why Russian helicopter lost in the U.S. Air Force tender for India?


    Despite the fact that the Mi-28N was created as a direct response to AH-64 Longbow Apache, and their characteristics are very similar, the Indians chose not to our helicopter. The reason for that are not only technological and political circumstances, but an unfortunate incident that occurred at the demonstration firings of the Russian helicopter.

    The Mi-28N "Night Hunter" (according to NATO classification Havoc) began to develop back in the 80s of last century as our response to the American AH-64 Apache.

    Both machines are made ​​for single-rotor with fixed landing gear and tail wheel, engines are located in nacelles on the sides of the fuselage. In the cab, two members of the crew, one above the other. "Hunter" has turned out nearly 3 tons heavier than the American, but that you have installed more powerful engines (two against two 2200 hp to 1930 hp), power-to-takeoff weight of his best, which means a higher constructive excellence and performance characteristics.

    The maximum combat load of "Apache" - 771 lbs. In Mi-28, for comparison, 2,300 kg.

    In almost a similar principle of arming both helicopters, consisting of guns, guided and unguided missiles, apparently very similar, and even hung similar. Guns are about the same: it is a single-moving automatic guns of 30 mm caliber, established under the "chin" turret on a helicopter with approximately equal angles of fire, working in sync with the gun.

    But actually the difference between them is enormous. "Apache" is armed with a gun M230, designed specifically for him, it's relatively light weight of 54 kg gun with a rate of 625 rds / min., effective range against ground targets - 3,000 m, and its shortcomings - poor shooting accuracy, a relatively small initial velocity and insufficient capacity of shells. However, this is compensated by a large ammunition that when fired at short range is more important.

    On the Mi mounted a modified tank gun 2A42, a long and successful combatant in the Russian infantry combat vehicles and helicopters Mi-24. It is twice as heavy as the American - 115 kg. Placing it on the outside of the turret is extremely difficult - the recoil from it swings the helicopter and decreases accuracy. Nevertheless, the designers with the problem successfully managed, and accuracy of fire at the "Hunter" is higher than that of "Apache." In addition, the ballistic data fitted to the Mi-28 gun is far ahead of the American guns. The American projectile weight - 0.24 kg, while the Mi twice as much - 0.4 kg. Minute volley "Apache", "weight" of 147 kg, with twice as many MI - 301 kg. Range of shooting at our helicopters more - 4,000 m. As above, and the initial velocity of the projectile: the "Apache" - 550 m / sec., The Mi nearly twice as many - 980 m / sec.

    That provides exceptional accuracy and effectivness against armor. Russian helicopter with ease striking at a distance of 1500 m against 15 mm steel armor.

    Another difference - "Apache" can only shoot in short bursts because of the possibility of overheating the gun. Mi-28 is no problem to release immediately all the ammunition.
    The four external sites for both helicopters is suspended for 16 anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs). In MI it's supersonic missile precision "Ataka-V" with a radio command-guided with high noise immunity. Its range - 8 km. Possible to install anti-tank "Vikrh" laser-guided. Main armament of "Apache" - missile Hellfire AGM-114A laser-guided for the day. In poor visibility it is not feasible. But, as we are assured the Americans, arming the helicopter may be included missile AGM-114B with a radar-guidance. All anti-tank of the family "Hellfire", capable of engaging armored targets from a distance of 6-7 km, effective with the shooting at a moving small targets, fortifications, etc. .

    But they have one drawback - they are subsonic. This greatly increases the time of the attack, especially at large distances, increasing the vulnerability of the helicopter. Thus, the distance of 4 km U.S. rocket flies for 15 seconds., While the "Vikrh" it takes only 9 seconds. Mi-28N - the only helicopter in the world, capable of both manual and in automatic mode to fly at an altitude of five meters from the rounding of the terrain, day and night, in adverse weather conditions. "Apache" can not.

    To compare the characteristics of machines you can continue. But is there any sense because "calibrate" the two helicopters, which, in general, copy each other? Then why India chose this American helicopter and not Russian? In this regard, the expert community has a few opinions. The main one is that by law, Delhi should vary the purchase of arms and military equipment. That is to buy all the weapons in one hand he can not. Using this principle, the Indian market to actively make their way U.S. companies. Washington offers a full line of Delhi - from the military transport aircraft and attack helicopters to the fifth generation fighter F-35. We lost a tender to supply military transport aircraft. Instead, our IL-76 Delhi prefer to buy six U.S. C-130J-30 Super Hercules. For them to pay nearly $ 1 billion figure astronomical, considering that IL-76 would cost considerably less.

    In the case of "Apache" Agency for Defense Cooperation and Security U.S. Department of Defense (Defense Security Cooperation Agency) in the early years of the Congress informed possibility of supply of engines, equipment, weapons, training tools, spare parts and logistics facilities for the 22 attack helicopters, AH-64D «Apache Longbow," participating in the tender of the Ministry of Defence of India. This decision, the Americans have seriously undermined the position of the Mi-28N. Also - and this is perhaps the most important condition - the "Apache" is a long time series. He participated in virtually all military conflicts of recent times, has attended the U.S. Army. In his armament and avionics constantly amended in the light of this experience.
    Mi-28 fell into the army only in 2006. Since 2008, began its development instructor pilot in Torzhok. In 2010, the Army received a full squadron of "Night Hunter". Now formed the second. The Indians already had experience in purchasing "pre" samples of Russian arms. And certainly do not want, as in past times, get the whole bunch of related problems, more so for their own money.

    Last year, during an exercise at the landfill during Gorokhovets practical shooting high-precision missiles, one of our Mi-28N has fallen. Thanks to the machine design - shock-absorbing chassis and a capsule in which the pilots are capable of withstanding an overload of 15 g, the pilots survived. But the fact that the engines of the helicopter from getting stalled rocket exhaust, the Indians certainly been noticed. And to convince them that now this annoying defect is eliminated, is useless. Even showing footage of the latest exercises, where a group of Mi-28 produces full ammunition and guided missiles remained after this in the air. As they say Russian experts in the Indian tender our only argument was that we Delhi - strategic partners for many years supplied India their weapons. It did not work.

    But the chance to replay the situation remains. The fact that a decision on procurement of various types of weapons takes the Prime Minister. His decision is largely driven by the political preferences of the party which nominated him for the post. That is, if the party functionaries will adhere to the pro-American position, it will buy American technology. If the European views - would buy European fighters, as is currently happening in the tender for the supply of light fighters, of whom recently left our MiG-35. But the fact that elections in Indian states are literally every month. It's constantly changing political situation in the country. And the gain of one party in October, can easily be replaced by the defeat in November. And with it will change and the prime minister. So the chances of the Russian manufacturers of arms and military equipment to recover their lost positions always remain.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:25 am

    Regarding joint deals... joint deals with India usually involve Russian expertise in key areas India lacks experience combined with Indian funds and Indian expertise in electronics or software etc.
    Russian joint ventures with China were basically about Chinese money going into cash starved Russian companies.

    Whether the Chinese are actually successful in selling copied Russian products in competition with the original Russian makers is not important, the fact is that they have produced their own "su-27s" without permission, and have also revealed "versions" of other products like the S-300 etc which makes them an unreliable customer in terms of technology sharing.


    And if that crash is a reason to not buy the Mi-28N then it should also be a reason not to buy the Apache because AFAIK at least one British Apache crashed after firing a weapon from an inner pylon which created a gas plume that reduced the effect of the tail rotor and made the aircraft lose flight control, and after that British Apaches were forbidden from firing weapons from their inner pylons till further notice.

    The Mi-28M will have 2,700hp engines fitted.

    More importantly I have seen footage of testing showing 14.5mm HMG placed a few metres away from an Mi-28 and fired at both the side structure and the transparencies and it failed to penetrate... in comparison the much larger side transparencies of the Apache have been penetrated with rifle fire.

    I said it before and I will say it again, if India is going to pick its weapons to ensure they don't all come from the same source (no matter how reliable that source is) then it would be better for Russia to win the heavy and light helicopter competitions than the attack helo competition simply based on the numbers involved.

    I would suspect that Mil will be getting a significant share of the 1,000 odd helos the Russian military are going to buy up to 2020, and exports of Mi-8/-17s are going strong due to their performance in Iraq and Afghanistan... even Pakistan are buying them so the fact that they didn't win this competition is not that important in the general scheme of things.

    Personally I think they should make two models, one simple and straight forward with good optics and systems but no radar, the other can be the all bells and whistles model with a full radar suite.

    It does seem that the Russian military seems to have focused on the Ka-52 a bit more than the Mi-28 as the Ka-52 seems to be fitted out with a UAV control system that the Mi-28 could probably use too. The Apache is supposed to be getting that capability too in the near future as well.

    TheArmenian
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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TheArmenian on Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:43 am

    It would anyways be hard for the Russians to win both the attack helicopter and the heavy-lift helicopter tenders.
    Both choppers are built solely in the Rostvertol plant which is already busy enough assembling considerable amounts Mi-28s, Mi-35s and Mi-26s for the Russian airforce. They also have orders for the Mi-35s for the Azerbaijan airforce.

    It would have been a nice problem to win both tenders.

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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TR1 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:55 pm

    http://s.photosight.ru/img/4/661/4550556_large.jpeg

    Looking good!

    GarryB
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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:55 am

    Very nice looking aircraft...

    Could probably do with darker main rotor blades though IMHO... Smile

    TR1
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    Re: Mi-28N Havoc: News

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:05 pm

    Not exactly Mi-28 news, but from same plant, also couldn't find a Mi-24 thread in RuAF section.
    Apparently the first order for 22 mi-24BMs has been followed up by another contract for 26 airframes. So that's 48 Mi-24BMs on order today.

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