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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

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    Viktor
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:49 pm


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:04 pm

    What a piece of shit is this guy


    Nazi shithead. I hope there are few people like him.

    Now the good news.
    According to RT live it's ceasefire.. thanks god

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:32 pm



    There are reports that Slavyansk is totally encircled from all sides recently by the kiev national guard using many armored vehicles.. any news of how good or bad is the situation for the the rebels ,specially in Slavyanks

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Firebird on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:46 pm

    My concern is that Willy Wanker from the chocolate factory is using ceasefires for his own ends.
    ie to allow troop movements without ambush..

    I still cant understand Putin. All I can think is that attacking Russians on their own soil should be the proverbial "line in the sand" for Russia.

    So either he doesn't count them as Russians. Or he tolerates attacks on Russians on their own soil.

    PS why is Putin allowing OSCE observers at Russian border crossings. 1st, they're just politicised lackeys of the EU and US expansionists. 2ndly, there are no border crossings at Novorossiya, or the Western Ukraine being monitored. Sounds so one sided its bizarre.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Firebird on Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:52 pm

    What are people's views on the solution currently?
    ie what should it be? And what WILL it be?
    Have your views changed?

    Should Donetsk and Lugansk become part of Russia? Or sthg like Transnistria?
    Or should the Ukraine (minus the Crimea ofcourse) become a stable Federation.
    Or a Fedn on its way to indep |republics?
    Should the 7 or oblasts in the S and East separate? Or should there be another form of partitition?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:18 pm

    My views changed a lot.
    I'm disgusted by Russian actions. Not only it shows weakness, inconsistency, but even makes Putin look like a liar who only has big mouth. Remember his lies about that there were no Russian soldiers in Crimea? This can be forgiven, but what about promises to East Ukrainians to protect them?? It was main thing he promised in his statement. What kind of reputation he makes for a country? No one listens to anything Russia has to say..

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:57 pm

    Firebird wrote:What are people's views on the solution currently?
    ie what should it be? And what WILL it be?
    Have your views changed?

    Should Donetsk and Lugansk become part of Russia? Or sthg like Transnistria?
    Or should the Ukraine (minus the Crimea ofcourse) become a stable Federation.
    Or a Fedn on its way to indep |republics?
    Should the 7 or oblasts in the S and East separate? Or should there be another form of partitition?


    Russia with the help of EU and the resistance of rebels holding up... needs to pressure Poroshenko to

    1)FUll real cease of fire no more fights.. for indefinite time.
    2)Allow civilians to leave the combat zone with rebels escorting them to the borders.
    3)ask all kiev forces to move 20km away at least from Slavyansk and all Rebels  positions.
    4) Full parliamentary elections with governor elections in every other non conflict zone all monitored
       by UN ,EU with RUssian inspectors. This is to remove the CIA-nazis from parliament.
    5)Constitution change ,full autonomy or semi autonomy in all South and east Ukraine at least.
      from Odessa to Kharkiv at least. So all Pro Russian zones have an elected Governor pro Russia with Pro Russian
      armed police at least with pistols and basic gun..to avoid another odessa masacre.
    6)to remove all Ultra nationals and radicals neonazis from security positions ,justice or armed forces.
    7)once Poroshenko do all those things there will be enough positive actions to create a negotiation process..to
    Try to negotiate for a full autonomy for Donetsk and Lugansk but within Ukraine,allow the rebels keep their guns as long they do not take more territories beyond Donetsk and Lugansk. to govern their zones elect their own government and have their own police and their own army..have their security and police in charge of their zones.
    Simply the rebels will be giving full autonomy and they pay taxes to kiev..like every normal city..

    Federalization is the only way to solve Ukraine problems.. The Pro Russian citizens needs a government that they can trust.. and the only way they can get that is with federalization and the removal of Right sector and other
    nazis from any position that could allow them to carry weapons.

    Until now the Rebels it looks they are holding somehow ,but not sure until last 24 hours reports of they being totally blockade from all sides and encircled. The problem that will happen if Russia invade is total disband of Ukraine.. because Odessa ,Kharkiv and other cities will also want Russia to invade their cities..and give them the
    independence that they have been far lazy to fight for themselves. And if Russia forced to invade other cities ,(what NATO wants) they will end fighting civilians too pro Kiev. and could provoke a major civil war.. either because more cities wants to separate from keiv or because the right sector will pressure kiev to continue fighting.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:20 pm

    Jesus, guys stop mentioning Parasha-enko, that pig has no say in all that whatsoever.
    It is the USA who dictates every single military action and every political action in Ukraine, not that jewish pig.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Strizh on Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:42 am

    Things are very complicated! But we need to keep a cool head!!!

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:51 am


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  etaepsilonk on Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:53 am

    Regular wrote:My views changed a lot.
    I'm disgusted by Russian actions. Not only it shows weakness, inconsistency, but even makes Putin look like a liar who only has big mouth. Remember his lies about that there were no Russian soldiers in Crimea? This can be forgiven, but what about promises to East Ukrainians to protect them?? It was main thing he promised in his statement. What kind of reputation he makes for a country? No one listens to anything Russia has to say..

    Protect them how exactly?
    Let's not be disillusioned here, Russian intervention won't stop the bloodshed, furthermore, every event of "collateral" will be blamed on Russia if she puts boots on the ground.
    At least now Ukrainian side is gaining quite a few opponents for their ridiculous propaganda, like "airconditioners", "russian su-25 painted in ukrainian colors", etc.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:29 pm

    This can be forgiven, but what about promises to East Ukrainians to protect them?? It was main thing he promised in his statement. What kind of reputation he makes for a country? No one listens to anything Russia has to say..

    He never promised to support them in a civil war to separate from the Ukraine and has been telling them to use diplomatic resolutions rather than military resolutions.

    As soon as Putin sends in troops then Kiev will invite NATO troops in to help "Solve" the situation and then what will happen?


    Do you know?

    Putin doesn't... because no one does... it is the situation the US want to create and is pushing hard for, but what would they care about another war in europe... it solved the last depression too didn't it?

    Putin would be an idiot to invade the Ukraine... Ukraine is not part of Russia and never needs to be. If some Ukrainians want to join Russia then let them move there. If some Ukrainians have a problem with their government in Kiev then let them deal with it.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:54 pm

    Aside of a big impact on Russian economy (EU suicide sanctions on Russia )another reason that Russia might had to not invade is for things not many have acknowledge . That is the Syrian and IRAQ war. IF Russia invade Ukraine... US and its allies like Turkey ,Israel and Jordan can retaliate by invading Syria.

    If Russia invade Ukraine ,there is a very high probability of a major attack on Syria will start. By Turkey ,israel ,saudi Arabia and US firing cruise missiles from Persian Gulf too on damascus taking advatage that no one will know of US attacks being covered by 3 nations attacks., And this will be very bad because Russia will be unable to defend Syria with 3-4  nations , neither defend IRAQ from its neighbors that are using ISIS as a proxy ,that are seeking to overthrow shias from power .while at the same time Russia is busy with Ukraine .This means
    that if Russia invades Ukraine the world attention will be on Ukraine and very little on Syria at least in western media..

    You also will have lots of False flags attacks , with Ukrainian planes painted with Russian flag bombing civilians in kiev with the aim to unite all Ukrainians rage against Russia and not against their own government. And if Ukraine economy collapse then it will be blamed on Russia invasion. you also have Ukraine nuclear reactors.. they could blow them and later blame Russia.  The neo nazis that the US congress control ,will not mind destroying their own nation if paid the right price.And RUssia will be forced to drive their tanks all the way to the capital to install a new government.. im really sure thats the plan. To sabotage Russia economy as much as possible and take advantage of Russia being busy in Ukraine to attack Syria.

    What i will do if i was Putin is to try to get IRAN and CHina in Syria and IRAQ with its Tanks and artillery and a decent number of airforce and at least 25,000 strong army on each country. So that Russia can focus on Ukraine alone and only limit to logistics and weapons to Syria and IRAQ. Russia needs to start creating under close doors an alliance for a war ,so the impact on its economy will not be too bad  also impact on its nation unrest.

    edit..
    Just look at this news..
    Saudi Arabia the main financier of ISIS , and supply them weapons ,is already preparing to attack IRAQ.
    30,000 troops at IRAQ border. next picture shows Saudi terrorist army in US tanks.



    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738824

    Im 100% sure ,that as soon Russia invade Ukraine ,hell will breake in Middle east and under any pretext Saudi Arabia , TUrkey and Israel will invade either Syria or IRAQ under pretext they are "fighting ISIS". But with the real intention to help them and overthrow the Government of Syria and IRAQ and split their territories in parts ,with Syria and IRAQ oil fields under their control in a new Independent country. Why Russia will have problem to support independence in Ukraine and later deny independence for Kurds in Middle east. A major middle east war could happen any time withing days of few weeks and reason is Rebels are just weeks away of being totally wiped in Syria at least on all cities and ISIS are being decimated in IRAQ.  SO you will have "CIA-ISIS" false flags likes there is no tomorrow to justify US middle east puppets invasion in Syria and IRAQ. And once those nations invade and start a war ,US can also launch cruise missiles from the persian gulf under pretext is "Attacking ISIS". Already Obama is warning with "ISIS terrorist attacks" on the west on their airports and airlines. The west is simply in preparation for
    for the invasion of its allies of Syria and IRAQ ,and  they using its media to justify it.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:07 pm; edited 7 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Firebird on Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    He never promised to support them in a civil war to separate from the Ukraine


    Putin would be an idiot to invade the Ukraine... Ukraine is not part of Russia and never needs to be. If some Ukrainians want to join Russia then let them move there. If some Ukrainians have a problem with their government in Kiev then let them deal with it.

    I think Putin made it abundantly clear that the slaughter of Russians in the Ukrainian state was not acceptable. But he hasn't done a lot about it.

    Garry, your knowledge of Russian military is often wonderful.
    But I'm sorry to say, your understanding of Russian identity, history and culture is rather lacking.
    Would you be recommending London stand aside if American helped some Welsh nationalists mass slaughter pro British/English people in Wales?

    Even today, there are Russians in the Ukraine. They have always lived there and never anywhere else.They were born in Russia. Their children are Russian, as are their great grandchildren. We're only talking back around 1920s. And yet the bullshit Ukr govt prohibits them from owning Ru passports, even dual citizenship. This is a clear and HUGE breach of intl law.

    Even the current dogshit like Willy Wanker and Tymoshanko are native Russian speakers, feeding off the opportunism, hate, corruption, greed and American puppeteering.

    The current Ukrainian state is a purely artificial creation of what was part of the same country as Russia as recently as 1991. It has no constitutional validity to even claim existence. Putin thinks so privately. Why the fuck he doesn't do more is beyond me.

    I'll reply to the other posts later today.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:14 pm

    In life either you grab the chance either you leave it forever. Back in February-March I said I would massively invade Ukraine overthrow the government in Kiev and finish it once and for all.
    Then leave with a promise to return if they don't change their minds once and for all. Putin decided otherwise and now he obliged to carry his plan through.
    He did the same "light footing" in Georgia and now they are as proAmerican as ever. We have a different logic but OK let us try his logic first.


    Last edited by Hannibal Barca on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  As Sa'iqa on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:19 pm

    If you invaded Ukraine, you would face years of insurgency Even if you stopped only in the East, you would still have to deal with a massive backlash from USA and to a lesser degree EU.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Asf on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:21 pm

    under any pretext Saudi Arabia , TUrkey and Israel will invade either Syria or IRAQ under pretext they are "fighting ISIS"


    Do you believe in a mystic staff?  Smile  There was famous bulgarian "prophetess", who told in 80s or 90s Russia will be great after Syria will fall and "glory of Russia, glory of Vladimir won't past". She was correct about "Kursk will sunk" actually...

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Asf on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:29 pm

    If you invaded Ukraine, you would face years of insurgency 

    Oh, c'mon, "two ukrainians are a partisan team, and three ukrainians are a partisan team with a traitor" (c). 

    Seriously, I don't think common ukrainians apart from crazed nationalists will be strictly against joining Russia at the face of Ukraine's economy collapse. Let them just taste that EU is. But I don't think somebody wants to occupy them in that state of disorder

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:53 pm


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:54 pm

    Asf wrote:
    under any pretext Saudi Arabia , TUrkey and Israel will invade either Syria or IRAQ under pretext they are "fighting ISIS"


    Do you believe in a mystic staff?  Smile  There was famous bulgarian "prophetess", who told in 80s or 90s Russia will be great after Syria will fall and "glory of Russia, glory of Vladimir won't past". She was correct about "Kursk will sunk" actually...

    Yes i believe in that stuff.. predictions ..
    She looks quite genuine ,not like others ..but her predictions ,her real ones , there is no way to know..
    Because some said , she never said that or so or that those predictions were added later by fanatics trying
    to take advantage .. etc.. Still is very interesting some of the predictions on internet attribute to her.
    Like for example she claims Russia will melt all other powers and will lead the world. She also said Russia and USA will become allies one day.. but naive people think that was the collapse of Soviet Union ,which is not true. The cold war never have ended . here is some of her predictions according to some ..



    She also talks about a new religion that will replace all others and new spiritual leader. Her more interesting predictions are colonies of humans in Mars and their declaration of independence from earth. and wars in mars.
    But also extraterrestial beings that will scare humanity.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Asf on Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:47 pm

    Her more interesting predictions are colonies of humans in Mars and their declaration of independence from earth. and wars in mars.
    But also extraterrestial beings that will scare humanity.

    Those must be not real ones.

    But still she was a "witch" of some kind. Not a godsent person for sure. People mistrusted such stuff for centuries for a reason

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:25 pm

    sho blt oxueli? Very Happy Ffs it's supposed to be military forum. Haha when you started talking about Vanga You literally sounded like babushkas sitting on the bench.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Firebird on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:12 am

    Regular wrote:My views changed a lot.
    I'm disgusted by Russian actions. Not only it shows weakness, inconsistency, but even makes Putin look like a liar who only has big mouth. Remember his lies about that there were no Russian soldiers in Crimea? This can be forgiven, but what about promises to East Ukrainians to protect them?? It was main thing he promised in his statement. What kind of reputation he makes for a country? No one listens to anything Russia has to say..

    Yeah. We all know the speculated plan of Putin. Keep overt mil action out as a way of converting public opinion to be pro Russia.

    The problem is, in the West, this approach simply shows Russia in a bad light. Seeing dead Russians, traded as part of some "strategy" cheapens Russia. It makes Western people consider Russians to be like Afghans or Africans where life is very cheap. THere is no deterrent for Chechens or other Islamic loons to think "ahhh well he didnt mind Russians being killed in the Ukraine, so we can get away with murder here, after all, this area is mostly Chechen (etc) anyway".

    Sooner or later there has to be a line in the sand. A red line. I mean Russia spends zillions on nuclear deterrents, but now u have to ask, "would Putin EVER use it". If he wont kill a few hohol Nazis slaughtering Russian kids, who the fuck will he kill?

    So many W Europeans see thro the bull, and could easily accept a Russian intervention. Just look at somehwere like the comments section in Yahoo news. ANd this includes Americans too.

    I know the argument is that Putin has a strategy. But there comes the pt when the strategy has to justify itself. Too many deaths, and ANY justification is gone forever. The clock really is ticking now.

    I know Putin's position has been very strong in Russia. But surely it gets to the pt where one powerful figure says to another "you know, maybe our esteemed leader should consider whether he's lost his edge. Maybe its time he stood down. Nudge nudge".

    I have been a real fan of him in most things, but it boils down to 1 thing. Putin is talking about soft power now. But what has soft power done with the hohols in the past. The coup looks like a giant fuck up that should never have happened. So why does he choose soft power vs hard power? I cannot see it.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:11 am

    I think I know how the guys on top think in the matter. I mean this guys in KGB really read history, I mean the old guard around Putin, and they know very well to get the extra five years Hannibal or Adolf didn't take. I said it again, I do think that's in their minds. Honestly I would think the same if I was in charge although now I sound more hothead.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Asf on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:40 am

    it's supposed to be military forum

    A battle magic, isn't it nice? Smile

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