The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

I hope he understands that without Russia his country would be worse than Moldova.
Now back to Ukrainian matters. Can someone explain me what are these sanctions everyone is talking about. There were people saying that sanctioning Russia isn't possible. EU till today haven't got unified position about it. And they still threaten even when Russia backed down.
But then again we had Putin who promised protection for people in E.Ukraine, he even said that if Ukrainian army dares harm civilians. How many of them died by now?
How real are those sanctions? What stopped Russia to even defend their border from intrussions and attacks on russian soil?

First and last time. There are no sanctions whatsoever! It's just a Jewish pet policy. Jews always have this idea of holding the initiative at all cost and have this hype of absolute superiority in everything. When they can't do it they find a marketing thing and balloon it. This is basically a "label", a toolkit, and go around to each one of their puppets and say to them "either you condemn Russian and say yes to "sanctions" either I destroy you" so directly so shamelessly and in the mean time use this term sanctions to give the impression that they are overlords and teach the small pervert  (this is Russia) a tough lesson. They are completely out of reality. Fact is they don't control anything and they lose power with lightning speed.

Regular wrote:I hope he understands that without Russia his country would be worse than Moldova.
Now back to Ukrainian matters. Can someone explain me what are these sanctions everyone is talking about. There were people saying that sanctioning Russia isn't possible. EU till today haven't got unified position about it. And they still threaten even when Russia backed down.
But then again we had Putin who promised protection for people in E.Ukraine, he even said that if Ukrainian army dares harm civilians. How many of them died by now?
How real are those sanctions? What stopped Russia to even defend their border from intrussions and attacks on russian soil?

Ohh that he knows very well.

без России нам хана

Regular wrote:I hope he understands that without Russia his country would be worse than Moldova.
Now back to Ukrainian matters. Can someone explain me what are these sanctions everyone is talking about. There were people saying that sanctioning Russia isn't possible. EU till today haven't got unified position about it. And they still threaten even when Russia backed down.
But then again we had Putin who promised protection for people in E.Ukraine, he even said that if Ukrainian army dares harm civilians. How many of them died by now?
How real are those sanctions? What stopped Russia to even defend their border from intrussions and attacks on russian soil?

THe US dollar is the official world currency for business and American -Jewish Banks totally controls about half of the world economy through their american-jewish institutions.. ie.. VIsa/Mastercard,Paypal,World bank ,IMF.. Wallstreet. All shopping transactions to Europe ,Japan ,australia ,South Korea can only happen through JewAmerican Institutions. So if US blocks Visa or Mastercard for Russia ,then no Russian citizens will be able to buy anything in Europe or other allies and will not be able to travel or buy anything in US allies zones either ,not buy anything from internet or at least from the west. However for Russia Government this is a small thing however..it can be a major pain to young people who shops a lot on internet or play video games..etc. even though US cannot sanction Russia in a significant way ,not directly ,because their trade is small , US can black mail Europe and force them to STOP trading with Russia and isolate their business with the west.  And this is exactly what obama wants.. to isolate Russia from the west. This is the big thing ,because it will impact dramatically Russia economy ,specially energy business. (something that will be a NON-issue in less than a decade thanks to Russia moving to China-India and Asia) However if Europe stop trading
with Russia ,its economy will collapse.      So believe it or not the exceptional American Kenyan president wants their allies to sabotage their economy ,"for their own good" in order to Isolate Russia for its actions in Ukraine ,a conflict that was provoked by them.

So yes US cannot sanction Russia in a major way.. not directly ,but they with a major blackmailing campaign can force their allies to commit economical suicide. Germany will be the one with the major blow to their economy
because they sell lots of Luxury BMW cars in Russia. Germany could lose for example 400,000 jobs if Russia stop trading with germany.. in cars alone. And Europe buys 140 Billions Cubic meter of natural per year from Russia..
So this will damage Russia economy ,but so will damage even more Europe ,because USA cannot replace Russia energy business in the near future.

So USA sanctions to Russia= Blackmail and extortion to allies. Since the EU are all colonies of US ,they depend of american banks for all their business. So  US have many ways creative legal but also illegal ways to force european countries to obey their sanctions. Europe could bypass sanctions using not american banks and isntea using Chinesse or Russian banks and trading in Roubles or yuan for example ,but that also will cost them Fines with Jewish -americans banks for not following the American way of trading .    One example of how US can pressure Europe.. is France..  The exceptional US senators wanted France to cut the Mistral sales ,that was signed back in 2011 and have nothing to do with Ukraine.    And france refused because have nothing to do with Ukraine
and they will lose billions and many thousands of jobs on top will have to pay penalties Russia for not delivering the contract. Then from nowhere US banks finance France banks with $10 billions fine for any fabricated excuse.

“ Putin told today..."We know about the pressure that our American partners put on the French so that they would not deliver the Mistral [ships] to Russia,” Putin said. “And we know that [they] hinted that if the French don't deliver Mistral, sanctions on banks will be gradually removed, or at least minimized. What is this, if not blackmail?" wrote:

http://rt.com/news/169628-putin-ukraine-west-barracks/

So really the US government operated no different than a Drugs Cartel in Colombia. So those are examples how US manipulate the world economy. Through extortion and blackmailing. Because American and Jews banks controls their economy. Then you have other more sinister examples like what happened to Yakunovych for not signing the
EU trade pact and not rejecting Russia trade block. That he got a revolution financed by the US congress that overthrew him from power. etc..  

So no US cannot isolate Russia energy business because is too big to fail ,covers not only europe but also Asia. And in the near future China alone can replace Europe as energy client ,if Russia needs too .But still they can indirectly sanction Russia by blackmailing their allies to stop trading with Russia. But what Obama is doing can also destroy US economy. Because Russia through their BRICS Nations can stop trading in US dollars and collapse the american economy. Russia also can stop selling rockets to US and nearly end the US manned space program at least for 5 years.So all said Obama trying to isolate Russia and Sabotage their economy is like playing with Fire on a Gasoline station that one of its pumps is broken and spilling gasoline in the floor.  Is going to hit hard back at the american economy. Because the American economy depends on Europe too.. If the European economy is bad ,they stop trading with US too. And stop buying from americans too.

Also make no mistake the sole talk about sanctions , against Russia damage the growing of its economy.because scare investors.. This is why you hear a lot sanctions here and sanctions there. even though the sanctions look funny ,travel ban etc.. the real effect is worse ,because create a negative image in Russia as a safe place to invest.
For the economic war happening between Russia and US.

But when it comes to total Isolation of Russia is not going to work really.. what Obama is trying to do.. They think they can isolate Russia and not shoot on their own foots ,on their own economy at the same time. However maybe the people that controls US Government or have a significant influence , The Jewish Federal Reserve bankers ,do not really care if American economy collapse, they are all rich and can backup their money with gold and will not suffer much and they only seek to Control the world economy and collapse Russia. even if that means having many millions jobless in US and Europe.

A possible counter-coup in the making in Ukrainian military circles?...

Emails 'hacked' reveals a possible mutiny in the Army of Ukraine

Hackers claim to have intercepted email correspondence between senior Ukrainian charges reveals his attitude toward participating in military operations in the east, and the possibility of a possible mutiny Army.

Supposedly this is correspondence between the Attorney General of Ukraine Vitaly Yarema, and Acting Defense Minister Mikhail Koval. The talks have been broadcast on the Web According to hackers, and Koval Yarema speak of "a riot captains" who want to opt out of the military operation in the east. The prosecutor and the minister discussed the different possibilities to influence them, reports the channel Rossiya 24 In your mail you can read sentences like the following:. - Koval: Have you heard about the troops? - Yarema: The revolution captains? Yes, I am aware. What do you think? - Koval: I have a couple of ideas. With the captains will have to act tough. - Yarema: fire them? - Koval: I have other ideas. Mostly related to their family ... well, you know. Declare them enemies Ukrainian separatists, etc. - Yarema: Do you not fear the consequences? - Koval: No, they are confused. They can not organize. The soldiers did not follow. Demobilization will promise a couple of months ago. We will remove the weapons. In addition, we will work with families as ever. Will suffice. - Yarema: The most important thing is not applying for passports [Russian], as the Berkut [the special unit of the Ukrainian police.] The Web complaints from soldiers who are unhappy with the conditions in the Ukrainian Army frequently appear . A few days ago a Ukrainian channel showed an interview in which National Guard military complained that the bulletproof vests that provide them are defective or that give them moldy bread. In late June, the authorities reported that in less than four months, nearly 17,000 police officers have been fired for "not fulfilling the oath".

Complete text en: http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/132663-hackear-correos-ucrania-motin-ejercito?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

...Here's my thoughts on this, I give this a 50/50 chance of being real or fake:

1.) The e-mails are fake and they are just another internet hoax (just like the Mayan 2012 hoax), or something more sinister that it could be a rumor purported by the Kiev coup govt. to justify a purge of "Pro-Russian" generals and officers, similar to the "Night of the long Knives". If the latter is true than it could get quite dangerous, and risk having the entire Ukrainian military turn against the fascist Porkyshenko Kiev govt. similarly how the Egyptian military handled Morsi. The most interesting piece is that the Acting Defense Minister Mikhail Koval suggesting coercing Ukrainian soldiers who refuse to fight by influencing them through their "families", and if that's true then it suggests that they'll threaten imprisonment and torture towards their family members to send a message to the disobedient.

2.) The e-mails are true, and if the Ukrainian govt. ignores this than they may be counter-couped in the next couple of months. There is validity in this claim  due to the facts of past developments. The Ukrainian conscripts and even the National Guard are dissatisfied with supplies and conditions, and we know for a fact that even high ranking officials of the Ukrainian military have jumped ship towards the Pro-Russian side such as Berezovsky of Crimea.

I dont know if its fake or not.. But i do know the more time pass ,week or months with the Criminal war in eastern
Ukraine , that civilians are being killed indiscriminately .. the more the Ukraine army ,police and people in position in
power will rebel against kiev.. I dont think Poroshenko could continue the war for a full year ,without being overthrow first. and the Army split in two sides and joining the Pro Russian side. And Ukraine economy will go from bad to worse ,is not going to help either. Even the Right sectors Russian haters if stop being paid and see there is no future for Ukraine will also defect to the Russian side .. This means that Family and food will have more weight than a national Ukraine flag. And the moment of truth when Ukraine economy collapse is when the real revolution with start through all cities ,when people are told their money in banks no longer have value. 

So really i do not see how can Ukraine survive for another one year or two at best. What i think is happening is US is trying before Ukraine economy collapse to get Russia to invade ,because that will help to united people against Russia and when later the economy collapse ,the government can lead people anger at Russia for it.  

One scenario that could happen and in my opinion the most likely one ,is that if Russia just sit down and wait Ukraine collapse on its own without invading ,and show Ukrainians that they are not really their enemies and everything going very well for Crimea ,is a major coup against Poroshenko and against the Right sector and that Pro Russian and neutral factions will take control of kiev ,in essence reversing the coup of NATO. thats a very real possibility that im sure the west is afraid . a Counter Coup ..something similar to Egypt . That will be a major Blow to US and NATO and the total loss of Ukraine to Russia.  However waiting and doing nothing the negative consequences is many thousands civilians killed.. This is why i believe the CIA is trying to provoke Russia to invade now (by Odessa massacres and chemical weapons and attacks on embassy etc) in order to united Ukrainians against Russia and that when their economy collapse ,that is blamed on Russia. Regardless if the emails are true or not.. the possibility of the Ukraine army disbanding is extremely High..If the Russian Media effectively manage to show (via internet ) to all Ukrainians censored media ,the war crimes being committed against civilians women and children in the east.  it all depends on Information ,if Ukrainians are aware of what is really happening or not.. in eastern ukraine or the dark future for its economy under the EU. I don't really think most of the Ukraine army will remain united if for example they aware the right sector and the airforce is attacking and killing entire Ukrainian soldier battalions that refuse to follow orders from kiev to bomb civilians .  So Russia needs to send an army of Journalist with cameras not only from Russia but from all europe to fully document what is happening.  To wake up the Ukrainians of what kiev is doing and push them to start another revolution. This is the only way to really fix Ukraine ,a counter revolution and remove The neonazis from power.

Vann7 wrote:I dont know if its fake or not.. But i do know the more time pass ,week or months with the Criminal war in eastern
Ukraine , that civilians are being killed indiscriminately .. the more the Ukraine army ,police and people in position in
power will rebel against kiev.. I dont think Poroshenko could continue the war for a full year ,without being overthrow first. and the Army split in two sides and joining the Pro Russian side. And Ukraine economy will go from bad to worse ,is not going to help either. Even the Right sectors Russian haters if stop being paid and see there is no future for Ukraine will also defect to the Russian side .. This means that Family and food will have more weight than a national Ukraine flag. And the moment of truth when Ukraine economy collapse is when the real revolution with start through all cities ,when people are told their money in banks no longer have value. 

So really i do not see how can Ukraine survive for another one year or two at best. What i think is happening is US is trying before Ukraine economy collapse to get Russia to invade ,because that will help to united people against Russia and when later the economy collapse ,the government can lead people anger at Russia for it.  

One scenario that could happen and in my opinion the most likely one ,is that if Russia just sit down and wait Ukraine collapse on its own without invading ,and show Ukrainians that they are not really their enemies and everything going very well for Crimea ,is a major coup against Poroshenko and against the Right sector and that Pro Russian and neutral factions will take control of kiev ,in essence reversing the coup of NATO. thats a very real possibility that im sure the west is afraid . a Counter Coup ..something similar to Egypt . That will be a major Blow to US and NATO and the total loss of Ukraine to Russia.  However waiting and doing nothing the negative consequences is many thousands civilians killed.. This is why i believe the CIA is trying to provoke Russia to invade now (by Odessa massacres and chemical weapons and attacks on embassy etc) in order to united Ukrainians against Russia and that when their economy collapse ,that is blamed on Russia. Regardless if the emails are true or not.. the possibility of the Ukraine army disbanding is extremely High..If the Russian Media effectively manage to show (via internet ) to all Ukrainians censored media ,the war crimes being committed against civilians women and children in the east.  it all depends on Information ,if Ukrainians are aware of what is really happening or not.. in eastern ukraine or the dark future for its economy under the EU. I don't really think most of the Ukraine army will remain united if for example they aware the right sector and the airforce is attacking and killing entire Ukrainian soldier battalions that refuse to follow orders from kiev to bomb civilians .  So Russia needs to send an army of Journalist with cameras not only from Russia but from all europe to fully document what is happening.  To wake up the Ukrainians of what kiev is doing and push them to start another revolution. This is the only way to really fix Ukraine ,a counter revolution and remove The neonazis from power.

Agree. Russia doesn't need to send Russian army in Ukraine, they should only allow the flow of volunteers and weapons to Novorussia. As they reported, there is around 45.000 Ukrainian soldiers included in ATO, so Ukrainian army practically doesn't have much reserves left to send them in the east. I think they already send to the east all heavy weapons in working condition (tanks, armored vehicles, artillery, MRLS). Novorussian army have to equip 4 infantry divisions with 50.000 man and they could push Ukrainian army out of Novorussia. AKs, PKs, SVDs, RPGs, mortars, ATGMs, etc are not that big and Russia could quickly sent them from ex-soviet stocks in trucks to Novorussia.

[quote="medo"]

Vann7 wrote:
Agree. Russia doesn't need to send Russian army in Ukraine, they should only allow the flow of volunteers and weapons to Novorussia. As they reported, there is around 45.000 Ukrainian soldiers included in ATO, so Ukrainian army practically doesn't have much reserves left to send them in the east. I think they already send to the east all heavy weapons in working condition (tanks, armored vehicles, artillery, MRLS). Novorussian army have to equip 4 infantry divisions with 50.000 man and they could push Ukrainian army out of Novorussia. AKs, PKs, SVDs, RPGs, mortars, ATGMs, etc are not that big and Russia could quickly sent them from ex-soviet stocks in trucks to Novorussia.

Still don't underestimate kiev capabilities , they have the full support of NATO zionist powers.. and they have long range artillery too and it will be a matter of time they start using in full scale biological weapons or chemical weapons. there is also Tomahacks missiles and drones that NATO have in the thousands. They can also launch mines and fully turn eastern ukraine into a mine field. Long Range artillery alone can truly can flatern all eastern ukraine..  The Self defense forces need to get control or mortars with long range ,like the ones that Ukraine army use.. But ideally it will be easier if Russia manage to get high tech weapons from NATO friendly powers.. like Spike missiles with 30km range from Peru or Spain or Italy.. and later they clueless wondering how in hell they got such weapons..      Kornets-D with up to 10km multi-purpose ,that can be used as anti tank or against low flying combat jets or against troops,it will come like a blessing ,they also very lethal but only Russia have them so is not convenient .   

Another amazing one ,probably the best weapon to counter the kiev army advantage are Krasnopol-m lazer
munition ..



With lazer designator ,the Rebels can pin-point with direct hit a target from 30km away in combination with others illuminating a target and the neoNazis will never know what hit them.    But for that they need to capture first a 152 mm towed gun .



That 152mm artillery canon in combination with laser projectile will be a game changing weapon ,and will be more than enough to kick the Ass of the Kiev right sector back to their capital .    

Here is a cool video of the cool weapon the Donetsk forces will love to have..pay attention to the explosive
power of the missile in the very end of the video..   

Luka is everywhere it seems.

http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/738579

So I may be right after all, he will start singing a different tune maybe sooner than I thought.

Anyways, Ukraine is screwed. I am glad though. I hope this also serves a purpose to Russian's as a whole on who they should really be dealing with. In this case, Russia should start sucking up to Iran to seek forgiveness because Iranians are still pretty pissed at Russia regarding lack of military cooperation, spare parts for Russian equipment in Iran, and the S-300 deal. In this case, Russia should seek total cooperation with Iran and start trading between the Rial and Rouble.

Yeah, Iran is such a tiger economy. Russia really needs to beg for that economic titan to trade with us. Who needs Europe.

Surprised no one mentioned, according to western media there is an offensive of the "government" forces and heavy fighting in the Novorussia region. Any updates?

TR1 wrote:Yeah, Iran is such a tiger economy. Russia really needs to beg for that economic titan to trade with us. Who needs Europe.

Well, seeing as how Europe is neither here nor there in what to do regarding Russia, they are far from reliable.  Add to what they are doing with Ukraine.

At least Iran is far more predictable.  And seeing how Europe really is trying hard to push Russia aside, I would say that Europe won't even be a major part of Russia's trade soon enough.

As well, Iran has lots to offer as does Russia to it.  What will Europe offer after this?  Nothing.  Seeing as how China is becoming Russia's largest trading partner. There is an almost 80M population market that is almost untouched thanks to Sanctions and are in dire need of products. Russian products at this point, if gone into Iran market, will be competitive over their. In that case, securing a relatively large consumer market. Especially since Iran is a middle class income society, and are heavy spenders.

TR1 wrote:Yeah, Iran is such a tiger economy. Russia really needs to beg for that economic titan to trade with us. Who needs Europe.

Only because of decades of U.S. led sanctions, it should be noted that Russia, China, India, Pakistan, South Korea, and Japan have high demand for Iranian oil and found ways to buy Iranian oil without using the U.S. Dollar, which suggests that if it weren't for decades of sanctions and technology embargo's than the Iranian economy would be exponentially more wealthy and advanced, at the very least it would be as wealthy as Saudi Arabia.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

TR1 wrote:Yeah, Iran is such a tiger economy. Russia really needs to beg for that economic titan to trade with us. Who needs Europe.

Only because of decades of U.S. led sanctions, it should be noted that Russia, China, India, Pakistan, South Korea, and Japan have high demand for Iranian oil and found ways to buy Iranian oil without using the U.S. Dollar, which suggests that if it weren't for decades of sanctions and technology embargo's than the Iranian economy would be exponentially more wealthy and advanced, at the very least it would be as wealthy as Saudi Arabia.

Correct.
Iran do not have a big paper dollar economy because of sanctions . But they have lots of Oil ,that they can use to pay. Since Russia is far from India and Pakistan and still do not have a pipeline to China finished. Russia can sell weapons to IRAN ,Lots of them and Iran can pay in Oil.. how>?  Simply whenever INdia needs Oil ,Iran supply it ,and later India give the money to Russia.

Of course all this will need Russia to bypass US sanctions ,but who cares? they trying to isolate Russia ,so no longer Russia needs to follow US and play their games.  IRAN also will buy about 8 new nuclear reactors ,each one will cost about $300 millions and IRAN can pay with Oil.. Really IRAN is a mine field and people are totally ignoring that you can trade not only with paper money but also with materials. Since IRAN is near India and pakistan and also close to the southern part of CHina , Russia can become officially the protectorade of IRAN and sale its oil to bypass US sanctions. Also Now Russia can sell S-300s to IRAN ,and show the finger to USA and Israel. in retaliation for their sanctions. So i also agree Russia needs to go Full Scale with IRan and streght its relations with them.. IRAN will buy lots of weapons likes there is no tomorrow.. however Russia will have to ask IRAN To cut ties with Hamas..
Because they are indeed a terrorist organization . And in any case IRAN can support only palestine but without weapons. Hezbolah in the other side will not be a problem for Russia ,since Russia see them as a legitimate paramilitary group ,contrary to Hamas. Hezbolah support Christians and welcome secular government like Syria.

So IRAN have Huge reserves of oil ,that Russia can use to sell oil to countries far from Russia oil fields all the way to Japan. Russia can become the official distributor of IRAN oil allowing South Korea,Japan ,South China ,South India and Pakistan to bypass sanctions. So Russia sells weapons to IRAN and technology and medicine and food and IRAN pays with Oil that is sold back to the east. Make no mistake there is HUGE business potential with IRAN..
thanks to US sanctions and only Russia is capable to bypass US sanctions without fear of any retaliation. IRAN also produce speed Boats that Russia can get as payment, IRAN also needs to Rare Materials for technology badly that Russia only have..and nuclear fuel too. and nuclear reactors they want 8 more ,that only Russia can make.In short IRAN is a gold mine ,because have been isolated for so long from the world ,and no nation do business with them for fear of US sanctions. I can forsee IRAN making contracts at the level of India of $10 Billions for weapons etc. Russia can also open the door of Europe to IRAN ,allowing the EU to bypass US sanctions ,so that they also can sale their products to IRAN.. like whenever IRAN wants something from Europe.. Russia buy it and later re-sale to IRAN.  It will make very angry the White House Neocons and Israel but Russia will not care..

Iran will buy any weapon Russia sell , and can significantly help IRAN with satellites . uff , is a real gold mine the business Russia can make with IRAN. Because they have Huge Oil reserves ,and their geographical location does not compete with Russia energy business. last business of Russia with IRAN was a Mega Power Electrical Station. Too many things . Really Russia will become very rich moving their business to all EuroAsia , that is IRAN ,South India ,South China ,South korea ,Japan ,and even more ridiculous rich if can maintain the doors opened at the same time with europe.

You guys are aware that Iran does actually have money right? The Rial may have faced devaluation greatly and high inflaction in Iran, but high inflation and devaluation can be dealt with them actually purchasing Russian goods like foods, heavy industrial equipment like manufacturing equipment (tools), automotives (although, they are a massive builder in that already), agricultural equipment, etc. Oil trade for goods is just a good way to leverage the high production and low consumption that Iran has regarding it.

If Iran wasn't important, US and EU companies wouldn't be clamoring to break into the market.

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As far as the fighting in Ukraine goes..... Fighting and shelling reported on all fronts, but no major movements. The DPR/LPR forces report inflicting significant losses (several tanks, APC's and trucks) as well as 2 x Su-25's shot down....since there is no photo evidence, it's likely they were damaged not shot down.

TR1 wrote:Yeah, Iran is such a tiger economy. Russia really needs to beg for that economic titan to trade with us. Who needs Europe.

Ohh yes, Europe the great economy Europe that is enslaved to US politics, happily harming their own economy just to piss of Russia.

Putting sanctions on Russia for the PR crap USA has created, what a great economy and trade partner that is willingly spilling own soup as long Russia doesn't get any to eat.

Russia in economics will always stay on the filled side of the table. Only natural resources are an assurance for wealth and Europe has no significant natural resources that is why European countries were the colonial forces, looting and killing other countries.

If russia would not have the 5th column it could do whatever it wanted and let bow down entire europe to its will, no one is willing to live in stonage without our modern technologies, and to get such technologies you need natural resources and Russia is almost a monopoly on metallurgy compared with the global market prices, for precious metals and any metal needed for almost everything.

Iran is already an autonomy and it is under sanctions, what great economy it would have when it could freely trade with other countries.

Europe is worthless as long USA exists!

SO far European countries are less than willing to impose sanctions on Russia. The scale of EU subservience to the Us is clearly overestimated.

Re: the shot down aircraft...there are reports that the Ukr-AF destroyed a crash landed Su-25 near Torez.

Also yesterday the seps claimed to have shot down a Su-24 near Lugansk

....

Sep BMP column, including what seems like a Strela-10 vehicle




The Ukr. Army has acknowledged the loss of a T-64 tank, several trucks and 4 x D-30 howitzers on the 1st of July

A d-30 howitzer in Sep hands

As Sa'iqa wrote:SO far European countries are less than willing to impose sanctions on Russia. The scale of EU subservience to the Us is clearly overestimated.

Their business elite is against sanctions....some of them even have a personal stake in Russia. The EU politicians on the other hand are different story....however, even they have to take into account the opinion of their business class, hence the hesitation

Cyberspec wrote:Re: the shot down aircraft...there are reports that the Ukr-AF destroyed a crash landed Su-25 near Torez.

Also yesterday the seps claimed to have shot down a Su-24 near Lugansk

BTW in the meantime, the Banderlogs have acknowledged the Su-24 and 1 x Su-25. But in their version, the pilots heroically evaded several SAM's before being finally hit but still managing to glide back to base....either way, IMO both aircraft sound like write offs

  http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/02/su24/