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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

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    Erk
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Erk on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:01 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Vann7 wrote:It seems OSCE read this Forums and aware of this thread and feeling the pressure.. and trying to save a bit of face.. Laughing


    Ukraine: "Heavy weapons spotted in gov-controlled areas"- OSCE chief


    So first we have BBC stating that it's their right to define the war in Ukraine as a civil war and now FINALLY the OSCE starting to point fingers at Kiev.

    Perhaps there's finally a shift happening. We'll see though.

    The war in Ukraine is not a civil war. A civil war is when two sides fight for control of the government. Ukraine is a war of succession to create new states. The Ukrainian constitution forbids the use of the military against it's own citizens, hence the Anti Terrorist Operation to get around that.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Neutrality on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:02 pm



    Washington's growing worry with Poroshenko's recent lay offs. Seems Yats is still supported.

    Karl Haushofer wrote:There is no shift.

    None of this is being mentioned in the Western mainstream media or by the Western politicians.

    Vitaly Churkin doesn't care. Last time during the UNSC assembly Alexander Hug was on a live feed giving a report on the situation in Donbass. Now the same Alexander Hug is telling the exact opposite of what Washington wants to hear and they can't deny that this time.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Neutrality on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:03 pm

    Erk wrote:
    The war in Ukraine is not a civil war. A civil war is when two sides fight for control of the government. Ukraine is a war of succession to create new states. The Ukrainian constitution forbids the use of the military against it's own citizens, hence the Anti Terrorist Operation to get around that.

    Nah you don't understand what this means for the warmongers in Ukraine. They were very unhappy with the BBC because the BBC didn't go with "Russian aggression" like Kiev hoped.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:06 pm

    Erk wrote:The war in Ukraine is not a civil war. A civil war is when two sides fight for control of the government. Ukraine is a war of succession to create new states.

    The war is about government control in a certain areas, ergo a civil war. Otherwise, the American Civil War would not be called a civil war.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:18 pm

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:


    Anyone here can confirm that the Ukrainian Bulats are actually being kept from the front lines to be used as force cohesive propaganda?

    I have heard rumors.


    1st Seperate Tank Brigade are the main tank assault unit of UA but they got badly hammered at Novosvetlovka last summer and ultimately failed at Donetsk airport. If we see them again it will probably be in a major ukrops assault either to the east or west of Gorlovka or on the Volnovakha front, or more likely as burnt wrecks on a battlefield somewhere between Krasnoarmeisk and Artemovsk in a few months time.

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  whir on Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:12 pm

    На линии огня wrote:Kharkov: Peonies The echelon of military equipment moving in the area of ATO

    ФЕДЕРАЛЬНОЕ АГЕНТСТВО НОВОСТЕЙ wrote:Girl with a sniper callsign Bagheera came from Serbia to protect Donbass

    UkeTube wrote:University of Toronto censors book on corruption in Ukraine

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:53 pm

    5 Maidan soldiers KIA and 3 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday.

    http://news.yahoo.com/land-mine-blast-east-ukraine-kills-5-soldiers-121802246.html

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:58 pm

    Memorial in Donetsk today to honor the defenders of Slavyansk from a year ago. Donbass's version of the Alamo. That defense allowed the rest of the Donbass to get organized to resist the UAF.
    http://dan-news.info/obschestvo/doneck-pochtil-pamyat-opolchencev-i-zhitelej-slavyanska-pogibshix-v-boyax-za-gorod.html

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  whir on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:11 pm

    News-Front wrote:Tank attack battalion "Diesel"

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:45 pm

    Ukrops have been bombarding the area around Tavricheskoe, which is to the SW of Telmanovo and by the Pavlopol reservoir. The reservoir forms the front line so there will not be any major VSN defensive positions along the reservoir at that location. The only damage is that about 100 hectares of wheat are burning. The bombardment went on for about 40 minutes so it was deliberate. Ukrops are not going to starve Donbass of bread by bombarding a few fields so it is difficult to see a motive other than spite, and to show they can and will bombard what they want and whenever they want.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  franco on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:02 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Ukrops have been bombarding the area around Tavricheskoe, which is to the SW of Telmanovo and by the Pavlopol reservoir. The reservoir forms the front line so there will not be any major VSN defensive positions along the reservoir at that location. The only damage is that about 100 hectares of wheat are burning. The bombardment went on for about 40 minutes so it was deliberate. Ukrops are not going to starve Donbass of bread by bombarding a few fields so it is difficult to see a motive other than spite, and to show they can and will bombard what they want and whenever they want.

    Unfortunately that does seem to be their prime reason for bombardment, simple destruction of civilian infrastructure.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:26 pm

    Khepesh wrote:Ukrops have been bombarding the area around Tavricheskoe, which is to the SW of Telmanovo and by the Pavlopol reservoir. The reservoir forms the front line so there will not be any major VSN defensive positions along the reservoir at that location. The only damage is that about 100 hectares of wheat are burning. The bombardment went on for about 40 minutes so it was deliberate. Ukrops are not going to starve Donbass of bread by bombarding a few fields so it is difficult to see a motive other than spite, and to show they can and will bombard what they want and whenever they want.

    Ukrops can't starve Donbass, but funny thing is they are convinced that they can. It shows that their grip on reality is quite loose...

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:02 pm

    Further info now says that Tavricheskoe itself was also targetted and there is destruction, but so far no news of casualties.
    The precise location, as this is an obscure place and this action is not yet on military maps https://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=37.853599%2C47.327288&z=14&l=map

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  whir on Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:56 pm

    //Accidents news wrote:Kharkiv. "Right Sector" defeated in Saltovka drugstore, traded kodepsinom

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:09 pm

    Khepesh wrote:
    2SPOOKY4U wrote:


    Anyone here can confirm that the Ukrainian Bulats are actually being kept from the front lines to be used as force cohesive propaganda?

    I have heard rumors.


    1st Seperate Tank Brigade are the main tank assault unit of UA but they got badly hammered at Novosvetlovka last summer and ultimately failed at Donetsk airport. If we see them again it will probably be in a major ukrops assault either to the east or west of Gorlovka or on the Volnovakha front, or more likely as burnt wrecks on a battlefield somewhere between Krasnoarmeisk and Artemovsk in a few months time.
    I'm assuming that the VSU is doing the same thing with their T-84s then?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:31 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:
    Khepesh wrote:
    2SPOOKY4U wrote:


    Anyone here can confirm that the Ukrainian Bulats are actually being kept from the front lines to be used as force cohesive propaganda?

    I have heard rumors.


    1st Seperate Tank Brigade are the main tank assault unit of UA but they got badly hammered at Novosvetlovka last summer and ultimately failed at Donetsk airport. If we see them again it will probably be in a major ukrops assault either to the east or west of Gorlovka or on the Volnovakha front, or more likely as burnt wrecks on a battlefield somewhere between Krasnoarmeisk and Artemovsk in a few months time.
    I'm assuming that the VSU is doing the same thing with their T-84s then?
    To my knowledge ukrops only have one company of Oplot. I'm sure they would like to have cancelled the order of 40 or so to Thailand and taken them, but Thailand is not Congo so the order went thro. Whether ukrops will use their Oplot I couldn't say, but as the best tank in Ukraine used by either side perhaps they could used them as a spearhead in critial operation, like protecting Poroshenko as he flees to airport when the end comes.....

    The T-80 ukrops have said they will return to service are to be used in company groups attached to VDV battalions, probably an error as mass use of 1st Tank Brigade Bulat's was initially very succesfull to break into Donetsk airport and then later to Lugansk airport and then the breakout operation to attempt to cut the M04 at Novosvetlovka.

    General point. I'm aware that days of tank armies charging into battle unsupported by infantry and artillery like at Prokhorovka are long past, but in this strange war with no airforces there is scope for bold hard tank attacks as in the old days, tho still needs support to hold the taken ground of course.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:46 pm

    Looks like we are in a ceasefire phase. No active combat. In Yemen we see all these Saudi tanks blown up to pieces by Houthis Kornet anti tank missiles. No such action in Donbas.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:02 pm

    Russia to supply Iskander ballistic missiles to murderous Saudi Arabian regime. If Russia supply Iskander ballistic missiles to Maidan then thousands of people in Donbas would be murdered by such weapons of mass destruction. Shocked

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/07/04/418758/Russia-Saudi-Arabia-Iskander-missile-Yemen

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  whir on Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:06 pm

    Yet another step for reconciliation in Odessa Rolling Eyes.

    zloy_odessit wrote:ДОМ ПРОФСОЮЗОВ ТАКИ СТАНЕТ ШТАБОМ ВМСУ!
    HOUSE OF TRADE UNIONS WILL STILL UKRAINIAN NAVY HEADQUARTERS!
    Jul. 5th, 2015 at 11:22 AM

    So, what does passing when he was head of the State Administration she said Igor Mace confirmed the current governor - Mikheil Saakashvili - namely, Ukrainian Navy Headquarters will be located at the notorious House of Trade Unions of Kulikovo. On assurances Saakashvili issues resolved and moving of staff in the House of trade unions is a matter of time. Continue reading.

    (The source is more than biased but I've not found the original)

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  2SPOOKY4U on Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:26 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia to supply Iskander ballistic missiles to murderous Saudi Arabian regime. If Russia supply Iskander ballistic missiles to Maidan then thousands of people in Donbas would be murdered by such weapons of mass destruction. Shocked

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/07/04/418758/Russia-Saudi-Arabia-Iskander-missile-Yemen


    Flagship, just calm down.


    I highly doubt that Saudi Arabia will buy them, they are a US vassal.


    And Russia supplying Maidan? With Iskander?



    How does that connect to Saudi Arabia?


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:54 pm

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:Flagship, just calm down.


    I highly doubt that Saudi Arabia will buy them, they are a US vassal.


    And Russia supplying Maidan? With Iskander?



    How does that connect to Saudi Arabia?


    It's true that Saudi Arabia is a US vassal. The only reason Saudi Arabia buying Iskanders is to provide samples of Iskander to the US. Nevertheless, Russia has been known to make silly mistakes like that, having supplied RPG-32 to US vassal Jordan. Syria's downfall is precisely because Russia cut arms support to Syria, having declared no arms to Syria until the situation stabilizes Rolling Eyes

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:19 pm

    5 Maidan soldiers KIA and 10 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:33 pm

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia to supply Iskander ballistic missiles to murderous Saudi Arabian regime. If Russia supply Iskander ballistic missiles to Maidan then thousands of people in Donbas would be murdered by such weapons of mass destruction. Shocked

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/07/04/418758/Russia-Saudi-Arabia-Iskander-missile-Yemen
    Flagship, just calm down.
    I highly doubt that Saudi Arabia will buy them, they are a US vassal.
    And Russia supplying Maidan? With Iskander?
    How does that connect to Saudi Arabia?

    Just put the 'hims' on your ignore list like I and most of us have. The child is going, or reality is has gone, off the deep end.


    Last edited by auslander on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:40 pm

    2SPOOKY4U wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:Russia to supply Iskander ballistic missiles to murderous Saudi Arabian regime. If Russia supply Iskander ballistic missiles to Maidan then thousands of people in Donbas would be murdered by such weapons of mass destruction. Shocked

    http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/07/04/418758/Russia-Saudi-Arabia-Iskander-missile-Yemen


    Flagship, just calm down.


    I highly doubt that Saudi Arabia will buy them, they are a US vassal.


    And Russia supplying Maidan? With Iskander?



    How does that connect to Saudi Arabia?

    Saudi Arabia is likely to buy a ton of Russan weaponry. Ranging from BMP-3s and T-90s to a few Iskanders. The reason for that is that the Saudis want to diversify their arm imports so they won't have to rely only on the US and Europe and the Saudis feel that the Americans can no longer help them as they once have. There is a lot of news about it already. I personally have no problem with the new cooperation between Russia and Saudi Arabia as it signals a shift in the relationship and puts aside their differences.

    It looks like Flagship has successfully baited you.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #17

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:50 pm

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Saudi Arabia is likely to buy a ton of Russan weaponry. Ranging from BMP-3s and T-90s to a few Iskanders. The reason for that is that the Saudis want to diversify their arm imports so they won't have to rely only on the US and Europe and the Saudis feel that the Americans can no longer help them as they once have. There is a  lot of news about it already. I personally have no problem with the new cooperation between Russia and Saudi Arabia as it signals a shift in the relationship and puts aside their differences.

    It looks like Flagship has successfully baited you.

    Why help Saudi Arabia instead of Syria? Considering its oil wealth, Saudi Arabia can never be pried from the western camp. Any aid to Saudi Arabia would turn neighboring Iran against Russia. Plus Saudi Arabia's Salafist ideology is not in Russia's interest. Saudi Arabia funds terrorism in Chechnya and Dagestan. If I were Putin I'd block any arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

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