Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Share

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:16 pm

    Latest news; Donetsk people's governor, Pavel Gubarev, has been abducted by the Ukrainian SBU and is now located 40km outside Kiev. Others were detained too.
    His wife quickly alerted the city that he was taken. Some Donetsk residents managed to mobilize quickly and surround the SBU building in Donetsk; the head there went out to speak to the locals and explained to them that Gubarev has already been taken to Kiev. Meanwhile some barricades were constructed around exits to the city, a bus was stormed that was thought to be carrying Gubarev, but in reality it was only holding some other detainees. A diversion maneuver.
    Another group of some 200 locals made for the airport in the hopes of heading off any air transport there. But as it's turned out, it appears that the guy was already transported.
    Unconfirmed reports state that the new Ukrainian government is forcing its employees in the regions to support and turn up at pro-Maidan rallies, under pain of being sacked from their jobs. Likewise, the oligarch Akhmetov, who owns factories in the Donbass/Donetsk region, is threatening his employees with being laid-off, if they plan any actions against the government.

    So now he's at the mercy of the illegitimate Ukrainian authorities. Wouldn't raise hopes for a Maidan-activist style amnesty for him.

    Someone in Donetsk even wrote to the UN human rights commission, or the EU human rights commission or something; to protect and free him.
    Well, it would make a nice joke at least.

    Oh yeah, in other news, apparently Yatsenyuk (self-appointed PM of the Ukraine), has now legalised the 'Pravyj Sektor' group as a legitimate armed formation.
    Oh, and yeah there's more - he fired a few generals who disagreed with him on this
    I can scarcely believe this BS, almost too surreal to be true.
    http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1026262

    More news: 3 days the Ukrainian envoy to the UN defended the Bandera movement's actions in WW2 at a session of the UN Security Council, claiming that charges against them were fabricated by the USSR.
    Guess he was trying to suck up to his new masters. Honestly I can't believe how quickly the people of the Ukraine have accepted these crazy assholes as their new leaders.
    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/721891


    Last edited by flamming_python on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:25 pm; edited 2 times in total

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Werewolf on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:23 pm

    I wouldn't give amnestie to anyone of this fascists in maidan.
    I would do it like Syria or Russia, use military surrounder the entire region where this scum is hiding, stop the flow in our out and wait untill they have no resources as foot anymore, whoever tries to attack military will be shot on sight and the majority will go after weeks without food and money of the west for their "demo" go and surrender to the military, jail everyone untill public order has been restored, police in their normal order and than start investigations, no amnestie. Amnestie only gives everyone the impression they can be as barbaric as they want to be without any consequences.

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:03 am

    EU stopped the visa negotiations with Russia.

    Good, it would have just made it easier for certain folks to flee Westward.

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:28 am

    TR1 wrote:EU stopped the visa negotiations with Russia.

    Good, it would have just made it easier for certain folks to flee Westward.

    Politics are very simple, they put sanctions or threaten you with sanctions and you know you have upper hand than counter them.

    No gas for EU, the prices will rise and in few countries their energy will collapse for at least 24 hours untill they negotiate about supply from abroad like germany had to do after our stupid regime merkel decided suddenly "nuclear power plants are not so safe" and bad for environment so shut them down immidiatley...to bad if your Physics diploma is worthless merkel, she haven't thought the entire thing out and several cities in germany had problems, without constant electricity supply, untill negotiated with france to get their supply of nuclear energy.

    So she shot down nuclear power plants because they are not safe and not so good for environment, just to buy french nuclear energy, our angie with the physics diploma.

    And such people are constantly elected by our retarded generation between 49-80+, because they don't do anything else but watch all day long ARD and ZDF government funded propaganda and cheering for politicians like Schäuble, the wheelchair charlie who is our finance minister who was bribed in late 90s with 100.000 DM from weapon smugglers, openly known but still became our finance minister. There is really only one thing i wish to say to this old pseudo-dead zombie pensioners who elect (select) over and over again the same thugs, that this generation should just die off for the good of the country.

    Regular
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1955
    Points : 1962
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Regular on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:18 am

    TR1 wrote:EU stopped the visa negotiations with Russia.

    Good, it would have just made it easier for certain folks to flee Westward.

    It's funny to hear that from expat. Thieves in London had no problems to leave Russia with pockets full of money.

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:28 am

    And if in Russia we ever get decent people in office, visa-free regime makes it veeeery easy for the old guard to "suddenly" leave.

    I have dual citizenship (US and Russian) so I could care less about what EU does visa wise.

    SOC
    Lieutenant
    Lieutenant

    Posts : 595
    Points : 650
    Join date : 2011-09-13
    Age : 38
    Location : Indianapolis

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  SOC on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:01 am

    Inquiry: has anything in the media been mentioned about one of the two Dergach PGGJMs? I believe 616 Samum is the one seen on 3 March berthed, but surprise surprise, 615 Bora is not in Sevastopol! I figure it might be outside Yevpatoria with Moskva, or taking part in the operations around Kerch, but haven't seen anything about it either way. All I know is that on 3 March it definitely was out and about somewhere.

    Regular
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1955
    Points : 1962
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Regular on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:10 am

    TR1 wrote:And if in Russia we ever get decent people in office, visa-free regime makes it veeeery easy for the old guard to "suddenly" leave.

    I have dual citizenship (US and Russian) so I could care less about what EU does visa wise.
    How lucky of You. Two powerful countries have Your back in case something happens abroad.
    In my derevnya dual citenship is no no, everyone is afraid of big bad jew, big bad ivan or sorosh yankie.

    calripson
    Junior Sergeant
    Junior Sergeant

    Posts : 129
    Points : 150
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    US Refuses to Recognize Crimean Referendum British Queen Refuses to Recognize US Declaration of Independence

    Post  calripson on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:35 am

    In other news Queen Elizabeth has refused to recognize America's Declaration of 1776 calling it "illegal", "separatism", and against international law.

    Werewolf
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5390
    Points : 5639
    Join date : 2012-10-24

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Werewolf on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:46 am

    calripson wrote:In other news Queen Elizabeth has refused to recognize America's Declaration of 1776 calling it "illegal", "separatism", and against international law.

    Royal incestous families were always little bit late with on goings.


    BTW you are not kidding?

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:31 am

    Regular wrote:
    TR1 wrote:And if in Russia we ever get decent people in office, visa-free regime makes it veeeery easy for the old guard to "suddenly" leave.

    I have dual citizenship (US and Russian) so I could care less about what EU does visa wise.
    How lucky of You. Two powerful countries have Your back in case something happens abroad.
    In my derevnya dual citenship is no no, everyone is afraid of big bad jew, big bad ivan or sorosh yankie.

    Exactly.

    All I need is Chinese citizenship, and I will have a trifecta of STRONGGG1111!!!!.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5664
    Points : 6070
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:33 am

    TR1 wrote:
    Regular wrote:
    TR1 wrote:And if in Russia we ever get decent people in office, visa-free regime makes it veeeery easy for the old guard to "suddenly" leave.

    I have dual citizenship (US and Russian) so I could care less about what EU does visa wise.
    How lucky of You. Two powerful countries have Your back in case something happens abroad.
    In my derevnya dual citenship is no no, everyone is afraid of big bad jew, big bad ivan or sorosh yankie.

    Exactly.

    All I need is Chinese citizenship, and I will have a trifecta of STRONGGG1111!!!!.

    You need to marry a Chinese Girl for that  Laughing

    Samar Rathi
    Private
    Private

    Posts : 2
    Points : 4
    Join date : 2014-03-07
    Location : India

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Samar Rathi on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:17 am

    India seems to be supportive of Russia.

    NEW DELHI: India believes Russia has "legitimate interests" in Ukraine — a position that is opposed to the stand of the West on the latest crisis. Interestingly, China has opposed Russia's intervention in Crimea, deviating from a long-standing support to Moscow in the UN Security Council.

    A statement by MEA on Thursday said India is "concerned at the subsequent escalation of tension, especially in view of the presence of more than 5000 Indian nationals, including about 4000 students, in different parts of Ukraine". However, when questioned, national security adviser Shivshankar Menon said, "There are legitimate Russian and other interests involved and we hope they are discussed and resolved."

    However, the MEA papered over the NSA's comment, calling "for a legitimate democratic process to find full expression through free and fair elections that provide for an inclusive society." "India calls for sincere and sustained diplomatic efforts to ensure that issues between Ukraine and its neighbouring countries are resolved through constructive dialogue," said the statement.

    India has been reluctant to criticize Russia in international forums, going back to its invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 when New Delhi refused to criticize Moscow.

    While China supported Russia on issues like Syria and Libya, it also called for respecting the sovereignty of these countries. Chinese President Xi Jinping was quoted last week by the official Chinese media as he weighed in on the Ukraine issue. Xi said, "At present, the situation in Ukraine is highly complicated and sensitive and has regional and global impact." Xi told Putin, "China believes that Russia can coordinate with other parties to push for the political settlement of the issue so as to safeguard regional and world peace and stability. China supports proposals and mediation efforts of the international community that are conducive to reduction of tension."

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5664
    Points : 6070
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:29 am

    Chinese did not oppose the intervention but its more supportive of Russias view or stance.

    India supporting Russias interest be kept in mind is also encouraging.

    magnumcromagnon
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 4468
    Points : 4659
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:37 am

    TR1 wrote:EU stopped the visa negotiations with Russia.

    Good, it would have just made it easier for certain folks to flee Westward.

    LMAO this is too rich, all the Oligarchs who looted the Russian economy and placed their assets in off shore accounts are getting stabbed in the back by their close friends in the west...Karma is a real bitch lol! The Oligarchs will have no choice but to reinvest their offshore account wealth back in to Russia.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5664
    Points : 6070
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:51 am

    Henry A. Kissinger : How the Ukraine crisis ends

    Leaders of all sides should return to examining outcomes, not compete in posturing. Here is my notion of an outcome compatible with the values and security interests of all sides:

    1. Ukraine should have the right to choose freely its economic and political associations, including with Europe.

    2. Ukraine should not join NATO, a position I took seven years ago, when it last came up.

    3. Ukraine should be free to create any government compatible with the expressed will of its people. Wise Ukrainian leaders would then opt for a policy of reconciliation between the various parts of their country. Internationally, they should pursue a posture comparable to that of Finland. That nation leaves no doubt about its fierce independence and cooperates with the West in most fields but carefully avoids institutional hostility toward Russia.

    4. It is incompatible with the rules of the existing world order for Russia to annex Crimea. But it should be possible to put Crimea’s relationship to Ukraine on a less fraught basis. To that end, Russia would recognize Ukraine’s sovereignty over Crimea. Ukraine should reinforce Crimea’s autonomy in elections held in the presence of international observers. The process would include removing any ambiguities about the status of the Black Sea Fleet at Sevastopol.

    These are principles, not prescriptions. People familiar with the region will know that not all of them will be palatable to all parties. The test is not absolute satisfaction but balanced dissatisfaction. If some solution based on these or comparable elements is not achieved, the drift toward confrontation will accelerate. The time for that will come soon enough.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5664
    Points : 6070
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:51 am

    Fareed Zakaria is now Toning down his rhetoric , talks of Russian interest too

    Zakaria: Sanctions against Russia are just symbolic

    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:44 am

    The Chinese wairy of Russia? Uhh, wasn't it China who denounced West over Ukraine? Anyway, that wont stop business. seems as well, EU isn't that interested either in heavy economic sanctions.

    Regardless, this may end up being far better for China than any other country. China will broker a better deal with Russia over energy due to possible loss from Europe, and that China may be far inclined to replace EU in investments in Russia as they could gain a lot from Russian enterprises who have strong hold in CIS countries. As well, Russia may be far more interested in acquiring bonds from China in replacement of US bonds. Of course, this will be a strain on Russian economy at first, but after a couple of years, it could pay off far more.

    That, and they may just say screw it and deal with countries whom are already under sanctions from USA.

    Has China denounced Russia over this?

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:52 am

    http://lenta.ru/news/2014/03/07/canada/

    Canada bravely shows the Russians by booting all 9 Russian military personnel in Canada. They were learning/teaching languages.


    sepheronx
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 7302
    Points : 7612
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 27
    Location : Canada

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  sepheronx on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:54 am

    Oh man, we sure showed them Russians....

    Harper is a raging idiot.

    flamming_python
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 3182
    Points : 3310
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:05 am

    Quite like the comments over at http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/russian-soldiers-training-in-canada-given-24-hours-to-leave-country-1.1717172

    One has to be skeptical about leaders who are are trying to be more American than the Americans. I mean just what does Canada have to do with the Ukraine or Russia anyway? It's as funny as seeing Australia kicking up a scene (which it's doing too AFAIK).
    Just a way to score some cheapo points among their population of Ukrainian-origin russophobes.

    GarryB
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 15458
    Points : 16165
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:16 am

    Don't be too worried about what China says about this... they don't want to set any precedents that could be used against them... if they support Crimean independence from the Ukraine and unification with Russia then what happens if Tibet has a referendum and decides to join with Nepal or India.... or anyone but China? Equally what if Taiwan decides to have a referendum?


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    Regular
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 1955
    Points : 1962
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Western Hemisphere.. mostly

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Regular on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:16 am


    It seems gopniks from Russian self defence want to provoke conflict between Russian soldiers and Ukrainian marines. They even act like maidanuts, by blood they might be Russian, but mentality is hohol. Maybe Russian soldiers should kick their asses as their life is put on danger by these idiots.  There is no need for any more provocations.

    Austin
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5664
    Points : 6070
    Join date : 2010-05-08
    Age : 40
    Location : India

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:04 am

    Jarred by US 'top ten lies' list, Russia fires back

    Russia:  Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs was not amused by the unorthodox statement from the State Department under the title "President Putin's Fiction: 10 False Claims About Ukraine," which purported to rebut a series of assertions by Vladimir Putin in the eye-catching format of a top-10 list.

    The Foreign Ministry's own statements have an ornate formal tone, garnished with thick irony and rhetorical flourishes, and this casual treatment of the Russian president's words in the State Department list, released Wednesday, must have been jarring.

    A ministry spokesman, Alexander K. Lukashevich, provided an angry five-paragraph response on Thursday afternoon, calling the list "shocking, not as much for its primitive distortion of reality as its cynicism and overt 'double standards.'"

    "The State Department is trying to play on a shamelessly one-sided interpretation of events, as if there was not plentiful evidence of atrocities committed by radical nationalists, including the massacre of inconvenient people captured on video cameras, or the murder by provocateur snipers," the statement said, adding that "we will not stoop to debate with low-grade propaganda."

    It went on to catalogue nine past interventions by the United States and NATO, stretching from the 1958 invasion of Lebanon to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, making the case that Washington "doesn't and can't have the moral right to lecture us about compliance of international norms."

    Detailed and grisly descriptions of past U.S. interventions, nearly every one deeply unpopular with Soviet and Russian people, have become a dominant theme in Russian reporting on Ukraine and its Russian-populated Crimean Peninsula.

    "Nevertheless, they dare to reproach Russia for 'armed aggression' when she stands up for her countrymen, who constitute the majority of the Crimean people, so as to prevent ultranationalist forces from arranging another bloody 'Maidan,'" the statement continued, referring to the mayhem last month in Independence Square, or Maidan, in Kiev, the Ukrainian capital.

    The statement concluded with observations on the United States that could have easily come from a psychoanalyst - not unlike any number of recent Western commentaries on Putin.

    "They cannot get over it, and come to terms with the fact that they cannot always dictate their will and act in their customary role of 'infallible judge,' which is followed by - the last word," it said. "Their nerves are giving out, but that is no reason to thrust guilt on the innocent."

    TR1
    Colonel
    Colonel

    Posts : 5840
    Points : 5892
    Join date : 2011-12-06

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:09 am

    As much as you can criticize Russia's conduct here, they do have a point.

    At the end of the day, the US deserves a nice jug of "Shut the fuck up" when it comes to complaining about sovereignty violations of other nations.

    Sponsored content

    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #2

    Post  Sponsored content Today at 11:14 am


      Current date/time is Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:14 am