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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

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    arpakola
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:33 pm


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:34 pm

    I was thinking that Russia needs to urgently build very large Observation towers of reinforced strong steel , just ~50m away of the Ukraine Border guards check points. The Towers needs to have some basic resistance to rocket grenades and regular mortal shelling and its altitude have to be like 10 -20 floors of a normal building. The observation tower will only carry advanced cameras to film what happens across the border all the way 20km -30km away and the goal have to be to fully know exactly where the kiev national guard artillery is deployed and if any is used to attack Russia.   Contrary to planes the towers can film 24 hours non stop.. and if any artillery again is used against Russia , then Russia can retaliate an attack the source from where the attack came.  Im really sure the Western Neocon Thugs will again order their neonazi minions in ukraine border to provoke another attack..  Of course Russia needs to warn kiev that it reserve the right to retaliate any artillery deployed in eastern ukraine that is used to attack Russia and that they will fully monitor and film on camera everything so no doubts remain of what happened.

    Another perhaps more cheap alternative will some kind of "weather" ballon equipped with very powerful cameras to even see at night and track infra red signals . The ballon needs to have basic bullet proof defense and be deployed at  enough altitude to see what happens 30km-40km across the ukraine border.  I just hate incompetence of Putin of allowing their nation to be attacked and not providing defenses ,when he could have done it..and not having observation points to fully know what happened and who did what.  No civilians were killed only by luck in the previous attack , but people should have been fired from their jobs for not defending Russian territory. and not having any strategy to monitor what happens near their border..


    Last edited by Vann7 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

    arpakola
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    Donetsk airport is being stormed right now .

    Post  arpakola on Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:40 pm

    Donetsk airport is being stormed right now .

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:48 pm



    Is there a cease of fire in place? or not yet? Who is attacking the airport and what the Steel man says
    in previous video?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:46 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Is there a cease of fire in place? or not yet? Who is attacking the airport and what the Steel man says
    in previous video?

    Steel says <if help doesnt come soon .. game is over ..>

    ========================================
    In the vicinity Sloviansk July 3 missile systems of salvo fire "Smerch" destroyed several aartment buildings. Rockets RZSO "Smerch" have the caliber artment buildings





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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  arpakola on Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:03 pm

    Donbass mortars ..


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:14 pm

    Vann7 wrote:I was thinking that Russia needs to urgently build very large Observation towers of reinforced strong steel , just ~50m away of the Ukraine Border guards check points. The Towers needs to have some basic resistance to rocket grenades and regular mortal shelling and its altitude have to be like 10 -20 floors of a normal building. The observation tower will only carry advanced cameras to film what happens across the border all the way 20km -30km away and the goal have to be to fully know exactly where the kiev national guard artillery is deployed and if any is used to attack Russia.   Contrary to planes the towers can film 24 hours non stop.. and if any artillery again is used against Russia , then Russia can retaliate an attack the source from where the attack came.  Im really sure the Western Neocon Thugs will again order their neonazi minions in ukraine border to provoke another attack..  Of course Russia needs to warn kiev that it reserve the right to retaliate any artillery deployed in eastern ukraine that is used to attack Russia and that they will fully monitor and film on camera everything so no doubts remain of what happened.

    Another perhaps more cheap alternative will some kind of "weather" ballon equipped with very powerful cameras to even see at night and track infra red signals . The ballon needs to have basic bullet proof defense and be deployed at  enough altitude to see what happens 30km-40km across the ukraine border.  I just hate incompetence of Putin of allowing their nation to be attacked and not providing defenses ,when he could have done it..and not having observation points to fully know what happened and who did what.  No civilians were killed only by luck in the previous attack , but people should have been fired from their jobs for not defending Russian territory. and not having any strategy to monitor what happens near their border..
    Russia has advanced counter battery radars that could pinpoint excact position of artillery as soon as shell reaches zenith. Ground radars can even detect people.. Visual observation is good for damage control. To check what You hit and correct the fire. And I would ratier usd small to medium drones here. You can get them up in the air in minutes. Those towers You've mentioned would be good with weaponry mounted on them. Kornet quad container and AGS would keep small group of unwanted guests from getting close. But if we take into account size of ru-ukr border and terrain.. It would cost too much.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  etaepsilonk on Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:39 pm

    Found this on mp.net.
    Some folks shot policemen in Donetsk:

    At 0:33 you can see one dude's gun profile, although blurred.
    Could you help me with identifying it? It does look somewhat similar to PM-63 Rak.

    http://world.guns.ru/smg/pl/pm-63-e.html

    Any other suggestions?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:56 pm

    It looks like You are right.
    http://world.guns.ru/smg/rus/cp-2-ling-e.html
    Closest to it could be this baby, but handgrip is not the same.
    Plus RAK is black market weapon and You could even get this in Lithuania or in any WARPAC country.
    By the way I don't have too much love for Road police, but RIP anyways.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:05 pm

    Took like 3-4 days since i predicted another attack will happen..and it did.. Russian territory attacked again by artillery.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/739077

    Journalist escaped by miracle , the attack happened apparently near the refugees. And Russian borderguards apparently arrested someone who looked like an spotter to the Kiev national guard artillery attacks. Is clearly Obvious the white house is desperate to get Russia invade Ukraine. That they are now directly telling their puppet neonazis to target Russia directly. This is why i believe if Russia is forced to invade ,they need to warn US with a direct war against them if they supply weapons to Ukraine. Because if not Russia could end fighting decades in Ukraine while US and NATO allies smuggle mercenaries with weapons to fight them.

    On better news looks like Syria finally took control of Alepo city or most of it. and terrorist rebels are just weeks away to be totally wiped across Syria .surrenders in the hundreds almost  every couple of days.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:23 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:09 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Took like 3-4 days since i predicted another attack will happen..and it did.. Russian territory attacked again by artillery.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/739077

    Journalist escaped by miracle , the attack happened apparently near the refugees. And Russian borderguards arrested someone who looked like an spotter to the Kiev national guard artillery attacks. Is clearly Obvious the white house is desperate to get Russia invade Ukraine. That they are now directly targeting Russia. This is why i believe if
    Russia is forced to invade ,they need to warn US with a direct war against them if they supply weapons to Ukraine.Because if not Russia could end fighting decades in Ukraine while US and NATO allies smuggle mercenaries to fight them.

    Russia has shitloads of UAVs in the border. Put them in the air. Record UKR artillery fire like it was done before. Show the damage on Russian land. Use airstrikes to destroy Ukrainian artillery sites. Israeli style. 
    You could even bomb the shit out of UA army even without leaving Russian airspace. Glide bombing.
    Now I fully understand IDF and their response to shelling. I only wish Russia will act same way.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:15 pm


    Russia has shitloads of UAVs in the border. Put the in the air. Record UKR artillery fire like it was done before. Show the damage on Russian land. Use airstrikes to destroy Ukrainian artillery sites. Israeli style. 
    It's not invasion. You could even bomb the shit out of UA army even without leaving Russian airspace. Glide bombing

    Thats correct. There is tons of options But the Clown in moscow , MR putin is an incompetent , and do NOTHING to protect even their own side..what the fukk he is waiting for civilians refugees to die in their own side to understand they are being directly attacked by the Ultra nationals in Kiev army?  People needs to be fired at very least for allowing such artillery attacks to happen and go unpunished.  In other news Putins congratulates Obama in his independence day.  Rolling Eyes

    This is why i believe Russia needs 24 hours very high Towers Observations points with cameras filming who does what with artillery.  So that they can directly hit the terrorist attacking Russian refugees . There is a very small possibility it could be the same rebels to try to push Russia to invade but i doubt it .. you only need to look at how indiscriminately they use chemical weapons in eastern ukraine to burn civilians alive and do not allow them to leave cities.

    Update..
    125 Ukrainian servicemen killed in combat operations in Luhansk region since July 2
    Also about 13 armored vehicles/tanks/artillery units destroyed and 3 combat planes since the end of the
    cease of fire.

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/739078




    IF Putin really wants to avoid using its army ,he at the very least needs to protect his own side , deploy hundreds of UN observers in their side near refugees and near their border guard points. So that kiev will be under International comdenation for first time for its military operations. So far Russia have failed to get international condenation on kiev for its criminal war.Either for attacking civilians eastern ukraine or attacking civilians in Russian territory. Whatever Russia do ,i can't believe nothing is being done or reported of concrete actions to protect their border guards and refugees in Rostov territory.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  etaepsilonk on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:39 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    This is why i believe Russia needs 24 hours very high Towers Observations points with cameras filming who does what with artillery.

    Watchtowers can be destroyed very quickly if needed.
    Before operation barbarossa soviets also built quite a few tall observation towers.
    But germans calculated ranges and trajectories carefully, and right at the start of the war were pretty much one-shotting them with arty and all towers were gone very quickly.

    ---------------

    Regular wrote:It looks like You are right.
    http://world.guns.ru/smg/rus/cp-2-ling-e.html
    Closest to it could be this baby, but handgrip is not the same.
    Plus RAK is black market weapon and You could even get this in Lithuania or in any WARPAC country.
    By the way I don't have too much love for Road police, but RIP anyways.

    I think there are even more differences, besides, veresk is a spetsnaz weapon with super expensive ammo Smile

    What interests me in this case is the motive. Guys have SMG and, appearantly, a pistol, pretty compact weapons, and inexpensive too. Maybe some pravoseks shooting to sow panic?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:56 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:

    Watchtowers can be destroyed very quickly if needed.
    Before operation barbarossa soviets also built quite a few tall observation towers.
    But germans calculated ranges and trajectories carefully, and right at the start of the war were pretty much one-shotting them with arty and all towers were gone very quickly.

    But  drones can be quickly attacked too..
    And that will be completely illegal ,it will be an attack of Ukraine on Russia territory.. don't you think?
    A cheap watchtower will not cost anything to build and it will be perfectly legitimate for Russia to build whatever
    they please on their territory.  IF kiev fighters attack the watchtower instead of civilians then it will be worth of it.
    much better than having them bombing civilians zones. Russia will have a legitimate reason to complain to kiev without civilians having to die for that.. And if they continue attacking observation post ,then Russia retaliate.. see?
    This are very simple things that Russia can do ,withing a day or two and save lives... or at least try.

    Unless you think is better idea to just wait civilians refugees die in an artillery attack . Creating several steel frame high elevation observation post that can observe up to 30 km inside Ukraine territory will allow Russia to know when ,where and how and who is attacking Russian border. and also will get the attention of the criminals knowing that their actions are being recorded.it will also allow Russia to retaliate with precision to the exact place the attack while at the same time recording everything on camera..

    What will be incredibly stupid ,incredible retarded , is that Russia wait for another attack to happen as it will,
    have civilians killed ,then briefly send attack helicopters to investigate who attacked them and later have their hellicopters shot down . What im suggesting is a pro-active defense.. not a reactive one. to be ready for the next attack and track who is doing that. and be ready to retaliate .

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  medo on Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:27 pm

    Russia doesn't need to send army in Ukraine, but they have to send weapons to Novorussian forces and volunteers. They could easily take 100.000 AKs from old soviet stocks, RPGs, ATGMs, MANPADs, mortars, SPG-9 guns as well as retired artillery guns to equip real Novorussian army. Ukraine have practically all working equipment in the east now and large majority of their armed forces, so not much reserves to send there. With arming 100.000 strong infantry army is strong enough to destroy Ukrainian army in the east and than the road to Kiev is open. Putin have to say "**** the EU and **** the US" and start sending weapons, ammo and volunteers in Novorussia. Few thousand rebels keep positions for 4 days against full power of Ukrainian army. Ukraine doesn't have much left to send to the east to change situation, but arming 50.000 novorussian soldiers will change situation on the front.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Viktor on Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:20 pm

    Nice  thumbsup 

    Russia to terminate free trade agreement with Ukraine following EU association pact

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:52 am

    Viktor wrote:Nice  thumbsup 

    Russia to terminate free trade agreement with Ukraine following EU association pact

    Good..

    Good.

    Some people here are thinking tactically. But it pays to think strategically. After this FTA is cancelled and trade tarrifs are raised, the Ukrainian economy bye-bye

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:39 am

    I just hope Girkin manages to survive this. People like him are only born once in hundred years. It might sound stupid, I can't find good words in english, but he is like out of book Russian imperial general. He looks like he has finest qualities of a that era. 
    Hey, if we talked about Vanga, maybe Strelkov is reincarnation of Greatest Russian Generalissimo Suvorov ?  pirat 


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:45 am

    Is this so called "cease fire" yet another ruse for the NATO/Pentagon puppet Porkyshenko?




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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Regular on Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:09 am

    Slovensk have fallen.
    Ukrainian flag will be hoisted soon.
    Rebels and some civies left the city.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  medo on Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:44 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqJtZ7SuPRo

    This info is quite interesting and show, that Ukrainian army doesn't have such superiority against Novorussia forces, only in artillery. All Novorussian units count around 12.000 soldiers, what is practically whole infantry division and in Lugansk they have at least 1 armored battalion. Ukrainian forces count 28.000 soldiers, what is little more than 2:1 relation, but less than 3:1 ideal for attacking force. Only in the side of Slavyansk there is a relation 5:1 for Ukrainian army, but in Lugansk it is practically 1:1.

    It is wise to leave Slavyansk to better concentrate defending lines against so powerful enemy, but Lugansk units will have to act more actively and attack Ukrainian artillery from the sides and from the back to destroy it. Their armor battalion with T-64 tanks, BMP-s IFVs and BTRs have to be used for quick moves to outmaneuver Ukrainian units and to attack Ukrainian artillery either to destroy it, either to capture artillery batteries for counter fire on Ukrainian positions. I think there is a problem, that they still don't have one common command structure.

    Russian have to send at least 20.000 guns and volunteers and the situation on the front will be much different. Additional 20.000 soldiers would be enough to start encircling Ukrainian units and destroying them. With destroying Ukrainian army here, Ukrainian army will loose majority of their armor and artillery units. With destroying of their army, Kiev will be more than willing to negotiate.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:29 pm

    medo wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqJtZ7SuPRo



    It is wise to leave Slavyansk to better concentrate defending lines against so powerful enemy, Ukrainian army will loose majority of their armor and artillery units. With destroying of their army, Kiev will be more than willing to negotiate.

    Thats correct.. In World war 2.. German forces forced soviet to retreat all the way to the capital. and we know how it ended. In Syria war it was same ,the first 2 years the rebels took control of 60% of Syria ,but once they began to overstretch and expand across all Syria they capabilities significantly decreased and were wiped. Now Syria government controls about 90% of all Syria. I don't think the war in Ukraine have any end on sight.. even if kiev manage to push the Rebels from Donetsk they will be losing valuable units and artillery . Also they are not going to earn the hearts of Novorossiya people by using its army to control the east. It means that regardless if Kiev take control all eastern Ukraine, they sooner or later will have to leave ,because they are not welcome there ,and their experience will be like the same of an Invading army.. Once kiev have all their tanks spread deep inside in all cities ,one by one they will be ambushed by civilians.  Is when the real fight will began..  Lets not forget that NATO invaded IRAQ and even though they won all battles ,they failed in the end to get support from local population and have to leave . Kiev will NOT have the economy to maintain an army for more than 1 year in eastern Ukraine ,trying to maintain control.. on top that the army is not paid.. i predict major split of the army when ukraine economy collapse. or after the army is not paid in 3-5 months and civilians in other cities jobless.  Simply Ukraine will collapse is not IF ..but when.. Neither US or EU will manage to pay the bills of Kiev and maintain their expenses. To have a Country is like a business , if no longer works and you can't pay your employees ,they will leave and in the case of a nation it will disband in pieces.  I do forsee a total split of all eastern and south Ukraine
    from kiev ,when kiev economy default. No police or army will work for a nation or a flag ,if cannot feed their own family.

    Now that Ukraine joining the EU ,Russia should offer zero discounts to kiev in Gas ,ask only the previous agreed price under timoshenko of $485 per 1000 Bcm. The baltic states for example have to pay $500. and no Gas until they pay all their debts and all gas prepaid in advance. It will be interesting to see US and EU paying Russia for Ukraine gas and at near $500 per 1000bcm prices.  In another crosstalk in RT it was told ,that the only product that Ukraine will be selling to the EU under the agreemed,that was allowed to sell was Eggs.  Laughing 

    So Ukraine will lose 90% of their economy trade with CIS ..for a 3% of trade with the EU..  Wink 
    Vast majority of Ukraine industries that export will close operations ,so all economic experts do not understand
    the suicide move of Poroshenko.  Many speculate that the plan was not about Ukraine economy.. but about Russia economy. That the goal was to get Russia to invade and give them another afghan war.  And drag Russian economy with Ukraine one.. if for example Russia is forced to anex Novorossiya as they did with crimea their economy will suffer.

    In the long run ,i think Russia will win. Ukraine will cease to exist as a nation and will disband and most of its citizens will see Russia as their only hope ,and Russia will get an influx of 10 to 25 millions orthodox christians  in the next decade that will truly help Boost Russia society , to counter the muslin expansion in southern russia but also a major boost for their talent. Russia will be very rich with their new Asia energy expansion and in the not far future they will be able to integrate all Ukrainians friendly to Russia ,into Russia society. Also Russia will receive a major influx of very talented students and professionals in maths and sciences ,scientist and engineers. So things looks bad now , and possibly the Rebels lose the war and most escape to Russia,but still Ukraine will collapse in the end and divide without Russia moving a finger. And Russia will end as the big winner.

    So the best way to see Ukraine conflict is in the medium and long term. you will see celebrations here and there..
    With fireworks here and there ,the take over of cities ,Ukraine flags raised and people cheering and possibly rebels defeated. But in less than 5 years ,~2-4 years, all those loyal to kiev ,will open their eyes and realize that what they were really doing is fighting for nothing , to keep the control of a sinking ship that is Ukraine. And they will regret their actions and see they wasted so many lives and time. Ukraine will disband and this is without Russia moving a finger. And even the self called nazis ,when no longer financed ,will wish Russia to take them back. Marks my words in just a couple or more years things will look very different for the pro EU fanatics and they will feel totally deceived ,when they discover their streets did not turned in to gold and their quality of life is far worse since they joined the association trade with EU.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  etaepsilonk on Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:01 pm

    It's good to save lives, but loss of Slaviansk is still a serious setback.


    ------------------------
    In the battle of Novoselovka-1, Donetsk region, killed seven security forces, 6 injured - Press Center ATO

    Loss of the antiterrorist operation in the battle near the village Novoselovka-1 were 7 killed, 6 more wounded soldiers

    Reported the press-center of ATO on Saturday, July 5, in the morning on his page in Fasebook.

    "As a result of the battle near the settlement Novoselovka 1-7 Ukrainian servicemen killed and 6 injured", - stated in the press center of the ATO.
    http://www.segodnya.ua/hot/zahvat-zdaniy-v-khar/v-boyu-pod-novoselovkoy-1-doneckoy-oblasti-pogibli-7-silovikov-6-raneny-press-centr-ato--534140.html


    ----------------------
    Vann7 wrote:
    etaepsilonk wrote:

    Watchtowers can be destroyed very quickly if needed.
    Before operation barbarossa soviets also built quite a few tall observation towers.
    But germans calculated ranges and trajectories carefully, and right at the start of the war were pretty much one-shotting them with arty and all towers were gone very quickly.

    But drones can be quickly attacked too..
    And that will be completely illegal ,it will be an attack of Ukraine on Russia territory.. don't you think?
    A cheap watchtower will not cost anything to build and it will be perfectly legitimate for Russia to build whatever
    they please on their territory. IF kiev fighters attack the watchtower instead of civilians then it will be worth of it.
    much better than having them bombing civilians zones. Russia will have a legitimate reason to complain to kiev without civilians having to die for that.. And if they continue attacking observation post ,then Russia retaliate.. see?

    1. Drones are NOT easy to destroy even with up to date AA, which Ukraine doesn't have many.

    2. Depending on height and installed equipment, watchtowers are not that cheap.

    3. Kiev fighters can attack a watchtower AND civilians simultaneously, so it may not be that worth it.

    4. Russia already has a justification for retaliation even without having any damned towers Rolling Eyes

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:31 pm

    etaepsilonk wrote:
    1. Drones are NOT easy to destroy even with up to date AA, which Ukraine doesn't have many.

    2. Depending on height and installed equipment, watchtowers are not that cheap.

    3. Kiev fighters can attack a watchtower AND civilians simultaneously, so it may not be that worth it.

    4. Russia already has a justification for retaliation even without having any damned towers  Rolling Eyes


    Drones can be shotdown easily.. if Talibans shot down 400 in afganistan in 10 years,i do not see how can Ukraine army cannot do it.  Rolling Eyes 

    Watch towers can be millions of times cheaper than a drone ,just a piece of large metal with a camera on top ,how hard that is? are you fucking kidding that Russia should be scared in his own territory to deploy cameras on border to enhance their nation security ,because they could be attacked? Please better don't argue with silly arguments next time.  If Russia deploy small Cameras to observe 30 km inside Ukraine ,and they shot , that can only be done with a sniper rifle at distance and Russian border guards will catch who do it.. To defeat a watchtower with artillery at 20 to 30km is wishful thinking for them with the fail accuracy  they have shown in eastern ukraine.  But even if they could do it with their artillery and Ukraine army shoot at the cameras ,every day ,then Russia will not have to wait anymore to understand that kiev have declared war on them. and Russia will be on its FULL legitimacy rights under international laws to retaliate and kick the kiev army that is attacking its borders and declare a buffer zone for its protection.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

    Post  macedonian on Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:57 pm

    Hello guys,
    I've been off for a week.
    So without me having to go through the crap about Vangja and Mars landings, can anyone PLEASE tell me if we're winning or losing?
    Thanks,

    M

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