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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

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    KoTeMoRe
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:58 am

    Flagship Victory wrote:I can name 5 foreign policy failures on Russia's part.

    1. failure to back client Gaddafi in 2011

    2. failture to back client Assad in 2011

    3. failture to stop Euro Maidan in 2013

    4. absorbing Crimea in 2014 therefore made Ukrainians hate Russia forever

    5. failure to back NAF resistance in Donbas, Kharkov, Odessa

    Gaddafi was a Russian Client? When? With his money stashed in Western Banks? Lol, Gaddafi, ironically was killed by the same guy he propped up to win the presidential race in France. Sarkozy...France, the UK and the US were gunning for his head. If Russia got away with helping its own in Ukraine, what makes you think the US would have stopped if vetoed. This was a Arab Spring kind of thing. Basically with the "Coalition of the Willing" V. 2.0 there were no brakes available to the kill train.

    For the rest, you're out of your depth. The world isn't about jaw jaw...

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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #1

    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:05 am

    Very intensive bombardments all night long in Donetsk, it seems the orcs are just as desperate as ever to goad NAF in to attacking. As usual infrastructure, civilian living areas, shops and factories were again hit plus the debris in and around aerodrome was stirred up again. Reports on civilian casualties are incomplete but we did have at least some wounded.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:45 am

    I've really got to start taking lessons from OSCE on creative writing. Just read part of their report from 17 July, apparently promulgated in the early evening of that day. Here's an excerpt:

    "The level of violence at and around the destroyed “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”)-controlled airport (12km north-west of Donetsk) continued to decrease as already observed during previous days. Positioned at the “DPR”-controlled central railway station (8km north-west of Donetsk) between 08:00 and 15:22hrs, the SMM heard 20 explosions, out of which 13 were consistent with mortar rounds (82mm and 120mm) incoming, while seven were undetermined, at locations ranging from 1 to 5.6km and from the north-north-east to the west of the SMM’s position. The SMM concluded that this was the lowest number of observed explosions during this week. The rounds were followed by exchanges of small-arms fire, at locations 1-6km west, north-west and north-east of the SMM’s position.[1]

    Positioned at its observation point on the eastern outskirts of Berdianske (government-controlled, 1.5km west of Shyrokyne, 18.5km east of Mariupol), the SMM did not observe any ceasefire violations in the area during the day. The SMM visited Shyrokyne (20km east of Mariupol) and did not observe any ceasefire violations. The SMM noted that crates of small-arms ammunition and rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) seen during its last visit to Shyrokyne on 12 July, were no longer there. The SMM discovered full boxes of anti-personnel mines."

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:12 am

    "Hold on, Novorossiya"

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:24 am

    auslander wrote:I've really got to start taking lessons from OSCE on creative writing. Just read part of their report from 17 July, apparently promulgated in the early evening of that day. Here's an excerpt:

    "The level of violence at and around the destroyed “Donetsk People’s Republic” (“DPR”)-controlled airport (12km north-west of Donetsk) continued to decrease as already observed during previous days. Positioned at the “DPR”-controlled central railway station (8km north-west of Donetsk) between 08:00 and 15:22hrs, the SMM heard 20 explosions, out of which 13 were consistent with mortar rounds (82mm and 120mm) incoming, while seven were undetermined, at locations ranging from 1 to 5.6km and from the north-north-east to the west of the SMM’s position. The SMM concluded that this was the lowest number of observed explosions during this week. The rounds were followed by exchanges of small-arms fire, at locations 1-6km west, north-west and north-east of the SMM’s position.[1]  

    Positioned at its observation point on the eastern outskirts of Berdianske (government-controlled, 1.5km west of Shyrokyne, 18.5km east of Mariupol), the SMM did not observe any ceasefire violations in the area during the day. The SMM visited Shyrokyne (20km east of Mariupol) and did not observe any ceasefire violations. The SMM noted that crates of small-arms ammunition and rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) seen during its last visit to Shyrokyne on 12 July, were no longer there. The SMM discovered full boxes of anti-personnel mines."
    I asked you earlier but I think it got buried in all the replies in the old thread.

    Since you are the closest to all the excitement going on right now and your predictions have been pretty accurate, how do you think the current situation regarding the infighting among the Ukrops and their increased bombing of Donetsk will play out over the next several days?

    Oh, and has there been anything different or unusual back on Krim regarding the tense situation in Banderastan?

    Khepesh, I would gladly like to hear what you think as well.


    Last edited by Ivan the Colorado on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Small addition)

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  whir on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:29 am

    Taras Bulba wrote:ATO in Transcarpathia !?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:40 am

    whir wrote:
    Taras Bulba wrote:ATO in Transcarpathia !?
    Really reminiscent of when the National Guard rolled into Kramatorsk a little more than a year ago. Here is hoping that the local Right Sector units there has at least half the balls of the rebels that held Slavyansk and Kramatorsk too.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  whir on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:46 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Really reminiscent of when the National Guard rolled into Kramatorsk a little more than a year ago. Here is hoping that the local Right Sector units there has at least half the balls of the rebels that held  Slavyansk and Kramatorsk too.
    We have yet to see contact with angry locals, things can get ugly very fast even without armed people on the streets as we saw last year.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  whir on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:03 am

    Russia Insider wrote:Ukrainian far-right militants are getting ready for more war in Ukraine


    Анатолий Чубаченко wrote:"Donbass" in Shirokino kidnapped in separable lined with BMP-2


    Подробности wrote:In Avdeevka beat direct-fire 18.07


    Last edited by whir on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:03 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:[ I asked you earlier but I think it got buried in all the replies in the old thread.

    Since you are the closest to all the excitement going on right now and your predictions have been pretty accurate, how do you think the current situation regarding the infighting among the Ukrops and their increased bombing of Donetsk will play out over the next several days?

    Oh, and has there been anything different or unusual back on Krim regarding the tense situation in Banderastan?

    I think the infighting between the ukes is more window dressing than anything else, good theater for EUUS and not much more. As for the fuss in Zakarpatya in my opinion it was nothing more than an attempt to replace one gang with another gang. The RS boys who started it will probably never be found until long after the fuss is forgotten. The air attack yesterday was in all probability an attack against an unrelated gang of smugglers in the forests, again probably nothing more than good PR for the masses.

    As for the east, Nuland was just in Kiev visiting her serfs and gave them their orders. The bombardments will continue to increase until and if the ukes attack. The purpose of the bombardments, as we all know, is to goad NAF to attack. This the NAF will not do, they are going to sit there and take it for the entire summer if needs be.

    There is a small possibility that NAF will attack, it partly depends on what, if anything, Kiev signs next week in regards to the additional withdrawal of weapons, IOW smaller caliber weapons, and taking in to consideration what NAF Command said a few days ago. The ukes will not honor anything they may or may not sign next, actually now this, week. From what I can see both sides are ready to attack and defend, NAF in particular is now very well trained and organized. NAF will do what Moscow says to do in general but at this time, and for the foreseeable future, NAF is outnumbered by a considerable amount. Individual NAF units are generally better organized and trained than the uke units but there are some uke units that have shown they can fight well. NAF did send a very clear message to UAF and Kiev the other day in regards to the bombardments and NAF is not in the habit of making idle threats. We will see what comes in the next few days.

    Our situation here has not changed. All is calm and quiet both in our little village and up north on the borders. There is zero increased military activity on the uke side of the border and almost no patrols on their part anywhere near the borders. EUUS/Kiev can fuss and bluster about this peninsula but all understand that any attack on Krim or Sevastopol would be regarded as the same as an attack on St. Pete or Moskau and the response would be devastating. In the event of a NAF attack or successful defense against a uke attack we will instantly have as many more sanctions as can be piled on to us and Moskau. Not much we an do about that.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:30 am

    auslander wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:[ I asked you earlier but I think it got buried in all the replies in the old thread.

    Since you are the closest to all the excitement going on right now and your predictions have been pretty accurate, how do you think the current situation regarding the infighting among the Ukrops and their increased bombing of Donetsk will play out over the next several days?

    Oh, and has there been anything different or unusual back on Krim regarding the tense situation in Banderastan?

    I think the infighting between the ukes is more window dressing than anything else, good theater for EUUS and not much more. As for the fuss in Zakarpatya in my opinion it was nothing more than an attempt to replace one gang with another gang. The RS boys who started it will probably never be found until long after the fuss is forgotten. The air attack yesterday was in all probability an attack against an unrelated gang of smugglers in the forests, again probably nothing more than good PR for the masses.

    As for the east, Nuland was just in Kiev visiting her serfs and gave them their orders. The bombardments will continue to increase until and if the ukes attack. The purpose of the bombardments, as we all know, is to goad NAF to attack. This the NAF will not do, they are going to sit there and take it for the entire summer if needs be.

    There is a small possibility that NAF will attack, it partly depends on what, if anything, Kiev signs next week in regards to the additional withdrawal of weapons, IOW smaller caliber weapons, and taking in to consideration what NAF Command said a few days ago. The ukes will not honor anything they may or may not sign next, actually now this, week. From what I can see both sides are ready to attack and defend, NAF in particular is now very well trained and organized. NAF will do what Moscow says to do in general but at this time, and for the foreseeable future, NAF is outnumbered by a considerable amount. Individual NAF units are generally better organized and trained than the uke units but there are some uke units that have shown they can fight well. NAF did send a very clear message to UAF and Kiev the other day in regards to the bombardments and NAF is not in the habit of making idle threats. We will see what comes in the next few days.

    Our situation here has not changed. All is calm and quiet both in our little village and up north on the borders. There is zero increased military activity on the uke side of the border and almost no patrols on their part anywhere near the borders. EUUS/Kiev can fuss and bluster about this peninsula but all understand that any attack on Krim or Sevastopol would be regarded as the same as an attack on St. Pete or Moskau and the response would be devastating. In the event of a NAF attack or successful defense against a uke attack we will instantly have as many more sanctions as can be piled on to us and Moskau. Not much we an do about that.

    Thank you for your insight Auslander. It is always interesting to hear what you have to say.
    So you don't think the situation between the Ukrop Government and Right Sector and their friends will get worse?

    whir wrote:
    Ivan the Colorado wrote:Really reminiscent of when the National Guard rolled into Kramatorsk a little more than a year ago. Here is hoping that the local Right Sector units there has at least half the balls of the rebels that held Slavyansk and Kramatorsk too.
    We have yet to see contact with angry locals, things can get ugly very fast even without armed people on the streets as we saw last year.
    Hopefully we will see that soon. From what I know, even the current pro-EU/US government wasn't very popular in Transcarpathia. And it's not like RS doesn't have popular support in nearby Galicia. They practically have all of Lvov on their side.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:38 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote:They practically have all of Lvov on their side.

    Not all of it.



    Right Sector tried to prevent that.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:00 am

    Ivan the Colorado wrote: Thank you for your insight Auslander. It is always interesting to hear what you have to say.
    So you don't think the situation between the Ukrop Government and Right Sector and their friends will get worse?

    Right Sector and Kiev depend on each other very much, one can not function or exist without the other in my opinion, therefore in the near future nothing will happen to either entity. Kiev will continue to be totally supported by US mainly and EU via lip service if for no other reason than the current situation is a stick in the eye of Russia and that was the whole purpose of this from late 2013 to the present. Right Sector are in many respects the modern Brown Shirts and Black Shirts from Germany in the '30's, their purpose is to intimidate the populace in to subservience and keep them there. Yes, they have some support at this time but if it comes to a total disintegration of Ukraine then, like the Black Shirts at the very end and after the end of the second war, they will be hunted down and retribution will be swift and total for those who don't manage to flee.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:08 pm

    Maidan deployed Arta artillery fire control system in Donbas, says can turn the tide of war in Maidan's favor.

    http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/07/18/ukraine_may_turn_tide_of_war_its_way_with_arta_artillery_control_system_608501

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Neutrality on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:14 pm

    whir wrote:
    Taras Bulba wrote:ATO in Transcarpathia !?

    Slavyansk 2.0

    Watch the shit hit the fan. The amount of manpower they brought in is alot more and you can already see the trigger-horny idiots aiming at bystanders like the guy with the camera. It's going to get ugly.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:15 pm

    NAF returned fire yesterday and killed 1 Maidan soldier and 4 civilians.

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/reuters-intensified-shelling-in-east-ukraine-kills-four-civilians-soldier-393790.html


    In total, Maidan suffered 1 soldier KIA and 7 soldiers WIA yesterday.

    http://en.censor.net.ua/news/344484/one_soldier_killed_over_past_day_seven_wounded_ato_speaker

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:19 pm

    MOSCOW, July 19. /TASS/. The self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR) begins a unilateral withdrawal from the line of engagement of the weapons under 100-mm calibre, Sergei Kozlov of the People’s militia said on Sunday.

    "Following the order from head of the Lugansk People’s Republic Igor Plotnitsky, we begin today a unilateral withdrawal from the line of engagement of the weapons under 100-mm calibre to the distance of at least three kilometres," the LuganskInformCentre quoted him. "Despite the complicated military and political situation in Ukraine, we are not going to use this advantage and provoke a new circle of conflict," he said. "While demonstrating the adherence to the Minsk agreements, we are making this step openly and unilaterally hoping the Ukrainian side follows suit."

    In order to avoid whatever provocations, he said, the withdrawal will be organised in presence of the OSCE mission representatives.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:21 pm

    JohninMK wrote:MOSCOW, July 19. /TASS/. The self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR) begins a unilateral withdrawal from the line of engagement of the weapons under 100-mm calibre, Sergei Kozlov of the People’s militia said on Sunday.

    "Following the order from head of the Lugansk People’s Republic Igor Plotnitsky, we begin today a unilateral withdrawal from the line of engagement of the weapons under 100-mm calibre to the distance of at least three kilometres," the LuganskInformCentre quoted him. "Despite the complicated military and political situation in Ukraine, we are not going to use this advantage and provoke a new circle of conflict," he said. "While demonstrating the adherence to the Minsk agreements, we are making this step openly and unilaterally hoping the Ukrainian side follows suit."

    In order to avoid whatever provocations, he said, the withdrawal will be organised in presence of the OSCE mission representatives.

    Does weapons under 100 mm caliber include 7.62 mm machine guns and 5.45 mm AK rifles?

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  whir on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:23 pm

    Andrey Filatov wrote:I occupant



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:33 pm

    What's terrible in this war is that there are so many ethnic Russian Ukrainians who are NATO lovers, who are eager to kill ethnic Russian Ukrainians who love Russia, who are eager to have NATO bases in Donbas along the border with Russia. Klimkin who was born in Russia himself is a fine example of such degenerates. During WW2 all Austrians were pro Germany. There were no nation traitors in Austria. Turchynov and this Olha Reshetilova, whoever she is, should be lined up and executed for being traitors of the Russian nation.  What a Face

    http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/07/18/ukraine_may_turn_tide_of_war_its_way_with_arta_artillery_control_system_608501

    A strong nation must not have nation traitors. thumbsup


    Last edited by Flagship Victory on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:54 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:45 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:
    I can name 5 foreign policy failures on Russia's part.

    1. failure to back client Gaddafi in 2011

    2. failture to back client Assad in 2011

    3. failture to stop Euro Maidan in 2013

    4. absorbing Crimea in 2014 therefore made Ukrainians hate Russia forever

    5. failure to back NAF resistance in Donbas, Kharkov, Odessa

    1 and 2: Both Gaddafi and Assad were looking west when they got gang banged by the west.

    3. If you are going to blame Russia for Maiden then why not blame Poland for WWII... they did nothing to stop it either...

    4: Fuck Ukraine the Ukrainians that hated Russia before were always going to hate, and those that don't have their reasons for not... Crimea makes no difference... haters going to hate anyway.

    5: Hate them because they do, hate them because they don't. If Ukrainians in the east of the Ukraine don't like having an illegal nazi government in Kiev that is up to them to do something about it... stop blaming Russia for your problems.

    Mike E does not blame Putin for the US governments foreign and domestic policy... Seph doesn't blame Putin for the actions of the Canadian government... are the actions of the Australian government Putins fault too?

    How about taking some personal responsibility and realising that the silent majority of the Ukraine did nothing while a few nazi extremists took power and now it is Russias fault... if the ukrainian majority can't be bothered doing something about it why should Russia risk the lives of its soldiers?



    Does weapons under 100 mm caliber include 7.62 mm machine guns and 5.45 mm AK rifles?

    No, only artillery.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Khepesh on Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:19 pm

    Hungary says it will defend Hungarians in Ukraine and that if they are attacked, then Hungary will aid them. Also admits that Hungary has agents in Ukraine doing what they can to aid Hungarians, and that they see Ukraine as a country on the edge of collapse. http://rusvesna.su/news/1437303293


    Also this. House of the head of Transcarpathian Rusyns and that of his deputy have come under fire from radicals. Coordinator of the Ruthenian movement, Petr Getsko, said that if this continues then we will have to defend our families by force of arms. http://rusvesna.su/news/1437302657


    Last edited by Khepesh on Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  auslander on Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:21 pm

    Neutrality wrote:
    Slavyansk 2.0
    Watch the shit hit the fan. The amount of manpower they brought in is alot more and you can already see the trigger-horny idiots aiming at bystanders like the guy with the camera. It's going to get ugly.

    Looks like a mechanized unit command structure with a few attachments . Don't know for sure the actual date that vid was made but it looks like the same unit filmed a few days ago going through Zhitomir and heading west.

    We'll see how this pans out but I still don't think the ukes will do much of anything at the moment. They've already got a tough situation concerning Novorossiya, they're stirring up trouble with Transnistra and now playing with Zakarpatiya doesn't make sense, although from past performance when have the ukes made any sense in the last couple years.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:42 pm

    Flagship Victory wrote:What's terrible in this war is that there are so many ethnic Russian Ukrainians who are NATO lovers, who are eager to kill ethnic Russian Ukrainians who love Russia, who are eager to have NATO bases in Donbas along the border with Russia. Klimkin who was born in Russia himself is a fine example of such degenerates. During WW2 all Austrians were pro Germany. There were no nation traitors in Austria. Turchynov and this Olha Reshetilova, whoever she is, should be lined up and executed for being traitors of the Russian nation.  What a Face

    http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/07/18/ukraine_may_turn_tide_of_war_its_way_with_arta_artillery_control_system_608501

    A strong nation must not have nation traitors. thumbsup
    This will be a good subject of study for future historians. Why did Russians turn against other Russians.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #18

    Post  kvs on Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:47 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:
    Flagship Victory wrote:What's terrible in this war is that there are so many ethnic Russian Ukrainians who are NATO lovers, who are eager to kill ethnic Russian Ukrainians who love Russia, who are eager to have NATO bases in Donbas along the border with Russia. Klimkin who was born in Russia himself is a fine example of such degenerates. During WW2 all Austrians were pro Germany. There were no nation traitors in Austria. Turchynov and this Olha Reshetilova, whoever she is, should be lined up and executed for being traitors of the Russian nation.  What a Face

    http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/07/18/ukraine_may_turn_tide_of_war_its_way_with_arta_artillery_control_system_608501

    A strong nation must not have nation traitors. thumbsup
    This will be a good subject of study for future historians. Why did Russians turn against other Russians.

    It's the power of consumer culture propaganda. And the casting of this as Russians vs. Russians is not valid.
    It is Ukrainian-Russians vs. Russians. That is a vital distinction as these people live in a different environment
    and are subject to cultural and information conditioning that Russians in Russia are not. We see here how weak
    human minds really are. Humans are social creatures with a limited self-identity. The term sheeple is quite
    correct and it applies to all humans. It also accounts for most of the world's problems since sheeple are led
    around by the nose and do not decide their fate.

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