Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Share
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3766
    Points : 3869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:06 am

    George1 wrote:The development of combat new-generation railway complexes has been discontinued

     According to Sergei Ptichkin in the material published in the "Rossiyskaya Gazeta", the development of combat railway complexes (BZHRK) of a new generation for the R & D "Barguzin" has been discontinued. "The topic is closed, in any case, for the near future, said a very informed representative of the Russian defense-industrial complex."

     In the material it is reported that "Barguzin's experimental design work has been carried out." The experiment with the launch was successful, and if urgent, our missile train will quickly become on the rails.

     The bmpd comment. Work on the new-generation combat-railway complex with an intercontinental ballistic missile for BKR "Barguzin" is conducted under the leading role of JSC "Corporation" Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering "(MIT) from 2011 as part of the State Armaments Program for 2011-2020 (GPV 2020) , with the initial deadline for completing the State Test in 2019. At the end of 2014 the sketch design of the complex was approved and in 2015 the development of design documentation was started. At the end of October 2016 in Plesetsk, the first and only missile test of the missile of the complex was made.

     According to available information, with the correction of the GPO 2020 in 2015, the main stages of the Barguzin R & D project were transferred beyond the scope of the GPO 2020 and were to be determined by the new State Arms Program for 2016-2025 (now 2018-2027). If the message of S. Ptichkin is true, then, apparently, the ROC "Barguzin" was not eventually included in the new GPV-2027.

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2983189.html

    Typical Russian bi-polar reporting style. So the project is delayed and they call it cancelled. GTFO.
    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 6950
    Points : 7048
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:40 am

    They developed and tested it. It was more about train itself and comms systems rather than missile (it's just modified Bulava)

    It's not a priority so they kicked it back and redirected cash into stuff like Rubezh, Sarmat or additional SSBNs. For now.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2423
    Points : 2407
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:24 am

    Well, mobile road ones, which shown to work in pretty much in the backwoods, isn't that enough in terms of mobile? I was ho hum about this system to begin with as the wheeled one is much cheaper and can be moved everywhere rather than just rail line. And system is available for when needed. But priority must be in the hypersonic and the submarine launch ones imo. This one seemed to be rather odd. I mean, its useful but how much more than the road mobile ones?
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3766
    Points : 3869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:07 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Well, mobile road ones, which shown to work in pretty much in the backwoods, isn't that enough in terms of mobile?  I was ho hum about this system to begin with as the wheeled one is much cheaper and can be moved everywhere rather than just rail line.  And system is available for when needed.  But priority must be in the hypersonic and the submarine launch ones imo.  This one seemed to be rather odd.  I mean, its useful but how much more than the road mobile ones?

    Even if only diverts part of the NATO nuclear ICBM arsenal to target the Russian railroad system instead of other targets then it is a
    success. I suspect these reports are deliberate Russian government misinformation. NATO does not need to know Russian project
    details and completion schedules. This applies to things like navy ship construction as well.

    But the style of Russian reporting on various military projects is pure annoying crap.
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2558
    Points : 2564
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:45 am

    I bet right now those 16 SLBMs per Borei hurt real bad scratch
    Russia needs to get serious with their nuclear deterrent.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2423
    Points : 2407
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:36 am

    Some people are born dumb.

    Let me make it easy. START states both sides can only have 1,500 warheads. I'm this case, that's what both sides currently have. New systems have to use existing warheads since new ones can't made unless old ones are destroyed.

    So regardless if this system exists or not, the outcome is still the same - same number of warheads allowed.

    Might I add, many of the roadways are actually more hidden by obvious reasons than a lot of track. But anyway...unamed source in action again.
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2558
    Points : 2564
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:55 am

    miketheterrible wrote:START states both sides can only have 1,500 warheads.

    START doesn't touch the distribution of those 1,550 warheads on the delivery platform.

    These are the limits:
    Deployed and non-deployed ICBM launchers, SLBM launchers, and heavy bombers equipped for nuclear armaments to 800.
    Deployed ICBMs, SLBMs, and heavy bombers equipped for nuclear armaments is limited to 700.

    PS. The Americans removed 4 of the 24 launchers on their 14 boomers, but they did not dispose of them. They stored them.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17865
    Points : 18427
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:01 am

    Rail is much better than road.

    ICBM trucks can't turn tight corners and can't just turn down any country lane... they need a quite wide radius turn road to operate from.. which there are not that many in Russia.

    More importantly the tracks are just half the issue... these nuclear trains look the same as normal trains.... ICBM trucks look nothing like cars and vans and most other trucks.

    The nuclear train is a fast moving target amongst other targets that look the same.

    The west has nothing like enough weapons... conventional and nuclear to take out all of the trains in Russia.... not even close, and if they tried to hit a percentage on the off chance they take out a few ICBM trains most of the time they would be wasting time and money.... even if they work out which is which by the time they can target it it will be empty.

    Just think of a circle of track 1,000km across, with a siding beside the main track that goes down 20 metres so a train driving into it can still raise and launch a missile but any explosion nearby will blow above the train and do it no harm.

    You would need a direct hit for each train but you could have thousands of sidings and you don't have thousands of shots at them.

    Now think of the hundreds of thousands of kms of track in Russia...

    these side tracks can be used as resting stops or to allow trains to pass each other on the track, or for repairs.

    And they would not need to be anything like as expensive as an SSBN or Silo for a ICBM.

    Hell if you wanted you could put an extra carriage on the back with an S-500 battery to defend that train and other trains within 600km of it...


    PS. The Americans removed 4 of the 24 launchers on their 14 boomers, but they did not dispose of them. They stored them.

    There is deep storage and operational storage. Deep storage warheads don't count and would generally not be available to use in a timely fashion in a conflict.

    Operational storage warheads still count.
    avatar
    KiloGolf

    Posts : 2558
    Points : 2564
    Join date : 2015-09-01
    Location : Macedonia, Hellas

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:05 am

    GarryB wrote:There is deep storage and operational storage. Deep storage warheads don't count and would generally not be available to use in a timely fashion in a conflict.

    Operational storage warheads still count.

    My comment on storage is not aimed at using them during conflict but rather during doctrinal changes.
    This is a flexibility more tubes on Ohio offer and slashed train-launched ICBMs or 16 launcher-equipped Boreis don't.

    Arrow

    Posts : 211
    Points : 211
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Arrow on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:45 pm

    Barguzin canceled, Borey-A with only 16 launcher, Sarmat with problems.  The US develops a global ABM and stores more than a thousand W-76 to place them on 24 Trident in 14 Ohio if necessary Laughing Disarmament of Russia stategic arsenal continues.
    avatar
    franco

    Posts : 2962
    Points : 2994
    Join date : 2010-08-18

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  franco on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:53 pm

    The U.S. State Department released aggregate New START numbers from the 1 September 2017 data exchange. Russia declared 1561 deployed warheads, 501 deployed launchers, and 790 total launchers. In March 2017 the numbers were 1765, 523, and 816 respectively.

    The U.S. numbers in September 2017 were 1393 warheads, 660 deployed and 800 total launchers (1411, 673, and 820 in March 2017).

    From above, the Russians would have 289 stored launchers (ICBM, SLBM or strategic bombers) while the US would have 140 stored launchers.
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2167
    Points : 2190
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  eehnie on Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:58 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Well, mobile road ones, which shown to work in pretty much in the backwoods, isn't that enough in terms of mobile?  I was ho hum about this system to begin with as the wheeled one is much cheaper and can be moved everywhere rather than just rail line.  And system is available for when needed.  But priority must be in the hypersonic and the submarine launch ones imo.  This one seemed to be rather odd.  I mean, its useful but how much more than the road mobile ones?

    The main reason that leads to one or to other type of platform is in the size/weight of the missiles.

    There is a range of size/weight of the missiles where wheeled or tracked platforms can not be used, but where train bassed missles have better mobility than silo based missiles.

    Mobility of wheeled/tracked land vehicles (road share + off-road) > Mobility of train (smaller share of rails) > Mobility of silo based systems (not mobile)

    Size/weight of missles mounted on wheeled/tracked platforms < Size/weight of missles based on train platforms < Size/weight of missiled based on silo platforms.


    avatar
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 6950
    Points : 7048
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:00 pm

    GarryB wrote:The nuclear train is a fast moving target amongst other targets that look the same.

    Target's mobility is irelevant as long as it has one. If at all.

    Nobody will be targeting enemy military installations in case of nuclear war. Every single warhead will be going after population centers.

    This bullshit fairytale about not exterminating enemy population is a fantasy designed to placate peaceniks and make idea of nuclear war more palatable for your own population because it also plants idea in the back of their minds that they too would be spared. They won't be.



    Arrow wrote:The US develops a global ABM 

    That doesn't work for shit.


    Arrow wrote:Disarmament of Russia stategic arsenal continues.


    Nowhere near as much as proliferation of retards on the internet. A horrible fact that we must all live with.
    avatar
    Big_Gazza

    Posts : 1266
    Points : 1270
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Big_Gazza on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:16 am

    Arrow wrote:Barguzin canceled, Borey-A with only 16 launcher, Sarmat with problems.  The US develops a global ABM and stores more than a thousand W-76 to place them on 24 Trident in 14 Ohio if necessary Laughing Disarmament of Russia stategic arsenal continues.

    What, have you volunteered to be the new forum clown? replacing Ultimatewarrior, rmf, and all the other Russophobe know-nuffins?
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17865
    Points : 18427
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:38 am

    Target's mobility is irelevant as long as it has one. If at all.

    No it does not.

    A regiment of trucks would be vulnerable if they do not disperse before an attack and cannot spend 24/7 on the road all the time.

    Mobility over thousands of targets amongst objects that look the same as targets is a much more secure system.

    Even building its own railway with a circle of track 1,000km across with no other traffic except nuclear missile trains would be perfectly adequate and effective for the job.

    Not like they are short of space.

    Nobody will be targeting enemy military installations in case of nuclear war. Every single warhead will be going after population centers.

    The west is trapped by its own ideology... you don't think the french officer that leaked details of stealth bomber flight paths to the serbs did it for money.. he clearly knew what NATO was doing was wrong and he did something about it.... just like snowden, and lots of moral people who work in the west and their work gives them access to information to show them how bad and evil the west really is.

    That doesn't work for shit.

    Physically it does not work but as a marketting system it offers people the belief that they can survive a partial nuclear war... therefore making said nuclear war much more likely.... Trump is about to spend trillions building a missile shield for the US.... I bet US companies are drooling, and yet it wont make them any safer than if they just dialed everything down and backed up from pushing NK into a corner... but they are a bully and a bully doesn't understand anything but increasing and escalating.

    Disarmament of Russia stategic arsenal continues.

    Hahahaha... it is funny that when the Russians get stronger the west thinks they are getting weaker, but when has the west ever worried about being wrong.

    The new generation of nuclear power plants the Russians are building are called fast neutron reactors... the other name is breeder reactors, and they are ideal for producing their own nuclear fuel and also weapons grade material in the process of generating energy...

    Pretty soon the Russians will be able to make more nuclear weapons material than they could possibly use in a very short period of time...

    The New START treaty has limits on platforms and warheads in terms of numbers in use and in storage, but the treaty applies to one day... either the 5th February in 2018... trump refused to extend the new START treaty so on the 6th of February Russia can have as many deployed warheads and launch platforms as it wants.
    [/quote]


    Last edited by GarryB on Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17865
    Points : 18427
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:40 am

    BTW the mobility of one train with 6 missiles ready to launch is much better than 6 separate trucks and it would be cheaper to operate 10 trains than it would to operate a base with 60 ICBMs on 60 trucks.


    Of course it would be easier to put a TOPOL into one of their An-124s and fly it anywhere around the world to launch at the west than doing the same with a train I guess.

    But then they have super long range torpedoes and fractional orbital bombardment systems and just container ships with nuclear armed cruise missiles for that sort of shit.  Smile
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2167
    Points : 2190
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  eehnie on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:43 pm

    Only taking into account that a wheeled/tracked platform can be also mounted on a train, and even likely fired from the train, the mobility of a train based platform never can be bigger than the mobility of a wheeled/tracked platform, because in adition to that the wheeled/tracked platform have its own mobility by roads and even off-road, and also can use aerial and maritime transport means.

    I said it before, the train based missiles only can have advantage over wheeled/tracked platforms for size/weights of missiles that are over the limits of the wheeled/tracked platforms.

    To talk about size/weight of a missile as critical measure in the decission may be surprising for some people, but is strongly related with the firepower and the range of a missile.

    We will see how the ammunition, the missiles, of the SS-32 future system will be too big for wheeled/tracked platforms. These missiles will be in a size between the silo based SS-30 and the self propelled SS-31, like explained in the small scheme of my previous comment.

    If a train platform would allow to better mobility than a wheeled/tracked platform, we would see every type of missiles mounted on train platforms.
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3766
    Points : 3869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:08 am

    eehnie wrote:Only taking into account that a wheeled/tracked platform can be also mounted on a train, and even likely fired from the train, the mobility of a train based platform never can be bigger than the mobility of a wheeled/tracked platform, because in adition to that the wheeled/tracked platform have its own mobility by roads and even off-road, and also can use aerial and maritime transport means.

    I said it before, the train based missiles only can have advantage over wheeled/tracked platforms for size/weights of missiles that are over the limits of the wheeled/tracked platforms.

    To talk about size/weight of a missile as critical measure in the decission may be surprising for some people, but is strongly related with the firepower and the range of a missile.

    We will see how the ammunition, the missiles, of the SS-32 future system will be too big for wheeled/tracked platforms. These missiles will be in a size between the silo based SS-30 and the self propelled SS-31, like explained in the small scheme of my previous comment.

    If a train platform would allow to better mobility than a wheeled/tracked platform, we would see every type of missiles mounted on train platforms.

    In theory a 2D dispersal is better than being constrained on a 1D network. But in reality, the missile trucks are stuck on a 1D network as well and cannot
    randomly wonder the Russian countryside. Masqueraded trains make targeting of the rail platform harder than the trucks. As already pointed out, the
    US does not have enough warheads to target every Russian train to take out the fraction that are ICBM carriers. But the US can track ever Russian
    missile carrying truck as long as one exposes itself from camouflage, which they must do to move around.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 17865
    Points : 18427
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:17 am

    A train can run at high speed for very long periods and scatter much further than any truck.

    A train could also carry air defence missiles and other useful things too... once it gets to the area of the Urals you could have trains going into mountains in thousands of tunnels who go who knows how deep under mountains.... once they go in who knows where they are... and you can't hit all the tunnel entrances.

    As I said before they don't need top cover either, just a side track that goes down 5 or 10 metres below the level of the ground and any nuclear blast more than 1 km away will just blow over the top... raise the missile and fire when ready... the sidings not used by missile trains can be used by passenger trains to protect them too.

    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 2167
    Points : 2190
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  eehnie on Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:26 am

    kvs wrote:
    eehnie wrote:Only taking into account that a wheeled/tracked platform can be also mounted on a train, and even likely fired from the train, the mobility of a train based platform never can be bigger than the mobility of a wheeled/tracked platform, because in adition to that the wheeled/tracked platform have its own mobility by roads and even off-road, and also can use aerial and maritime transport means.

    I said it before, the train based missiles only can have advantage over wheeled/tracked platforms for size/weights of missiles that are over the limits of the wheeled/tracked platforms.

    To talk about size/weight of a missile as critical measure in the decission may be surprising for some people, but is strongly related with the firepower and the range of a missile.

    We will see how the ammunition, the missiles, of the SS-32 future system will be too big for wheeled/tracked platforms. These missiles will be in a size between the silo based SS-30 and the self propelled SS-31, like explained in the small scheme of my previous comment.

    If a train platform would allow to better mobility than a wheeled/tracked platform, we would see every type of missiles mounted on train platforms.

    In theory a 2D dispersal is better than being constrained on a 1D network.   But in reality, the missile trucks are stuck on a 1D network as well and cannot
    randomly wonder the Russian countryside.    Masqueraded trains make targeting of the rail platform harder than the trucks.    As already pointed out, the
    US does not have enough warheads to target every Russian train to take out the fraction that are ICBM carriers.    But the US can track ever Russian
    missile carrying truck as long as one exposes itself from camouflage, which they must do to move around.

    Russia recently developed a fake wheeled missile system that looks exactly like the real missile systems, to distract the tracking. The procurement just begins now. Masquerading tactics will be very used also in the case of the wheeled/tracked systems. If I'm not wrong, the point was to put one or two fake launcher tucks in adition to the real launcher in every unit of missile systems.

    Taking into account that the missiles on train platforms will be bigger than the biggest missiles on wheeled platforms, and as consequence more powerful, of bigger range and faster (thanks to have available bigger amounts of fuel), for the US, they will be a bigger priority to follow than the systems based on wheeled platforms. The US is forced to put more resources in the control of the railway share than following the wheeled systems. It is not easy to control all the railway share, but even without enough resources for observation, the tracking system can reach a decent degree of effectivenes. I would be able to maximize the effectiveness of a system without enough resources to track all the missiles. Obviously more people in the US, Russia, China,... can do it too.

    Even masquerading tacticts begin to be used for silo based systems, and it will distract also observation resources of the US.
    avatar
    Tsavo Lion

    Posts : 624
    Points : 624
    Join date : 2016-08-15
    Location : AZ, USA

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:..these nuclear trains look the same as normal trains.... The nuclear train is a fast moving target amongst other targets that look the same.
    No, with more wheels for extra weight & 3 locomotives pulling just a few cars, they don't look the same: http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2017-12-08/1_976_barguzin.html?print=Y

    The article has very good points. My guess is that they decided to cut their losses now, saving $Bs; the new Skif sea bottom ICBMs r better camouflaged & can also be repositioned by special subs, at fraction of the cost of having these BM trains. Let's see what China will do with hers!
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3766
    Points : 3869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:56 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    GarryB wrote:..these nuclear trains look the same as normal trains.... The nuclear train is a fast moving target amongst other targets that look the same.
    No, with more wheels for extra weight & 3 locomotives pulling just a few cars, they don't look the same: http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2017-12-08/1_976_barguzin.html?print=Y

    The article has very good points. My guess is that they decided to cut their losses now, saving $Bs; the new Skif sea bottom ICBMs r better camouflaged & can also be repositioned by special subs, at fraction of the cost of having these BM trains. Let's see what China will do with hers!

    This claim about three locomotives and more wheels is straight out of the original design. Ergo a total BS claim. The replacement ICBMs would have
    had a tonnage 50% smaller than the old design and thus removed the need for more train wheels and additional locomotives.
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3766
    Points : 3869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:59 pm

    GarryB wrote:A train can run at high speed for very long periods and scatter much further than any truck.

    A train could also carry air defence missiles and other useful things too... once it gets to the area of the Urals you could have trains going into mountains in thousands of tunnels who go who knows how deep under mountains.... once they go in who knows where they are... and you can't hit all the tunnel entrances.

    As I said before they don't need top cover either, just a side track that goes down 5 or 10 metres below the level of the ground and any nuclear blast more than 1 km away will just blow over the top... raise the missile and fire when ready... the sidings not used by missile trains can be used by passenger trains to protect them too.


    Another plus with tunnels is that they can have numerous entrances so it would not be possible to block a train.

    The advantages of a rail system are obvious. The "cancellation" is some sort of political game. I suppose that
    Putin wants Washington to signal some concessions. It appears that Putin is getting senile in his old age and should
    retire. Washington has just slapped sanctions on Russia for "INF treaty violations". Soon they will slap sanctions
    on Russia since Putin took a dump in a toilet. The only language that Washington understands is naked force.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 2423
    Points : 2407
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:00 am

    Some of you people need to get a grip on reality. It doesn't make a difference if the missile is transported by mail or by road cause they are both very hard to track (many of these mobile systems are seen in middle of wooded nowhere) and they have enough range to launch payload at that moment, and it would be way too late for US to see that happening.

    They built this for a "just in case if US decides to break START".

    I think some of you hate Putin and will find any excuse to jab at him. But this was done by MoD, the people that more insider info to these systems than you or I. If you don't trust them, send an email.
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3766
    Points : 3869
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:21 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Some of you people need to get a grip on reality. It doesn't make a difference if the missile is transported by mail or by road cause they are both very hard to track (many of these mobile systems are seen in middle of wooded nowhere) and they have enough range to launch payload at that moment, and it would be way too late for US to see that happening.

    They built this for a "just in case if US decides to break START".

    I think some of you hate Putin and will find any excuse to jab at him. But this was done by MoD, the people that more insider info to these systems than you or I. If you don't trust them, send an email.

    Yeah, ad hominems are a great argument.

    Any advantage helps in war. War is not some internet forum drivel fest where everyone has an opinion like they have an asshole.

    The Americans are going to nuke Russia's railway system in the event of a war in any case, since it is a "legitimate civilian target".
    Let America eat some shit for exchange. History demonstrates that appeasement never works. Russia needs to get serious and
    stop living in denial about its western "partners".

    Some people need to get a grip. The hate spew coming out of NATO is insane. Just as insane as the crap spewed by the Reich before
    WWII. Russia is not doing the provoking and the hate spreading. But it and most importantly its people are being demonized by the
    NATO MSM, propaganda orifice of the NATO elites. So war is coming and no amount of signaling by Putin in any shape or form will
    stop it. Even the idiots pushing for it in NATO will not be able to stop it at the rate which they are trying to make it happen.

    Sponsored content

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:33 pm