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    BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

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    kvs

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Fri May 20, 2016 2:01 am

    max steel wrote:Given the finite rail network it's unlikely to be as useful as the Topols in terms of flexibility of firing positions, which can drive on roads to almost any pre-prepared launch position. The saving grace of rail is speed and perhaps the ability to mass a large number of Topols quickly along the rail net.

    It would be especially useful in diverting the missile force quickly over the large expanses of Russia/Siberia. Being able to cow Europe /and/ China with the same number of quickly moveable rail-ICBM is more economical than a large Topol force that can't react and move quickly from place to place.

    The other possibility is that rail allows a force to be moved into an area and to quickly fire missiles, then scoot, much more so than slower road-mobile topol (which can go off of the railroad net and are better off hiding or creeping around than zipping around as fast as possible).

    The third possibility is that rail allows a rail-ICBM force to move forward from safe rear areas after the threat is clear, fire the missiles and retreat.


    Topol usage is probably going to be roving and based on pre-selected, well-concealed sites. The trains will have to disperse and be prepared to rapidly move to a desired target area on short notice (or to egress quickly if the bombers are coming).

    If the missile force is kept east of the Ural mountains, it makes it a little trickier to find. There is more area, but far less civilian traffic. Trains running at high speed during wartime will stick out. West of the Urals with more civilian traffic, bombing all the trains is unlikely to be received well.

    Russia is big, and this is an advantage that is conferred on their road and rail network. Lots of area to hunt is not going to be fun for countering either the Topol or their Molodets replacement.

    Actually Russia's road network is more limited than its railway system.   No Topol launcher can travel as fast as a train.   And most importantly,
    it does not make any difference if Russian ICBMs are launched from a subset of its territory or the whole thing.   The only issue is if it is easier
    for the rail systems to be destroyed by a US first strike compared to road systems.   The rail systems are much harder to kill compared to silos
    and really are in a different class along with the road systems.    A single "stealthed" train can carry several ICBMs and can't be distinguished
    from any other train.   A mobile road launcher can carry one only and can be tracked from satellites.

    The US will not be able to target the whole Russian railway system.   It does not have enough missiles and warheads.   It's a fool's errand in any
    case.    

    It's nice to see Podvig squirming.  That 5th column kreakl dirtbag wishes for Russia to fail and for Uncle Scam to succeed.   He should bugger
    on off to his promised land.

    Austin

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Austin on Fri May 20, 2016 6:49 am

    If stooges like Pavel are used by Western Intel to spread FUD against Barguzin System , which means there is a good reason US fears the system as it will be hard to track and all the more reason to develop it.

    Pavel was a Russian who fled to US taking lot of material on Strategic Matters with in 90's
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    sepheronx

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  sepheronx on Fri May 20, 2016 8:36 am

    Glad 90's are over and his knowledge/contribution is outdated and no longer useful.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 20, 2016 12:46 pm

    The smaller missiles mean the carriages can be standard rather than special designs.

    Think of the new system as being the equivalent of TOPOL on a standard truck with a standard shipping container on its trailer... or a ship with standard shipping crates... we are talking needle in a haystack of needles...


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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri May 20, 2016 2:22 pm

    GarryB wrote:The smaller missiles mean the carriages can be standard rather than special designs.

    Think of the new system as being the equivalent of TOPOL on a standard truck with a standard shipping container on its trailer... or a ship with standard shipping crates... we are talking needle in a haystack of needles...

    RS-26 Rubezh

    a good candidate for IRBM for European Bagruzins?



    TV Zvezda

    18 March 2015, the defense Ministry announced the successful test of a new ballistic missile RS-26 "Boundary" with a reduced range.

    ....
    "Topol-M" and "YARS" bring in the first case, one in the second - several hypersonic maneuvering nuclear warheads individual guidance within the atmosphere at speeds close to 10 km per second. Modern means of radar systems, missile defense is not see targets flying at speeds of over 5 km per second. Therefore, in the case of Russian missiles, the us missile defense is expensive and useless junk. In this context, the emergence of Russian RS-26 was named in the U.S. Congress, "an unprecedented threat to U.S. national security over the past 30 years."



    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201503290853-78tu.htm




    En. Wiki
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-26_Rubezh

    Weight 20 to 50 Ton , up to 80 Ton max


    Ru Wiki


    Despite the fact that the official range of the missile at least 6000 km according to the United States the rocket is significantly smaller and lighter ICBM "Topol-M"[2], with less fuel and can run on the order of 2000 km[3] and therefore, according to the United States violates the INF Treaty[4][9][1].


    tongue
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    GarryB

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Sat May 21, 2016 8:37 am

    The simplest and fastest way to get an IRBM into service is to take a three stage ICBM and remove one stage... depending on the ICBM and the range required it could be the first or second stage that is removed.

    It would not take much to get a 2,000km range from Iskander... missile technology has improved quite a bit since Scud.

    Weight 20 to 50 Ton , up to 80 Ton max

    So weight between 20 ton and 80 ton.... so really they have no idea... tongue


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    Viktor

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Viktor on Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:37 pm

    Nice thumbsup

    missile tests for the new BZHRK can take in the IV quarter 2016
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    Rmf

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Rmf on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:16 pm

    barguzin>?
    thats a river that flows into lake baikal.
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    George1

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  George1 on Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:49 pm

    Test of Barguzin rail-mobile ICBM reported

    Russia appears to have conducted the first test of the Barguzin rail-mobile missile in Plesetsk some time in the last week. The first report about the test appeared in a somewhat dubious publication (via Military.ru), it was largely confirmed by a number of other sources. There is no official confirmation, though.

    It appears to be an "ejection test," which tested the mechanism of the missile leaving its launch container (presumably mounted on a rail car, although it is not clear if this test involved an actual rail car). It is still rather far from a working missile, but it's a step in that direction.

    The Barguzin program has a difficult history. It was given a green light in 2014, but then was reported to be suspended. The industry pressed on with "elements of the system" and indeed Yuri Solomonov, the Chief Designer of the Moscow Institute of Thermal Technology (MITT) promised back in May that the first ejection test will take place "in the beginning of the fourth quarter of 2016."

    This wold be somewhat unusual, but hardly unprecedented for the industry to continue with the development even if the prospect for the ministry of defense's ordering the system are quite uncertain. MITT probably counts on getting an order after all.

    UPDATE 11/04/2016: An anonymous "knowledgeable" source told Interfax that there was no launch from Plesetsk in the past few days. However, the source did confirm that the ejection test will take place before the end of the year.

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/11/test_of_barguzin_rail-mobile_i.shtml


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    George1

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  George1 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:24 pm

    Spot Me If You Can: Russia's Brand New Nuke Train to Be Undetectable

    A Russian-made intercontinental ballistic missile outfitted onto the advanced Barguzin rail-based strategic missile complex has successfully passed a pop-up launch test for the first time. Defense analyst Victor Murakhovsky told Radio Sputnik that this unique system is virtually undetectable.

    Murakhovsky mentioned that some have referred to the new complex, which carries up to six RS-24 Yars missiles, as "a sheer nightmare" for foreign intelligence services.

    "I would agree with this since there are no attributes which could be used to detect this rail-based missile complex," he said. "There is a new launching platform and a new combat control system which uses protected digital communication channels. There are new input programs for missions," he detailed.

    The testing took place at the Plesetsk Cosmodrome approximately two weeks ago in early November. It paves the way for full-scale flight development tests.

    "Pop-up launch tests are conducted to determine whether the complex is operational. The missile and the transporter-launcher container were developed some time ago, but the launching platform is a novel solution. The trials are meant to test its performance," the analyst explained.

    The work on the Barguzin is proceeding according to plan, he added. The system is expected to be developed by 2018.

    The Barguzin will be a major upgrade compared to the rail-based strategic missile complexes developed in the Soviet Union. They were removed from operational use in 2005.

    "Soviet-era platforms employed railway cars, different in size from standard rail carriages. The new missile complex fits onto standard rail gauge. The wagons carrying [the recently tested] missiles resemble a freight refrigerator car for instance," he explained.

    Murakhovsky also said that the new system is second to none in the world.
    "The United States was working on a similar program during the Cold War," he said. "There was an idea to lay rail tracks underground and place launching platforms there. Financing was wasted and they did not create anything even remotely resembling the Russian system."

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201611231047745620-russia-yars-barguzin/


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    George1

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:01 pm

    Russia to Conduct Flight Tests of Missile for 'Nuclear Train' in 2019

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/201701191049778679-russia-nuclear-missile-test/


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    eehnie

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  eehnie on Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:50 pm

    George1 wrote:The Barguzin will be a major upgrade compared to the rail-based strategic missile complexes developed in the Soviet Union. They were removed from operational use in 2005.

    "Soviet-era platforms employed railway cars, different in size from standard rail carriages. The new missile complex fits onto standard rail gauge. The wagons carrying [the recently tested] missiles resemble a freight refrigerator car for instance," he explained.

    It is very interesting. And surely they will use standard railway cars of different types.


    Last edited by eehnie on Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    GarryB

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:55 am

    For those unbelievers... just for a moment think of a track that is a simple circle 1,000km across. At every 20km around that circle you can have a separate track that leads off the main track and turns out to 90 degrees from the main circle track that goes down into a ditch so there is dirt wall on all four sides of the train going into the siding... in other words every 20km along this 1,000km circle of track there is a completely safe place to park a train... even a nearby nuclear blast will not damage a train in such a rivetment as the blast wave will simply just pass over top... you could even make them deep enough to have a roof so no debris hits the train.

    This means to destroy 50 trains you need 50 warheads and the known location of the 50 trains carrying the nuclear weapons.

    If there are 1,000 trains on or near that track and they all look the same...

    The actual case is rather worse than this as we are not talking about a 1,000km circle of track with regular side tracks... out in siberia there are lots of places to put a train aside the main track simply so trains going in different directions can pass one another... there are tunnels too and plenty of traffic in each direction.

    More importantly you could fit the ICBM train with a couple of carriages carrying S-500 and S-400 if you wanted to...


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    AlfaT8

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  AlfaT8 on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:36 pm

    GarryB wrote:..........

    More importantly you could fit the ICBM train with a couple of carriages carrying S-500 and S-400 if you wanted to...

    Yea, i have been wondering about the possibility of Air-Defense trains, how that going?
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    GarryB

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:20 am

    If you tie the system in to the local OTH radar network and set up a few S-400 and S-500 systems around the place you could use semi static systems for the initial target detection, ID, and tracking and then use missiles on the trains themselves to destroy the incoming threats.

    Obviously it would be easier to intercept an incoming missile warhead if you are launching the interceptor directly from the item being targeted and if you can make the S-500 missile carriages look the same as the other carriages then all the better.

    In fact even fitting TOR missiles and using them against any conventional attempt to attack the trains... say a B-2 raid or whatever... especially as they could be directed at ground targets attempting a raid on the train too.


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    AlfaT8

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:If you tie the system in to the local OTH radar network and set up a few S-400 and S-500 systems around the place you could use semi static systems for the initial target detection, ID, and tracking and then use missiles on the trains themselves to destroy the incoming threats.

    Obviously it would be easier to intercept an incoming missile warhead if you are launching the interceptor directly from the item being targeted and if you can make the S-500 missile carriages look the same as the other carriages then all the better.

    In fact even fitting TOR missiles and using them against any conventional attempt to attack the trains... say a B-2 raid or whatever... especially as they could be directed at ground targets attempting a raid on the train too.

    We could speculate on this all day, but what i am interested in is whether there has been any real development of such systems?

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