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    BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

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    AlfaT8

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  AlfaT8 on Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:27 am

    Ok, from what i gather this "cancellation" is either, technical problems that could not be resolved (fat chance), a temporary Freeze to allocate more resources to something else, like Sarmat or Nodul or the MoD is actually satisfied with current platforms.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  miketheterrible on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:02 pm

    The system was apparently tested and tested with success. Then they shelved it. I would figure to allocate funds to far more important projects like it's hypersonic weapons system and the heavy ICBM. The roads are actually much harder to track and they cannot track every square inch at very specific points throughout the whole of Russia, compared to following a rail line. I would wager a bet to state that the rail based system would be cheaper in long run than the road mobile system, and just as effective but since it was disbanded then reinstated, it is rather more expensive now than before while platforms for the road based systems are already produced in numbers.

    No one is basing anything off of kindness or fantasies about working with the west KVS, and you know this. You seen the same interviews of Putin that I have. It is purely based upon need vs want. And while they want it, they don't need it over current systems.

    I would wager a bet that Sarmat and Rubhez are both far more important. Same with the Tu-160M2 and the corresponding tactical nukes, than this train.

    My theory? It was a good way to scare US into keeping START treaty. "We can build a mobile missile platform that is hard to find, cheap to make and follows civilian path, and do it rather quickly."
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:27 pm

    '
    Can mods please lock this tread down?

    Train is discontinued, there is nothing here now but BS.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:51 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:The system was apparently tested and tested with success. Then they shelved it.

    I think they do that with a lot of what they deem non-priority projects. They do the preparatory work and then either shelv it or continue at a very slow pace....a way to manage the defence money I guess
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:40 pm

    There r just 4 active railroad tunnels in RF, all in the E. Siberia/Far East, & they r far from each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Railway_tunnels_in_Russia
    Compare that with the PRC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_long_railway_tunnels_in_China

    More new tunnels in the Urals, S. Siberia (Altai) & N. Caucasus will cost $Bs to construct; it would be cheaper to start using Typhoon SSBN again as a stop gap! Even if 1 locomotive is needed with train weight reduced (I doubt by much!), to pull it, 1-2 more r needed in case 1-2 break down or sabotaged/hit by the enemy. Security, as the article I posted says, is also an issue.
    Also, why declaring it cancelled (all but officially, to be exact) if there's a high chance of it being restarted & losing face in the process when it does happen? Doesn't make sence. Using trains to move S-400/500s instead may be a better idea if they have large areas to defend &/ no good roads there.
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    GarryB

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:08 am

    It does not need tunnels.

    All it needs is a track siding that goes off to the side of the main track anywhere along its length, where they can dig up the ground and make the train go down into a culvert... much like the open topped aircraft shelters so that hitting one wont damage even the one beside it and when there are hundreds or even thousands you can't hit them all or even a reasonable percentage of them.

    Light camouflage structures could be positioned over top if you want to make them look empty no matter whether there is something inside or not.

    During peace time such sidings could be used to allow trains on a single rail to pass each other...
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:55 pm

    They can be detected & tracked by air & space based SARs:
    It is also useful in.. military surveillance, which includes strategic policy and tactical assessment. SAR can also be implemented as inverse SAR by observing a moving target over a substantial time with a stationary antenna. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic-aperture_radar#Motivation_and_applications
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacrosse_(satellite)
    Plenty of other entitties now use them, with more planned: https://www.unavco.org/instrumentation/geophysical/imaging/sar-satellites/sar-satellites.html

    While in motion, the train's brakes, engines, & lights IR/visual signatures, not to mention radio signals, encrypted or not, can also be picked up. Besides, monitoring cargo trains being assembled at major sorting points may reveal the short BM trains as they r not being broken up into cars before joining with other trains as regular 1s do. And sometimes trains collide/derail with disastrous results. In sum, they learned to count $ better; the risks & costs r too high to field them.

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