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    BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

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    magnumcromagnon
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:44 pm

    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:46 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    in most cases I agree but in this was yandex Smile

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:31 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    in most cases I agree but in this was yandex Smile
    yandex has a sense of humor- targets hit by molodets end up well done.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Mike E on Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:19 pm

    It's really going to use Yars? I figured the new smaller missile Rubezh RS-26 to be honest... 

    This will scare our politicians for sure. Twisted Evil

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:10 pm

    Good news indeed. Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs. I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration. Satellites can easily identify train cars. Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains. Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:50 pm

    Specific Trains are hard to detect  aming rest . Moreover russia is so huge how many sats will they use to keep track on every damn russian train .

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:49 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    It will make no difference as the auto-translation is technically correct; those are the literal translations for those Russian words (albeit Molodets should really be 'good man' rather than 'well done'; it's just typically in the same context as the English expression 'well done' is).

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:51 pm

    max steel wrote:Specific Trains are hard to detect  aming rest . Moreover russia is so huge how many sats will they use to keep track on every damn russian train .

    The trouble is that according to the infographic; the new ICBM trains will have 3 locomotives.
    This is a problem and it was a problem with the Molodets trains too; as most Russian trains of that size or even larger have only 2 locomotives.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:57 pm

    revamp few of russian civilian train with 3 locomotives then . whats the problem ? americans dont have rail based nuke systems

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:03 pm

    kvs wrote:Good news indeed.  Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs.   I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration.   Satellites can easily identify train cars.   Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains.   Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.

    I believe it was discussed earlier that the new train ICBM wouldn't need a special train car this time, and could just use a standard train car. BTW the future will likely include high-speed trains, such as 'fast-rail' and 'Maglev', you could come to your own conclusions what that'll mean for train ICBM's... Wink

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:28 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:Good news indeed.  Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs.   I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration.   Satellites can easily identify train cars.   Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains.   Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.

    I believe it was discussed earlier that the new train ICBM wouldn't need a special train car this time, and could just use a standard train car. BTW the future will likely include high-speed trains, such as 'fast-rail' and 'Maglev', you could come to your own conclusions what that'll mean for train ICBM's... Wink

    Nothing, at least not for this half of the century - ICBM trains are cargo trains, not passenger trains.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:33 pm

    Good thing about these type of stuff is that train networks would also go through tunneling systems like through Urals and the like. So if incase of a bombing to take place, the trains could be put into mountainous regions making it ever so much harder or impossible to strike.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:38 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Good thing about these type of stuff is that train networks would also go through tunneling systems like through Urals and the like.  So if incase of a bombing to take place, the trains could be put into mountainous regions making it ever so much harder or impossible to strike.

    I am not sure if this is about anti nuke resilience. Task is to fire own rockets before enemy´s one hit you. They need to be as much concealed as possible.

    BTW with new Silk Road and BAM2 will be helluva fun for US intelligence.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:42 pm

    so revsmp the cargo trains man . it aint that difficult for russia to hide the nuke trains among the rest   . if russian can disrupt usa recon sat folowing rusdian mobile nukes with their new ew system then why cant they do this ?

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:11 pm

    max steel wrote:so revsmp the cargo trains man . it aint that difficult for russia to hide the nuke trains among the rest   . if russian can disrupt usa recon sat folowing rusdian mobile nukes with their new ew system then why cant they do this ?

    Then trains wil exactly fulfill assume role of great deterrent pirat

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:10 am

    A tunnel would be ideal but to protect a train from a nuclear blast a simple siding with raised rivetments on either side like on an airfield would be enough... 1000 x cheaper and could be put on either side of a main line and could be used to rest trains and to allow trains to pass one another if needed.

    The real problem is that a train can move 100s of kms in an hour and an ICBM takes half an hour to get to Russia so a location at launch might be totally inaccurate by the time the warhead arrives... and what if the train has an S-500 carriage attached to it...  Twisted Evil


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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:A tunnel would be ideal but to protect a train from a nuclear blast a simple siding with raised rivetments on either side like on an airfield would be enough... 1000 x cheaper and could be put on either side of a main line and could be used to rest trains and to allow trains to pass one another if needed.

    The real problem is that a train can move 100s of kms in an hour and an ICBM takes half an hour to get to Russia so a location at launch might be totally inaccurate by the time the warhead arrives... and what if the train has an S-500 carriage attached to it...  Twisted Evil

    only danger I can see here is saboteur teams and PGSS missiles, but I am quite sure Russian military already foreseen counter measures.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:32 pm

    What saboteur teams ?

    PGSS missiles like the one in Romania nato planning to deploy ?

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:27 pm

    max steel wrote:What saboteur teams ?

    PGSS missiles like the one in Romania nato planning to deploy ?

    Nakidka.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:52 pm

    Nakidka, Kontrast or other (AFAIR there were also something similar made in Israel) is helpful in taking down PGSS missiles how ??


    Thermal camo might make the tank not glow in your thermals, but it most certainly doesn't make it invisible. The tank will always reflect (or absorb) thermal radiation different from its background which essentially makes it visible. Simplified analogy: How do you fight a tank that has camo-colored paint on it?

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:17 pm

    max steel wrote:Nakidka, Kontrast or other (AFAIR there were also something similar made in Israel) is helpful in taking down PGSS missiles  how ??

    Thermal camo might make the tank not glow in your thermals, but it most certainly doesn't make it invisible. The tank will always reflect (or absorb) thermal radiation different from its background which essentially makes it visible. Simplified analogy: How do you fight a tank that has camo-colored paint on it?
    video showing different applications of multi-spectral cammo Barracuda.


    as for your question, better and more diverse sensors. if you have issues spotting them on thermals turn to radars instead. however radars have problems with surface clutter, and this is all too easy to exploit by a tank's multispectral cammo to achieve radar stealth. more likely the only radars we will see on serial tanks are those of the APS and the way they track targets is by detecting and pinpointing sources of aimed fire to cue the thermals.
    once they are cued the target can be tracked and accurate fire can be done.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:31 pm

    My question is : -

    1) What do you mean by saboteur teams ?

    2)What are PGSS missiles ?
    3)they are sort of cruise missiles or what ?
    4)Are these the same missile ussa wants to deploy in Romania ?
    5)you can DETECT AND NEUTRALIZE PGSS MISSILES VIA SENSORS USED TO CAMOUFLAGE TANKS ?

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:16 pm

    What is the point of saboteur teams if you can't find the targets with satellites?

    remember the problems the US had finding Scud missiles in Iraq even though Iraq is not a huge country and they had total air control, not to mention it is further south so satellites in geostationary orbits get a better view and there was no one interfering with their satellites...

    How on earth are those saboteur teams supposed to track down and attack those trains before they find a siding... pull over and launch their missiles?

    Next you will be claiming they can send those very same teams to follow Russian SSBNs around the ocean able to sink them on command too....

    Nakidka defeats PGMs because if the munition can't see a target then it can't hit it. Just the same as optical guidance is effected by colour camouflage... if you can't see the man in the trees then you can't effectively shoot him...


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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  collegeboy16 on Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:20 pm

    max steel wrote:My question is : -

    1) What do you mean by saboteur teams ?
    this guy:

    + 20 good men. Razz sorry cant resist.
    but seriously unless spawned by console commands probability of a saboteur team getting close to an ICBM train is pretty damn negligible-
    like dude how are they supposed to make it deep in Russia where the rail missiles are kept if they cant use air transport in the first place due
    to the most advanced IADs in the world shooting them down. sure they could slog it on foot and jack vehicles but the last time someone did that
    they encountered a lot of resistance and failed their mission. ironically the Russian VDV could be suited to such tasks- they bring their own armor and heavy firepower that is enough for rear guard units.
    max steel wrote:
    2)What are PGSS missiles ?
    3)they are sort of cruise missiles or what ?
    4)Are these the same missile ussa wants to deploy  in Romania ?
    5)you can DETECT AND NEUTRALIZE PGSS MISSILES VIA SENSORS USED TO CAMOUFLAGE TANKS ?
    i think he meant PGS(precision global strike). could be cruise missiles, could be conventional warhead ICBMs.
    afaik the missiles in Romania are ABM but i could be wrong, havent checked the headlines for Romania recently.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:38 pm

    Who says that saboteurs have to be Seals or Green Berets? Why not bunch of pravosekov or Islamic suicide cr@p controlled by Saudis? In ever ycase Russian genrals did nt oshare your optimism guys (both you and Garry) and already BTR-80 are accompanying Yars launchers.

    2-3 monts ago there was info about new counter-saboteur APC with drones and accompanied by armed robots. With sniper and motion detectors in ranges like 2km.

    PGS AFAIK Prompt Global Strike - they do not have to send 1 missile but as many as they like if you can guess with enough accuracy where train CAN be.

    EW - well what about optical tracking form orbit?

    Gents unfortunately i cannot share your optimism.

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