Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Share
    avatar
    Viktor

    Posts : 5672
    Points : 6321
    Join date : 2009-08-25
    Age : 36
    Location : Croatia

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Viktor on Mon May 04, 2015 11:56 pm

    Nuclear trains are back in the game thumbsup

    Russia has completed the design of a missile train

    Draft project combat railway missile system "Barguzin" ready, told "Interfax" Russian Deputy Defense Minister for Armaments Yuri Borisov.

    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Backstreet´s back or better Bagruzins´ Trains back!

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:02 pm

    Train number zero


    Russia has completed the design of a super weapon
    The draft design of the combat railway missile system (missile train) "Barguzin" ready, said Deputy defense Minister for armaments Yuri Borisov.
    Soviet missile train "well Done" at the time, was so moved by the Pentagon that the U.S. did everything possible to make our country personally destroyed them. However, the Americans themselves had a truly great disservice. Russian "Barguzin" will become elusive and very powerful defence systems for strategic purposes.

    According to sources, "RG", the creation of the missile train goes according to plan, no difficulties. It is planned that the "Barguzin" of up to 5 missile regiments by 2020 will go into service of the strategic missile forces.

    The creation of a rail-mobile missile system was a necessary measure. The US refused their construction because of the high cost and technical complexity of the project, taking the strategic nuclear forces nuclear submarines. Joint reply of the USSR could not. The West managed to cover the entire world ocean network of acoustic stations and monitored the movement of our missile-carrying submarines. Of course, the Soviet submariners went to various lengths, and sometimes our submarines with nuclear missiles suddenly appeared where they weren't expecting. But the problem of global stealth is not solved. Because the basis of our strategic missile forces remained silo launchers. Then came the moving ground systems - "Pioneers" and "Poplar". But due to their size and characteristic shape reticent to call them was still on probation. And decided to place strategic missiles on railway platforms. Americans are not particularly worried. They felt that missile systems, tied to a railway track, to track from space will be very easy. And miscalculated.

    Outwardly, especially the top rail is practically no different from cars-refrigerators. However, playing a strategic two formulations of the locomotive. So many trains pulled by two locomotives. And huge in length and branching of the railway network of the USSR was allowed to get lost trains so that no the most sophisticated satellite intelligence is not fixed. At the railroad rail is called "train zero".

    Rocket trains "well Done" with three Intercontinental ballistic missile RT-23 utth were adopted in 1987. Each carried 10 warheads. They had a unique accuracy of hitting the target, for which he received in the West the name of the Scalpel. By 1991 was deployed 3 missile division, on 4 train in each. They were stationed in the Kostroma region, Krasnoyarsk and Perm regions.

    In accordance with the start-2 Treaty Russia by 2007, all rail, except for the two that have become Museum pieces, disposed of. Although many experts have argued that start-2 this is not required. Of course, the destruction of which had no analogues in the world of the complexes did not cause enthusiasm among the military, or among experts. But confirmed wisdom: a blessing in disguise. We know today that all went well, what overseas initially had no idea. Rockets "well Done" was designed and produced in Ukraine, in Dnipropetrovsk. So if under U.S. pressure, Russia has not dismantled its missile train, they would have hung up on us a heavy burden, because the maintenance and renewal of the resource under current conditions would become impossible. The rocketeers were able to design and start to prepare for the production of complexes, which all indicators will surpass those that were created in Yuzhnoye. Especially railway infrastructure for missile trains - reinforced paths in patrol areas, pads, the base is left.

    Each missile train "Barguzin" will be armed with 6 Intercontinental ballistic missile RS-24 "YARS". It is a land of sea "Maces". When was the beginning of its creation, no one could suggest that developing a missile system for the Navy and strategic rocket forces. "Bulava" - for the Navy, and "YARS" can be based on a wheeled chassis and railway platforms. Should thank the former chief of arms of Armed forces, Colonel-General Anatoly Sitnov. He insisted that was created not just a new missile for submarines, namely the unified multi-purpose complex, capable of operating at sea and on land.

    When the Americans about it know, it was too late to close the project failed. But nevertheless, surely, designers are constantly interfered with by some external force, as work on the Bulava were very hard. Today, it is not a secret. However, the staff of the Moscow Institute of thermal technology under the leadership of then-chief designer and CEO Yury Solomonova managed the almost impossible. It seems no accident that in the spring of Yuri Semenovich was awarded the title of Hero of Labor. That will consist of a new Russian missile train? In some ways it is very similar to a nuclear submarine of strategic purpose. Only more comfortable. All the wagons are sealed and very durable - even the explosion of a nuclear warhead within a few hundred metres from the composition should not bring the complex down. Autonomy - month. During this time the crew may leave the composition is water and food enough. During the day, "Barguzin" will be able to place up to 1000 km And can stay on the "abandoned" thread in the deep forest or hide in a disused tunnel. By the way, the tactics of combat use of the new rail-mobile missile systems, is likely to be different from that followed by "well Done".

    In a combat situation the rockets are in a few minutes. The firing range of 10 thousand km, the accuracy is within 100 meters of the target. Re - maneuvering, able to overcome any of the existing missile defense systems.

    To locate the rocket train during his combat duty for technical reconnaissance means is almost impossible. For rail-mobile missile system developed by the most advanced masking tools, a powerful electronic warfare systems and advanced methods of protection from terrorists.


    http://www.rg.ru/2015/06/04/barguzin.html


    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3207
    Points : 3321
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  flamming_python on Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:53 pm

    **sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:27 pm

    ¨
    To locate the rocket train during his combat duty for technical reconnaissance means is almost impossible. For rail-mobile missile system developed by the most advanced masking tools, a powerful electronic warfare systems and advanced methods of protection from terrorists.
    ¨

    this sounds for m most interesting. Armored train against RPGs or AGTMs? UAV or UCAV helos to watch terrain around against ambushes?

    With trains Russia will not have triad anymore. This is going to be nuclear quad Smile


    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    mea culpa! this is as you use just translator w/o corrections. BTW well done made me spill coffee over keyboard laughing, now I need a new one pirat
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4495
    Points : 4674
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:44 pm

    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:46 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    in most cases I agree but in this was yandex Smile
    avatar
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1184
    Points : 1201
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  collegeboy16 on Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:31 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    in most cases I agree but in this was yandex Smile
    yandex has a sense of humor- targets hit by molodets end up well done.
    avatar
    Mike E

    Posts : 2763
    Points : 2813
    Join date : 2014-06-19
    Location : Bay Area, CA

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Mike E on Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:19 pm

    It's really going to use Yars? I figured the new smaller missile Rubezh RS-26 to be honest... 

    This will scare our politicians for sure. Twisted Evil
    avatar
    kvs

    Posts : 3036
    Points : 3161
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:10 pm

    Good news indeed. Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs. I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration. Satellites can easily identify train cars. Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains. Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2979
    Points : 3011
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:50 pm

    Specific Trains are hard to detect  aming rest . Moreover russia is so huge how many sats will they use to keep track on every damn russian train .
    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3207
    Points : 3321
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:49 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:**sigh** stupid auto-translate

    "Well done" = Molodets
    "Mace" = Bulava
    "Poplar" = Topol

    I think 'Yandex' translator is vastly superior (in regards to translating Russian in to English) compared to 'Google' or 'Bing' translator, though Google is probably a better pure search engine, but that's neither here nor there.

    It will make no difference as the auto-translation is technically correct; those are the literal translations for those Russian words (albeit Molodets should really be 'good man' rather than 'well done'; it's just typically in the same context as the English expression 'well done' is).
    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3207
    Points : 3321
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:51 pm

    max steel wrote:Specific Trains are hard to detect  aming rest . Moreover russia is so huge how many sats will they use to keep track on every damn russian train .

    The trouble is that according to the infographic; the new ICBM trains will have 3 locomotives.
    This is a problem and it was a problem with the Molodets trains too; as most Russian trains of that size or even larger have only 2 locomotives.
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2979
    Points : 3011
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:57 pm

    revamp few of russian civilian train with 3 locomotives then . whats the problem ? americans dont have rail based nuke systems
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4495
    Points : 4674
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:03 pm

    kvs wrote:Good news indeed.  Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs.   I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration.   Satellites can easily identify train cars.   Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains.   Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.

    I believe it was discussed earlier that the new train ICBM wouldn't need a special train car this time, and could just use a standard train car. BTW the future will likely include high-speed trains, such as 'fast-rail' and 'Maglev', you could come to your own conclusions what that'll mean for train ICBM's... Wink
    avatar
    flamming_python

    Posts : 3207
    Points : 3321
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  flamming_python on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:28 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    kvs wrote:Good news indeed.  Land "submarines" with heavy ICBMs.   I would make sure to dress them up like passenger trains or generic freight
    trains without any indication of a special configuration.   Satellites can easily identify train cars.   Uncle Sam, the verminous slime,
    will have to cover the whole Russian rail system with nuclear attacks to take out these trains.   Without proper camouflage the
    targeting becomes vastly simpler.

    I believe it was discussed earlier that the new train ICBM wouldn't need a special train car this time, and could just use a standard train car. BTW the future will likely include high-speed trains, such as 'fast-rail' and 'Maglev', you could come to your own conclusions what that'll mean for train ICBM's... Wink

    Nothing, at least not for this half of the century - ICBM trains are cargo trains, not passenger trains.
    avatar
    sepheronx

    Posts : 7255
    Points : 7555
    Join date : 2009-08-06
    Age : 28
    Location : Canada

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:33 pm

    Good thing about these type of stuff is that train networks would also go through tunneling systems like through Urals and the like. So if incase of a bombing to take place, the trains could be put into mountainous regions making it ever so much harder or impossible to strike.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:38 pm

    sepheronx wrote:Good thing about these type of stuff is that train networks would also go through tunneling systems like through Urals and the like.  So if incase of a bombing to take place, the trains could be put into mountainous regions making it ever so much harder or impossible to strike.

    I am not sure if this is about anti nuke resilience. Task is to fire own rockets before enemy´s one hit you. They need to be as much concealed as possible.

    BTW with new Silk Road and BAM2 will be helluva fun for US intelligence.
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2979
    Points : 3011
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:42 pm

    so revsmp the cargo trains man . it aint that difficult for russia to hide the nuke trains among the rest   . if russian can disrupt usa recon sat folowing rusdian mobile nukes with their new ew system then why cant they do this ?
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:11 pm

    max steel wrote:so revsmp the cargo trains man . it aint that difficult for russia to hide the nuke trains among the rest   . if russian can disrupt usa recon sat folowing rusdian mobile nukes with their new ew system then why cant they do this ?

    Then trains wil exactly fulfill assume role of great deterrent pirat
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16334
    Points : 16965
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:10 am

    A tunnel would be ideal but to protect a train from a nuclear blast a simple siding with raised rivetments on either side like on an airfield would be enough... 1000 x cheaper and could be put on either side of a main line and could be used to rest trains and to allow trains to pass one another if needed.

    The real problem is that a train can move 100s of kms in an hour and an ICBM takes half an hour to get to Russia so a location at launch might be totally inaccurate by the time the warhead arrives... and what if the train has an S-500 carriage attached to it...  Twisted Evil


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:28 pm

    GarryB wrote:A tunnel would be ideal but to protect a train from a nuclear blast a simple siding with raised rivetments on either side like on an airfield would be enough... 1000 x cheaper and could be put on either side of a main line and could be used to rest trains and to allow trains to pass one another if needed.

    The real problem is that a train can move 100s of kms in an hour and an ICBM takes half an hour to get to Russia so a location at launch might be totally inaccurate by the time the warhead arrives... and what if the train has an S-500 carriage attached to it...  Twisted Evil

    only danger I can see here is saboteur teams and PGSS missiles, but I am quite sure Russian military already foreseen counter measures.
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2979
    Points : 3011
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:32 pm

    What saboteur teams ?

    PGSS missiles like the one in Romania nato planning to deploy ?
    avatar
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 4495
    Points : 4674
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:27 pm

    max steel wrote:What saboteur teams ?

    PGSS missiles like the one in Romania nato planning to deploy ?

    Nakidka.
    avatar
    max steel

    Posts : 2979
    Points : 3011
    Join date : 2015-02-12
    Location : South Pole

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:52 pm

    Nakidka, Kontrast or other (AFAIR there were also something similar made in Israel) is helpful in taking down PGSS missiles how ??


    Thermal camo might make the tank not glow in your thermals, but it most certainly doesn't make it invisible. The tank will always reflect (or absorb) thermal radiation different from its background which essentially makes it visible. Simplified analogy: How do you fight a tank that has camo-colored paint on it?
    avatar
    collegeboy16

    Posts : 1184
    Points : 1201
    Join date : 2012-10-05
    Age : 20
    Location : Roanapur

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  collegeboy16 on Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:17 pm

    max steel wrote:Nakidka, Kontrast or other (AFAIR there were also something similar made in Israel) is helpful in taking down PGSS missiles  how ??

    Thermal camo might make the tank not glow in your thermals, but it most certainly doesn't make it invisible. The tank will always reflect (or absorb) thermal radiation different from its background which essentially makes it visible. Simplified analogy: How do you fight a tank that has camo-colored paint on it?
    video showing different applications of multi-spectral cammo Barracuda.


    as for your question, better and more diverse sensors. if you have issues spotting them on thermals turn to radars instead. however radars have problems with surface clutter, and this is all too easy to exploit by a tank's multispectral cammo to achieve radar stealth. more likely the only radars we will see on serial tanks are those of the APS and the way they track targets is by detecting and pinpointing sources of aimed fire to cue the thermals.
    once they are cued the target can be tracked and accurate fire can be done.

    Sponsored content

    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:36 pm