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    Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

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    AbsoluteZero
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    Russia develops New Nuke Warhead?

    Post  AbsoluteZero on Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:27 am

    Hi Guys I've been visiting your forums for a long time now but only decided to register today, Anyway I came up with an interesting article from RT.com about a new "Warhead" developed for Russia's Strategic Missile Forces, the article mentions something about the elimination of a "bus" thats been an important component of all MIRVed missile systems, if so, then it would appear that this new system is quite revolutionary indeed..

    Russia has developed a stand-alone nuclear warhead capable of penetrating any existing or projecting missile defense system, informs Interfax news agency.

    ­According to Yury Solomonov, the chief designer of the Moscow Heat Engineering Institute, this unique system was successfully tested last year.

    Unlike the payload of all previously-developed intercontinental ballistic missiles, the new weapon can hit several targets located at great distance from each other.

    This means that the current multiple warhead dispensing mechanism called “bus”, a segment that delivers warheads to the destined drop zone used in all modern missiles, will be eliminated, because in the new system, once the terminal stage vehicle of ICBM booster does its job, the missile separates into warheads with “individual means of delivery to destination.”

    He said that 30 years ago such a system was discussed and labeled science fiction.

    The new innovative technology will “put a full stop on all discussions regarding our countermeasures towards non-existent antiballistic missile defense system of our potential enemy,” Solomonov is cited as having said.

    Now engineers need to adopt the new warhead to the existing ballistic missiles on alert. This work will take several years and will include launches of experimental Topol-E missile and the following modernization of the Topol-M and RS-24 Yars MIRV missiles that will constitute the backbone of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces in the nearest future.

    Source: RT.com

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Viktor on Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:00 am

    I hope hes thinking of MARV.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:14 pm

    The bus on a standard nuclear missile is like a space shuttle in that it can release objects and can manouver itself in space.
    The MIRV bus basically manouvers so that it is falling toward the target and releases a warhead and then manouvers again to another target and releases another warhead till all the warheads are released to fall on ballistic paths to their targets.

    To get rid of the bus you would need fairly autonomous little warheads that are able to perform significant manouvers on their own.

    In theory it actually makes a lot of sense because flying along a trajectory a bus manouvering to release the first warhead is carrying the weight of all the warheads which means the most fuel is used on the first warhead release. All of a sudden the bus is 300kg or so lighter so the next manouver should be easier etc etc till all the missiles are released.

    By getting rid of the bus and adding manouver capability to the missiles should mean targets much further from the flight path should be able to be attacked because as soon as the last stage has fired the warhead package simply coasts through empty vacuum so releasing a warhead then even flying off at an angle of a few degrees means thousands of kms at 10,000km range. This of course means that each warhead needs to be able to find its target on its own where previously only the bus needed to do that.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  nightcrawler on Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:13 pm

    This surely will create a bulky system!!
    In theory it actually makes a lot of sense because flying along a trajectory a bus manouvering to release the first warhead is carrying the weight of all the warheads which means the most fuel is used on the first warhead release. All of a sudden the bus is 300kg or so lighter so the next manoeuvre should be easier etc etc till all the missiles are released.
    This advantage will be offset by a rather 'common' launch/control mechanism as is provided by bus; which I think be more capable to pack more warheads than this independent concept

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:12 am

    If you want your warheads to manoeuvre during the terminal phase of their flight then they will need thrusters anyway... putting them in a single bus during their flight in space would create an opportunity for an enemy to hit all your warheads in one shot, so I suspect the idea is that instead of one bus as a target that each warhead is released with the last stage to separately and independently home in on their targets to manoeuvre under their own power to greatly multiply the targets needing interception while also widely separating the targets for any interceptor system so that an interceptor missile can't simply use its own bus for multi targeting warheads.

    This will take up more space, but not necessarily that much more weight. An extra layer of warheads could be added on top in an extended fairing.

    I think the greatly increased target numbers is enough of a benefit on its own to justify the choice. If you draw a line over the north pole leading down over the US aimed for... say Florida and you mark 5 targets say 200km either side of the flight path you will see that an interception system in Alaska will likely have a chance to intercept the bus over Canada still holding all 6 warheads whereas with no bus it would be 6 separate warheads before it is even over the north pole.

    6 times the targets with the added bonus that more widely separated targets can be hit and as they are terminally guided the CEP often goes from 200m to less than 50m that harder targets can be engaged where necessary.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  nightcrawler on Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:11 pm

    I think the greatly increased target numbers is enough of a benefit on its own to justify the choice. If you draw a line over the north pole leading down over the US aimed for... say Florida and you mark 5 targets say 200km either side of the flight path you will see that an interception system in Alaska will likely have a chance to intercept the bus over Canada still holding all 6 warheads whereas with no bus it would be 6 separate warheads before it is even over the north pole.
    Thnx for elaborating; but independent propulsion system now guiding each warhead will not only take more space also will increase weight. In bus configuration here exists nominally powered retro-rockets to manoeuvre warheads at terminal stages; but now they must be powered by larger more powerful independent propulsion systems or may be augmented by some independent guidance systems as opposed to when 'bus' was present to guide them precisely over a ballistic trajectory

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:10 pm

    But the MARV warheads need terminal guidance and some way to manouver in space anyway... otherwise it would be easy to defeat them simply by hitting them in space before they enter the atmosphere.

    By making all the missiles autonomous it means you no longer need a bus or its propulsion system or its guidance system either so you increase the weight of the individual warheads but remove the weight of the bus.

    It also means decoys are deployed earlier and so have an effect earlier too.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:29 pm

    Oh I am a late entrant to this thread but this is my favourite topic , I have mentioned this on another board , they are developing a new charge (TN) and new RV.

    So what they will get is a lighter warhead with same or better yeald and a new RV , the new RV will be an autonomous one , which carries small fuel , control surface ( most likely jet control surfaces ), guidance and warhead.

    Most of the manouvering are done in space , any manouvering done in atmosphere will slow it down and it will impart tremendous G on the warhead , so any atmospheric manouvering is at best non existant , the only manouvering if it will every do will be to correct its terminal accuracy , for which it does not need much.

    These warhead are autonomous and have guidance of their own making it far accurate then the free fall provided by bus ejected passive RV.

    Most of the anti-ABM manouvering will take in space as most percentage of ABM are space based , one the small RV is gravitating towards the earth is it coming at a speed of Mach 18-22 and any terminal interceptor has a very tight job to intercept it , considering RV are small target and Russians have developed decoys that falls along with RV into atmosphere without slowing down , which means any ABM has to track the RV from Decoys which is almost impossible , so a terminal interceptor has to hit all the RV and Decoys thinking its the real warhead.

    All in all I was expecting this would come eventually and its very much doable.

    Plans are to refit the entire current range of Ballistic Missile SS-18,19,Topol with the new charge and RV and they are testing this currently on a modified Topol.

    check this http://russianforces.org/blog/2010/12/topol_launch_from_kapustin_yar.shtml
    http://vpk.name/news/48901_v_rossii_razrabotali_unikalnyie_yadernyie_boegolovki_neuyazvimyie_dlya_lyuboi_pro.html



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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Pervius on Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:12 pm

    Sounds like they figured out THAAD would hit the bus so they designed something to split up into many self guided objects to nullify THAAD missile defense? Well the US had to see that coming. Looks like THAAD's not going to get much done.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:01 am

    Just based on what THAAD stands for I would suggest it was not designed to intercept ICBMs.

    Its purpose is to intercept theatre based BMs like Scud et al.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  nightcrawler on Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:58 am

    Austin wrote:Oh I am a late entrant to this thread but this is my favourite topic , I have mentioned this on another board , they are developing a new charge (TN) and new RV.

    So what they will get is a lighter warhead with same or better yeald and a new RV , the new RV will be an autonomous one , which carries small fuel , control surface ( most likely jet control surfaces ), guidance and warhead.

    Most of the manouvering are done in space , any manouvering done in atmosphere will slow it down and it will impart tremendous G on the warhead , so any atmospheric manouvering is at best non existant , the only manouvering if it will every do will be to correct its terminal accuracy , for which it does not need much.



    Rules of the game are changing with Airborne Lasers [no out-manoeuvring needed]. The next generation will use a solid state or FEL laser. The current one is a chemical laser that uses large tanks of extremely toxic chemicals.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:07 pm

    nightcrawler wrote:Rules of the game are changing with Airborne Lasers [no out-manoeuvring needed]. The next generation will use a solid state or FEL laser. The current one is a chemical laser that uses large tanks of extremely toxic chemicals.

    Airborne laser can only hit targets in low atmosphere not space , and laser for ABM is as hyped today as it was during Regan Era Star Wars

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:39 am

    I saw a surgical laser about 12 years ago that impressed the heck out of me.
    It was a hand held laser like a huge pen, but it had an arm attached to it like a dentists drill that led back to a large box the size of a small suitcase for the power.
    The laser was very powerful... as a demonstration the guy showing it pressed the laser to one side of a fairly thick telephone book and the time between when he pressed the button and when the laser burst through was a fraction of a second.

    Anyway... he described a new type of heart surgery to help with a condition where the muscle had enlarged and the thick walls were over working and the small internal volume meant lots of work for the muscle but little blood was actually being pushed around the body. The solution was to briefly stop the heart and place the laser on the outer muscle and fire short bursts. The laser burst through the heart tissue like it was tissue paper but the blood inside the heart actually stopped the laser going right through... the beam energy couldn't pass through the blood so it heated it up instead of continuing through as an intense beam. Due to the intense heat of the laser on the surface of the heart the hole cauterised itself but the inner muscle was burnt away and as the muscle contracted the inner muscle came together. This meant that for each hole burned into the heart a new area for more blood was created. After doing it a dozen times the internal volume for blood had more than doubled despite not actually cutting out tissue and when restarted it worked normally.

    Without the laser treatment that patient would have needed a heart donor or a pine box.

    Anyway what I am saying is that the performance of a laser is very strongly determined by the target it is hitting and lots of different materials can be used to either block a laser beam or dissipate its energy to defeat it.

    To be able to hit Russian ICBMs with ABLs you will need to find some way of getting large easy flying targets inside Russian airspace... by the time they are over the north pole they will be free flying missile warheads and decoys... that is the purpose of the TOPOL-M with its high energy fast burning boosters that only burn a few minutes to reduce the time to intercept them, and the purpose of new warheads.

    It should also be pointed out that anything you can put in a plane or in a satellite in space, you can put on the ground and supply with hundreds or thousands of times more power... to shoot down enemy platforms with lasers on them.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  nightcrawler on Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:40 pm

    Also plane is to fly 24hrs a day or a brigade of it continuing 24/7 like a plant engineer
    costly...

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:32 pm

    http://www.iwar.org.uk/rma/resources/energy-weapons/mowthorpe02.html

    A solid fuelled booster could probably absorb, without disruption, approximately 10 kJ/cm2 on its skin,4 the energy from a 1 second illumination at 10kW/cm2. The application of an ablative material would probably double or maybe even triple the lethal energy required. It is sometimes argued that the use of a mirrored reflective coating to the booster would deflect the laser, but the abrasion during the boost phase could cause it to lose its reflective capabilities. Another method of countering lasers is spinning the missile, which could raise its hardness by a factor of three5 by shortening the period that any single spot on the missile is illuminated by the laser. However, it is possible that the uniform heating around the spinning circumference of the missile could introduce a lethal mechanism that could also destroy the booster.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:30 pm

    Also plane is to fly 24hrs a day or a brigade of it continuing 24/7 like a plant engineer
    costly...

    The first warning of an attack could be the missile launch itself so you really do need a plane in the air all the time for real protection.

    This is not only expensive, but a sneaky enemy could simply watch your air patrol patterns and the weather and time the attack for the precise second that you are least ready... ie when it gets cloudy or stormy, or during the period when one plane leaves duty and the next is on its way to replace it.

    However, it is possible that the uniform heating around the spinning
    circumference of the missile could introduce a lethal mechanism that
    could also destroy the booster.

    A combination of high energy short burn rockets to minimise the vulnerable boost phase, a spinning rocket, ablative material with reflective elements within it could be used in addition to actual targeting of the laser platform with you own lasers should be enough to minimise the effectiveness of a defence.

    The first missile launch might come from a civilian launch facility so the laser system needs to have humans in the loop to prevent your defence system shooting down a commercial satellite launch... blocking that part of the system might be the cheapest and easiest way to counter it.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:27 am

    Considering lately we have seen Russian A-60 flying , they would be conducting some experiments with the platform and its laser.

    It would be interesting to see laser replacing todays SHORAD/VSHORAD/CIWS systems in the decades to come , it would remain effective for short range role and would be fast enough to take care of many missile at a given point in time then any fast missile could deal with.


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:31 am

    The best use for lasers at the moment would be for very fast manoeuvring targets and also for enemy laser platforms.

    Right now for Shorad missiles and guns do the job and are cheaper.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  Austin on Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:07 pm

    Yuri confirms sophistication of decoys on modern ICBM

    link

    Russian Designer Yuri Solomon view on American ABM

    Yuri Solomon questioned the effectiveness and number of U.S. development of missile defense. "Those technical means by which Americans are trying to solve issues to intercept an object moving at a speed exceeding 10 kilometers per second, this task is technically unsolvable", - says Solomon. In real conditions of combat use with the surrounding blocks of tens or hundreds of false elements completely identical warheads on the entire set of signs of recognition (dynamic, thermal and radar characteristics), he said, to solve the problem of intercepting in the disposable time is impossible.


    European missile defense system with mobile elements in the ships of the "Aegis", according to chief designer , is designed to work on the goals of operational-tactical and tactical level and, in principle, unable to capture the strategic objectives. "I am sure that they are operational-tactical missiles can not intercept", - added Solomon, referring to the very low (about five percent) of the effectiveness of U.S. systems, Patriot, they displayed during the Gulf War of 1991. "All these" Aegis "for strategic nuclear forces of Russia do not pose absolutely no threat" - he says.


    Yuri just confirms that part that it would be difficult to distinguish real warhead with decoys due to sophistication of decoys and added to that the problem of time which is quite key for sucessfull BM interception

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    Russian missiles will fall into a demographic pit - Thoughts on this article

    Post  TheRealist on Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:11 pm

    Russian missiles will fall into a demographic pit

    http://www.rusbiznews.com/news/n1402.html

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:59 am

    Rubbish.

    For the last 20 years (pre 2008) the Russian military and the Russian Military Industrial Complex (MIC) was on a go slow with little work for the MIC except for a few export customers.

    Now there is money and there is the export market, which has only increased, but this is compounded by a sudden domestic demand for everything now.

    The shortage is perfectly understandable as before 2008 when there was little demand there was little sense in training for jobs that simply weren't there.

    Fighter pilots were driving cabs in Moscow because there was no need for pilots.

    Now you will find that as the requirements increase that young Russians will be able to make decisions regarding training and education and they will start to fill the vacancies.

    All perfectly normal.


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  TheRealist on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:41 pm

    I find it contradictory in a number of media outlets like Aljazeera and BBC constantly underestimating the Russian military industry. In my view people who underestimate the Russian military would seem to regret in that in the end.


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:12 pm

    How can the UK make Brits feel better about themselves if there is no one to give as an example as being worse off than they are...

    Things are bad here... but at least you don't live in Russia... right?

    Used to be the same in Africa too, but apart from regular famines caused by criminal governments who really don't care about their own people, there is actually more poverty in some parts of Asia... of course there is enormous wealth in Asia too.


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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  TR1 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:45 pm

    TheRealist wrote:I find it contradictory in a number of media outlets like Aljazeera and BBC constantly underestimating the Russian military industry. In my view people who underestimate the Russian military would seem to regret in that in the end.


    BBC reporting about Russia is in general trash.

    Very entertaining though.

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    Re: Russian Nuclear Weapons Industry

    Post  GarryB on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:12 am

    The irony is that poms tend to get a bit precious when you turn the old stupid stereotypes back at them.

    Like calling all British people English the way they call all Soviets Russian...


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