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    BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

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    Militarov
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Militarov on Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:50 pm

    GarryB wrote:Rail based ICBMs are actually better than road mobile ICBMs because although rail models are limited to rails they can also move rather faster and there are plenty of rails and sidings in Russia to move to.

    Even a side track with earth mounds built up on either side and the front and rear would be enough to protect it from anything but a very near miss... and the west does not have enough nuclear weapons to cover every 1000km of Russian rail track let alone every 200kms.

    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  kvs on Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:31 am

    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Rail based ICBMs are actually better than road mobile ICBMs because although rail models are limited to rails they can also move rather faster and there are plenty of rails and sidings in Russia to move to.

    Even a side track with earth mounds built up on either side and the front and rear would be enough to protect it from anything but a very near miss... and the west does not have enough nuclear weapons to cover every 1000km of Russian rail track let alone every 200kms.

    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

    The key is that the enemy cannot target the rail ICBMs like bridges since it does not know where on the rails they are at any given instant
    and even if the enemy manages to have spies pin their locations (very doubtful) and target them with a first strike they can be moved while
    the enemy ICBMs are incoming. So they are just as useful as road mobile ICBMs but can be heavier. They remove the first strike advantage.
    There is no need for these mobile ICBMs to be shuffled around the whole territory in some ergodic domain filling operation. The main thing is
    to be able to move them far enough from any point of impact of enemy warheads.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Austin on Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:59 am

    I dont think the news of cancellation of Rail Based ICBM is true , just few days back they mentioned they were training crew for that system.

    Lets hear the official verison , Pavel lately has been aggresively part of Atlantist agenda , His pay master must have told him so.

    Else who post news like Bulava test failed when there is no offical information of bulava launch

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/03/salvo_bulava_launch_from_vladi.shtml
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:34 am

    Well the website is good no second thoughts on that but as Austin said even I noticed the same for past few months ( since syrian intervention) Podvig has been aggresively pushing the Atlantist agenda. I go by the name ' Dan Dare' and I posted my views on Status-6 Article but later i saw my comment disappeared. When I was reasoning with other posters on US ABM in Europe, SM-3 Missiles up-gradation etc.

    Since then they don't post my comment directly , it goes to blog owner for approval but never gets approved. I asked for official statement/proof regarding cancellation of 4202 programme.

    I read the same Bulava missile failure thread and again it was a disappointment. First Bulava Missile did fail that's true you can check the Bulava SLBM thread but he claimed second missile failed too which is preposterous , quoted article seemed so incoherent that I would hardly call it reliable. Ryan Alt is a voice of reason there.
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:12 am

    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

    Not true... there are plenty of covered railways they could be hidden in... including underground metros... and there could be various tunnels in which they could be hidden.

    The critical thing is how much they can be made to look like other innocent traffic.

    Destruction of rail lines will effect mobility but not prevent them launching their weapons...

    The reality is that not being a fixed location easily targeted means rail mounted ICBMs are largely protected from a retaliatory nuke strike... their best feature come to the fore in an enemy mounted first strike.

    The ability of the enemy to locate and identify ICBMs on trains in real time and actually deliver a strike to actually destroy them hinges on total air superiority and the enemy not interfering with their space and air based recon assets... they could not even achieve that in Iraq.

    It is a question of finding a needle in a haystack of needles... or needlestack... on a very short deadline because once it is clear you are trying to destroy them you hand the real first strike capability to your enemy...

    The key is that the enemy cannot target the rail ICBMs like bridges since it does not know where on the rails they are at any given instant
    and even if the enemy manages to have spies pin their locations (very doubtful) and target them with a first strike they can be moved while
    the enemy ICBMs are incoming. So they are just as useful as road mobile ICBMs but can be heavier. They remove the first strike advantage.
    There is no need for these mobile ICBMs to be shuffled around the whole territory in some ergodic domain filling operation. The main thing is
    to be able to move them far enough from any point of impact of enemy warheads.

    And even a small siding built like a rivetment on a runway for aircraft will require a near miss to be effective.... 40 or 50 sidings with tunnels could be used... some of them could even be made public so passengers could stretch their legs and get a meal or something...

    Road mobile missiles can't just drive down any road they don't corner like most vehicles and need long sweeping curves to turn so they don't just drive anywhere they like...


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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:41 pm

    Militarov wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Rail based ICBMs are actually better than road mobile ICBMs because although rail models are limited to rails they can also move rather faster and there are plenty of rails and sidings in Russia to move to.

    Even a side track with earth mounds built up on either side and the front and rear would be enough to protect it from anything but a very near miss... and the west does not have enough nuclear weapons to cover every 1000km of Russian rail track let alone every 200kms.

    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

    1.) It's been stated already they cant cover 100% of Russia's territory, they don't have enough satellites to cover ever km of Russian rail 24/7 365. You seem to completely forget that not all rail is in the open, some of it's underground, and what's stops the use of decoys, disguises, Nakidka kits, electromagnetic opaque aerosol fog generators? What's stops the use of hidden rail and train bunkers with retractable and mechanized foliage, shrubbery, vegetation, and landscape to disguise it's location?

    2.) It'll be orders of magnitude easier to identify a Topol-M launcher, which is unmistakable, compared to the new rail ICBM because unlike the old version the cargo freight will be indistinguishable from civilian cargo freight. You also seem to forgotten that an ICBM train will have an enormous payload capacity, so what's stops the development of freight container versions of Panstir-S1, S-400, S-500, A-235/Nudol utilizing ROFAR OHR, or even offensive systems like Kornet-M, 120 mm howizer, AS-40 grenade launcher, Vasilek 82mm automatic mortar, or some 57 mm cannons?

    3.) There's also the potential of creating fast rail or even maglev equivalents in the future, and KRET has stated that they are looking in to developing ROFAR for civil trains to detect anomaly's in the way of freight trains or in the track itself, it wouldn't be stretch that the military version (combined with powerful IRST optics) would have a ROFAR to add long range vision, with high accuracy and resolution to prevent any sabotage from the air or on the ground.
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:02 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    But they have significant disadvantages in areas where you can deploy them, and enemy sort of has alot easier job detecting them as he knows they simply HAVE to be somewhere on railroad Smile Destruction of key points on railroads like bridges and major crossroads can severely reduce its effectiveness. But still i dont mind having such platform just for sake of diversity.

    Not true... there are plenty of covered railways they could be hidden in... including underground metros... and there could be various tunnels in which they could be hidden.

    The critical thing is how much they can be made to look like other innocent traffic.

    Destruction of rail lines will effect mobility but not prevent them launching their weapons...

    The reality is that not being a fixed location easily targeted means rail mounted ICBMs are largely protected from a retaliatory nuke strike... their best feature come to the fore in an enemy mounted first strike.

    The ability of the enemy to locate and identify ICBMs on trains in real time and actually deliver a strike to actually destroy them hinges on total air superiority and the enemy not interfering with their space and air based recon assets... they could not even achieve that in Iraq.

    It is a question of finding a needle in a haystack of needles... or needlestack... on a very short deadline because once it is clear you are trying to destroy them you hand the real first strike capability to your enemy...

    The key is that the enemy cannot target the rail ICBMs like bridges since it does not know where on the rails they are at any given instant
    and even if the enemy manages to have spies pin their locations (very doubtful) and target them with a first strike they can be moved while
    the enemy ICBMs are incoming. So they are just as useful as road mobile ICBMs but can be heavier. They remove the first strike advantage.
    There is no need for these mobile ICBMs to be shuffled around the whole territory in some ergodic domain filling operation. The main thing is
    to be able to move them far enough from any point of impact of enemy warheads.



    And even a small siding built like a rivetment on a runway for aircraft will require a near miss to be effective.... 40 or 50 sidings with tunnels could be used... some of them could even be made public so passengers could stretch their legs and get a meal or something...

    Road mobile missiles can't just drive down any road they don't corner like most vehicles and need long sweeping curves to turn so they don't just drive anywhere they like...

    There will have to be some differences in design between normal railcars and device we are talking about. Similar? Sure. Same platform? Sure. Identical? Unlikely.

    I dont think there are many that secure tunnels on railroad, especially not in Siberian part of railroad, its mostly quite flat, open field, tundra.

    Railroad limits operation areas alot, you literally removed 99,999% of Russian territory from the search list. I never said its easy to find them, however its alot easier than its with Topol-M/Jars as it can be almost anywhere, especially in Far East in wast flatland. Its like you operate nuclear submarine in a river. Sure, it has alot higher chances of surviving first strike than a silo based ICBMs... but where are you going to keep your railroad ICBMs in peacetime? On train station in Novosibirsk? I dont think so. They will most likely be grouped in 3-4 bases in Russia with railroad access with occasional drills, rest of the time they will spend in base grouped up, they will lose its main point.
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:41 pm

    Militarov wrote: There will have to be some differences in design between normal railcars and device we are talking about. Similar? Sure. Same platform? Sure. Identical? Unlikely.

    I dont think there are many that secure tunnels on railroad, especially not in Siberian part of railroad, its mostly quite flat, open field, tundra. Railroad limits operation areas alot, you literally removed 99,999% of Russian territory from the search list. I never said its easy to find them, however its alot easier than its with Topol-M/Jars as it can be almost anywhere, especially in Far East in wast flatland. Its like you operate nuclear submarine in a river.

    Well maybe not since war-planners assume enough similarity location can be kept enough secret. i presume they havew bette rview on situation then all armchair generals here with all respect gents. Smile

    Militarov wrote:
    Sure, it has alot higher chances of surviving first strike than a silo based ICBMs... but where are you going to keep your railroad ICBMs in peacetime? On train station in Novosibirsk? I dont think so. They will most likely be grouped in 3-4 bases in Russia with railroad access with occasional drills, rest of the time they will spend in base grouped up, they will lose its main point.


    OK you think but do you have and data to support your thesis? the idea of train is to be in constant motion not in base. i would prefer to look at nuke trains via number total traffic in Russian Railways:

    Exact data to be checked but this is just an order of magnitude.
    ~90,000 km tracks (AFAIK growing)
    2,5 bln ton transported yearly
    no of locomotives ~2000

    Do you think if amount couple of hundred trains running simultaneously it is s easy find right one? Us cannot launch hundreds of missiles just to disable all suspects...
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:59 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote: There will have to be some differences in design between normal railcars and device we are talking about. Similar? Sure. Same platform? Sure. Identical? Unlikely.

    I dont think there are many that secure tunnels on railroad, especially not in Siberian part of railroad, its mostly quite flat, open field, tundra. Railroad limits operation areas alot, you literally removed 99,999% of Russian territory from the search list. I never said its easy to find them, however its alot easier than its with Topol-M/Jars as it can be almost anywhere, especially in Far East in wast flatland. Its like you operate nuclear submarine in a river.

    Well maybe not since war-planners assume enough similarity location can be kept enough secret. i presume they havew bette rview on situation then all armchair generals here with all respect gents.  Smile

    Militarov wrote:
    Sure, it has alot higher chances of surviving first strike than a silo based ICBMs... but where are you going to keep your railroad ICBMs in peacetime? On train station in Novosibirsk? I dont think so. They will most likely be grouped in 3-4 bases in Russia with railroad access with occasional drills, rest of the time they will spend in base grouped up, they will lose its main point.


    OK you think but do you have and data to support your thesis? the idea of train is to be in constant motion not in base. i would prefer to look at  nuke trains via number total traffic in Russian Railways:

    Exact data to be checked but this is just an order of magnitude.
    ~90,000 km tracks (AFAIK growing)
    2,5 bln ton transported yearly
    no of locomotives ~2000

    Do you think if amount couple of hundred trains running simultaneously it is s easy find right one? Us cannot launch hundreds of missiles just to disable all suspects...

    You know, "War-planners" came up with ideas like ICBMs being dropped from transport aircraft and submarine aircraft carriers too... and many other useless junk though time. Just coz someone with 3 stars and 3 years of college says something is great, doesnt rly mean it actually is. ICBM carrying train is good idea, it gives more versatility to the Strategic branch, but it has many flaws too.

    Noone in right mind is going to have 10-20 ICBMs on the move at any present time on railroad, noone would allow such thing, not even in Russia today, unless its some sort of very low frequency line or military only operated parts of railroad which i assume still exist. One thing is Jars, it can at worse flip over, you bring few machines to flip it back, now...derailing while moving 100km/h with 6 ICBMs on your back...you figure.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:45 pm

    Militarov wrote: You know, "War-planners" came up with ideas like ICBMs being dropped from transport aircraft and submarine aircraft carriers too... and many other useless junk though time. Just coz someone with 3 stars and 3 years of college says something is great, doesnt rly mean it actually is. ICBM carrying train is good idea, it gives more versatility to the Strategic branch, but it has many flaws too.

    There is perfectly good or bad solution. Train as all solutions has set of attributes which can be advantageous or disadvantageous. Apparently the first class prevails.

    [/quote]
    Noone in right mind is going to have 10-20 ICBMs on the move at any present time on railroad, noone would allow such thing, not even in Russia today, unless its some sort of very low frequency line or military only operated parts of railroad which i assume still exist.
    [/quote]

    Why not? why no one?


    One thing is Jars, it can at worse flip over, you bring few machines to flip it back, now...derailing while moving 100km/h with 6 ICBMs on your back...you figure.



    True, train can derail but sub can sink...ICBM can crash in silo and bomber crash during flight..BTW how many ICBM trains derailed in Soviet union?

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:09 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote:  You know, "War-planners" came up with ideas like ICBMs being dropped from transport aircraft and submarine aircraft carriers too... and many other useless junk though time. Just coz someone with 3 stars and 3 years of college says something is great, doesnt rly mean it actually is. ICBM carrying train is good idea, it gives more versatility to the Strategic branch, but it has many flaws too.

    There is perfectly good or bad solution. Train as all solutions has set of attributes which can be advantageous or disadvantageous. Apparently the first class prevails.

    Noone in right mind is going to have 10-20 ICBMs on the move at any present time on railroad, noone would allow such thing, not even in Russia today, unless its some sort of very low frequency line or military only operated parts of railroad which i assume still exist.
    [/quote]

    Why not? why no one?


    One thing is Jars, it can at worse flip over, you bring few machines to flip it back, now...derailing while moving 100km/h with 6 ICBMs on your back...you figure.



    True, train can derail but sub can sink...ICBM can crash in silo and bomber crash  during flight..BTW how many ICBM trains derailed in Soviet union?

    [/quote]

    So wait... you would circle around your country 20 ICBM armed trains at every present moment? I am not sure if you are joking or not here. Big numbers theory says something very, very bad shall happen if such practice is kept for prolonged period of time Smile. For love of God took my unit 3 weeks to set train to transport 75 SAM HE-frag warheads for transport to be destroyed....

    Sure, sub can sink, but where? 6km deep in mid of Atlantic where it poses little or no threat to anyone. However train wreck 300km from Moscow is going to be one a hell of an issue...

    RT-23 Molodets were barely moved at all in Russia, they were in depots due to lack of money, from what i have read they were mostly static post 1992. and only few dozen cars was ever made (1 missile per car), locomotives were standard civilian ones. Which means they were in some normal operating state only 3 or 4 years. So experience from USSR is actually almost unexisting.

    ICBM in silo is actually the safest possible way of keeping nuclear weapons. Well, thats why bombers almost never fly with actual nuclear warheads.
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:11 pm

    Militarov why did it take so long to load the 75 KG warheads?
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:16 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Militarov why did it take so long to load the 75 KG warheads?

    Eh...loading itself took 2-3 days. Why so long? Well, S-75 Dvina warheads plus its fuel, 75 pieces in total. You have to work in full protective suit, gloves...eye cover etc. Then special railcars were required, after that they were towed for inspection, nothing could be done without firefighters and sappers being present. Then when we loaded it, special duty locomotive came, and towed it for an inspection, which took time, then you wait for Railway company to give you special permission and route to move military equipment, especially dangerous like this. Then we had to provide escort of it.... whole process took almost 3 weeks in total i belive to move load some 150km.
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  VladimirSahin on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:52 pm

    Makes sense, 3 weeks still seems quite long though. Well Thanks for sharing your experience, Looking forward to other experiences. yes sir
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Militarov on Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:58 pm

    VladimirSahin wrote:Makes sense, 3 weeks still seems quite long though. Well Thanks for sharing your experience, Looking forward to other experiences. yes sir

    In peacetime hauling stuff like this takes ages especially via railway. Via trucks its somewhat easier, you load trucks, provide escort, you send notice to Police and whoala day or two. But we couldnt risk 40 years old highly corosive fuel transport that way.

    In wartime rules get loosen alot naturally.
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  eehnie on Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:02 am

    Based on mobility, mobile systems by road are better than mobile systems by railway, and these are better than towed systems.

    I assume that systems designed for railway in Russia today are too big to use the habitual systems, and that towed systems are too big to be moved. Then I think every type would have a place.
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    Barguzin ICBM

    Post  GarryB on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:48 am

    That is like saying that sending out submarines is too dangerous... what if one hits a rock or an old mine and sinks...

    Risk is part of war.

    Do you think road mobile vehicles will remain in barracks until it is confirmed the US is attacking and then deployed in case something happens?

    The whole point of the new rail based ICBMs is that the new missiles are small enough to fit in standard carriages on standard tracks... even if you put them on a 100km loop track with a side track purpendicular to the main rail with the rail descending into an open topped rivetment where a whole train parked inside has side protection 360 degrees... you could deploy all your trains on such a rail network and move them every few periods of 20 minutes or so... with four or five S-400 and S-500 batteries in the middle and with proper rivetments requiring a very near miss to get a kill and of course these rail mounted ICBMs can be driven off the main track and down into one of these open topped tunnels to launch their missiles.... to ensure destruction you would need a nuclear explosion every km or so to ensure proper destruction of all the potential parking spaces... and by the time you ICBMs and even SLBMs had arrived the trains would be empty of missiles.


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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  George1 on Thu May 12, 2016 10:38 am

    Russia starts creating elements of rail-mobile ballistic missile system — source

    The timeframe for the construction of the system will be clarified in 2018

    MOSCOW, May 12. /TASS/. Russia has started the creation of separate elements of the Barguzin rail-mobile ballistic missile system, a source in the Russian defense industry complex said on Thursday.

    "The design documentation has been elaborated, separate elements of the system are being created, but there is no specific timeframe for its completion and making operational," the source said.

    According to him, the timeframe will be clarified in 2018.

    In 2014, Commander of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces Sergei Karakayev said that by the decision of the president, Russia started the reconstruction of the rail-based ICBM system Barguzin and its front end engineering design has been completed. Russia withdrew railway-based inter-continental ballistic missiles from operation in 2005. Their successor Barguzin, according to Strategic Missile Force expectations, will surpass by far the parameters of its predecessor and remain in active service at least till 2040. The New START Treaty does not prohibit the creation of such weapons.

    According to previous reports, one train of Russia's future rail-mobile missile system Barguzin will carry up to six intercontinental ballistic missiles developed on the basis of the Yars ICBM and will be equivalent to a regiment. A Russian defense industry source told TASS that one regiment of the recreated new-generation Barguzin system will be able to carry six Yars or Yars-M intercontinental ballistic missiles. One Barguzin division will comprise five regiments. It was initially planned to put the system into operation in 2019-2020.

    In December 2015, a Russian defense source told TASS that due to financial difficulties the Barguzin development works have been postponed for more than a year and will be completed no earlier than 2020.


    More:
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/875153


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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Viktor on Thu May 12, 2016 1:16 pm

    And construction begins thumbsup

    Source: started creating elements in Russia "missile train"
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  George1 on Sat May 14, 2016 5:57 pm

    Why Russia's Reviving Its Nuke Trains

    Russian "Barguzin" strategic missile trains may become an asymmetric response to NATO's complex European Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) system deployed in Romania and Poland, military experts believe.

    Russian designers have begun to create new elements of "Barguzin" — Russia's combat railway missile complex (BZhRK) aimed at transporting and launching strategic nuclear missiles.

    Citing a military source with the knowledge of the matter, Russian Regnum news agency wrote that the project's exact completion date would be announced in early 2018. Back in 2014, Strategic Missile Forces Commander Col. Gen. Sergei Karakayev told journalists that the sketches of Russia's future railway-based missile complex had been finalized.

    It was reported that the Russian Army may receive five Barguzin railroad ICBM systems by 2020. In late February 2016 the head of the Strategic Missile Forces' military education department, Viktor Nesterov, informed Echo Moskvy (Echo of Moscow) Radio that a new generation of ICBM-launching trains would enter the Army service in 2020.

    Russian military experts regard the system as a powerful counterbalance against NATO's European Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) system deployed by the United States in Eastern Europe.

    On Thursday, the Pentagon military officials inaugurated their missile defense base in Deveselu, Romania. The Deveselu base is one of the first major European elements of the US global missile shield. The cornerstone of the military site is an Aegis Ashore missile defense system equipped with an AN/SPY-1 radar and vertical launchers for 24 Standard SM-3 Block IB missiles.

    A similar ground-based Aegis system is currently under construction in Poland. The Polish base is due to become operational in 2018.

    Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov stressed Thursday that the deployment of the elements of the US global missile shield in Europe undoubtedly poses a direct threat to the Russian Federation's security.

    "From the very beginning we have said that, according to experts — and we are certain of this, undoubtedly — the deployment of missile defense systems indeed poses a threat to the security of the Russian Federation," Peskov told reporters.

    The Pentagon and NATO war planners have been "encircling" Russia since the end of the Cold War seeking to nullify the country's nuclear deterrence capability. However, with Barguzin nuclear trains the threat would be seriously mitigated.

    The crux of the matter is that the Russian BZhRK looks similar to any other ordinary cargo train and cannot be detected by an adversary. The elusive nuke complex also moves constantly across the system of the country's railroads. It is worth mentioning that the Russian railways are ranked second longest globally. In general, the combat railway missile complex can pass up to 1,000 kilometers daily.

    The first BZhRKs entered the Soviet Army service in 1987 but were completely decommissioned in 2007 in accordance with the START II (Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty) treaty between the US and Russia.

    However, the modernized BzhRK Barguzin system does not violate the provisions of the New START treaty signed by Moscow and Washington on April 8, 2010, in Prague.

    Each Barguzin train will be armed with six ICBMs RS-24 Yars which could be brought into firing position within minutes. Furthermore, Barguzins will be also equipped with advanced electronic warfare systems and a sophisticated stealth technology.

    Russian military expert Leonid Nersisyan notes in his article for Regnum, that Washington's unilateral withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty in the early 2000s prompted serious concerns in Moscow and forced Russian military planners to seek new ways to counter potential threats.

    The other destabilizing factor is the Pentagon's Prompt Global Strike (PGS) concept, Nersisyan underscores. The US is developing a system that can deliver a precision-guided conventional weapon airstrike at targets throughout the world within one hour using hypersonic weapons.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry has repeatedly signaled that Washington's efforts at implementing the European BMD and creating Prompt Global Strike (PGS) weapon systems is dealing a blow to the ongoing talks on nuclear disarmament between the countries.

    However, Nersisyan stresses that the Russian BZhRKs will nullify the challenge posed by the US Prompt Global Strike (PGS) concept.

    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160514/1039617061/barguzin-nuclear-train-russia-nato.html#ixzz48e85mYs5


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    Austin
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Austin on Thu May 19, 2016 1:52 pm

    Looks like Pavel is unhappy that Barguzin project is proceeding but I replied to him in Comments

    Barguzin project refuses to die

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/05/barguzin_project_refuses_to_di.shtml
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Thu May 19, 2016 7:41 pm

    Austin wrote:Looks like Pavel is unhappy that Barguzin project is proceeding but I replied to him in Comments

    Barguzin project refuses to die

    http://russianforces.org/blog/2016/05/barguzin_project_refuses_to_di.shtml

    Well he never allows me to post any cooment. It goes for moderation and doesn't appear at all. I posted there once and he removed my comment. So much for free speech.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  Austin on Thu May 19, 2016 7:48 pm

    I was lucky this time my post did not get moderated , generally it does it heavily moderated
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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu May 19, 2016 8:26 pm

    Austin wrote:I was lucky this time my post did not get moderated , generally it does it heavily moderated

    otherwise folks would prove with facts he is talking sh!t Smile

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

    Post  max steel on Fri May 20, 2016 1:21 am

    Given the finite rail network it's unlikely to be as useful as the Topols in terms of flexibility of firing positions, which can drive on roads to almost any pre-prepared launch position. The saving grace of rail is speed and perhaps the ability to mass a large number of Topols quickly along the rail net.

    It would be especially useful in diverting the missile force quickly over the large expanses of Russia/Siberia. Being able to cow Europe /and/ China with the same number of quickly moveable rail-ICBM is more economical than a large Topol force that can't react and move quickly from place to place.

    The other possibility is that rail allows a force to be moved into an area and to quickly fire missiles, then scoot, much more so than slower road-mobile topol (which can go off of the railroad net and are better off hiding or creeping around than zipping around as fast as possible).

    The third possibility is that rail allows a rail-ICBM force to move forward from safe rear areas after the threat is clear, fire the missiles and retreat.


    Topol usage is probably going to be roving and based on pre-selected, well-concealed sites. The trains will have to disperse and be prepared to rapidly move to a desired target area on short notice (or to egress quickly if the bombers are coming).

    If the missile force is kept east of the Ural mountains, it makes it a little trickier to find. There is more area, but far less civilian traffic. Trains running at high speed during wartime will stick out. West of the Urals with more civilian traffic, bombing all the trains is unlikely to be received well.

    Russia is big, and this is an advantage that is conferred on their road and rail network. Lots of area to hunt is not going to be fun for countering either the Topol or their Molodets replacement.

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    Re: BZhRK "Barguzin" railway ICBM

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