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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:11 am

    A number of Russian resources write that for the price of this one fighter, all military airfields could be equipped with concrete shelters for aircraft.

    On paper the precision weapons HATO is supplying Kiev would mean even concrete shelters would not be safe.

    Russia has thousands of airfields... and that is not counting forward airfields for temporary use, they would need millions of shelters to be built... by construction workers using construction materials that are currently being used to build defensive bunkers and underground positions for Russian troops near the front line to keep them safe and also to rebuild regions liberated from the Orcs.

    Even if you spent all that money and time and effort to make shelters for all their aircraft a FPV drone can fly into open doors and still hit targets, and it can also hit aircraft sitting on the apron being fuelled and armed.

    It would cost a fortune, and still not be 100% effective... there are hundreds of aircraft at each base and for each attack they hit one or two aircraft and even then I want to see some real proof that this attack even happened.


    The take it slow, attrition approach has been undeniably effective at grinding down the Ukr army and saving Russian lives. This is enough to offset any of the negatives that
    are pointed to. I would say it is the best approach.

    They are fighting the scum of the earth... nazis and terrorists... you have to expect some blow back and some damage, but that is not an indication of failure... that is just an indication of when you are doing work you can get mud on your shoes... a model on a runway would be destroyed by such a result but most farmers would not even notice.

    Are you a farmer or a supermodel?

    But if enough Forest airpad exist , and planes moved frequently , then not enough time to direct attacks !

    Simply using the aircraft would result in them moving quite regularly... planes not used regularly should be moved back to the rear or to special shelters... even if it is just concealment and not cover.

    Previously I suggested that Russia launch more sats with optical imaging so they can capture a "before" and "after" photos of targets in Ukraine, cause apparently, even though targets are destroyed by Russian strikes, if it wasn't captured in sat photos, it didn't happened, or NATO can just deny such strikes happened.

    Most western audiences would not believe Russia as a source of information anyway. There is no value in trying to win the propaganda war except by being right... let Ukrainian prisoners see some of the rebuilding going on in the former Ukrainian regions. Take them for a trip to Crimea to see the devastation and horror of life in Russia... if they get sent home they can compare life in Russia with life in Ukraine and let their media and government tell them their eyes are deceiving them...

    unlikely, men alone is enough for 2 years , then women . I would not count on that.

    They don't have to physically run out of men... when they start surrendering, and as they continue to lose ground and retreat to positions that are not prepared and are much much harder to defend then we will see how interest in continued fighting will show.

    Honestly neither side is asleep here - they are working on it 24/7.

    I agree and I think part of the call for HATO troops to enter the country is to be able to learn first hand how to fight Russian soldiers... but of course all they will actually learn is how to catch artillery shells and cluster munition warheads from ballistic and cruise missiles.

    The problem is you never see it on the front-line, or very seldom, where they're actually needed. Same goes for the anti-drones and so on. Maybe that's survivor bias, but there have been too many videos all throughout of all sorts of successful drone attacks with no defense against them.

    They have enormous numbers of drones yet we see so few videos of drone attacks... could that be because a large portion of their drones fail... much like a large portion of their air attacks and cruise missile attacks and long range artillery attacks?

    They stopped using Excalibr because it was too easy to jam and didn't hit anything...

    The issue with jammers is that there is such a variety of drone types and communication systems for drones that one drone jammer might jam some drones but not others...

    I would say the best solution would be a combination jammer gun with a built in semi auto shotgun for hard and soft defeat options...

    I understand that T-72s and T-64s and AK-74s and so on are perfectly adequate for the task. I'm not saying that all the hardware has to be the latest gen. But surely attaching EW masts to everything is not demanding too much. Nor for equipping every squad with a EW gun. This should have all been done long ago.

    It is not a static game... if you deploy jammers to defeat enemy drones they will use higher flying drones to detect the jammer signals and they will develop drones that use different frequencies and these new drones can attack your jammers to allow the older drones to be used again... it is a measure countermeasure game that will never end... no system will defeat everything and be perfect and continue to be perfect long enough to be deployed by every vehicle or soldier.


    But in light of this, Russia really, really needs to start building more advanced shelters foe the jets.

    Probably what the enemy wants by releasing this sort of thing... stop rebuilding Donbass and start making boxes for your planes.

    I admit, I know little to nothing about satellite imagery but why does the bird look like its under the runway? it looks almost like a photoshop

    It is already under a mesh cage...

    At this point might as well deploy from NATO bases. Ukrainian bases may subject to bombardement and cluster munition strike.

    Deploying from HATO bases wont protect them from bombardment or cluster munition strikes.


    Well have them installed on every 2nd vehicle first, then we can talk about their effectiveness or lack of it

    They will be fitting stuff that is tested and works on new vehicles but lots of other stuff will be deployed for testing to see if it works.

    Sometimes when it doesn't work it might need fine tuning or adjustments, which have to be developed and applied and then when it seems to be working most of the time then production expansion to get it on all the vehicles in units can be tested and if that seems to make a difference then they can deploy it but obviously they need to be careful they are not jamming their own drones and comms and other systems too.

    Russia needs to Punish NATO every time it opens its Squalid mouth to spew Lies and Propaganda. Kill 1000 NATO personnel in Ukraine in the next 24 hours to make NATO command squirm in disbelief

    Russia needs to take the gloves off when it comes to HATO and recognise their role in prolonging this conflict and making it more painful for everyone, which means they need to target HATO soldiers and equipment and systems every chance they get.

    Part of recon is to not destroy everything when you see it so you can see patterns and paths and habits the enemy has so you can work out where all the parts and important stuff is located. After a while you build up an intel picture of who is where and what is what and when you start striking then you can do a lot more damage and can be much more effective in dealing with enemy positions and resources..

    Hitting a tank is good but taking out a fuel dump with the fuel for all the vehicles in the district is better.

    Alexander Mercouris made the point on a recent program that the Cuban Missile Crisis is something that both sides stumbled into. Neither wanted it, neither sought to provoke some grand confrontation.
    None of this holds for what's going on now though.

    Jupiter missiles in Turkey led to the Soviets sending missiles to Cuba. The US over reacted and had a hissy fit and demanded the Soviets remove the missiles and quietly promised to remove the missiles from Turkey which is what happened.

    In comparison HATO tried to move its bases closer to Moscow and Russia objected and invaded to protect the Russian speaking Ukrainian population from western inspired persecution. Maybe nukes in Cuba are the answer to make the US back down?

    The West's "out" is the capitulation of Russia, it can't be anything else, they've staked everything on a Ukrainian victory and stand to lose everything if it doesn't happen.

    The west withdrew from Afghanistan, they can withdraw from Ukraine... the west has more in common with Kiev... the same criminal corrupt values and a liking for Cocaine and money laundering, but the US will dump even the most loyal friend when it suits them.

    I imagine Garry and those in Australia and New Zealand will be okay at least for a while, but heaven help all of us who live north of the equator.

    Honestly if you take away netflix and the vast majority of the internet most in NZ and Aus would not appreciate surviving really.

    Plus there are a lot of American billionaires realising that New Zealand and Australia are a long way away from America run by Trump and perhaps soon Trump again... things are still affordable here and mostly normal and we speak almost the same language.

    My FSB task is to locate all the most important billionaires on the extermination list and pass their coordinates to the Russian Embassy for SLBM attack by the special Borey unit tasked with operating in the deep south. Razz

    Obviously I wont give them any coordinates near where I live... maybe Tasmania... the actual scum we will hunt down and take out personally... good white meat. Razz

    The West will not give up on Ukraine.

    I don't think that matters... the west was not going to give up on Afghanistan either... they were going to get womens rights and be brought into the 21st century as a modern functioning country...

    EU basing for Ukrainian F-16's

    If Ukrainian F-16s operate from EU airbases then those EU bases are legitimate targets to hit and destroy.

    It is also known that Russia will not attack airbase on NATO territory.

    It is certainly not known that Russia will not attack Ukrainian aircraft in HATO territory.

    Putin has said that strikes deep into Russian territory will result in Russian strikes in Ukraine against HATO targets and beyond Ukraine... and I don't think he meant in the middle of the Black Sea or Med.







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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:39 am

    https://www.n2yo.com/

    Said before about setting up experiment to find source of targeting information for Ukrs missile and drone strikes against objects  of Russia and donbass . One way is to move objects just after yank satellite passes over , to deny real time info for drones and loitering cruise missiles . This should be known to Russia . If objects deep inside Russia still hit , after being recently moved after the yank satellite recently pass over , then either new stealth satellite in orbit or other source of data . Experiment using dummy planes near front .

    pirat
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    Post  Stealthflanker Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:14 am

    nomadski wrote:https://www.n2yo.com/

    Said before about setting up experiment to find source of targeting information for Ukrs missile and drone strikes against objects  of Russia and donbass . One way is to move objects just after yank satellite passes over , to deny real time info for drones and loitering cruise missiles . This should be known to Russia . If objects deep inside Russia still hit , after being recently moved after the yank satellite recently pass over , then either new stealth satellite in orbit or other source of data . Experiment using dummy planes near front .

    pirat

    The thing is that US is not the only provider of such imageries.. you can literally BUY Satellite imageries from MANY Companies abroad and not just US companies, i can see Chinese and Korean companies selling imageries of their own Satellite e.g Jilin and Kompsat with competitive resolution similar as what US Sells with Maxar. These are enough for identification, and there are enough numbers of Satellite there that can pass and observe same things at same time.

    The only option if you really intend to deny such intel is move things often, preferrably at night as most if not all of those Satellites are Sun Synchronus which they only take images in the morning.

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    VARGR198
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    Post  VARGR198 Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:48 am

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    Post  Hole Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:04 am

    However, it is too early to talk about a complete collapse of the enemy’s defense. 
    Good. That means the rest of them has to stay and die.

    all military airfields could be equipped with concrete shelters for aircraft.
    Still, all active aircraft readied for a sortie will stay along the flightline.
    That´s why she is called that way.
    Open sheltes like in Syria wouldn´t work against small drones or bigger payloads.
    The only solution would be to turn every airbase into an aircraft carrier with a
    fortified hangar underground and only lifts to bring aircraft up before and down
    after a sortie.

    The West will not give up on Ukraine.
    That´s why there will be no more Ukraine.

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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:08 am

    🚨🚨🇷🇺URGENT: Russian forces just opened the new Sumy Front.

    ⚡Ramzan Kadyrov confirms that Chechen spetsnaz liberated the town of Ryzhivka in Sumskaya region. Local Ukrainian forces are retreating!

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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:17 am

    So, they really think that the Russians are accepting 'legal tricks' at this stage Laughing Laughing

    Lord Bebo@MyLordBebo

    Some F-16 fighters will be likely based in Romania and Poland. -> Looks like a legal trick to base F16 jets outside of Ukraine. So the jets will be based in Romania, fly to Ukraine to load missiles and then fly for combat missions and fly back to Romania.

     “Some of them will remain in those centers where our pilots and aviation personnel are trained. There is a certain number of aircraft that will be stored at safe air bases, not in Ukraine, so that they will not be targets here. And this will be our reserve in case necessary to replace faulty aircraft during routine maintenance. That is, so that we can constantly have a certain number of aircraft in operation, which will correspond to the number of pilots we will have. There will be more aircraft in Ukraine." — said Chief of Aviation of the Air Force Command Sergei Golubtsov.


    EDIT, just found this. Golubtsov obviously either doesn't see what Putin says or thinks he is blowing hot air. Dangerous either way.

    Russia has no plans to attack any NATO country, President Vladimir Putin said on March 28, but he warned that Moscow's forces could target NATO bases if they host F-16 fighter jets flying combat sorties in Ukraine.


    "We have no aggressive intentions toward [NATO] states," Putin told air force pilots at a facility in the Tver region northwest of Moscow, according to a Kremlin transcript.

    He said it would be "complete nonsense" to suggest that Russia would attack countries such as Poland, the Baltic states, and the Czech Republic, adding: "Just nonsense, another way to cheat their population and force them to allocate additional resources."

    Ukraine is awaiting the delivery of F-16s from Western countries that have promised to send Kyiv at least 42 F-16s. Ukrainian pilots have been training in the West for months on how to fly the warplanes.

    Asked whether Russian pilots would be "allowed" to attack F-16 warplanes deployed at airfields in NATO countries if they were used against Russia, Putin indicated that Moscow would consider them fair game if F-16s based there flew combat sorties in Ukraine.

    "Of course, if they are used from airfields of third countries, they become a legitimate target for us, no matter where they are located," he said.

    F-16s delivered to Ukraine are to be housed by Ukrainian air bases. However, it remains unclear how many Ukrainian air bases can accommodate F-16s, which require high-quality runways and well-protected, well-camouflaged hangars.

    https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukrainian-f-16s-putin-nato-shoot-down/32881357.html

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:35 am

    And already you have members of this forum encouraging Russia to turn the other cheek on that too

    'Just shoot down the jets, it's easy'
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:37 am

    Another purely coincidental but terrible accident Wink

    Tоби айоделе -Tboy@TobiAyodele

    An explosion occurred at the Mesko arms factory in the Polish city of Skarzysko-Kamienna, radio RMF24 reports. “We had an explosion in the rocket fuel center, which was put into operation several years ago,” plant director Elzbieta Sreniawska confirmed the information.

    After an explosion in the south-east of Poland, the arms production plant of Mesko S.A. is on fire. The facility reportedly produced rocket fuel. One person died, said plant director Elzbieta Szreniawska. The causes of the emergency are not reported.

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    Post  Firebird Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:17 am

    JohninMK wrote:Another purely coincidental but terrible accident Wink

    Tоби айоделе -Tboy@TobiAyodele

    An explosion occurred at the Mesko arms factory in the Polish city of Skarzysko-Kamienna, radio RMF24 reports. “We had an explosion in the rocket fuel center, which was put into operation several years ago,” plant director Elzbieta Sreniawska confirmed the information.

    After an explosion in the south-east of Poland, the arms production plant of Mesko S.A. is on fire. The facility reportedly produced rocket fuel. One person died, said plant director Elzbieta Szreniawska. The causes of the emergency are not reported.

    Putin should do a video singing the English singer Elvis Costello's "Accidents can happen" then wink at the camera at the end. That would send a signal to the pieces of shit like Bidet and Sunak etc.

    On the subject of the Eisenhower carrier, I wonder why the US spokesman said "we're are not aware of any damage". Rather than "we know for a fact and here's the evidence"?

    Surely it wld be fairly easy to identify damage or not either way?

    Does anyone have linked to the alleged evidence?

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    Post  Broski Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:49 am

    flamming_python wrote:And already you have members of this forum encouraging Russia to turn the other cheek on that too

    'Just shoot down the jets, it's easy'
    Who, exactly?

    Dangerous indeed, but not for Russia. If Poland and Romania allow the "Ukrainians" (NATO pilots) to attack Russia or Russians from their airbases, then they'll simply lose those airbases. Article 5 will be screamed out loud as if the US will come running to protect them, they won't. Poland will become the Ukraine 2.0 but without ethnic Russians to hold hostage and use as human shields.
    https://www.russiadefence.net/t9086p350-russian-special-military-operation-in-ukraine-57#461333

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Jun 10, 2024 12:29 pm

    Arrow wrote:More red lines to be crossed by NATO. It is known that F-16s will be stationed outside Ukraine and attack targets on Russian territory. It is also known that Russia will not attack airbase on NATO territory. So why draw further red lines?
    Who said that Russia would not attack bases that operate airplanes which attack Russia?

    It could be unclear if Russia would attack bases in Poland and Romania responsible for maintaining those planes (which then are flown into Ukrainian bases, from which they take off before watching Russia.
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    Post  sepheronx Mon Jun 10, 2024 12:56 pm

    People are misunderstanding Putins comments. They think he will not attack such planes in Romania and Poland even if they attack Russia because of what he said at SpIEF. Which I think his words were stupid and puts himself in a bad position. Context though what matters.

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    Post  kvs Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:04 pm

    Why hit NATzO bases on NATzO territory when the F16s can be blown out of the sky when they cross the border? People dismiss Russian
    AD systems for some strange reason. Putin has to worry about escalation and will try to avoid feeding NATzO hysteria.

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    Post  nomadski Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:21 pm

    Legally speaking and as GarryB also said , yes perhaps . If we see the totality of Ukrainian old borders as legitimate with territorial integrity . But if we don't , and we can not , as the new regions of Russia voted to join Russia , then old borders no longer legal . And NATO crossing old border ( no longer legitimate ) means nothing . However if they cross into Ukrainian occupied , Russian majority areas , then perhaps yes , based on the expressed desires of Russian population , to be part of Russia ? Russia however can still attack aircraft and bases in Ukrainian areas , or Ukrainian occupied areas , and NATO aircraft and bases , if they fly direct from NATO territory , without stopping in western Ukraine and attack Russian populated areas ? ( areas recently posted on map , coloured in Red ) . But NATO can not attack Russia , because they have not occupied Ukrainian majority areas . But Russia can attack NATO , because they occupy Russian majority areas . E.g : French in Odessa ?


    Last edited by nomadski on Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:53 pm

    flamming_python wrote:And already you have members of this forum encouraging Russia to turn the other cheek on that too

    'Just shoot down the jets, it's easy'

    VVP is going to analyze every step and its consequences first before taking any action, as he always does. But you're right, if the situation becomes truly grave, then Putin and the generals will have no other option but to seek answers from experts in discussion forums.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:08 pm

    kvs wrote:Why hit NATzO bases on NATzO territory when the F16s can be blown out of the sky when they cross the border?   People dismiss Russian
    AD systems for some strange reason.   Putin has to worry about escalation and will try to avoid feeding NATzO hysteria.  


    Hm you know that sounds like a good idea...until you realize Ukraine still has planes they have landed and taken off before.

    Russia has not destroyed the Ukie Airforce, and it only controls the airspace around its front lines, they do not have total control of Uki airspace in all areas, so they cannot shoot down the F-16's once they cross the boarder.

    The amount of burying your head in the sand is amusing

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:10 pm

    Walther von Oldenburg wrote:🚨🚨🇷🇺URGENT: Russian forces just opened the new Sumy Front.

    ⚡Ramzan Kadyrov confirms that Chechen spetsnaz liberated the town of Ryzhivka in Sumskaya region. Local Ukrainian forces are retreating!

    This should have been done ages ago, the russians are merely trying to force ukraine to stretch its forces, they have no intentions of going deep into Sumy, their kahkrov bufferzone wasn't fully accomplished, they failed to get all the gains they wanted.

    But they still forced Ukraine to redploy troops it needs elsewhere so in that it was a success
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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Jun 10, 2024 3:53 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 38 Img_2184
    https://t.me/fighter_bomber/17015

    New photos from Akhtubinsk.

    In order not to get up twice, I will say that two Su-57s were damaged. The second Su-57 received minor damage, which will be repaired on the spot. I have already written about the first one. They will think it is advisable to restore it, or not, because the board is really a prototype and is not suitable for combat operations.

    Of the three UAVs that attacked the airfield, all three made it. For what reasons the air defense did not work, I will not write. Let the majors deal with the reasons and how it happened.
    The only rebuff the UAV got was an outfit that shot two magazines at them, and then spent the whole morning collecting shell casings at the airfield.

    The arcs above the plane are an unfinished hangar, which the **** knows when they started building it, and then they abandoned it, like at many other airfields. Perhaps out of the very 300 shelters that began to be built at an accelerated pace in 2021.

    Anyway, we are waiting for the next arrival.
    We stock up on casings and fake experts in advance. 😏

    Yes, not a single painted plane from the photo was damaged.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 38 Fec6de10

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    Post  Isos Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:12 pm

    There is at least one fake su-57 painted on the ground, left one. You can see the lines of the ground going through it.

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    Post  Hole Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:17 pm

    will have no other option but to seek answers from experts in discussion forums.
    For that we are here.  lol1

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    Post  Isos Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:18 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Another purely coincidental but terrible accident Wink

    Tоби айоделе -Tboy@TobiAyodele

    An explosion occurred at the Mesko arms factory in the Polish city of Skarzysko-Kamienna, radio RMF24 reports. “We had an explosion in the rocket fuel center, which was put into operation several years ago,” plant director Elzbieta Sreniawska confirmed the information.

    After an explosion in the south-east of Poland, the arms production plant of Mesko S.A. is on fire. The facility reportedly produced rocket fuel. One person died, said plant director Elzbieta Szreniawska. The causes of the emergency are not reported.

    A simple reason for all those explosions is that western industry is quite dead since they sent everything in China. Now they produces at high speed dangerous things they used to produce at very slow rates which creates accidents. Higher production rates means more poeple hired quickly to compensate but no time to train them.

    Another exemple of western politicians successes.

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    PapaDragon
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    Post  PapaDragon Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:22 pm

    flamming_python wrote:And already you have members of this forum encouraging Russia to turn the other cheek on that too

    'Just shoot down the jets, it's easy'

    Wrong

    This here is exactly when you start roasting locations across the Ukr west border

    Pay attention


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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:56 pm

    flamming_python wrote:And already you have members of this forum encouraging Russia to turn the other cheek on that too

    'Just shoot down the jets, it's easy'

    Yeah the cope is off the charts

    Russia either takes action or a borei submarine is next to get yeeted

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 38 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:58 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 38 Img_2184
    https://t.me/fighter_bomber/17015

    New photos from Akhtubinsk.

    In order not to get up twice, I will say that two Su-57s were damaged. The second Su-57 received minor damage, which will be repaired on the spot. I have already written about the first one. They will think it is advisable to restore it, or not, because the board is really a prototype and is not suitable for combat operations.

    Of the three UAVs that attacked the airfield, all three made it. For what reasons the air defense did not work, I will not write. Let the majors deal with the reasons and how it happened.
    The only rebuff the UAV got was an outfit that shot two magazines at them, and then spent the whole morning collecting shell casings at the airfield.

    The arcs above the plane are an unfinished hangar, which the **** knows when they started building it, and then they abandoned it, like at many other airfields. Perhaps out of the very 300 shelters that began to be built at an accelerated pace in 2021.

    Anyway, we are waiting for the next arrival.
    We stock up on casings and fake experts in advance. 😏

    Yes, not a single painted plane from the photo was damaged.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 38 Fec6de10

    Lmfao tires for protection and painted hopscotch jets

    What a shitshow, did the right people go to jail?

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