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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jun 10, 2024 8:59 pm

    Isos wrote:

    A simple reason for all those explosions is that western industry is quite dead since they sent everything in China. Now they produces at high speed dangerous things they used to produce at very slow rates which creates accidents. Higher production rates means more poeple hired quickly to compensate but no time to train them.

    Another exemple of western politicians successes.

    Yeah no this is no accident lol

    But this in no way shape or form makes up a credible response to the NATO strikes in Russia

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    Post  Firebird Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:58 pm

    nomadski wrote:Legally speaking and as GarryB also said , yes perhaps . If we see the totality of Ukrainian old borders as legitimate with territorial integrity . But if we don't , and we can not , as the new regions of Russia voted to join Russia , then old borders no longer legal . And NATO crossing old border ( no longer legitimate ) means nothing . However if they cross into Ukrainian occupied , Russian majority areas , then perhaps yes , based on the expressed desires of Russian population , to be part of Russia ? Russia however can still attack aircraft and bases in Ukrainian areas , or Ukrainian occupied areas , and NATO aircraft and bases , if they fly direct from NATO territory , without stopping in western Ukraine and attack Russian populated areas ? ( areas recently posted on map , coloured in Red ) . But NATO can not attack Russia , because they have not occupied Ukrainian majority areas . But Russia can attack NATO , because they occupy Russian majority areas . E.g : French in Odessa ?

    Legally speaking Russia needs to take the whole fucking joint. 10 years ago.
    It also needs to hit those faggots behind all this shit. Especially the United Snakes of Satan.
    It's not hard. Use the Houthis, the "Ukrainian Region Resistance Force", Iran, ANY group.

    Instigating a coup and overthrowing the lawful pro Russian govt, then installing Nazis to openly declare genocide and ethnic cleansing, and eventual invasion of Russia. There's no need to even HAVE a conversation about legalistic BS.

    Putin should have burnt his "intl law" books and snuffed out the Nazis in 2014. Infact, he should ahve reunified the Pukraine before the 2008 US orchestrated coup. Does Putin think he is still a law student or something.

    And I say this as an ex lawyer. There is "law" and there is REALITY. Or de facto and de jure to use the legal terms.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:01 pm

    Hesitation is the graveyard of missed opportunities

    Soleimani and Raisi both know about that

    Now Putin is probably learning that lesson
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:16 pm

    from fighterbomber TG (he still is or was Russian military pilot) . The post beginning refers to earlier information about the A-50 being shot down by a Patriot missile.



    fighterbomber wrote:
    If this is indeed the case, then the only question that needs to be asked here is what responsibility was incurred by the official who placed the A-50 in the kill zone of the enemy air defense system.
    Although the question is of course rhetorical.

    https://t.me/sashakots/47219

    Well, so as not to get up twice, I’ll go over the main news.


    -------------------------------------------
    “France will be able to supply no more than 6 Mirage-2000 aircraft.

    Because of 6 ancient litaks, launch a huge machine of retraining, logistics and repair? You have to be completely idiots. Only because of regulations and repairs, 6 aircraft actually turn into four.

    ----------------------------------------------

    The next news, which is not news at all
    "The F-16s transferred to the Ukrainians will be based at NATO airfields."

    This is not news because Ukrainian aviation has been based on them and has been repaired since the first day of the air defense system. It’s just that the F-16 will be added to the other types of litaks. Their airfields are essentially used as jump airfields. crests would generally drag all the aviation to NATO airfields, but then the ping will increase and the flight radius will not be enough.


    ----------------------------------------------------------
    "The crests announced the creation of their KAB based on free-falling bombs"
    We are, of course, talking about the Khokhlo UMPC, and not about KAB. The head of Khokhloaviation is not very knowledgeable about aviation, and that’s good.

    Well, the news is also so-so. crests had a working UMPC even before the war. I don't know why they didn't put it into the series. I also don’t really understand why they decided to make them today, because they have mountains of ready-made glide bombs poured in for them. Moreover, time for the UMPC is slowly running out. Electronic warfare on both sides is becoming more and more numerous.
    It works for both our own and other people’s satellite guidance systems, as a result of which the accuracy of the UMPC deteriorates to critical levels and will continue to deteriorate. The prospect lies in more advanced inertial navigation systems and correction systems that cannot be interfered with.
    Telegram
    Kotsnews
    A Russian A-50 was shot down by a Patriot air defense system in January

    A certain assistant to the chief of staff of the 10th US Army, Colonel Rosanna Clemente, said that our AWACS aircraft was attacked by a crew trained in Germany. She told me, laughing and almost dancing...






    Isos wrote:There is at least one fake su-57 painted on the ground, left one. You can see the lines of the ground going through it.

    it's a ghost of Su-57 parked by  Ghost of Khuiv
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:22 pm

    Firebird wrote:

    Putin should have burnt his "intl law" books and snuffed out the Nazis in 2014. Infact, he should ahve reunified the Pukraine before the 2008 US orchestrated coup. Does Putin think he is still a law student or something.
    .

    mate, are you serious? there's no law. whoever is taking about intl law is only selling his story. In 2014, BRICS were much weaker in terms of economy, military, and even the level of cooperation. The Russian economy would have collapsed in 2014 after so many sanctions were applied..

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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:28 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Lmfao tires for protection and painted hopscotch jets

    What a shitshow, did the right people go to jail?

    I would expand your question by adding, did enough people went to jail.

    And then, we have this said 3+ years ago:

    https://t.me/ZOV_Voevoda/14867

    Civil part of the government did their job and there was enough money allocated for new equipment and infrastructure of Armed forces, comparing to some other times in the past. Regular budget for the army was increased significantly after Georgia war in 2008 and there was SAP, as well. Quality of spending and eventual misappropriation of the funds is entirely different subject.

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    Belisarius


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    Post  Belisarius Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:56 pm

    New photos from Akhtubinsk.

    Nope, it's just the zoomed out version of the previous photo, that being said my opinion remains, low resolution satellite photos published by people who have already been caught multiple times using photoshop don't prove shit, unless someone at the base posts a photo, nothing happened.

    I will say that two Su-57s were damaged. The second Su-57 received minor damage, which will be repaired on the spot. I have already written about the first one. They will think it is advisable to restore it, or not, because the board is really a prototype and is not suitable for combat operations.Of the three UAVs that attacked the airfield, all three made it. For what reasons the air defense did not work, I will not write. Let the majors deal with the reasons and how it happened.The only rebuff the UAV got was an outfit that shot two magazines at them, and then spent the whole morning collecting shell casings at the airfield.The arcs above the plane are an unfinished hangar, which the **** knows when they started building it, and then they abandoned it, like at many other airfields.

    Lots of allegations, with no evidence, but coming from the ukiebomber this doesn't surprise me, I've been waiting for over 6 months for photos of the wreckage of the A-50 they shot down above the, 14m deep, Sea of Azov. Rolling Eyes

    Lmfao tires for protection and painted hopscotch jets

    Last time I checked tires were used not for protection but as camouflage against radar based reconnaissance satellites

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Jun 10, 2024 11:31 pm

    Belisarius wrote:
    Lots of allegations, with no evidence, but coming from the ukiebomber this doesn't surprise me, I've been waiting for over 6 months for photos of the wreckage of the A-50 they shot down above the, 14m deep, Sea of Azov. Rolling Eyes



    He is a Russian military officer with his sources in military structures in Russian AF. If you know better then him it's ok with me.



    As for A-50 that's Sasha Kots TG: https://t.me/sashakots/47219

    "Colonel Clemente said that this is how aerial ambushes are prepared when air defense systems are moved to the very front line. Thus, the A-50 AWACS was hit in January of this year.

    She also spoke about the Patriot ambush, as a result of which several Su-27s were shot down. This probably refers to the attack in the Bryansk region, when two Mi-8s, a Su-34 and a Su-35 were shot down.

    If this is really the case, then I have no doubt that German “instructors” were directly involved in the preparation of this attack. Or American ones. Doesn't matter. Not that it was much of a revelation. Just another illustration of the involvement of the “collective West” in our war. And they stop being embarrassed to admit it."

    So you believe, no Su-35/Su-34 or Mi8 were hit either?

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    Post  Belisarius Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:34 am

    He is a Russian military officer with his sources in military structures in Russian AF. If you know better then him it's ok with me.

    Claiming to have sources in military structures in Russian AF and having sources in military structures in Russian AF are two different things...

    1-ukiebomber lied about the assassination of some Russian pilot by SBU in Voronezh when, as it turned out, not only nobody was "assassinated" in Voronezh as the Government of Voronezh Oblast debunked the rumor, but such pilot never existed in real life.

    2-ukiebomber lied about the "devastating strike" on airfield around Rostov where 2, not 9, helicopters were destroyed.

    3-ukiebomber lied about Su-34 shot down in December in Kherson, no visual evidence of aircraft wreckage.

    4-ukiebomber lied about the supposed shooting down of an A-50 in the Sea of ​​Azov, if this incident had actually occurred, the wreckage would have already appeared since the Sea of ​​Azov has an average depth of 7m and 15m in its deepest part.

    I can go on and on, and at the end of the day the fact is that fighterbomber is, hands down, an unreliable source, therefore I give myself every right to shit on everything they claim.

    As for A-50 that's Sasha Kots TG: https://t.me/sashakots/47219

    FFS your source is a fucking american officer?
    Please give me a break!
    The only thing the patriot shot down in January was an Il-76 full of ukrainian POWs!!

    So you believe, no Su-35/Su-34 or Mi8 were hit either?

    If my memory serves me correctly, no evidence was presented regarding the Su-35, and disbelieving something for which there is no evidence does not oblige me to disbelieve something for which there is evidence.

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    Post  sepheronx Tue Jun 11, 2024 12:51 am

    The fact is, if something is shot down, there would be lots of evidence. When something like an A-50 is destroyed, there is a shit ton of evidence.

    What's funny is that there wasn't any evidence. Yet we had evidence of a Il-76 carrying prisoners that was shot down.

    Evidence is key because yes, fighter bomber lied plenty of times. Same with Rybar and others. Was their lie intentional? Maybe not. But because ego gets a hold of people easily because of their supposed credentials, it's better to keep lying about something they were wrong about rather than admit they were wrong.

    As for American channels talking about any kind of shootdown, lol. No, I would simply disregard what they say.

    Tldr: the onus is on the person making the claim to provide the evidence.  Something big and important would be much easier to spot being lost especially for propaganda use.  Lack of evidence makes it easier to ignore the claim.

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    Post  Aristonicus Tue Jun 11, 2024 2:53 am

    Report from Chasiv Yar with map:
    Marat Khairulin wrote:The battle for Chasov Yar is entering its decisive phase

    Short report from the front June 10, 2024 by Marat Khairulin

    In the area of Chasov Yar, our fighters made significant progress in the Kanal district. Strikes from missiles, artillery and drones constantly destroy enemy deployment points, warehouses and equipment, both in this part of the city and on the other side of the canal. Drone control points are tracked and destroyed.
    Thus, the enemy’s deployment point in Vocational School No. 77 was destroyed, and then assault operations began in the northern part of the microdistrict from the side of the dachas. During this, our troops entered the territory of the repair plant and began clearing the buildings there. The assault teams also entered and cleared houses adjacent to this enterprise, where flags were installed upon completion of the clearing.
    At the same time, attacks continued from the east and south. As a result, high-rise buildings in the southeast came completely under our control. In the houses in the southwest the enemy still holds positions.

    The situation in eastern Chasov Yar is very dynamic. At the moment, most of the Kanal microdistrict is controlled by units of the Russian Armed Forces. Fierce fighting is taking place in its central part, gradually moving west towards the transition from this microdistrict to the main part of the city.
    The Ukrainian Armed Forces are gradually rolling back beyond the canal, trying to slow down ours so as not to give us the opportunity to “jump on their shoulders” and we are already in the Novy microdistrict.

    Active assault operations are taking place in the forest to the south and west of the settlement. Ivanovskoe (Krasnoe). To the south of the village, our units knocked out the AFU from a number of positions.

    Fighting in the forest, where the enemy has equipped many fortifications, is an extremely difficult task, but our warriors are steadily moving forward.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 39 Gpty7510

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    Post  Aristonicus Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:01 am

    Russian Defence Ministry Report 10th of June 2024:
    Russian Defense Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation 10 June 2024
    The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.  
    The Sever Group of Forces have engaged manpower and hardware of the AFU 57th Motorized Infantry, 42nd Mechanized, 3rd Tank Brigades, 113rd, 125th territorial defense brigades close to Volchansk, Veseloye, Goptovka, Radyanskoye, and Tikhoye (Kharkov region). The Russian troops repelled seven counter-attacks launched by assault groups of the 82nd Air Assault Brigade, 36th Marine Brigade, and 416th Rifle Battalion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The enemy's losses amounted to up to 255 Ukrainian troops, nine motor vehicles, 152-mm Akatsiya self-propelled artillery system, two 122-mm D-30 howitzers, and two counter-battery stations.  
    The Zapad Group of Forces' units improved the situation along the front line and inflicted fire damage on the 77th Airmobile, 14th, 43rd, 54th, 63rd, 116th mechanized brigades, 12th special brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and 18th National Guard Brigade near Serebryanka (Donetsk People's Republic), Berestovoye, Sinkovka, and Timkovka (Kharkov region). The enemy lost up to 570 Ukrainian troops and four motor vehicles. In counter-battery warfare, the Russian troops neutralized one U.S.-made 155-mm M109 Paladin self-propelled artillery system, one U.S.-made 155-mm M777 howitzer, one 152-mm Msta-B howitzer, two 122-mm D-30 howitzers, and one UK-made 105-mm L-119 howitzer were destroyed.  
    The Yug Group's units improved the tactical situation and delivered strikes at manpower and hardware of the 46th Airmobile, 78th Air Assault, 24th, 28th, 41st, 54th mechanized brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Dyleyevka, Verkhnekamenka, Katerinovka, Kurakhovo, Dzerzhynsk, and Chasov Yar (Donetsk People's Republic). The enemy lost up to 430 Ukrainian troops and seven motor vehicles. In counter-battery warfare, the Russian troops hit one German-made 155-mm Panzerhaubitzer self-propelled artillery system, one U.S.-made 155-mm M777 howitzer, one 152-mm Msta-B howitzer, three 122-mm Gvozdika self-propelled artillery systems, and one 122-mm D-30 howitzer. In addition, one Bukovel-AD electronic warfare station and two AFU field ammunition depots were destroyed.  
    The Tsentr Group of Forces captured more advantageous lines and inflicted fire damage on the 71st Infantry Brigade, 115th Mechanized, 25th Airborne brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 109th Territorial Defense Brigades near Novgorodskoye, Kalinovo, Karlovka, and Rozovka (Donetsk People's Republic). Five counter-attacks launched by assault groups of the AFU 59th Motorized Infantry Brigade, 24th, 47th, and 110th mechanized brigades were repelled. The enemy lost up to 345 Ukrainian troops, four armored fighting vehicles, including two U.S.-made Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, and two pick-up trucks. In addition, three U.S.-made 155-mm M777 howitzers, three 152-mm Msta-B howitzers, three 152-mm D-20 howitzers, two 122-mm Gvozdika self-propelled artillery systems, and four 122-mm D-30 howitzers were eliminated.  
    The Vostok Group of Forces continued to advance into the depth of the enemy's defense and liberated Staromayorskoye (Donetsk People's Republic). The Russian Armed Forces inflicted fire damage on manpower and hardware of the AFU 58th Motorized Infantry Brigade, 72nd Mechanized Brigade, 123rd and 128th territorial defense brigades near Velikaya Novosyolka, Vodyanoye, Neskuchnoye, Urozhaynoye, and Ugledar (Donetsk People's Republic). The AFU losses amounted to up to 140 Ukrainian troops, two motor vehicles, one UK-made FH-70 howitzer, one 152-mm D-20 howitzer, and one 122-mm D-30 howitzer.  
    The Dnepr Group of Forces have engaged the 128th Mountain Assault Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the 35th Marine Brigade, and the 121st Territorial Defense Brigades near Mirnoye, Nesteryanka (Zaporozhye region), Osokorovka, and Tyaginka (Kherson region). The AFU losses amounted to up to 60 Ukrainian troops, two pickup trucks, one 152-mm Giatsint-B gun, and one 122-mm D-30 howitzer.  
    Operational-Tactical Aviation, unmanned aerial vehicles, and Missile Troops and Artillery of the Russian Groups of Forces have hit the command post of the AFU tactical aviation brigade, the field artillery depot, as well as temporary deployment areas of foreign mercenaries, clusters of enemy manpower and military hardware in 147 areas.  
    Air defense units shot down one MiG-29 aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Forces. During the day, the Russian Armed Forces intercepted one Neptune anti-ship missile, two U.S.-made HARM anti-radiation missiles, four aerial bombs (French-made Hammer and U.S.-made JDAM), seven U.S.-made HIMARS and Uragan projectiles, as well as 51 unmanned aerial vehicles.
    In total, 611 airplanes and 276 helicopters, 25,514 unmanned aerial vehicles, 528 air defense missile systems, 16,308 tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, 1,331 combat vehicles equipped with MLRS, 10,302 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 22,413 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.

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    Post  Aristonicus Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:37 am

    T-64BV mod.2017 tanks, BVP-2 and BMP-1TS infantry fighting vehicles of the Ukrainian 150th Mechanized Brigade at a training ground
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 39 150th_10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 39 150th_11
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 39 150th_12

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    Post  Aristonicus Tue Jun 11, 2024 3:39 am

    BRDM-2 (or OT-62) & T-64BV m.2017 of the 150th Mechanized Brigade
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 39 150th_13

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    Post  flamming_python Tue Jun 11, 2024 4:46 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:This should have been done ages ago, the russians are merely trying to force ukraine to stretch its forces, they have no intentions of going deep into Sumy, their kahkrov bufferzone wasn't fully accomplished, they failed to get all the gains they wanted.

    But they still forced Ukraine to redploy troops it needs elsewhere so in that it was a success

    What gains did they want?

    The Kharkov advance seemed like one completely of opportunism. Take what territory is undefended and then stretch out whatever Ukrainian forces come. No rush, and no assaulting of heavily defended positions.

    Isos wrote:A simple reason for all those explosions is that western industry is quite dead since they sent everything in China. Now they produces at high speed dangerous things they used to produce at very slow rates which creates accidents. Higher production rates means more poeple hired quickly to compensate but no time to train them.

    Another exemple of western politicians successes.

    Maybe. Maybe not
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    Post  Backman Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:32 am

    Glad i stopped following this war. It i's just a never ending repeat of the same shit. The retards like Rybar and Fighter Bomber are the worst part.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:00 am

    Backman wrote:Glad i stopped following this war. It i's just a never ending repeat of the same shit. The retards like Rybar and Fighter Bomber are the worst part.

    Nope.
    The worst part is the whining pussies who would have an issue with operating a screwdriver, raised as a Battlefield gods&generals.
    It usually comes along with undereducation and a lack of any wider perspective on any matter other than flushing the toilet and having a double cheeseburger.
    Those are the ones who form the audience of cash harvesters masqueraded as "telegram channel concerned content deliverer".

    This war goes 2.5 year+, yet they still catch the bait.
    Ukraine ceased to be capable of both repairing and refurbishing its own equipment just in the middle of Surovikins shift.
    As the whole story was no much click baiting, it just passed by for most - while it was a core business.
    Russkie unleashed a campaign to eradicate the Ukro industrial and repair gap. They have taken out every repair facility and field repair they could find one by one.
    For more than a year, almost every single piece of crap must be withdrawn not only from the frontline but is most cases from Ukraine.
    Transported here and there, is being additionally vulnerable to more destruction, but that is not the most important part.
    The clue is, that this gear is being repaired in Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Czech.
    Do you see any principal "gamechanger" "red line" of the already existing repair cycle in NATO countries?
    Was that an escalation?

    Gee! Call me surprised after 1.5 year!

    The most dumb part of ukro trolling is how the RUsskie data about downed planes is crap because they call a number higher than Ukrs operated.

    Gee! Really?!?

    Ukraine was left with more than a 1000 "borts". THOUSAND PLUS.
    Sure most of those were nonoperational.
    But only as long as you don't have money for that.
    If you have money - which is unquestionable for the case - most of those can be repaired and restored.
    And - geee! - those have been.
    All of the aviation repair business in Poland, Bulgaria, and Romania was involved.
    Pardubice are busy in restoring L-39s.
    It means nothing less rather than Ukro planes being operated from other NATO countries forever.
    NATO was busy collecting every single exSU plane they could gather - including MiG-29s that were in the US.
    Its number is sometimes called north of 40 pcs. FORTY+.
    Anyone questioning Russkie data on downed planes is dumb.

    So where is your escalation, clickbaiting pussies?

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    Post  Arrow Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:13 am


    Interesting



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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:25 am

    Arrow wrote:
    Interesting

    Only if someone was sitting in a black-painted jar with a lid on for the last 20 years.
    For the others, it would have been difficult not to realize that.

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    Post  nomadski Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:26 am

    Firebird wrote:
    nomadski wrote:Legally speaking and as GarryB also said , yes perhaps . If we see the totality of Ukrainian old borders as legitimate with territorial integrity . But if we don't , and we can not , as the new regions of Russia voted to join Russia , then old borders no longer legal . And NATO crossing old border ( no longer legitimate ) means nothing . However if they cross into Ukrainian occupied , Russian majority areas , then perhaps yes , based on the expressed desires of Russian population , to be part of Russia ? Russia however can still attack aircraft and bases in Ukrainian areas , or Ukrainian occupied areas , and NATO aircraft and bases , if they fly direct from NATO territory , without stopping in western Ukraine and attack Russian populated areas ? ( areas recently posted on map , coloured in Red ) . But NATO can not attack Russia , because they have not occupied Ukrainian majority areas . But Russia can attack NATO , because they occupy Russian majority areas . E.g : French in Odessa ?

    Legally speaking Russia needs to take the whole fucking joint. 10 years ago.
    It also needs to hit those faggots behind all this shit. Especially the United Snakes of Satan.
    It's not hard. Use the Houthis, the "Ukrainian Region Resistance Force", Iran, ANY group.

    Instigating a coup and overthrowing the lawful pro Russian govt, then installing Nazis to openly declare genocide and ethnic cleansing, and eventual invasion of Russia. There's no need to even HAVE a conversation about legalistic BS.

    Putin should have burnt his "intl law" books and snuffed out the Nazis in 2014. Infact, he should ahve reunified the Pukraine before the 2008 US orchestrated coup. Does Putin think he is still a law student or something.

    And I say this as an ex lawyer. There is "law" and there is REALITY. Or de facto and de jure to use  the legal terms.


    I hear you . And your frustration pointing to the injustice you feel about this legalities jargon . It is not a matter of either / or situation . But a question of degree or significance . As in a court of law , a sentence is passed with all relevant factors and their importance or significance . Take for example a Goat-herder living in a tent in the middle of the Saharan desert . Then he gets a nuke and money to press the button . He does so and wipes out America . The nuke belongs to Russia . Is he completely guilty and Russia has no responsibility at all . Should America then just satisfy itself by nuking the Goat-herder and absolve Russia from any responsibility ? This is obviously absurd . We should then use multi-valued logic and decide that 99% of responsibility resides with Russia , and 1% resides with the Goat-herder . In this case then a nuke counter-strike is justified on Russia !

    Similarly we could argue that the weapon systems , including the F16  used by the Orcs , are a product of America and that without them the Orcs could in no way manufacture locally , using local resources for the duration of war . It is therefore a significant amount of help and responsibility rests with NATO and yanks . In this way then a counter-strike on NATO by Russia is justified . And the argument to an either / or , based on who does the actual firing is a false argumentation . I think already Russia is justified in attacking NATO , irrespective of where these F16 land or take off from . Russia should no longer use the false excuse of refusing retaliation based on who gets to actual press the button .

    Rolling Eyes

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 39 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:52 am

    TBF here, Putin has made lots of dumb mistakes, he has played to nice, he has been to soft and more.

    He has been fair and civilised... the west seems to expect that to continue, but when it is clear there is only take and no give then the relationship will be over and there is no reason for any relations at all.

    The west is going to regret the way it has treated Russia... many in the west already do regret, but I am talking about people with power.



    I have seen a few videos where Lindsay Graham has admitted the real reason the west is in Ukraine is for 12 trillion in resources and assets that the US cannot allow to fall into Putins hands or escape Americas grasp...

    He does not care how many Ukrainians need to die for the US to achieve their goals...

    And already you have members of this forum encouraging Russia to turn the other cheek on that too

    'Just shoot down the jets, it's easy'

    Rubbish... it is the doomer brigade saying that Ukraine could fly from HATO air bases and remain in HATO airspace and launch long range attacks at Russian targets in Ukraine and in Russia.

    This comment from Putin puts such BS to rest as well as the stupid idea that HATO countries and territory are off limits to Russia so that is where the Ukraine should base its fight from... that could only lead to a war that continues after Ukraine has been defeated by forces in exile hiding openly in HATO countries.

    On the subject of the Eisenhower carrier, I wonder why the US spokesman said "we're are not aware of any damage". Rather than "we know for a fact and here's the evidence"?

    Because when damage is revealed, which they are most likely working very hard to cover up, they can claim they didn't lie because they didn't know.

    Not knowing is not the same as it didn't happen... it is like blow jobs in the white house... you don't remember... a bad memory wont get you kicked out of the top job in the US but it can keep you out of prison.

    People are misunderstanding Putins comments. They think he will not attack such planes in Romania and Poland even if they attack Russia because of what he said at SpIEF. Which I think his words were stupid and puts himself in a bad position. Context though what matters.

    Who gives a **** what such idiots think or say... just enjoy their surprise and indignation when Orc planes operating from Polish Air Bases get creamed after they land by Russian missiles.

    Why hit NATzO bases on NATzO territory when the F16s can be blown out of the sky when they cross the border? People dismiss Russian
    AD systems for some strange reason. Putin has to worry about escalation and will try to avoid feeding NATzO hysteria.

    Hit them in the sky, but if they are on the ground in a country that is supporting the nazi occupation of Ukraine then hit them there too... they are openly interfering and attacking Russian forces and that makes them a legitimate target and not a victim of aggression as stipulated in Article 5.

    Legally speaking and as GarryB also said , yes perhaps . If we see the totality of Ukrainian old borders as legitimate with territorial integrity . But if we don't , and we can not , as the new regions of Russia voted to join Russia , then old borders no longer legal . And NATO crossing old border ( no longer legitimate ) means nothing . However if they cross into Ukrainian occupied , Russian majority areas , then perhaps yes , based on the expressed desires of Russian population , to be part of Russia ?

    HATO forces arrived in Ukraine just after 2014 and have remained there. If you have aircraft operating from your airbases attacking a country... even if those planes don't belong to you and have pilots that are not yours then you are a party to the conflict and therefore are a legitimate target.

    Russia has not destroyed the Ukie Airforce,

    Well technically they have because the Ukraine didn't have 600 operational fixed wing aircraft when this conflict started...

    But you make a good point... all the Abrams tanks have not been destroyed yet because many are being hidden and not all are vulnerable at one time... they wont use them all at once and many will be kept in reserve and totally hidden to preserve them for use later on to replace those lost already.

    This should have been done ages ago, the russians are merely trying to force ukraine to stretch its forces, they have no intentions of going deep into Sumy, their kahkrov bufferzone wasn't fully accomplished, they failed to get all the gains they wanted.

    Are you telling us you know exactly what they will do?

    Because warfare is rather flexible and I suspect they have an overall plan and use specific tactics but depending on how the enemy reacts and responds and the tactics the enemy uses they will change their tactics to maximise their results.

    Their position and situation makes attacks on multiple points on the front lines makes sense but where are they going to push... are they going to push... will they try to get Odessa... are they talking in private with the leaders of occupied urban areas like they did in Manchuria in 1945... I would hope so, but we will just have to wait and see.

    Lmfao tires for protection and painted hopscotch jets

    What a shitshow, did the right people go to jail?

    Those painted planes are to fool lower resolution satellite imagery.

    BTW notice that in that big photo there appear to be three real aircraft and the one with the drone cage seems to be the one that was attacked by a drone.... yeah... that is convincing evidence right there...

    Putin should have burnt his "intl law" books and snuffed out the Nazis in 2014. Infact, he should ahve reunified the Pukraine before the 2008 US orchestrated coup. Does Putin think he is still a law student or something.

    Putin is in the process of creating a new world order and already has half the worlds population on board in the form of BRICS... an organisation that upholds ideals like no one is above international law and that working together and cooperating is better than tearing each other apart.

    He can hold up the actions of Russia and the west and show that the west is destroying itself breaking all of its own rules for international law and expected behaviour yet it is STILL LOSING.

    (ironic example ahead)
    Russia is a cyclist that does not do drugs that is beating Lance Armstrong in a cycle race that he is breaking every rule and taking every drug enhancement he can afford...

    Because it is not just about winning this war, it is about winning the peace afterwards too.

    If this is really the case, then I have no doubt that German “instructors” were directly involved in the preparation of this attack. Or American ones. Doesn't matter. Not that it was much of a revelation. Just another illustration of the involvement of the “collective West” in our war. And they stop being embarrassed to admit it."

    So you believe, no Su-35/Su-34 or Mi8 were hit either?

    I don't believe any claims by nazis till they are confirmed by independent or official Russian reports...

    Evidence is key because yes, fighter bomber lied plenty of times. Same with Rybar and others. Was their lie intentional? Maybe not. But because ego gets a hold of people easily because of their supposed credentials, it's better to keep lying about something they were wrong about rather than admit they were wrong.

    Any body who works for an organisation can have a grudge so believing lies and propagating them is often quite common... this manager is an idiot, or they steal from children, or they pollute or whatever... especially if they have a chip on their shoulder or shares in companies that make aircraft shelters.

    Interesting

    As I mentioned above Lindsay Graham said openly that the Ukraine is worth about 12 trillion in resources and that this conflict is not just about getting open access to those resources to power the west, but also denying said resources from Putins regime...

    Or is it about democracy and freedom?

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jun 11, 2024 7:42 am

    GarryB wrote:

    Or is it about democracy and freedom?


    Continuously.
    And well-being of little puppies.

    That is why Mrs. Tymoshenko was taped back in 2008 discussing fracking in Donbas, with only one small problem: "too many people, and would be better if they would have just disappeared".

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    Post  Firebird Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:29 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Firebird wrote:

    Putin should have burnt his "intl law" books and snuffed out the Nazis in 2014. Infact, he should ahve reunified the Pukraine before the 2008 US orchestrated coup. Does Putin think he is still a law student or something.
    .

    mate, are you serious? there's no law. whoever is taking about intl law is only selling his story. In 2014, BRICS were much weaker in terms of economy, military, and even the level of cooperation. The Russian economy would have collapsed in 2014 after so many sanctions were applied..  

    Are YOU serious?
    I just said there's no law.
    Putin should have known GAYTO's plans ever since he first took office.
    The pivot to the East should have been ready before 2008. The Tyumoshenko coup and the tie eater in Georgia were obvious enough reasons for the general public. I saw all this shit coming DECADES ago and I don't have contacts in the GRU etc.

    Russia didn't need to wait for BRICS. Its constituent countries still existed before then.
    And it wouldn't have collapsed in 2014. Simply that living standard would have been a little lower for a while.
    Huge war vs 7 day mil op+ slightly lower living standards.....?
    Putin himself admits he was wrong. And you ask if I am serious?
    The only question is WHY was he so wrong!
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    Post  Kiko Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:55 am

    Zelensky believed in his own immortality, by Irina Alksnis for RiaNovosti, 06.11.2024.

    A personnel desert is rapidly forming around Vladimir Zelensky. According to both Ukrainian and Western experts, Andriy Ermak, the head of the presidential office, concentrates maximum resources, powers and opportunities in his hands. But more and more prominent representatives of the Ukrainian elite are leaving their posts: some are leaving on their own, others are being sent into retirement. The process is very active - news about high-profile layoffs in Kyiv have become commonplace, which causes increasingly sharp and open discontent in the West.

    Recently, almost all the world's media have published publications with harsh criticism of Zelensky and Ermak, in whom they see the driving force of the events taking place. Yesterday gave a new reason for discontent: the head of the Agency for Reconstruction and Infrastructure Development of Ukraine, Mustafa Nayem (whom many remember well as one of the initiators of Euromaidan), resigned , and key employees of the agency wrote statements after him. It is alleged that Nayyem received the position with the assistance of the (now former) Deputy Prime Minister for Reconstruction - Minister of Development of Communities, Territories and Infrastructure, Alexander Kubrakov, who was fired a month ago by the Verkhovna Rada.

    It is curious that this process, if examined in more detail, is internally contradictory.

    On the one hand, everything is simple and clear: the Zelensky-Ermak combination, in the struggle to concentrate maximum power in their hands and retain it, gets rid of those whom they consider as uncontrollable and dangerous figures for themselves.

    On the other hand, it is also, in general, simple: events are developing unfavorably for Ukraine, unpleasant decisions with the appointment of a scapegoat lie ahead. Zelensky and his closest henchmen are the most obvious candidates for this role. Accordingly, fermentation has begun in Kyiv: someone is intriguing against the leader of the regime, someone prefers to distance themselves from the doomed and go into the shadows for a while.

    But then the strange things begin: the fact is that Zelensky and Ermak are primarily clearing out Western creatures - people who have personal connections in Europe and overseas, who, bypassing Bankova, are subordinate to Washington , London and other European capitals, who have a support group and influential figures who have promoted them to their respective positions. That is why the expired president and the head of his office increasingly find themselves the focus of criticism from the West, and the local media suffers due to the departure of Zaluzhny, Kubrakov, Nayem and other Kyiv figures from their posts.

    But this, if we think sensibly, is simply dangerous for the Kyiv leaders. Before our eyes, Ukraine is turning into another huge failure of the West, which will have to adjust its policy in this direction. The most reasonable thing in such a situation for Zelensky would be to prepare for his departure to an alternate airfield in the status of a sacred figure of the Ukrainian resistance, transferring responsibility to other people. But for this, in addition to a prepared golden parachute, the support of the West is necessary, which, of course, presupposes established relations with its establishment.

    Instead, Zelensky and his team act as if they seriously intend to retain power in Kyiv for many years to come, and in spite of the whole world. They regularly do not comply with the demands of the West and even publicly be rude to its leaders. And, of course, they steal like crazy, including Western money. That is, not only have Ukraine and specifically the Kyiv authorities already become a serious problem for the West, but Zelensky and Ermak are doing everything in their power to further anger Europe and the States as much as possible, as if they are confident in their inviolability, immortality and a bright future.

    What is the reason for such actions, which — given the circumstances — look just suicidal? There is no doubt that the West promised the Kiev authorities a lot at the time, including in terms of personal well-being and security in the future. But it is clear that his word is not worth a damn, and Zelensky — a tool that has almost completely exhausted its resource — represents an ideal sacred sacrifice for the next round of the fight against Russia.

    Or is it unclear? Most likely, that’s exactly it: it’s unclear.

    Zelensky and his inner circle are the flesh of the Ukrainian elites. And in recent years, they have demonstrated an amazing cocktail of qualities: extreme narrow-mindedness, inability to calculate the consequences of their own actions even two steps ahead, thievery to the point of losing the sense of self-preservation, and most importantly, outrageous conceit. Moreover, the West has done everything in its power to feed these qualities as much as possible - and now it is forced to deal with the results of its own labours, amazed and indignant at the disobedience of the Ukrainian puppets, their rudeness, ingratitude and deep dishonesty.

    Zelensky's fate doesn't really matter. The West will casually crush him when the time comes, but this will not make it any easier for it - the West - because Zelensky’s place (as well as Ermak’s place) will be replaced by very similar characters, just as unprincipled, greedy, boorish, with an incredible sense of their own greatness to whom everyone owes. The Ukrainian state, with the active support of the West, does not give birth to others. And these figures will provide their patrons with so many headaches that they will have time to curse a hundred times over the fact that they once decided to use Ukraine against Russia.

    https://ria.ru/20240611/proklyatie-1952072522.html

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    Post  Mir Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:24 am

    Aristonicus wrote:T-64BV mod.2017 tanks, BVP-2 and BMP-1TS infantry fighting vehicles of the Ukrainian 150th Mechanized Brigade at a training ground
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 39 150th_10

    All those pics looks a bit "old" - if you know what I mean? Wink

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