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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel Fri May 24, 2024 8:54 am

    Video of the destruction of the S-400 battery by ATACMS missiles.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1793893686998180059

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Fri May 24, 2024 9:28 am

    If the SAM can not be moved periodically , then armour ( shield curtains on wheels ) should surround the equipment . Turtule SAM ! The ATACMS seems not entirely accurate , relying on submunitions to destroy target . These are effective against soft targets . Therefore armour should work . The Radar can be easily replaceable or retractable inside shell or have redundancy back up Radar available .

    Rolling Eyes

    @ Walther

    The result of territorial division , depends entirely on force application .

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    Post  famschopman Fri May 24, 2024 9:56 am

    As far as I know the S400 is not designed to counter ballistic threats. The S500 should take that role. At least the battery should have been supported with shorter range assets like Pantsir and Tor systems to improve survivability.

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    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Fri May 24, 2024 10:15 am

    nomadski wrote:If the SAM can not be moved periodically  , then armour ( shield curtains on wheels ) should surround the equipment . Turtule SAM ! The ATACMS seems not entirely accurate , relying on submunitions to destroy target . These are effective against soft targets . Therefore armour should work . The Radar can be easily replaceable or retractable inside shell or have redundancy back up Radar available .

    Rolling Eyes

    @ Walther

    The result of territorial division , depends entirely on force application .


    The thing is apparently you cant really just move things around.  One thing to consider is coverage.  You would want your SAM's to cover the most if not all the area you wish to protect, this will constrain your deployment.  Both Russians and Ukrainians seems to be constrained to this. Use of pre-planned sites.  This may then allow your enemy to map when your site are filled, when it's emitting, when it goes offline as  they need to go offline anyway due to refuelling.  Do that enough times until you managed to established a pattern on when the site is really manned and online, then plan your attacks.  

    What Russians can do is to change their schedule more often, this however could result in a Battery stays way too short in an area to protect it.  The only saving grace is Russians still making these SAM's so they can afford to lose some. Ukraine not so much, thus why their Patriots cant seem to change anything, they mobilize it so fast to evade Russian attacks but in return they cant protect what they want to.


    famschopman wrote:As far as I know the S400 is not designed to counter ballistic threats. The S500 should take that role. At least the battery should have been supported with shorter range assets like Pantsir and Tor systems to improve survivability.


    It is designed to do such, at least for a target with 3 km/s speed which correspond to scud type Ballistic missile. The thing is that newsmakers and twitter experts never seem to really interested in how A.D battery operates in the first place. Thus forgot to ask questions like whether the battery is up or not, before suddenly moving to theory crafting like S-400 cant detect stuff etc while at the same time showing Ukrainian S-300 miraculously taking out multiple Russian missiles etc.

    Pantsir and Tor tho are not designed for ballistic threat like TBM tho, but they can do CRAM duties with target like HIMARS rockets which they seem to be doing routinely or small UAV's. but they wont be able to protect against ATACMS.. that at least requires something like Buk.

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    Post  famschopman Fri May 24, 2024 10:35 am

    It is designed to do such, at least for a target with 3 km/s speed which correspond to scud type Ballistic missile.   The thing is that newsmakers and twitter experts never seem to really interested in how A.D battery operates in the first place.  Thus forgot to ask questions like whether the battery is up or not, before suddenly moving to theory crafting like S-400 cant detect stuff etc while at the same time showing Ukrainian S-300 miraculously taking out multiple Russian missiles etc.

    Pantsir and Tor tho are not designed for ballistic threat like TBM tho, but they can do CRAM duties with target like HIMARS rockets which they seem to be doing routinely or small UAV's. but they wont be able to protect against ATACMS.. that at least requires something like Buk.

    In this case the S400 was clearly operational but failed to intercept the incoming threats. I can only assume the missiles performed evasive maneuvers or the detection/tracking algorithms need to be improved.
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    Post  Stealthflanker Fri May 24, 2024 10:39 am

    famschopman wrote:

    In this case the S400 was clearly operational but failed to intercept the incoming threats. I can only assume the missiles performed evasive maneuvers or the detection/tracking algorithms need to be improved.

    and how many threats tho. or whether it managed to separate decoys from real. Or it does intercept threat but the warhead is already open and spread the cluster munitions so nothing more it can do.

    Back in the day Patriots were able to acquire and engage scud but the warhead still fell on populated areas.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri May 24, 2024 10:52 am

    #слухи
    Against the background of corruption and negligent cases of construction of fortifications in the Kharkov region, the military was prohibited from discussing this topic with journalists and publishing any negative information about it. All leadership of brigades/military units/battalions, etc., were sent a manual on how to respond in this case.

    Anyone who decides to disobey the verbal order of the command (OP) will face an article of treason if they criticize the authorities for the lack of proper fortifications.

    Bankova is trying to hide corruption in the construction of defense structures, and also covers up thieves and idiots who failed the construction, and now Ukrainian soldiers are paying for this failure with their lives.
    https://t.me/legitimniy/179

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Fri May 24, 2024 11:14 am

    @ Stealthflanker

    I  have seen these SAM systems being deployed on several truck type vehicles . I remember they are connected by cables . I think therefore that each vehicle can be moved several meters ( say ten to twenty meters ) without cables running short . They can therefore be independently mobile within a radius of twenty meters or so . Coupled with armour , they can withstand an indirect hit by submunitions . Spare Radar dish can be carried to replace damaged Radar .

    Rolling Eyes


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YzgGB81Rsr4








    Last edited by nomadski on Fri May 24, 2024 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri May 24, 2024 11:20 am

    ucmvulcan wrote:
    mnztr wrote:.....

    Semi confirmation on facebook.  Per Redsamurai84, who has posted decades worth of Soviet/Russian military parades, "the commander of the 20th Combined Arms Army, Major General Suhrab Akhmedov has been relieved of his command. He was repeatedly involved in failed offensive operations with unjustified losses near Vuhledar. According to military sources, he is also accused of lying to the command staff by misleading them about the real situation on the frontlines, which allowed him to enjoy his position until now."

    Called it way back when it was happening but everyone started screaming how I'm spreading ukr propaganda

    Just like when I called the fuckups during first weeks of war and got permabanned for a while

    You people need to learn to call bullshit on bullshit instead of coping  pwnd


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    Post  JohninMK Fri May 24, 2024 11:39 am

    There are claims that whilst accurate the S-400 destruction is a video from last year.

    Meanwhile, on a more important action overnight as far as the SMO is concerned

    MD
    @distant_earth83

    The Kharkov railway after yesterday's flights. The locomotive depot, it seems, has left the chat.

    The Russian Armed Forces attacked the railway infrastructure in the Kharkov region at night

    Ukrzaliznytsia reports this and publishes a photo. It is noted that tracks, carriages and buildings were damaged.

    Yesterday, the Russian Armed Forces also hit a railway station in the Kharkov region, where trains of Ukrainian Armed Forces equipment and enemy personnel were passing through. - Ostashko reports

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    Post  GarryB Fri May 24, 2024 12:27 pm

    Have you heard of some high ranked Ukro official detained for corruption?

    Let alone US or French or British or German etc etc officials... with their multi billion dollar projects...

    Corrupt men get caught in Russia and go to jail... doesn't happen in the west it seems... and not because there are no corrupt men... trying to work out what is corruption and what is business is difficult in the west because they look the same.

    Basically Ukraine is going to be no more than Galicia when this thing is done.

    The amusing factor is that the neutral zone the Russians are going to create is going to be the depth of their weapons of greatest reach, so giving them longer ranged weapons means less territory left that Russia can ignore...

    Oh no, why so?

    Running out of fresh meat...

    May as well give that to Poland, as long as they agree to keep it demilitrized.

    Did you have to repost that entire message to make that comment?

    Equally reflect the range of these weapons from new Russian territory into Orc held territory and that is the distance the Russians would need to reach to assure these weapons can't threaten Russian territory...


    Thing is, there are no "settings", you can't really throttle a solid fuel rocket motor. Once it's lit, that's it. It'll just burn uncontrollably from there on.

    No adjustable throttle, but you can bake it in layers so the inner layer that burns first can be high calorie high energy fuel that accelerates the missile and gives excess energy to climb and accelerate to speed... depending on the launch speed and launch altitude will result in a certain altitude reached and a certain speed reached, and then the sustainer fuel starts burning and it essentially counters drag and allows the missile to maintain speed during its flight to the target area.

    Some missiles like the new R-77 version have a final stage fuel load that is separated from the main fuel that can be ignited at any time and is used for high speed high energy terminal attack on the target.

    The R-37 is not a new missile and its replacement is already being developed in the form of the Izd-815 with further improved performance.

    It seems the R-37 is already kicking it though so no hurry.

    Or you have a jet sustainer, which can be throttled to your heart's content.

    And also the risk of a stall, but with a jet engine you can shut it down and coast to the target area and then light it back up... new generation plasma ignition seems to be able to restart jet engines in a much wider range of speeds and altitudes...

    All of Ukraine needs to be taken and then de banderized throughly.

    I agree, but I don't think Kiev will be able to continue to put up organised opposition for the entire campaign... at some point they will collapse and then it will become more of a humanitarian mission to ensure stability and peace while elections and referendums are sorted out.

    As far as I know the S400 is not designed to counter ballistic threats.

    S-400 can deal with ballistic threats up to about 4.8km per second.

    The fact that they have had ATACMS for months and have only hit one or maybe two targets suggests there are specific circumstances they are exploiting... but hitting two targets a month is not going to influence the conflict or its result, and the fact that they are risking their HIMARS launchers to fire these missiles means the current advances by the Russian forces to push them back are fully justified and should continue.

    The S500 should take that role. At least the battery should have been supported with shorter range assets like Pantsir and Tor systems to improve survivability.

    I rather suspect they have calculated the distance at which TOR and Pantsir can hit ATACMs and that will be the distance they are getting their missile to release its submunitions. S-400 and TOR and Pantsir can all defeat ATACMS, but trying to hit hundreds of submunitions would be beyond any air defence systems.

    I would say mapping out potential targets and placing BUK systems on the flight path toward said systems would likely be their best bet in that regard because the submunitions wont glide long distances...

    Do that enough times until you managed to established a pattern on when the site is really manned and online, then plan your attacks.

    Or create decoy emitters and decoys and set them up at every launch site and have them all emitting all the time so HATO assets can't tell which is real and which is not.

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    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Fri May 24, 2024 12:40 pm

    JohninMK wrote:There are claims that whilst accurate the S-400 destruction is a video from last year.

    Where is this claim originates ? any vids ?

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    Post  ucmvulcan Fri May 24, 2024 1:36 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    ucmvulcan wrote:
    mnztr wrote:.....

    Semi confirmation on facebook.  Per Redsamurai84, who has posted decades worth of Soviet/Russian military parades, "the commander of the 20th Combined Arms Army, Major General Suhrab Akhmedov has been relieved of his command. He was repeatedly involved in failed offensive operations with unjustified losses near Vuhledar. According to military sources, he is also accused of lying to the command staff by misleading them about the real situation on the frontlines, which allowed him to enjoy his position until now."

    Called it way back when it was happening but everyone started screaming how I'm spreading ukr propaganda

    Just like when I called the fuckups during first weeks of war and got permabanned for a while

    You people need to learn to call bullshit on bullshit instead of coping  pwnd



    If I criticized you it was because it sounded like western propaganda. I don't speak for anyone but me but ai am here and on the many great twitter feeds I have found through here because in the west we are force fed BS and propaganda. If what is being said about Akhmedov and tbe other leaders being sacked by the new minister of defense is true, and it probably is, then yeah they need to go. So for me, it wasn't so much coping but being suspicious of western "journalism" and anything that sounded like it

    Arrow, Putin has been for peace talks since before the war began. That said, the Ukro puppets and their NATO puppet masters still want ultimatums and not peace, they've got profits to make off the deaths of Ukrainians. Putin wanting peace is true, the current situation? Well that would be most stupid. Ukraine has to be out out of range of the weapons NATO has given it

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    billybatts91
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    Post  billybatts91 Fri May 24, 2024 1:53 pm

    Hope this isn't true...

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    Post  kvs Fri May 24, 2024 1:55 pm

    Remember boys and girls, arrests for corruption in Russia are evidence of rampant corruption but lack of such arrests in the precious west
    means that there is no corruption. This is the logic of the western mass media over the last 30 years.

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    Post  kvs Fri May 24, 2024 1:58 pm

    zorobabel wrote:Video of the destruction of the S-400 battery by ATACMS missiles.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1793893686998180059

    S400? Identifiable from that video?

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    ucmvulcan
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    Post  ucmvulcan Fri May 24, 2024 2:04 pm

    billybatts91 wrote:Hope this isn't true...


    Its half true. Putin has wanted peace since the war began. That has been a problem. He keeps trusting thr west's word. He needs to be firm and finish this job
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    Post  Firebird Fri May 24, 2024 2:17 pm

    If he did that, then it would be irrefutable evidence he is a Western plant.

    To basically give up after all the sacrifices of Russian troops would be way beyond nonsense.
    Putin needs to finish the job, or be removed.
    He fucked up by waiting 8 yrs. And now the job has been substantially harder.

    Common sense says Russia is beginning to crush the Banderites.

    I think Reuters are basically saying the usual pack of lies "keep struggling to pay for food proles, that nasty Putin is on the verge of defeat".

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    Post  Stealthflanker Fri May 24, 2024 2:20 pm

    kvs wrote:

    S400?  Identifiable from that video?


    Doesnt matter tho as baseline S-300 and S-300PM can engage tactical ballistic missile. One potential problem they have is the warhead destruction. typical Blast frag warhead may actually not having enough lethality against missiles carrying bomblets or submunitions. God knows what missile armed that site.. if it's older 48N6P then that could be the issue as it's older warhead.
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    Post  kvs Fri May 24, 2024 2:24 pm

    It matters if the system is Russian as opposed to Ukrainian.

    But it is true that there is a lot of learning going on in this war.

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    Post  Stealthflanker Fri May 24, 2024 2:26 pm

    Also apparently Ukies attacking Russian BMD radar site at Armavir..

    I wonder how Putin would response..
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    Post  ucmvulcan Fri May 24, 2024 2:29 pm

    More generals removed, again per Redsamurai84, and I am in before some dumbass in the western media calls it Putin's Purge:

    "In another round of cleansing, Lieutenant General Vladimir Veretletsky, an officer for the Department of Ensuring State Orders of the Ministry of Defense has been arrested.

    Veretletsky has been accused of fraud on a mass scale. Previously, he gave profitable government tenders to familiar entrepreneurs.

    It is noted that he received a house and a car as a bribe."

    Though to be fair, every general in Washington must be laughing because corruption and being in bed with the MIC is all that matters in regards to promotion once you get a star.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri May 24, 2024 2:29 pm

    A rare bird.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 6 Photo330

    Four D-30SN dropped from Su-34.

    It is a 300 mm diameter modular system with a range of 90 km, and carries 230 kg warhead. Sattelite and inertial navigation.
    Can be used as a part of Tornado-S system as well.

    By the way, Yanuk has landed in Minsk this morning.
    Putin is there.
    Who wants to guess what they will discuss, that needed all three to be present?

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    Post  kvs Fri May 24, 2024 2:36 pm

    People are using a Reuters propaganda sample as a cue to evaluate Putin. Seriously?

    It is rather obvious that there will be no Minsk III.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri May 24, 2024 2:39 pm

    I guess that are the rumors assisting Yanuk/Batka/Vova "summit" that is going on right now.
    Some political solutions might be riping up.
    Those does not involve Cocainsky, clearly Laughing

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