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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

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    Post  Backman Wed May 31, 2023 6:24 am

    There was that seismic activity in Kiev a few days ago. But who knows. There was that meteor shower directly over Keiv allegedy , during a pretty serious air raid.

    It has Azovstal vibes. But even that, I am not convinced we have the full truth on. It just isn't Russia's or Putins style to overly publisize stuff like this. Maybe they had that one Canadian general down there that they just traded without making it public. The PR was bad enough when it was disclosed that they were trading high ranking Azov thugs.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed May 31, 2023 8:04 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 28 Photo170

    New offensive? We haven't deal with the previous one yet.

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    Post  nomadski Wed May 31, 2023 8:32 am

    An addiction . IMHO , micro- drone strikes on Moscow are being adequately and cost effectively dealt with by buildings , grass - verges and Asphalt Roads and Trees and Kremlin Dome and wall  ! No need to waste missiles on them , or sound Sirens . Good to see Hangar can be  taken out by missile strikes , a lesson for future target drone F16 deliveries . New pincers are developing ! Wash , Rinse , repeat . Russians need to be more forgiving on each other , in difficult times . Easy to blame .


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e5pwFbBsMlg

    Edit post strike on refinery : of course targets that are flammable or explosive should if viable be protected . Others only need walls to protect . However some targets very difficult to defend , because very big , such as oil and gas pipes . So here little defence , only option is offensive action , greater cost on the attacker .


    Last edited by nomadski on Wed May 31, 2023 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Regular Wed May 31, 2023 10:28 am

    Apart from Prigo barking there aren’t much blame game. 
    You still need to deal with small drones, those used in Moscow could have caused mass injuries and deaths and it was luck that none of these happened. I don’t think it will be ignored. The real question, what can be done against small low flying drones, it seems that shooting them over civilian areas is as dangerous as their strikes, but the interception has to be kinetic as these seem to be preprogrammed. You can’t really EW your own city, especially near civilian airport. There are way smarter people than me that will figure it out eventually.
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    Post  ALAMO Wed May 31, 2023 10:35 am

    Those drone attacks are nothing more than a terror campaign.
    There is only one good answer to terror, and seems like the latest seismic waves in Kiev proved that enough is enough.
    As I said, a nice, long bomb run down the Dnepr, flattering the luxury suburbs where the wealth of junta mainstays is accumulated, will do just fine.
    And FAB500 is perfectly well-suited for the mission.

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    Post  mr_hd Wed May 31, 2023 10:44 am

    Attack yesterday on Moscow was not done with microdrones. That was newest Ukranian drone type - only few pictures exist till now on internet, it has 4m wing span, it is not known how much range it has or payload etc... Attack was very successful. First Ukraine wanted to send message - so they send drones during day, second they are aware of Moscow air dafence, so causing large damage was not intention, it was rather message to Putin: look we can bring war to Moscow and other parts of Russia on our own wish. So it will not be only Ukrainian cities on receiving side. Still Ukraine must be cautious since many in West still do not approve attacks on Russian soil. But as conflicts drags on we will see huge rise of Ukrainian uavs, different models and types, some will have reach more than 1000km. So far this war was uav and artillery war. Today we Ukraine atacked refinery in southern russia, russia is too large country so there will be always paths to find through air defence and Ukraine knows this and will use it more and more for targets iit decides have value for them. There were days when Russia had to shoot 50 drones in one day so productuon in ukraine is growing exceprionally well too...

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    Post  Regular Wed May 31, 2023 10:57 am

    Their wealth is most likely moved to the west, real property would be just part of it and the value of it in post war Ukraine is questionable at best.
    Due to strikes on their HQs in the past GUR also operated from Poland during first months.

    It’s a tricky situation, you can’t really “decapitate” their leadership as who knows who actually run the show? Brits or yanks? I was wondering why this wasn’t done until I realised that it’s not just propaganda. Ukraine is completely controlled by their “partners”. Sorry for expression, but It’s like fighting cancer.


    pan, it is not known how much range it has or payload etc.

    Well, it’s now known for Russia. Plenty of chunks to piece things together. Kz-6 charge was used. 

    Their guidance is also clear by even looking at what they hit. Preprogrammed flight, low altitude, hit random buildings, crashed into terrain. 
    There is no need to depict it as Geran equivalent, but ignoring it is also not an option. Russians were working on anti-drone defences for some time (they have experience in Syria) so we might see some interesting solutions applied. Too bad that most of the shown research (in EXPOS) seems to be focused at countering advanced drones, not some wooden low flying shite.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed May 31, 2023 11:27 am



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    Post  GarryB Wed May 31, 2023 11:43 am

    Well, it is a cost effective tool proving again of how flexible Russians are.
    But the very same medicine applied against them would have been defeated in most of the cases.

    The thing is that all the new latest toys are like paper rock and scissors... nothing is omnipotent and there are things that can counter it easily.

    The west looks all powerful fighting third world countries because those countries almost never have the counter weapon... in Iraq there was no abundance of Kornets and large calibre RPGs to counter Abrams tanks... but later on they started to arrive and things weren't so easy.

    The availability of MANPADS and ATGMs and other SAMs and more importantly the total lack of long range cruise and ballistic weapons that the west is weakly defended against made those third world countries vulnerable to western attack, yet 20 years of HATO in afghanistan just revealed they are not nation builders either.

    Lots of Afghans still remember the good the Soviets did in the 1980s.

    The point is that medium sized drones and gliding bombs would be horribly vulnerable to Russian air defences and would be worse than useless because medium sized drones are not cheap and losing aircraft every time you try to launch a gliding bomb is too much of a cost too.

    For Russia conversely a medium sized drone to patrol the front line on the Russian side is a cost effective measure that makes sense and after degrading their air defences a gliding bomb is a very effective way to deliver large volumes of HE from a stand off range that keeps your aircraft safe from remaining individual air defence systems.

    Drones... recon and suicide drones seem to be the best solution to hunt down air defence and artillery vehicles on or near the front line too.

    It only took a year a half, and only one target

    The point is that decision making centre suggests there are not a lot of them and in the past the shit ideas they were coming up with were not worth interfering in, but now they are going the terrorist route hitting civilian targets a hit on them can be militarily justified, plus of course the introduction of F-16s and Storm Shadow missiles means airfields in the Ukraine should be hit hard and regularly too.

    As well as ammo and fuel dumps of course...

    Look at the cook offs rate. It is hilarious.

    The failed rounds look like quarter charges for propellent while the last round looked like it was massively over loaded with propellent.

    Looked like a 60mm mortar to me... very dodgy.

    Lucky they weren't exploding... they didn't even look like they were clearing the fence...

    So the rate is not determined by the Russian side. I think this is the optimal approach. NATzO escalation
    would arrive under any scenario where their proxies are losing

    The west has given lots of money and ammo and weapons and they want to see results which is going to force Kiev to mount an offensive... which will require grouping troops and armour and ammo and fuel together for an offensive... which creates groups of targets that cluster munition 300mm rockets and 220mm rockets and even 122mm rockets are designed to deal with from great distances...

    How did a swarm of Ukrainian drones manage to get through Russia's air defenses to arrive at Moscow?

    Lots of empty space in Russia where there is no population or SAM site sitting waiting to shoot things down... the weapons that are most effective against small targets like drones also tend to have a quite short range so to cover the border and every square metre inside the country would take millions of systems and what ever path the enemy planned for their attacks you can bet they would try to bypass as many of those systems as they could... rendering them useless.

    He isn't wrong though. Both sides are Russian and this is all Barbarossa 2.0 to depopulate and gain territory for them. Nothing has changed and the Western countries like in WW1 like in WW2 are and will be Russia's enemies.

    The US spending more money at a time when they should be saving and paying off some of their debt before it becomes overwhelming is a good thing for everyone.

    In this case this conflict is getting rid of the idiots who believe the wests bullshit and also the ones that are actually nazis... so this was a long time coming... having a good clean out of the greedy and the idiots... just a shame it is costing good lives to deal with it, but everyone dies... some might want to die of old age in their beds, but others would prefer to die doing something that matters and makes the world a better place... and killing nazis is probably as good as it gets until the aliens invade or the Covid zombies rise up...

    What means "wanted"?

    Probably means kill them and be welcomed by Russia...

    Russia needs to arm its population in the border areas; at least create some sort of territorial defence. Also use modern technology to monitor the border; put cameras and detection devices on all roads from Ukraine entering Russia.

    When Kiev armed its population in Kiev those idiots started shooting each other and their own troops seeing enemy forces everywhere...

    It is not as effective as it sounds.

    Creating a proper territorial force does make sense because it is controlled and coordinated...

    Find a fancy expensive residential building in Kiev and jam a cruise missile down the elevator shaft

    Find several

    They care less about their own civilians than they care about Russian civilians.

    What would be more effective is finding all the financial assets of the richest and most powerful still in the Ukraine and start blowing those things up and burning them down and those at the top will start getting told to change tactics or else.

    More importantly start hitting American and HATO related targets like the US Embassy which seems massively overstaffed to be an embassy really.

    If this is true then it's a big win for the russian air force. That's a lot of il-76.

    Would expect sabotage and booby traps galore...

    I can see each tank having a controller in a drone to warn it of threats and help with targeting and assign targets. imagine a formation of 4 tanks with 4 extra sets of eyes from drones with a gods eye view of the battlefield. Plus artillery to cover what is forward of the tanks.

    Imagine a modern tank like T-14 with three crew but also AI so the commander can command and the driver can drive and the AI can destroy targets as designated by the commander, so what would normally be the gunner is twiddling their thumbs... or perhaps controlling a drone.

    Or maybe an auto hover drone that the commander operates that has a flat recharging plate on the engine deck of the tank so it can land and charge up and then take off and hover and fly around looking for targets for the commander who might have it hovering 20m up or 3km up with MMW radar and thermal cameras to see all day and all night in any weather and spot and even mark targets for laser guided missiles etc etc.

    Just an idea to use up old stocks laying around and take out the enemy fairly cheaply. Yes the west might make a story out it, but the Russians will have the last laugh.

    I agree with what you are suggesting but it would be rather important to know what they are actually keeping in storage and what was recycled because it was obsolete.

    SA-1 and SA-2s are certainly obsolete though they did upgrade SA-3s for some countries because they can still be effective against cruise missile type targets at low to medium altitude.

    With the SA-1 and SA-2 then their rocket motors are useful as target practise for modern SAMs and their old warheads could be removed and used on medium sized drones as dumb bombs.

    Another example would be old 180mm guns they used for a while... very good range but not widely used... perhaps HE shells could be used as free fall bombs for smaller drones (they are lighter than most aircraft delivered bombs). Equally things like 160mm mortar bombs can be used as HE warhead payloads in suicide drones... a 40kg HE fragmentation bomb already designed and made... just unscrew the fins and propellant and fit a fuse.

    Missiles like the SA-6 are backwards compatible with some systems so mounting an older SAM on a vehicle would lead to shorter range and lower accuracy but against some targets still very much good enough... you could even use them against ground targets in their original role for many of their larger SAMs.

    Would the berm still be there after it goes up?

    A berm works by directing the force of the explosion upwards to reduce the chance of it setting off piles of ammo nearby... it often fails with large volumes of ammo because unexploded rounds are blown into the air on fire and land inside other berms and continue to burn until they explode too, but the concept is sound if you build it right... but obviously for a big offensive they are gathering up too many munitions in too small a place which makes them an easier target.

    Closer to the front line they will be in much smaller caches and for instance if you have 155mm artillery shells you would distribute them in single firing loads so the gun would turn up and fire off the shells and then leave to the next location.

    It is like a distribution network or aircraft system... you have your international airports and your bigger air strips down to more local airfields to areas mown on a paddock with most of the bigger rocks removed. The point is that you might have a dozen international airports but thousands of airfields and tens of thousands of air strips.

    You can shoot down the planes and hit the airfields but there will always be plenty of both...

    There was that seismic activity in Kiev a few days ago. But who knows. There was that meteor shower directly over Keiv allegedy , during a pretty serious air raid.

    Yeah, they said out of 200 meteors the Kiev air defence shot down 190 of them and only ten hit the ground... Rolling Eyes

    They will have to be careful with their bullshit because some in the west will be thinking their air defence works so why would they need any more...

    The real question, what can be done against small low flying drones, it seems that shooting them over civilian areas is as dangerous as their strikes, but the interception has to be kinetic as these seem to be preprogrammed.

    I suspect agile fast drones that are slightly bigger and faster and perhaps dragging a net or something similar to disable the threats... a large net would be best as most targets will likely destruct when caught so you want it to be far enough away from your drone so that your drone is not damaged so a rather bigger drone will be needed I guess.

    Something that can shoot but is only effective over a short range would be ideal... a shotgun armed drone that can fly to 20m away from the target drone and then fire a few buckshot rounds at the target.

    At 20m the buckshot would hit very hard and break things like propellers and damage batteries and motors and structure but at 100m it wont be dangerous at all because the round balls are not very aerodynamic and slow down relatively rapidly.

    The large number in each shot increases your chance of getting a hit, while their smaller size (than a solid slug) means they don't retain energy to remain dangerous over longer distances like a slug or a rifle bullet would.

    Today we Ukraine atacked refinery in southern russia, russia is too large country so there will be always paths to find through air defence and Ukraine knows this and will use it more and more for targets iit decides have value for them.

    Which is why Russia has to totally eliminate Ukraine as a country and an idea... escalating will just bring more suffering to the Ukrainian people, but you are too stupid to end it now and get the best deal for now... you want to prolong it so you get less and suffer more... it has always been your choice, but by the time you see that there will be not much choice left.

    The irony is that the Minsk agreements were going to get you way more than you could have taken by force then or now.

    Production of drones in the Ukraine can be targeted too.

    It’s a tricky situation, you can’t really “decapitate” their leadership as who knows who actually run the show? Brits or yanks? I was wondering why this wasn’t done until I realised that it’s not just propaganda. Ukraine is completely controlled by their “partners”. Sorry for expression, but It’s like fighting cancer.

    Cancer gets voted out at the end of next year...

    Russians are better able to wait for a good result than end it now and being doing this all again in about 4 or 5 years from a rather worse position.

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    Post  Hole Wed May 31, 2023 11:50 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 28 Fxcufb10
    Before the strike there were 7 Su-24Ms
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 28 Fxz6ft10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 28 Scree710
    First pic of a Patriot missile hitting something.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed May 31, 2023 11:58 am

    Interesting, I doubt that the designers of heat seeking SAMs thought about this risk Laughing

    The pictures show a hit on the top flat of a building.

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    ⚡Ukr SAM missed its target and hit a building apparently drawn by the heat from the flue pipe of a domestic gas boiler.

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    Post  Tolstoy Wed May 31, 2023 12:05 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Find a fancy expensive residential building in Kiev and jam a cruise missile down the elevator shaft
    This is not an upmarket area of Moscow. Mostly middle class families live here.

    Medvedev already said yesterday that Russia has not targeted civilians in Ukraine and will not do so despite this attack. And that makes sense, targeting civilians in Ukraine gives us no meaningful advantage, instead such actions might turn thousands of Ukrainians living in Russia against the Russian state.

    To avenge and prevent such attacks, US should be made to pay a price.

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    Post  Regular Wed May 31, 2023 12:17 pm

    Russia needs to arm its population in the border areas; at least create some sort of territorial defence. Also use modern technology to monitor the border; put cameras and detection devices on all roads from Ukraine entering Russia.

    Franco posted this at the page 16 of this thread with a link to the article. It happened almost the same day after the raid. I think it’s much better solution than simply arming the population (good luck trying to get weapons back, not to mention FF incidents… also, of you have no structure, you can forget about heavy weapons or integration with other branches, especially FSB borderguards) 



    Franco wrote:At present, 7 territorial defense battalions have been created in the Belgorod region in the regions bordering Ukraine. This was stated by the Governor of the Belgorod region Vyacheslav Gladkov during a live broadcast on a social networks

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    Post  JohninMK Wed May 31, 2023 12:43 pm

    As the only ship left in the Ukrainian Navy she must have been the flagship and possibly the last ship in that navy, ever.

    Cicke 🇷🇸 🇷🇺 🇺🇸☮🇧🇷🇮🇳🇨🇳🇿🇦
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    According to unconfirmed reports, as a result of a series of attacks on targets in #Odessa, the #Ukrainian landing ship "Yury Olefirenko" was destroyed - the last large ship of the Ukrainian Navy on the Black Sea.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 28 FxZ2uVFXwAAxHqf?format=png&name=360x360

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    Post  ahmedfire Wed May 31, 2023 1:43 pm

    Massive losses for Ukr Navy

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed May 31, 2023 1:47 pm

    mr_hd wrote:Attack yesterday on Moscow was not done with microdrones. That was newest Ukranian drone type - only few pictures exist till now on internet, it has 4m wing span, it is not known how much range it has or payload etc... Attack was very successful. First Ukraine wanted to send message - so they send drones during day, second they are aware of Moscow air dafence, so causing large damage was not intention, it was rather message to Putin: look we can bring war to Moscow and other parts of Russia

    message was passed: no more Ukroreich with its narko futhrer?





    So it will not be only Ukrainian cities on receiving side
    .

    in nazi side only parts of the cities are targeted: patriot missile, British missile carriers or nato related intel bunkers like last one in Kiev. Buh it had to hurt burh isnt it?

    Today we Ukraine atacked refinery in southern russia, russia is too large country so there will be always paths to find through air defence and Ukraine knows this and will use it more and more for targets iit decides have value for them. There were days when Russia had to shoot 50 drones in one day so productuon in ukraine is growing exceprionally well too...

    so drone production cannot be targeted like intel bunker Kiev or nato airdefence center in Lvov ?

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 28 Tell-me-about-9xvlj2


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    Post  Podlodka77 Wed May 31, 2023 1:54 pm

    Here he is, the on-call Nazi MR HD who dreams of destroying Moscow. I would like to see what the city and country you live in will look like if what you dream about happens. Are you really that stupid ?

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed May 31, 2023 2:40 pm

    Looks like akhmat has arrived to Marinka zone to begin assaults on Avdeyevka

    Once this zone is pressed and cleared, the last Ukrainian stronghold on the left bank will be Slavyansk-Kramatorsk

    Behind Slavyansk and Kramatorsk is flat land all the way to Pavlograd and Dnepropetrovsk

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    Post  ucmvulcan Wed May 31, 2023 2:58 pm

    mr_hd wrote:Attack yesterday on Moscow was not done with microdrones. That was newest Ukranian drone type - only few pictures exist till now on internet, it has 4m wing span, it is not known how much range it has or payload etc... Attack was very successful. First Ukraine wanted to send message - so they send drones during day, second they are aware of Moscow air dafence, so causing large damage was not intention, it was rather message to Putin: look we can bring war to Moscow and other parts of Russia on our own wish. So it will not be only Ukrainian cities on receiving side. Still Ukraine must be cautious since many in West still do not approve attacks on Russian soil. But as conflicts drags on we will see huge rise of Ukrainian uavs, different models and types, some will have reach more than 1000km. So far this war was uav and artillery war. Today we Ukraine atacked refinery in southern russia, russia is too large country so there will be always paths to find through air defence and Ukraine knows this and will use it more and more for targets iit decides have value for them. There were days when Russia had to shoot 50 drones in one day so productuon in ukraine is growing exceprionally well too...

    I am reminded of Herr Goebbels talking about how the Wehrmacht now had a new wonder weapon that would win the war even when his listeners could hear heavy artillery and see IS-2s and T-34s driving down Unter die Lenden Strasse.

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    Post  ucmvulcan Wed May 31, 2023 3:04 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:Here he is, the on-call Nazi MR HD who dreams of destroying Moscow. I would like to see what the city and country you live in will look like if what you dream about happens. Are you really that stupid ?
    My guess is he is an American. Compton, Scranton, East St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, Gary, Trenton are all cities that are more devestated than Bakhmut. The difference is Bakhmut will be rebuilt in a few months. Then there is Chicago, Kansas City, St. Louis, Atlanta, Birmingham, Oakland etc where you probably would ffeel safer in Donetsk and Lugansk when the Nazis are shelling. Pay no mind to Goebbels. He is a US doofus and as HL Mencken once said, nobody has ever gone broke betting on the stupidity of thr American people.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed May 31, 2023 3:26 pm

    Rember the danger talking to a chimp!

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed May 31, 2023 4:10 pm

    Another American fled to Russia - Tara Reade

    Fearing for her life after accusing biden of sexual assault

    1) Ed Snowden
    2) Tara Reade

    Many Americans have already fled political persecution to Russia, maybe we could see Donald Trump one day in Russia

    It's funny how things work, the US is the new prison of people, and Russia has become the free world

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Wed May 31, 2023 5:03 pm

    Ukraine was probably going to use that landing ship to cross the Dniper.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed May 31, 2023 5:24 pm

    Last time I have checked, Nikolayev was located on the other river bank 😋

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    Post  Belisarius Wed May 31, 2023 5:40 pm

    Results of the attack on the warehouse of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Zhytomyr
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 28 Screen20
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 28 Screen19

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