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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

    Broski
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    Post  Broski Fri May 19, 2023 9:57 am

    GarryB wrote:The Ukrainians in the four new Russian regions were never Russian, but the treatment by Kiev has made them hate Kiev and they would rather be Russian than what Kiev has become.

    Russia should not bother saving western Ukraine, which is not to say they should not bomb the shit out of them at some stage, but I would say cutting what is left of the Ukraine off from the Black Sea and allowing parts of Moldova to be part of Russia or neighbours of Russia instead of neighbours of Ukraine makes a lot of sense.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Novor
    The whole country needs to be demilitarized and denazified right up to the Polish border but only half of it is worth incorporating into the Russian Federation.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri May 19, 2023 10:16 am

    The Dniepr offers a good protection to Ukrainians. It will be bloody hard to cross for Russians. I doubt they will go for the western part.

    If they go they will have to push from Belarus and make a landing in that half island part under Moldova under the threat of Harpoon missiles.

    For the eastern part they won't let any land to ukraine so Kiev will at least be on the border (Dniepr). So once the russian army comes there the fighting will probably destroy Kiev.

    On the other hand, having the Dniepr as a border will strenghten Ukrainian position and will be a natural obstacle in any future war if Ukraine goes into NATO. And ukrainians will keep harassing them with artillery accross the river so the fighting will continue 10 years at least.

    Russia has no other choice than take all Ukraine. So IMO the plan is right now is to kill as many ukros as possible and let just the normal peopke that refuse the war who either hide or leave the country because once they are the only ones left they will be easy to rule over if they annexe the country.

    With the fanatics they will have attacks every day if they annexe it just like US in afghanistan or Iraq. So until they kill at least 80% of them they won't push to take territory.
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    11E


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    Post  11E Fri May 19, 2023 10:42 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    Comments about Cocainsky can't be repeated in civilized discussion Laughing

    Couple of weeks ago, my son came from school, and told me that the Ukrainian children at his school had a very low opinion (cursing and swearing) of their president. He was surprised and I was surprised also to be honest.

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    JohninMK
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

    Post  JohninMK Fri May 19, 2023 11:14 am

    Delivered by APC to their deaths. Fairly slow moving missile, LMUR?

    chris__759
    @chris__759
    ·
    12h
    #Russian 🇷🇺 forces hit a Ukrainian 🇺🇦 position in the area between "citadel" and "tetris" sector in #Bakhmut city.

    📌48.585396, 37.967357



    EDIT: Location added

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Fwcf7s9WIAA4tT1?format=jpg&name=360x360

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Fwcf7s4WAAItnhi?format=jpg&name=small


    Last edited by JohninMK on Fri May 19, 2023 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Hole
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Empty Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

    Post  Hole Fri May 19, 2023 11:25 am

    According to Turkish media sources, as a result of the Russian strikes on Ukrainian air defense, the volume of destroyed and fired MIM-104 anti-aircraft guided missiles in only two days amounted to a third of the annual production in the United States. lol1

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    GarryB
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

    Post  GarryB Fri May 19, 2023 11:57 am

    Garry, OF COURSE the people of the 4 new regions were Russian.

    Took 8 years of being bombed by Kiev before they decided to have a referendum to join the RF.

    In comparison Crimea had about half a dozen referendums to join the RF where joining RF was the preferred choice which was ignored by Kiev.

    The "Ukraine" was an artificial crook and traitor led breakaway self governing region of the USSR since 1991.

    I totally agree, but Russia accepted the existence of the Ukraine and their control of the Crimea until the people of the Crimea were in a position to decide otherwise, which Russia also accepted.

    What you're saying is like saying "people from Moscow aren't Russian, they are Muscovite".

    No. What I am saying is that the people in those eastern regions accepted being called Ukrainians by Kiev until Kiev started cutting off economic ties with Russia which they had quite significant ties to cut, and also Kievs demand to not speak Russian was a deal breaker, so they resisted but they didn't start talking about joining the RF till Kiev had shelled them for the better part of a decade and murdered those who were not anti Russian.

    The whole country needs to be demilitarized and denazified right up to the Polish border but only half of it is worth incorporating into the Russian Federation.

    I think you are being way too generous with the blue and yellow, and what is that shit over by Polands border?

    I understand that after every conflict in Europe that Poland sneaks in and steals land when no one is looking... but not this time sunshine.

    The Dniepr offers a good protection to Ukrainians. It will be bloody hard to cross for Russians. I doubt they will go for the western part.

    If the Dniepr offers protection from artillery and drones and british missiles then that would be fine, but as it does not I am sure they will be able to cross it in lots of places...

    With the fanatics they will have attacks every day if they annexe it just like US in afghanistan or Iraq. So until they kill at least 80% of them they won't push to take territory.

    You mean like the Chechens?

    The nutters were dealt with fairly quickly and efficiently... an insurgency in Afghanistan is not the same... they have nothing to lose... and living in a third world country is OK.

    The kids of Kiev these days will surrender if the internet is blocked for a week.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Fri May 19, 2023 12:05 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Fwdecp10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Scree704
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Scree705
    Another day, another train with tanks

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Fri May 19, 2023 12:34 pm

    11E wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:
    Comments about Cocainsky can't be repeated in civilized discussion Laughing

    Couple of weeks ago, my son came from school, and told me that the Ukrainian children at his school had a very low opinion (cursing and swearing) of their president. He was surprised and I was surprised also to be honest.

    The key can be, who they are.
    Both relocated to Poland a long time ago.
    In both cases, after maidan.
    Don't consider return.
    So they can be considered as some kind of refugees, actually.
    Opened own business here already.

    Sad conclusion is that when I have asked if there are many people with such opinions left in Ukraine, they denied it.
    And said openly, that the remaining part is hardcore bandera scum at a big part.
    Of course, they couldn't get idea who was stupid enough to bet on the Bander ideology as a nation-building glue, when half of the Ukrainians hate him.

    Last but not least, when I have asked if they are not afraid to loud this kind of opinion, they have just answered: we are telling the truth, while the others are lying. They should be afraid, not us.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 19, 2023 12:47 pm

    Broski wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Novor
    The whole country needs to be demilitarized and denazified right up to the Polish border but only half of it is worth incorporating into the Russian Federation.

    Only the Donbass is worth incorporating. Why do you think I should be stuck in the same country with people from Odessa, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhie, Nikolayev who have been cheering on the Ukro army since 2014, or them with me? And I could care less if they're "Russian" or not. There are plenty of Navalny and regime-change supporting Russians who've fled to the EU, Georgia, Israel and other states and good riddance to them, we wouldn't want to be stuck in the same country together either.

    Firebird maybe you should move to Russia yourself, for starters. And then we can figure it out from there.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri May 19, 2023 1:26 pm

    Hi Flamming Python, if Russia leave the land (especially in the south west like Odessa) to them then it will never have security in Crimea or in the Kherson region.

    Russia cannot afford the existence of a tumor like the Ukrainian state again. Especially one occupying historical russian lands, including Kiev. Otherwise they will again create problems in the future.

    If the Bandera followers do not like Russia they can go to Canada, US or Australia.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri May 19, 2023 1:42 pm

    Re the post in the now other thread re Turkish estimates of MIM-104 losses in last couple of days. The 30% estimate of current annual production translates into about 80.

    The US is now saying the Patriot is back in operation after minor repair. Its a pity that the Russians hardly ever provide photo evidence of their claims.

    I forecast that we will see rapidly reducing evidence from the local population as the SBU cracks down harder. If that video hadn't appeared the US would not be facing the current embarrassment.

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri May 19, 2023 1:45 pm

    Need to put this somewhere safe. A real transport hub, I think adding the railways would demonstrate its importance even more. It may have been semi flattened but its location, location, location.

    "Why is this town so important to both Russia and Ukraine? Seems like a lot of people are dying for a town most people outside of Ukraine have never heard of."

    GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 --
    @GeromanAT
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    This is why

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 FwcD2vhWAAs3mZM?format=jpg&name=small

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri May 19, 2023 2:31 pm

    If the Dniepr offers protection from artillery and drones and british missiles then that would be fine, but as it does not I am sure they will be able to cross it in lots of places...

    It offers a good protection against advancing troops.

    With MLRS and US satelittes intel' ukro can attack the positions where russians would try to cross and put minefields around.

    Crossing is possible but with lot of losses. We already saw such bad endings previously in the war on both sides when they tried to cross minor rivers. Here it is a big one and would be more difficult.

    Best way to cross is actually through cities on the Dniepr where artillery fire is difficult thabks to buildings and with lot more bridges and civilian boats. In the open you are at the mercy of artillery and missiles.
    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Fri May 19, 2023 5:52 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Need to put this somewhere safe. A real transport hub, I think adding the railways would demonstrate its importance even more. It may have been semi flattened but its location, location, location.

    "Why is this town so important to both Russia and Ukraine? Seems like a lot of people are dying for a town most people outside of Ukraine have never heard of."

    GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 --
    @GeromanAT
    ·
    14h
    This is why

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 FwcD2vhWAAs3mZM?format=jpg&name=small

    Allow me to add a data: heigths in eastern Donbass.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Donbas12

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    Post  mnztr Fri May 19, 2023 6:03 pm

    Bit of a contradiction there isn't it... period of high inflation with the price of food going up and rent always being high and you think the US government can increase tax levels to make everything even more expensive so they can keep spending money like it is falling from the sky? That would cause riots. wrote:

    Its going to be on corps and people making over 400K.
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    Post  franco Fri May 19, 2023 6:13 pm

    Ukrainian bloggers have revealed the reason for hiding the real number of losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces

    https://twitter.com/SandraHelena39/status/1659346749041827840?cxt=HHwWgICz_fPEl4cuAAAA

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    Post  dionis Fri May 19, 2023 6:37 pm

    franco wrote:Ukrainian bloggers have revealed the reason for hiding the real number of losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces

    https://twitter.com/SandraHelena39/status/1659346749041827840?cxt=HHwWgICz_fPEl4cuAAAA

    $500K per Ukrainian soldier sounds like BS. Any one have an original link to a UA website stating this?
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    calripson


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 Empty Spoken like someone who doesn't make 400k a year

    Post  calripson Fri May 19, 2023 7:33 pm

    mnztr wrote:

    Its going to be on corps and people making over 400K.

    400k a year for a couple in states like California or New York is upper middle class. They are already paying about 50% of their income in taxes when you add federal, state, local, and sales tax. More pertinently, most of those people making 400k are producing productive income. That's not the problem. The problem is not income disparity it is wealth disparity: intergenerational wealth measured in hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. They love taxing the slumps making 400k because that just limits their future competition.
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    Post  mr_hd Fri May 19, 2023 7:35 pm

    We are witnessing huge Ukrainian diplomatic offensive right now.
    Zelensky was last week in Germany, Italy, France and UK. His wife was in S. Korea at the same time. Huge deals are made, not only for further supply of advanced weapons, trainings etc. but also cooperation and new export orders for Ukrainian defense sector that is going through massive technological transfer and expansion... And now Zelensky is touring Arab league and G7. He is also reaching to India, China and African countries...

    Ukraine is making sure to go after Russian interests and prestige globally. It is also turning itself in bastion of NATO and thus making sure to do exactly opposite against Russian military interests long term. They will get western jets too. So after 1 year Ukraine is getting all strategic weapons requested, no one could predict such development when war started.

    Russia can not achieve strategic goals in Ukraine anymore, Russian solders are dying for nothing there.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Fri May 19, 2023 7:41 pm

    Diplomatic offensive? Is that what they call the discount for a clown show these days? Razz

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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 19, 2023 7:42 pm

    mr_hd wrote:We are witnessing huge Ukrainian diplomatic offensive right now.
    Zelensky was last week in Germany, Italy, France and UK. His wife was in S. Korea at the same time. Huge deals are made, not only for further supply of advanced weapons, trainings etc. but also cooperation and new export orders for Ukrainian defense sector that is going through massive technological transfer and expansion... And now Zelensky is touring Arab league and G7. He is also reaching to India, China and African countries...

    Ukraine is making sure to go after Russian interests and prestige globally. It is also turning itself in bastion of NATO and thus making sure to do exactly opposite against Russian military interests long term. They will get western jets too. So after 1 year Ukraine is getting all strategic weapons requested, no one could predict such development when war started.

    Russia can not achieve strategic goals in Ukraine anymore, Russian solders are dying for nothing there.

    lol

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    Post  Isos Fri May 19, 2023 7:43 pm

    He us just afraid of going back in Kiev. Kinzhal is waiting for them. Medvedev I think said on twitter it's time to get ride of him after the attack on the Kremlin.

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    Post  mnztr Fri May 19, 2023 7:44 pm

    calripson wrote:
    mnztr wrote:

    Its going to be on corps and people making over 400K.

    400k a year for a couple in states like California or New York is upper middle class. They are already paying about 50% of their income in taxes when you add federal, state, local, and sales tax. More pertinently, most of those people making 400k are producing productive income. That's not the problem. The problem is not income disparity it is wealth disparity: intergenerational wealth measured in hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. They love taxing the slumps making 400k because that just limits their future competition.

    Death taxes are also part of the equation, i seriously doubt anyone making 400K is paying 50% tax in the USA. Yes I agree that wealth transfers need to be heavily taxed above a certain threshold.

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    Post  mr_hd Fri May 19, 2023 7:45 pm

    Yes Russia is totally overshadowed by Ukraine diplomatically or more precisely it is getting huge slaps right and left straight to its face past few days.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 19, 2023 7:52 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Hi Flamming Python, if Russia leave the land (especially in the south west like Odessa) to them then it will never have security in Crimea or in the Kherson region.

    Russia cannot afford the existence of a tumor like the Ukrainian state again. Especially one occupying historical russian lands, including Kiev. Otherwise they will again create problems in the future.

    If the Bandera followers do not like Russia they can go to Canada, US or Australia.

    The problem comes not from the state but from the population themselves. Well not exactly a problem, it's a difference of opinion and its not going away, not matter what common state you try to form. Forming a common state means that this state will be undermined as the Soviet Union was. Hence why the Ukraine and Russia need to be separate. The Bandera followers are only an extreme manifestation of a persistent general nationalism. What Russia needs is a neutral Ukraine, that won't invite NATO onto its territory, won't block Russian access to Pridnestrovie, and won't push claims on the parts that broke off from it where the people don't want anything to do with it. On these terms it's possible to come to agreements with many forces in the Ukraine that would be ready to oppose Zelensky if the conditions are right.

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