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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

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    Post  Sujoy Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:29 pm

    Both the Patriot Advanced Capability-2 (PAC-2), which is a larger blast fragmentation weapon, or the Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3), which is a hit-to-kill capability that directly strikes more maneuverable targets, could have utility for the Ukrainian military.

    So why are they not being sent to Ukraine by NATO? Because these advertised capabilities are questionable especially when they have to intercept Kh-101 and Kalibre missiles.

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    Post  billybatts91 Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:55 pm

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    Post  GarryB Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:47 pm

    The fact that ALAMO and others have gotten ballistic at the simple clear request of clear photographic that the a himars or m270 was destroyed, shows the level of delusion and retarded butthurt some habe here. The deflections are also hilarious.

    I don't think anyone went ballistic, but demanding clear photographic evidence is pretty empty isn't it...

    An image isn't proof of anything and absence of a photo is not proof that something didn't happen either.

    Both the Patriot Advanced Capability-2 (PAC-2), which is a larger blast fragmentation weapon, or the Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3), which is a hit-to-kill capability that directly strikes more maneuverable targets, could have utility for the Ukrainian military.

    Not sure where you get your information from but PAC-2 is normal Patriot and PAC-3 is a specialised model designed to intercept very high speed ballistic targets.

    The PAC-2 would be used against cruise missiles, though would not be ideal, PAC-3 would be totally useless against aircraft or cruise missiles and would only be effective against incoming missile targets.

    Both are inferior to THAAD in terms of ballistic missile defence and all three together would be overall inferior to S-400 while costing a significant amount more to buy and operate.

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    Post  Isos Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:38 pm

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    Post  Arrow Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:01 pm

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:06 pm

    And this is why I call the whole HIMARS hype as ridiculous. Russkie have a edge here either, and the way Ukrs are using them only shows crazyness of the situation. That are staged commercial, the same as IT was with other Wunderwaffe im the past. It lacks both range and firepower, and the Ukrs had much better systems before. That repeats the story of Javelins and NLAWS. Heard of those lately? Yeah, me neither. But what I watched for a while was the fact, that none of those came event close to Stugna... The same way HIMARS is not event close to Smerch or event Uragan...

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:09 pm

    So that means Ukie claims without photos can be true okay then.

    for the 8th time, HIMARS and Smerch are designed for different roles, they are not comparable. This is just cheap deflection
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:21 pm

    Agree. Smerch is a weapon of war while HIMARS is a showpiece of MIC grift.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:26 pm

    Your types never learn I guess.

    Call it what you want, the system has proven itself in the field. I don't need to say anything else, so to avoid a pointless back and forth I'll leave it at that
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    Post  Scorpius Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:31 pm

    Investigative Committee of Russia: More than 3 thousand bodies of civilians killed by Ukrainian troops were found in Mariupol after the fighting.
    Chairman of the Investigative Committee of Russia Alexander Bastrykin held a meeting of the headquarters for investigating crimes of the Ukrainian military in Mariupol. As told during the meeting, after a full survey of the city, the bodies of more than three thousand civilians were found. The damage to the city is estimated at 176 billion rubles.

    "Unable to leave the city and moving in search of food, civilians became a living target for Ukrainian punishers who committed their murders with various types of weapons. So, only in April 2022, the bodies of 51 civilians were found in positions abandoned by Ukrainian troops, and after the complete liberation and examination of the city, their number amounted to more than three thousand," the TFR report says. The agency claims that the soldiers of the National Guard of Ukraine artificially prevented the evacuation of civilians from the city.

    The TFR also stated that the results of the investigation of the deaths of civilians indicate the involvement of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the executions of the population. "In this regard, it was proposed to organize work on the formation of a DNA database of persons killed in Mariupol for its use in solving the tasks assigned to the investigation, as well as to enable relatives to find out the fate of their loved ones who are missing," the report added.

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5757186

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    Post  Hinex1988 Fri Dec 30, 2022 9:36 pm

    ⚡ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (30 December 2022)

    📄 Part 1 (read Part 2)

    ◽ On 29 December, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation launched a massive attack, using high-precision long-range air- and sea-based armament, at the military control framework, and the power facilities that ensured operating of Ukrainian defence industry.

    ◽ The goal of the attack has been reached, all the assigned targets have been neutralised.

    ◽ The attack has resulted in stopping the production and maintenance of military hardware and ordnance, as well as in terminating the redeployment of reserve forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) from western regions of Ukraine.

    ◽ The disruption of rail traffic, the foreign-manufactured armament delivered for the AFU is blocked in the rear areas.

    The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation.

    💥 In Kupyansk direction, artillery attack has resulted in the neutralisation of the manpower and hardware of the units from 14th Mechanised Brigade of the AFU near Petropavlovka, and 92nd Mechanised Brigade of the AFU near Kruglyakovka (Kharkov region).

    ◻ Up to 60 Ukrainian personnel, 3 armoured fighting vehicles, and 2 pickups have been eliminated.

    💥 In Krasniy Liman direction, the attacks launched by Russian aviation and artillery at the manpower and hardware of 110th Territorial Defence Brigade near Yampolovka (Donetsk People's Republic) has resulted in the elimination of over 40 Ukrainian personnel, 4 armoured fighting vehicles, and 5 motor vehicles.

    💥 In Donetsk direction, successful offensive operation of Russian forces has resulted in the neutralisation of the units from 25th Airborne Brigade of the AFU near Krasnaya Gora, and 60th Mechanised Brigade of the AFU near Kleshcheyevka (Donetsk People's Republic).

    ◻ The enemy has lost up to 50 Ukrainian personnel, 3 armoured personnel carriers, and 4 pickups in the abovementioned direction.

    💥 In South Donetsk direction, the attacks, launched by Army Aviation and artillery at the concentration of the units from 72nd Mechanised Brigade of the AFU near Novomikhaylovka, as well as from 108th Territorial Defence Brigade near Prechistovka, have resulted in the elimination of over 70 Ukrainian personnel, 5 armoured fighting vehicles, and 6 motor vehicles.

    #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
    @mod_russia_en💥

    https://t.me/mod_russia_en/5608

    ⚡ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation in Ukraine (30 December 2022)

    📄 Part 2 (read Part 1)

    💥 Missile Troops and Artillery of the groups of forces have neutralised 73 AFU artillery units at their firing positions, as well as manpower and hardware at 86 areas.

    ◻ 1 radar of Ukrainian S-300 air defence missile system has been destroyed near Lebedin (Sumy region).

    ◻ 2 U.S.-manufactured AN/TPQ-50 counterbattery warfare radars have been detected and destroyed near Vesyoloye and Chasov Yar (Donetsk People's Republic).

    ◻ Moreover, within the counterbattery warfare, 2 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled artillery systems have been destroyed near Berestovoye and Krasnogorovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

    ◻ 1 fighting vehicle of Grad multiple-launch rocket system (MLRS), as well as D-20 and D-30 howitzers have been destroyed near Lozovaya (Kharkov region) and Malinovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

    ✈💥 Fighter Aviation of Russian Aerospace Forces has shot down 1 MiG-29 of Ukrainian Air Force near Novoyelizavetovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

    ◻ 2 Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters have been shot down near Druzhkovka and Yablonovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

    💥 Air defence facilities have shot down 6 fighting unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), including 3 Strizh jet-propelled UAVs.

    ◻ In addition, 8 Ukrainian UAVs have been shot down near Kakhovka, Genichesk (Kherson region), Kremennaya and Oborotnovka (Lugansk People's Republic), as well as 1 Bayraktar TB-2 UAV near Ochakov (Nikolayev region).

    ◻ 8 rocket-propelled projectiles, launched by HIMARS and Uragan MLRS, have been destroyed near Mospino, Novoye (Donetsk People's Republic), Svistunovka, Pervomaysk and Troitskoye (Lugansk People's Republic).

    ◻ 1 U.S.-manufactured HARM anti-radiation missile has been intercepted near Gorlovka (Donetsk People's Republic).

    📊 In total, 355 airplanes and 196 helicopters, 2,756 unmanned aerial vehicles, 399 air defence missile systems, 7,313 tanks and other armoured combat vehicles, 954 combat vehicles equipped with MRLS, 3,746 field artillery cannons and mortars, as well as 7,827 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.

    #MoD #Russia #Ukraine #report
    @mod_russia_en

    https://t.me/mod_russia_en/5609

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    Post  lancelot Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:15 pm


    BOOM.

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:27 pm

    Oh boy, probably an old shell. You gotta be careful when using old ammo, there is a chance it will kaboom you.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:37 pm

    the system has proven itself in the field.

    No, it has not, and that is a point that you are incapable of understanding.
    You lack fundamental knowledge of alternative systems and how these are armed and operated.
    But of course to compare 9K58 with both M270 and HIMARS is not fair, as both are different tiers of artillery.
    The direct equivalent would be 9K57, and here starts the magic.
    Russkie system was accepted for operations a DECADE earlier.
    Its loaded vehicle is FIVE TONS lighter, yet carries 16, not 12 missiles - if we compare to M270.
    There is no point to make further explanations, as the Soviets operated 122 and 300 mm systems on the other levels, supported by a waste array of ballistic missiles. Every single time the US came out with something, it was after the Soviets already had that, in quadruple digits, and supported by other systems that made the whole artillery structure tenfold more deadly. Your Wunderwaffe ATACSM was fielded again more than a decade after the Soviets had hundreds of OTR-23 systems, supported by thousands of Tochkas.
    I can do that like forever, spanking your uneducated ass is the same relaxing as watching a woman parking.
    Most HIMARS strikes are being carried out against civilian infrastructure in terror-style attacks. Doneck is being hit by it on a daily basis, and we don't talk about military objects, but strictly civilian ones. They don't even target anything, just randomly unleashed those on a million-population city. Yet again, the most deadly strikes were carried not by HIMARS but Tochkas they had.
    The efforts that are being applied to its operation are enormous and costly. We can clearly see that every piece is being babysat by the whole echelon of support, including SOF teams that are carrying recon&cover for them. A PIECE. Not a battery or a battalion. A PIECE. Is it a joke? Laughing
    We hardly see any mass usage of those, the salvos consist of FEW missiles. The most massive use we saw was TWO pieces shooting some 8 or so missiles. Not even a full salvo. A joke Laughing
    So far, the most publicized usage was killing their own in jail while they know perfectly well who was there, and multiple attempts to take down the Artemovsky bridge that they didn't succeed with.
    The latest hype about "tungsten fragments" is beyond any comprehension, because nobody with any practical knowledge will be impressed by that.
    Last but not least, Russkie are intercepting the missiles on a daily basis.

    So what we have, is a system that is being operated in pieces, required enormous logistic support, is being used in hit&run tactics against civilian infrastructure in most of the cases, and its missiles are being regularly intercepted if used against a defended targets.
    Even with enormous assets applied to hide every single vehicle, the Ukrainians admit that they have lost most of the systems already.
    And that of making your claim how battle-proven Wunderwaffe it is.
    Hilarious.

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    Post  Isos Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:45 pm

    Both fire rockets. But HIMARS has guided rounds which allows better precision as long as GPS is there. Smerch and Uragan are supposed to destroy a large zone. As long as they fire on that zone they do their job.

    Russia is introducing guided rockets which will make them as good as HIMARS for pinpoint attacks.

    Guided rounds are more expensive but the precision is worth the extra money and it uses les rounds which makes it a replacement for su-25 or su-34 on the front when needed. Reaction time is way better than the time needed for sending a bomber. 5 min compare to tens of minutes or sometime few hours for getting a plane. Also cheaper than a plane.

    It also fires at longer ranges than krasnopol.

    Himars is doing its job.
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    Post  psg Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:59 pm

    RF forces have developed methods on how to counter them, which have been proven in the field, interception, algorithms and software updates, tracking abilities and target recognition. Buk-m3, Pantsir and Tor-m2, have intercepted Himars Rocket artillery, also with the physical destruction of said systems and support vehicles.

    With loitering munitions, counter battery search radars and AD systems networked, this is the best method without utilising Special forces in the enemy rear.

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    Post  Hole Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:04 pm

    I can do that like forever, spanking your uneducated ass is the same relaxing as watching a woman parking.
    lol1 lol1 lol1 lol1

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 5 Fln5tq10
    No damage found in Engels. 
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    Post  Isos Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:04 pm

    They are still struggling finding them. If they had their air force flying high above enemy rears and using their artillery radars they would be all destroyed in few days.

    They would also need good EO pod with thermals.

    Orion drones in mass could replace bombers but they don't have many of them to cover all the front 24/7. Drones are slow and can't go fast enough to the area where the himars was detected firing by artillery radars. If they have many of them covering the front they will always have one drone nearby the himars.
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:23 pm

    For counter-battery work 9K58 Smerch MLRS has captive drone rockets which can be sent over to circle around and hunt for the retreating HIMARS launch units with very minimal preparation.

    Against a moving target it can employ cargo rockets with detachable sensor-fuzed submunitions that can destroy even heavily armored tanks thanks to their top-attack profile.

    HIMARS has nothing on the Smerch.

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    Post  limb Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:24 pm

    Whatever himars is, an MIC commercial or effective, theres no clear photos of them destroyed like with burevoy. That makes claims of their destruction as true as ukrainian MoD claims of 100000 soldiers killed.


    And no, blurry long distance photos dont count. Those are as truthful as oryx claims.

    Yes, himars gmlrs are being shot down, yes, their ammo supplies get blown up from time to time. No theres no confirmed photo of a destroyed himars or M270 launcher, no matter how much mercouris or blumenthal vids you send.
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:25 pm

    New post psg Today at 12:59 pm

    RF forces have developed methods on how to counter them, which have been proven in the field, interception, algorithms and software updates, tracking abilities and target recognition. Buk-m3, Pantsir and Tor-m2, have intercepted Himars Rocket artillery, also with the physical destruction of said systems and support vehicles.

    With loitering munitions, counter battery search radars and AD systems networked, this is the best method without utilising Special forces in the enemy rear.


    That is not even the point.
    Ukraine owned a very potent MIC capable of creating several very interesting types of weapon, even if we consider the enormous scale of corruption and the fact that most of it were hanging on Russia.
    Same applies to the MLRS.
    Before the war started, Ukrainian army already operated its own breed Vilkha 300mm system that eats the HIMARS or M270 alive.
    Vilkha M2 had a range of more than 200km with a special reduced payload rocket, and some 130 km with full load, 250kg warhead. It was internal navigation system, but the missile used GPS as support correction, and very unusual correction mechanism consisting of dozens of small nozzles.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 5 39755110

    It allowed the CEP of about 10m for 130-150km distance, and slightly worse of 30m when used full range.
    Yet we talk a quarter ton warhead delivered along the street.
    Filled with let's say those :

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 5 D8594910

    The whole system was designed to operate with Bayraktars for long range recon and target acquisition.

    It is a very modern and potent system they do operate even now, supported with vanilla 9K58 they had, and 9K57 they had, and Tochkas they had, and Grads they had ...

    There is no Wunderwaffe that could impress them much.

    The very same applies to anti-tank weapons. The early hype about Wunderwaffe NLAW and Jevein faded away when it turned out thet the most potent and versatile system they have is a long-range Stugna missile system. Today, we see most of the remains of Ukrowehrmacht using goo' ool' RPGs they had hundreds of thousands in storage.

    The same applies to anti air means - what they are using effectively and in numbers was a huge number of S-300PS and Buk-M/M1 they had. Multiple Osas they had. How are you going to impress them with the use if NASAMS?!?

    It is all a shitshow. A fairy tales made for sponsors from MIC, and it will be carried out only as long as they will pay the bribes for that.
    There is not a word about Bayraktars for months now.
    Silence about Javelins and NLAWS.
    Hype about NASAMS and IRIS ended even before it started for good, and most of the pics we have shows Buk and S-300 systems being used.

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    Post  limb Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:27 pm

    I don't think anyone went ballistic, but demanding clear photographic evidence is pretty empty isn't it...

    An image isn't proof of anything and absence of a photo is not proof that something didn't happen either.

    Nope, 4 users here went on ballistic butthurt 2 page long fueled personal insults and deflections at the simple request of a clear photo of a destroyed himars or M270.

    The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, just like those iraqi WMDs rumsfeld talked about.

    Vilkha M2 had a range of more than 200km with a special reduced payload rocket, and some 130 km with full load, 250kg warhead. It was internal navigation system, but the missile used GPS as support correction, and very unusual correction mechanism consisting of dozens of small nozzles.

    And just like himars and M270, not a single vilkha, olkha launcher or whatever has been confirmed destroyed. Why do you think this is? Russians, like most militaries, just suck at destroying long range mobile MLRS.

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    Post  thegopnik Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:37 pm

    What a boring war.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:43 pm

    Whatever himars is, an MIC commercial or effective, theres no clear photos of them destroyed like with burevoy. That makes claims of their destruction as true as ukrainian MoD claims of 100000 soldiers killed.

    No it doesn't, as the Ukrainian MoD claims about 100000 soldiers killed are trivially disprovable, while the Russian MoD claims are not. We simply have no idea. Nor is it reasonable to expect that photos or evidence will exist, unless the Russians themselves provide it - which they can't as the means with which they engage these systems are long-range and won't have video feeds. The Ukrainians meanwhile will no more provide evidence of destroyed HIMARS than they would of masses of destroyed tanks and armored vehicles in the initial stages of the war. Yet we can conclude that they must have suffered them, else Zelensky wouldn't have been demanding fresh tank supplies already in the 2nd month of the war. With the HIMARS we will receive no such feedback though, as deliveries and requests for specific systems in smaller numbers will be done under the table.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:00 am

    The Tornados are like HIMARS in the aspect that they are wheeled and can change modules.

    However, the Tornado uses unguided munitions its is just a wheeled rocket arty that is all. It does have some degree of satellite navigation system but its not like how HIMARS works, you clearly do not know what you are talking about. This doesn't surprise me you have an awful habit of making false statements all the time.


    Yes, the system is proven itself, it forced the Russians to retreat for Kherson, it had hit important infrastructure protected by AD, it has eluded attempts to destroy it. The facts speak for themselves.

    Thats proof the system is capable, you just don't want to admit you're wrong that is all, HIMARS isn't designed to be saturation arty like Smerch, Urugans or Tornados.

    It's designed to perform pin point accurate strikes and drive away 10 seconds later and get out of the area before the enemy can react. That is why it doesn't need a bunch of rockets and that is why comparing the systems is stupid, one is designed to destroy over a large area another is designed for highly accurate surgical strikes that make needing that many missiles pointless.

    Vilkha's are also just a poors mans smerch that can fire fast these claims about how accurate it is, are just propaganda claims IMO, I have seen nothing to suggest its has anywhere near the capability Ukraine claims....again not comparable to HIMARS at all. You don't got your facts right at all

    Sorry Alamo but you keep pulling the tomato and oranges argument and its false.

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