Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32

Tolstoy wrote:

Arrow wrote: India is the world's third economy

Self fulfilling bias at its best. Either you are Indian or one of those notorious Indian forum members have shared such garbage with you.

India is the world's 6th largest economy after US, China, Germany, Japan and probably even U.K.

Most importantly their per capita income is 1/5 of that of Russia's. That's how poor a country it is.

India in PPP is the world's third economy. It is so and you do not change it, you give the nominal economy and this is a worse indicator. India has a GDP of $ 11 bilions USD.

Erk wrote:
Reads like a load of anti-Russian propaganda to me.

Russia has acquired 20% of the territory of Ukraine and many millions of the citizens.
Close to 8million Ukrainians have fled as refugees, so a country that once had 43million population, is down to what, 28million or so and falling.

Russia has never been more popular to the non-aligned countries, the so called global south.
Who would have thought so many countries have put their hand up to join BRICS, it's all to do with what Russia is fighting for.

It's a marathon not a sprint and it doesn't sound like Russia is loosing to me.

You are smoking some good cope!

Russia has lost the war dude, they will leave Zaporozhye eventually after a "difficult choice", and Putin will try to get a deal for LDNR and Crimea

That's the best he will do

He can declare victory once if takes Donbass and frame it as a victory

The zombies which follow him and the rest of the bureaucracy will also fall in line and keep repeating it and calling anyone who disagrees a traitor or a 5th columnist - and he will retain his power - that is if Ukraine doesn't push him out of Crimea and Donbass, then he will be removed

Ukraine won the war already , simply by existing and retaking vast amounts of its land, and land which Russia annexed as its own , is a victory for Ukraine

They fought a war of survival, and took casualties but ended up regaining their lands and their sovereignty, NATO also is entrenched in Ukraine and has killed thousands of Russians and destroyed Russian infrastructure

The Russian surgical approach failed, the only hope for the copium addicts is a winter offensive, but I doubt it will come considering the Kremlin is already trying to get some peace talks setup

The Russian army could have won, simply by conducting heavy strikes and leveling the infrastructure, the offensives would have been easier and less casualties taken

But the leadership elected this ridiculous strategy as a compromise with the liberals like Putin , Medvedev, and the rest of the security council pretending to be patriots

NATO also has seen the limits of the Russian army, and if they fight like that , NATO has nothing to worry about, they can bomb Russia savagely while the Kremlin won't use nukes to preserve lives

Russia has acquired 20% of the territory of Ukraine and many millions of the citizens. wrote:

Now it is less than 20% of Ukraine.

Tolstoy wrote:

Azi wrote: Yes, it's true that Russia also has asian roots, not to mention the geography...but the european influence is too big.

Precisely! This is why despite the fact that Russia is going to win hands down in Ukraine Putin should NOT burn the European bridge for the sake of some discredited, meaningless mostly third world gatherings like BRICS and SCO.

WTF are you smoking? Russia has never in its history fully unified itself with Europe and I don't think it ever will or can. If Russia did that, they would become a larger Poland with nuclear weapons. They would not be a sovereign and independent power anymore and the European influence would rot Russia from the inside out. You would see all kinds of vultures descending upon Russia, like they did after the collapse of the Soviet Union. We know what a disaster it was in Russia from 1991 to 2000, this would be far far worse.

The only way Russia could have any good relations with some European countries is if people like Berlusconi, Schröder and Chirac were running things in their respective countries and in Europe as a whole, but we know those days are pretty much over. People in Europe don't vote for folks like that anymore and America wouldn't allow it either.

The BRICS are not a meaningless third world joke, are you stupid? The BRICS are a serious group that doesn't want to see Western hegemony over the whole planet. The momentum is on their side. They have far more people they represent then the West does (who are in a demographic death spiral currently), they will have the larger GDP combined, more and more countries want to join it and help end Western hegemony (a majority of the planet hate the West and Western people for what they did during the colonial period). It is a great alternative to the Western imperialist system and anyone thinking they are a joke or it's gonna go away somehow is delusional and quite frankly very very stupid, doesn't follow current news and where the future trendlines are headed. How is the West gonna defeat the BRICS? They will have to learn to accept them and deal with them, because they will not boss them around anymore like they did in the past. This is the reality.

I would say that America and Europe will have greater internal issues and problems to deal with than the emerging BRICS will have. These internal issues will weaken the West greatly in the coming decades and a lot of it will be of their own doing.

Tolstoy wrote:

Arrow wrote: India is the world's third economy

Self fulfilling bias at its best. Either you are Indian or one of those notorious Indian forum members have shared such garbage with you.

India is the world's 6th largest economy after US, China, Germany, Japan and probably even U.K.

Most importantly their per capita income is 1/5 of that of Russia's. That's how poor a country it is.

India itself is quite rich as a country. Its people are poor.

Isos wrote:

India itself is quite rich as a country. Its people are poor.

There are certain "caste" of Indians that are like "oligarchs" or "new russians" in 90s. But yes.

I do hope that these times won't create much financial and social division in Russia.

Arkanghelsk wrote:

Erk wrote:
Reads like a load of anti-Russian propaganda to me.

Russia has acquired 20% of the territory of Ukraine and many millions of the citizens.
Close to 8million Ukrainians have fled as refugees, so a country that once had 43million population, is down to what, 28million or so and falling.

Russia has never been more popular to the non-aligned countries, the so called global south.
Who would have thought so many countries have put their hand up to join BRICS, it's all to do with what Russia is fighting for.

It's a marathon not a sprint and it doesn't sound like Russia is loosing to me.

You are smoking some good cope!

Russia has lost the war dude, they will leave Zaporozhye eventually after a "difficult choice", and Putin will try to get a deal for LDNR and Crimea

That's the best he will do

He can declare victory once if takes Donbass and frame it as a victory

The zombies which follow him and the rest of the bureaucracy will also fall in line and keep repeating it and calling anyone who disagrees a traitor or a 5th columnist - and he will retain his power - that is if Ukraine doesn't push him out of Crimea and Donbass, then he will be removed

Ukraine won the war already , simply by existing and retaking vast amounts of its land, and land which Russia annexed as its own , is a victory for Ukraine

They fought a war of survival, and took casualties but ended up regaining their lands and their sovereignty, NATO also is entrenched in Ukraine and has killed thousands of Russians and destroyed Russian infrastructure

The Russian surgical approach failed, the only hope for the copium addicts is a winter offensive, but I doubt it will come considering the Kremlin is already trying to get some peace talks setup

The Russian army could have won, simply by conducting heavy strikes and leveling the infrastructure, the offensives would have been easier and less casualties taken

But the leadership elected this ridiculous strategy as a compromise with the liberals like Putin , Medvedev, and the rest of the security council pretending to be patriots

NATO also has seen the limits of the Russian army, and if they fight like that , NATO has nothing to worry about, they can bomb Russia savagely while the Kremlin won't use nukes to preserve lives

Changing allegiances in the self-afflicted panic are we archy?

Don't forget to change your avatar to the blue & yellow

billybatts91 wrote:

Tolstoy wrote:

Azi wrote: Yes, it's true that Russia also has asian roots, not to mention the geography...but the european influence is too big.

Precisely! This is why despite the fact that Russia is going to win hands down in Ukraine Putin should NOT burn the European bridge for the sake of some discredited, meaningless mostly third world gatherings like BRICS and SCO.

WTF are you smoking? Russia has never in its history fully unified itself with Europe and I don't think it ever will or can. If Russia did that, they would become a larger Poland with nuclear weapons. They would not be a sovereign and independent power anymore and the European influence would rot Russia from the inside out. You would see all kinds of vultures descending upon Russia, like they did after the collapse of the Soviet Union. We know what a disaster it was in Russia from 1991 to 2000, this would be far far worse.

The only way Russia could have any good relations with some European countries is if people like Berlusconi, Schröder and Chirac were running things in their respective countries and in Europe as a whole, but we know those days are pretty much over. People in Europe don't vote for folks like that anymore and America wouldn't allow it either.

The BRICS are not a meaningless third world joke, are you stupid? The BRICS are a serious group that doesn't want to see Western hegemony over the whole planet. The momentum is on their side. They have far more people they represent then the West does (who are in a demographic death spiral currently), they will have the larger GDP combined, more and more countries want to join it and help end Western hegemony (a majority of the planet hate the West and Western people for what they did during the colonial period). It is a great alternative to the Western imperialist system and anyone thinking they are a joke or it's gonna go away somehow is delusional and quite frankly very very stupid, doesn't follow current news and where the future trendlines are headed. How is the West gonna defeat the BRICS? They will have to learn to accept them and deal with them, because they will not boss them around anymore like they did in the past. This is the reality.

I would say that America and Europe will have greater internal issues and problems to deal with than the emerging BRICS will have. These internal issues will weaken the West greatly in the coming decades and a lot of it will be of their own doing.

First time I agree with you on anything

franco wrote:Can someone put this up, this old fart cannot!

https://twitter.com/makeUsmallA/status/1591017877540593664/photo/1

on behalf of Franco.

@ Franco, if you go to your windows start button. and type "snip" you see a program called "snipping tool".
With this you can drag a box over your screen to save that selection to an JPEG

limb wrote:How realistic is it for Russia to capture bakhmut, avdeevka and maryinka by 2024?

How realistic is it that Brother Garry finally blocks you and rids us of your idiotic comments..?

flamming_python wrote:

billybatts91 wrote:

Tolstoy wrote:

Azi wrote: Yes, it's true that Russia also has asian roots, not to mention the geography...but the european influence is too big.

Precisely! This is why despite the fact that Russia is going to win hands down in Ukraine Putin should NOT burn the European bridge for the sake of some discredited, meaningless mostly third world gatherings like BRICS and SCO.

WTF are you smoking? Russia has never in its history fully unified itself with Europe and I don't think it ever will or can. If Russia did that, they would become a larger Poland with nuclear weapons. They would not be a sovereign and independent power anymore and the European influence would rot Russia from the inside out. You would see all kinds of vultures descending upon Russia, like they did after the collapse of the Soviet Union. We know what a disaster it was in Russia from 1991 to 2000, this would be far far worse.

The only way Russia could have any good relations with some European countries is if people like Berlusconi, Schröder and Chirac were running things in their respective countries and in Europe as a whole, but we know those days are pretty much over. People in Europe don't vote for folks like that anymore and America wouldn't allow it either.

The BRICS are not a meaningless third world joke, are you stupid? The BRICS are a serious group that doesn't want to see Western hegemony over the whole planet. The momentum is on their side. They have far more people they represent then the West does (who are in a demographic death spiral currently), they will have the larger GDP combined, more and more countries want to join it and help end Western hegemony (a majority of the planet hate the West and Western people for what they did during the colonial period). It is a great alternative to the Western imperialist system and anyone thinking they are a joke or it's gonna go away somehow is delusional and quite frankly very very stupid, doesn't follow current news and where the future trendlines are headed. How is the West gonna defeat the BRICS? They will have to learn to accept them and deal with them, because they will not boss them around anymore like they did in the past. This is the reality.

I would say that America and Europe will have greater internal issues and problems to deal with than the emerging BRICS will have. These internal issues will weaken the West greatly in the coming decades and a lot of it will be of their own doing.

First time I agree with you on anything

Hey, there's a first time for everything?

flamming_python wrote:

Changing allegiances in the self-afflicted panic are we archy?

Don't forget to change your avatar to the blue & yellow

This whole charade has been a debaucle of epic proportions

I smoked the cope early on, but I'm good off cope - reality is a better stimulant anyway

Remember that Russia has over 10,000 tanks in storage while Ukraine has most likely no more than 500 tanks in active service. Russia thus can expand the mobilization and flood Ukraine with weapons if needed. A long war benefits Russia.

Podlodka77 wrote:

limb wrote:How realistic is it for Russia to capture bakhmut, avdeevka and maryinka by 2024?

How realistic is it that Brother Garry finally blocks you and rids us of your idiotic comments..?  

I see youre low on copium so youre lashing out. Go read some more TASS and watch some more konashenkov.

Arkanghelsk wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Changing allegiances in the self-afflicted panic are we archy?

Don't forget to change your avatar to the blue & yellow

This whole charade has been a debaucle of epic proportions

I smoked the cope early on, but I'm good off cope - reality is a better stimulant anyway

Na, it's just a case of you being an easily bored passenger.
Go play Pokemon Go or something

Rest of us are in here for the long-haul, Russia is too and I'm sure Surovikin knows what he's doing. He's been given right of way to persecute the war as he sees fit in the same way General Grant was in the US Civil War, so leave the man to it and quit dooming.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Remember that Russia has over 10,000 tanks in storage while Ukraine has most likely no more than 500 tanks in active service. Russia thus can expand the mobilization and flood Ukraine with weapons if needed. A long war benefits Russia.

10000 ?
There are more, far more tanks. Over 10,000 T-72 tanks and over 4,500 T-80 tanks remained in Russia after the collapse of the USSR.
I agree with this second part of the message, because I also wrote something similar yesterday, that is, that a long war suits Russia because the European economy is suffering. The conflict in Ukroshitstan has long been far more than an armed conflict. The Russians have NEVER declared publicly and shown that they want to occupy/liberate Nikolaev and Odessa, but that was the "plan" of the forum members. The Russians have a land corridor to Crimea and that is what is obviously important to them. I'm not sure about Kharkov, time will tell.

Ukroshitstan was already a severe misery even before this conflict, while now it is largely depopulated (over 25% of the population is already on the Russian side), with a destroyed army and destroyed infrastructure. The money that comes from the West to artificially maintain Ukroshitstan will not come forever. And even that Western "paper" (money) no longer has coverage, but is being printed indiscriminately.

The Russians have NEVER declared publicly and shown that they want to occupy/liberate Nikolaev and Odessa, but that was the "plan" of the forum members.

Yes that's right. However, it would be logical to cut off Ukraine from the sea and make an overland corridor all the way to the Transnistria.

Once said;"You can say, where and when war begins. However, you can't say where and when it ends." Russia is in point now that the soup must be finished, no matter how sour it is.
Ukraine is not giving up and does not seek any sort of deal. Why should they? They have bleed a lot, and if ruskies is pushed a bit, they end up only barking with no real bite.
Since june no progress has been made. No mobilization had been carried when it was obvious that objectives were not met. It's been known that mobilization process in Russia is inefficient and slow, because reserves do not have readily prepared structures as opposed for example in Finland where you get the information what is your location in war time immediately after your military service is proceeded. The mobilization is not enough to turn the tide, if only 300k has been mobilised and there is no willinges to sacrifice soldiers.

I don't say that war is lost, but it is made unneccessary difficult if you compare situation, that you would have been mobilised one million soldiers before you attack. Propably no attack wouldn't be needed at all.
As Robert deNiro in Untouchables as AlCapone said;" a man can get much further with nice talk and gun rather than just nice talk!"

pavi wrote:Once said;"You can say, where and when war begins. However, you can't say where and when it ends." Russia is in point now that the soup must be finished, no matter how sour it is.
Ukraine is not giving up and does not seek any sort of deal. Why should they? They have bleed a lot, and if ruskies is pushed a bit, they end up only barking with no real bite.
Since june no progress has been made. No mobilization had been carried when it was obvious that objectives were not met. It's been known that mobilization process in Russia is inefficient and slow, because reserves do not have readily prepared structures as opposed for example in Finland where you get the information what is your location in war time immediately after your military service is proceeded. The mobilization is not enough to turn the tide, if only 300k has been mobilised and there is no willinges to sacrifice soldiers.

I don't say that war is lost, but it is made unneccessary difficult if you compare situation, that you would have been mobilised one million soldiers before you attack. Propably no attack wouldn't be needed at all.
As Robert deNiro in Untouchables as AlCapone said;" a man can get much further with nice talk and gun rather than just nice talk!"

You're rather ignoring the fact that the war is not particularly popular in Russia. Many people are not convinced of the reasons for starting the operation, and the government would be wary of domestic opinion and would look for ways to manipulate it. Mobilizing 1 million men right off the bat would be balked at. Moreover it will also impact the economy significantly. The war and stated reasons for it are tolerated, but only in as far that it doesn't affect people's day to day lives much - and for now it really doesn't.

Likely Russia will go for a series of smaller mobilization waves many months apart. Maybe once the 300,000 have served half a year and its time to release them, another batch of 300,000 or so will be mobilized.

These are the constraints Russia is operating under. Yes Russia can move to war economy and wartime laws but that will impact the economy and provoke latent skepticism in society more than it's willing to risk for the moment.

Those numbers however are plenty enough to defeat Ukraine simply due to the force multipliers. Air superiority, artillery/tanks/other equipment, cruise missile dominance, a functioning logistical and transportation network, an economically secure home-front, etc..

And how those Finns manage it is beyond me. Telling someone where they'll serve in wartime right after they finish conscript service. They must have collated and calculated all possible war scenarios ahead of time and determined the means, strategy and outcome with certainty
Nevertheless the Finnish system is untested, while the Russian system has been tested. And the Russian one has been found lacking, but it still mobilized those men pretty quickly all things told, and now the problems are being corrected too.

Arrow wrote:

The Russians have NEVER declared publicly and shown that they want to occupy/liberate Nikolaev and Odessa, but that was the "plan" of the forum members.

Yes that's right. However, it would be logical to cut off Ukraine from the sea and make an overland corridor all the way to the Transnistria.

NEVER BUT NEVER have the Russians given any indication that they will move in the direction of Nikolaev and Odessa, but some have been writing about it for months. The Turks have the "key" to the entrance to the Black Sea, and if you want that "closed" sea to gain complete freedom, then Russia must conquer Istanbul.
People, understand for once that Odessa is not important as well as that in that city over 70% of the population declare themselves as Ukroshitstans. I would not like such a demographic population to enter Russia.. This is the wish of the members of this forum who have been writing about it for months. Russia's goal is to destroy the economy and army of Ukroshitstan, infrastructure, depopulation of the country and build complexes of lower value for Ukroshitstans.
The Russians have NEVER mentioned anything more than the DNR and the LNR because the Russians are aware that Ukroshitstans are not their brothers but are shit and that they don't need shit in the composition of the Russian state.
The only goal of the Russians is that NATO does not enter the area of ​​central, southern and eastern Ukroshitstan and that goal will be achieved.

flamming_python wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Changing allegiances in the self-afflicted panic are we archy?

Don't forget to change your avatar to the blue & yellow

This whole charade has been a debaucle of epic proportions

I smoked the cope early on, but I'm good off cope - reality is a better stimulant anyway

Na, it's just a case of you being an easily bored passenger.
Go play Pokemon Go or something

Rest of us are in here for the long-haul, Russia is too and I'm sure Surovikin knows what he's doing. He's been given right of way to persecute the war as he sees fit in the same way General Grant was in the US Civil War, so leave the man to it and quit dooming.

I agree that Surovkin made right decision when whitdrawn from Kherson. What I disagree is that turning the tide of the war requires much firmer actions what we have seen in last 4 months. Pussyfooting must end or Ukraine raise the flag in Sevastopol.They donät negotiate, they don't surrender. They will fight, because uncle schmuel (+europe) will give that chance. Western border of the Ukraine must be occupied and that requires around 500k to million soldier. You can't ignore threat from the west if you are doing it.

The Russians have NEVER mentioned anything more than the DNR and the LNR wrote:

Regarding Odessa, you are right. However, I cannot agree with Russia's declarations that it will take over the territory of the LDRN only. Russia has declared its entry into the LDRN Zaporizhia, and the Kherson region to Federation. This is much more than LDRN.

Am I really seeing people say "Russia never said it it would take this" but these same people said Russia will and has to take places like Odessa, dam funny how fast their mind changes when they are trying to protect a shit storm lol