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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20

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    pavi


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    Post  pavi Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:04 am



    Problem is Russia is not bombing them enough. I also wish that Russia will open a second front in the Finnish occupied part of the Fennoskandiya peninsula. attack

    Finns, swedes or norge are not occupying anything. We have been living there since ice age ended. Same people get in Finland first, then finnish-ugry-speaking population and last came swedes as a viking. They occupied our land 1000 years BEFORE russians conquered the land 1809 and ruled it only century. Those kind of talking is pretty much teenager chitchat without any knowledge about demographic development of those countries.

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:11 am

    Backman wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Just been calculating. This is pretty crazy.

    To put into context how important various oblasts are to Ukraine GDP.
    (Figures taken in 2019)

    Ukrainian GDP €125.9 billion.


    6 Donetsk Oblast €6.5 billion
    7.

    So the list of numbers is post 2014 GDP ? I am trying to find Ukraine's pre 2014, GDP in PPP terms. Which would include Crimea. Taking 80% of that number would indicate how much GDP Russia has gained from Ukraine since 2014.

    Russia's GDP/PPP will be ahead of Germany by the time its said and done. Germany has to be taught a lesson. This is what following the US into wars gets you.

    Azovstal and the other plants in Mariupol must have been a big contributor to that figure. Take them out and the other industrial sites now beyond repair and Donetsk becomes much less significant.

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    Post  Erk Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:34 am

    JohninMK wrote:

    Azovstal and the other plants in Mariupol must have been a big contributor to that figure. Take them out and the other industrial sites now beyond repair and Donetsk becomes much less significant.

    Productivity improves greatly when you are not being shelled every day, or used as human shields.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:02 pm

    At least this increases chances of Moscow hosting gay pride parade soon, they owe at least that much to their heroes, they changed their lifestyle thanks to Russian Military pussyfooting so it's least they could do for them

    You mean like Serbias pussy footing that led to the new Albanian state in Europe called Kosovo... that was all Serbias fault for doing things wrong... poor innocent HATO and the US and Germany were forced to kill Serbs until those poor innocent KLA were free from evil Serbian oppression... and so they look like the bad guys until you take a closer look and realise every single Serbian was to blame for that... the KLA were totally innocent and all their terrorism and acts of inhumanity were justified by Serbian actions...   Rolling Eyes

    Blame Putin and the Russian military all you want... nothing they did justified what those Nazis in Kiev and their henchmen did... for the last 8 years or the last few months... and they are now getting theirs.

    (Edit and obviously the Serbs did make some mistakes but the situation regarding Kosovo was all about the west in general and the US in particular... the US runs the gang so nothing happens without their approval...)

    Just because some ideologically motivated fools didn't realise what was happening till it was displayed in full colour video... well I would think trapping people in a building and burning the building down and shooting anyone trying to escape for the crime of speaking Russian said all that was needed to be said...

    Yes it was in range which was perfect opportunity to exterminate everything on the coastline which would try to get into position to shoot

    Wow... what a military genius you are... you are suggesting putting artillery on that tiny island to shoot at Ukrainian artillery on the coast... you do understand what makes mobile artillery effective is that first word... mobile... being able to fire and then move away from the area you fired from is how the game is played... doing it from a tiny island would be dumb as ****.... there would be dozens of places along the coastline the Orcs could roll up with a rocket launcher or gun and fire a few rockets or shells and then move and fire again... from a tiny island there would be no place to move to... in fact the first few volleys they could shell your location and then the rest of their volleys could just target the rest of the island... it is that small.

    But instead they turn tails and ran, I'm sure families of soldiers who died for nothing there are appreciating this

    You miserable bastard. You want more families to lose their sons because of your pride.... the island is worthless now they stopped trying to land on it, because they are not killing Orcs spec ops troops any more... they are just receiving shells.

    You want to send a message to the orcs send them your blood.

    Killing maximum possible amount of enemies is always a good thing, it's how you win wars

    No not at all.... otherwise the Japs won WWII and the Germans did too, but in this case it is the human population of the Ukraine that is the problem... they have been indoctrinated to hate Russia and Russians.... the quickest cure is to eliminate the most rabid and most far gone, and those that remain might learn the right lesson... if they don't let them run to Europe like the dregs of all their other failed experiments.

    A bit off topic but wasn't sure where to post seems Latvia is now going to tear down all Soviet monuments.

    That is OK... Russia should build more monuments, and perhaps build a monument theme park showing the monuments in different cities of Europe including which were torn down and which political leaders were in power when they were torn down... a tangible record of ignorance and hate from the west towards Russia and Ironically the Soviet Union.

    The Baltic states elder citizens have a lot of anger against Russia because of the WW2 occupation of their countries to gain strategic access to their Baltic sea ports, which don't freeze as easily due to the high salt content of the waters, however, many people in the Baltic states married Russians, so it must be very frustrating to see this recent manufactured hate.

    Yeah, because the west will treat them so much better... listening stations for HATO and rendition sites to keep kidnapped enemies of the US without charge and torture them.

    Except 3 of the 5 were fucking Ukrainians from Kharkov

    Bandera is an asshole

    Their mentality is that you run to Russia then you are Russian.

    Just means that Ukraine will lose more in the end anyway.

    They said at the start this is the deal... the more shit you pull and the longer your draw it out the worse the deal gets for you... I am pretty sure we are well past the stage where Zelensky gets to live.

    demonstrates how just close HIMARS can come to the front

    It is essentially a truck and they likely don't drive around with a big crosshair on it saying we are carrying rockets... they will have taken steps to camouflage it with a tarp or something...

    they run out of kalibr missiles to kalibrate HIMARS or no?

    Calibre is a land attack cruise missile... HIMARS is a truck mounted rocket launcher like Uragan or Smerch.

    At some stage they will be parked and then they will get a visit from Kalibr, Iskander or that new shiny missile with TV and UAV datalink that visited few warehouses recently (Yes, I will mention UAVs all the time)

    A couple of MALEs with Kornets on board operating at 8-10km altitude would be very useful for picking off targets of opportunity... obviously being in the right place at the right time would be unlikely but a rocket launch is not easy to hide and would draw the camera and therefore generate coordinates you could send attack helicopters to pretty quickly... the MALE could find the targets when they launch and then continue to track them until they can get a helicopter within 6km of them and take them out with ATGMs.

    Towed guns are better engaged with rockets because the crew will be half a dozen men out in the open and probably a truck too, but a rocket launcher should be hit with an ATGM to destroy the vehicle and any vehicle with reload rockets nearby.

    Those kind of talking is pretty much teenager chitchat without any knowledge about demographic development of those countries.

    Russia has no problems with current boundaries in that area and are not looking to expand the Russian Federation.

    Small parts of Ukraine that have been abused by Kiev and had no help or respect from the west or the rest of the world for that matter now seem to want to join the Russian Federation as protection from the west which seems dead set on declaring them Russia and killing them.

    Under such circumstances I can understand them wanting to join the RF simply to prevent a repeat of recent history.

    Their suffering was totally ignored by the west who encouraged and armed and trained Kiev to continue baiting the Bear.

    Productivity improves greatly when you are not being shelled every day, or used as human shields.

    And when your border to your main customer reopens things can change for the better too.


    Last edited by GarryB on Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  franco Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:12 pm

    Erk wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:Just been calculating. This is pretty crazy.

    To put into context how important various oblasts are to Ukraine GDP.
    (Figures taken in 2019)

    Ukrainian GDP €125.9 billion.

    1 Kiev city €30.0 billion
    2 Dnipropetrovsk Oblast €12.4 billion
    3 Kharkiv Oblast €7.8 billion
    4 Kyiv Oblast €6.9 billion
    5 Lviv Oblast billion €6.8 billion
    6 Donetsk Oblast €6.5 billion
    7 Odessa Oblast €6.2 billion
    8 Poltava Oblast billion €5.9 billion
    9 Zaporizhzhia Oblast €4.9 billion
    10 Vinnytsia Oblast €4.1 billion
    11 Cherkasy Oblast €3.3 billion
    12 Mykolaiv Oblast €2.9 billion
    13 Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast €2.7 billion
    14 Zhytomyr Oblast €2.7 billion
    15 Khmelnytskyi Oblast €2.6 billion
    16 Chernihiv Oblast €2.5 billion
    17 Sumy Oblast €2.4 billion
    18 Volyn Oblast €2.4 billion
    19 Kirovohrad Oblast €2.3 billion
    20 Rivne Oblast €2.1 billion
    21 Kherson Oblast €2.0 billion
    22 Zakarpattia Oblast €1.9 billion
    23 Ternopil Oblast €1.8 billion
    24 Chernivtsi Oblast €1.3 billion
    25 Luhansk Oblast €1.3 billion

    ...
    The point I would like to make is GDP is not a measure of Productivity as the name implies, it should be called GDS (Gross Domestic Spending) as it only considers the movement of money, not goods and services. As with most countries, some areas of Ukraine are far more productive than others, where as they might have much lower spending.

    Suspect the Donetsk and Luhansk regions GDP would only include those areas under Ukrainian control. Believe prior to 2014 Donetsk was the highest.

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    Post  Vann7 Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:04 pm



    Ukrainian forces launch attacks using U.S. HIMARS against Russia



    why this attacks not posted ?
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    Post  Mir Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:25 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Ukrainian forces launch attacks using U.S. HIMARS against Russia

    why this attacks not posted ?

    Already posted in Post number 80 in this thread.

    Quite funny thing for me is that during the covid scam you detested and questioned everything the West had to offer, but with this conflict you seem to back the western propaganda (like The Sun!) without any questions at all!? Laughing

    You keep on pushing Russian tactics as outdated and slow - but hey just look at the wonderful tactics the Ukers are employing against the Russians - by attacking and killing civilians with their western supplied wunderwaffe. Yeh rather post Uker propaganda than the rout that's currently going on in the Donbass.

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    Post  franco Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:45 pm

    The agony of the West by Thierry Meyssan

    Sergey Lavrov used to compare the West to a wounded predator. According to him, it should not be provoked because it would be taken by madness and could break everything. It is better to accompany it to the graveyard. The West does not see it that way. Washington and London are leading a crusade against Moscow and Beijing. They roar and are ready for anything. But what can they really do?

    Not sure correct place for this but here is the full article, good read: https://www.voltairenet.org/article217555.html

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    Post  kvs Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:55 pm

    franco wrote:

    Suspect the Donetsk and Luhansk regions GDP would only include those areas under Ukrainian control. Believe prior to 2014 Donetsk was the highest.

    It was popular in backward Banderite Ukria to hate on the Donbass in a pathological spasm of resentment. We had claims in the Ukr mass media that
    the Donbass was subsidized by the rest of Ukraine when the diametric opposite was true. Poor farmers are not the main source of tax revenue for
    any modern country.

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:18 pm

    kvs wrote:
    It was popular in backward Banderite Ukria to hate on the Donbass in a pathological spasm of resentment.   We had claims in the Ukr mass media that
    the Donbass was subsidized by the rest of Ukraine when the diametric opposite was true.    Poor farmers are not the main source of tax revenue for
    any modern country.  


    Well, there is nothing to be amazed by that. Remember that the whole serious business and industry there was owned by different oligarch clans. I can bet with rubles to peanuts, that if you look into tax statements, all the major enterprises there found be deficit ones Laughing Why pay taxes if you can bribe a tax office, yeah? So from that perspective, sure it would have been possible to prove how much the "good Ukraine" subsidized the "bad Russkie separs". And the very same oligarchs who falsed the tax burden cried like babies how many golden eggs they have lost from a basket when the same companies were confiscated and nationalized Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:04 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Backman wrote:...Russia said it started the war to end these shellings. And now Ukraine is getting longer range weapons and is going to use them to terror bomb along the border.

    Just bomb them back and triple down on it, they are already accused of that bullshit so might as well get some use out of it

    What's the problem?

    I agree. But they should start bombing government buildings. Make an example of one. Kalibrate the mayors office of Dnepropetrovsk. Then move onto another one if it continues. Keep going until the shelling stops or all the ppl of this regime are dead.

    Roscosmos took pictures of the Pentagon, and whitehouse with the caption "decision making centers". Making these kinds of threats doesn't register with the US. If they did, this war wouldn't be happening in the first place. Bombing the govt buildings in Kiev is better than threatening to bomb the Pentagon.

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    Post  Hole Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:29 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 5 Fw5b0z10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 5 Scree387Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 5 417810

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    Post  Ispan Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:25 pm

    Somebody in the Spanish burbuja.info forum posted a very good russian blog article that explains a lot of recurring questions

    Never one to miss the chance of taking advantage of somebody's else work I have revised the translation, edited it, and posted it on my blog,it should translate it even better from my Spanish text to English, but there's a link to the original blog for those that prefer to read the original in Russian or prefer the unedited automated translation, to english it always translates better

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/07/05/preguntas-recurrentes-y-respuestas-no-tan-obvias-sobre-la-guerra/

    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5ef8896c0d13dd78e21972de/voprosy-i-otvety-specoperacii-vse-tolko-nachinaetsia-62c0df32f616550f23fcafba?&


    Last edited by Ispan on Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:25 pm

    Backman wrote:

    I agree. But they should start bombing government buildings. Make an example of one. Kalibrate the mayors office of Dnepropetrovsk. Then move onto another one if it continues. Keep going until the shelling stops or all the ppl of this regime are dead.

    Roscosmos took pictures of the Pentagon, and whitehouse with the caption "decision making centers". Making these kinds of threats doesn't register with the US. If they did, this war wouldn't be happening in the first place. Bombing the govt buildings in Kiev is better than threatening to bomb the Pentagon.

    The GRU has sent enough messages

    Those Kalibr strikes are given once GRU clears the presence of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine

    I am not sure if they call the Pentagon to verify presence of NATO, but those guys are disavowed by Pentagon anyway and end up on a cargo 200 list that is not reported to the American public

    All the Russian agencies are making their presence known

    Roskomnadzor and the NSA are at it as well, anonymous and killnet fight the good fight

    While SVR has something planned for CIA as well

    Then the FBI and FSB have their hands full at home

    But with the RkN and NSA, both sides are watching their populations with scrutiny


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Backman Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:26 pm

    Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed the headquarters of the "Caucasian Legion"

    Russian combat helicopters destroyed the headquarters of the militants of the "Caucasian Legion" fighting on the side of the Kyiv regime. This was reported on social networks by Georgian mercenaries.

    The "Caucasian Legion" was formed relatively recently. It includes fighters from the Caucasus, mostly Georgian citizens.

    https://t.me/intelslava/32579

    This is what the US does. It finds these groups of terrorist/paramilitaries. Gives them funding , makes a slick looking logo for them , along with a good uniform. And it all looks very attractive to young men who have nothing going for them and want to be part of something.

    The Kraken and the Caucases Legion are just the most recent example.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:30 pm

    Backman wrote:Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed the headquarters of the "Caucasian Legion"

    Russian combat helicopters destroyed the headquarters of the militants of the "Caucasian Legion" fighting on the side of the Kyiv regime.  This was reported on social networks by Georgian mercenaries.

    The "Caucasian Legion" was formed relatively recently.  It includes fighters from the Caucasus, mostly Georgian citizens.

    https://t.me/intelslava/32579

    This is what the US does. It finds these groups of terrorist/paramilitaries. Gives them funding , makes a slick looking logo for them , along with a good uniform. And it all looks very attractive to young men who have nothing going for them and want to be part of something.

    The Kraken and the Caucases Legion are just the most recent example.

    And you think Incel shootings are random too? Yesterday July 4th, Pindo celebrations turned ugly

    Maybe they are random, maybe Maria butina really does love guns lmao

    SVR giving them a run for their money
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    Post  Arrow Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:02 pm

    Su 34 launch X 29 missile.
    https://t.me/anna_news/35867

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:32 pm

    https://militarymaps.info/pay

    Here is a link to the military maps provided by Russian sources

    Clear the pay wall, have fun

    https://m.vk.com/topic-70903182_35680363

    That's the VK account with instructions for download
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    Post  Arrow Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:23 pm

    Onyx launch.
    https://m.vk.com/video-206639135_456255244

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    Post  Regular Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:24 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    Azovstal and the other plants in Mariupol must have been a big contributor to that figure. Take them out and the other industrial sites now beyond repair and Donetsk becomes much less significant.

    No more Azovstal. It will be dismantled and turned into park.

    Mariupol suffered from it's pollution for far too long. Locals hated that place, both smell and water damage. I spoke with some of the locals online and they said they only worry about workplaces after the war. It's understandable, I hope it won't turn into Detroit.
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    Post  Regular Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:32 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Already posted in Post number 80 in this thread.

    Quite funny thing for me is that during the covid scam you detested and questioned everything the West had to offer, but with this conflict you seem to back the western propaganda (like The Sun!) without any questions at all!? Laughing

    You keep on pushing Russian tactics as outdated and slow - but hey just look at the wonderful tactics the Ukers are employing against the Russians - by attacking and killing civilians with their western supplied wunderwaffe. Yeh rather post Uker propaganda than the rout that's currently going on in the Donbass.

    What ever Russian tactics are in this war, we see that Ukrainians can't even organise proper retreat without getting their forces under fire.

    Filming their HIMARS being used on roads is not smart move. If they value those systems, they should keep them at utmost secrecy. Reminds me of Syrian TOW videos. Probably same purpose too. As I've said before, at some stage these launchers will be parked and they will be destroyed. Not that we will know about it like most of the warehouse hits. **** knows what is there.
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    Post  Vann7 Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:40 pm

    [quote="Mir"]
    Vann7 wrote:

    Ukrainian forces launch attacks using U.S. HIMARS against Russia

    why this attacks not posted ?


    Quite funny thing for me is that during the covid scam you detested and questioned everything the West had to offer, but with this conflict you seem to back the western propaganda (like The Sun!) without any questions at all!? Laughing

    IS common knowledge even by RUssian military that the west provided HIMARS to ukraine,
    so what's the "propaganda" here?  They are using them against Russian military , so where is the propaganda?



    You keep on pushing Russian tactics as outdated and slow -

    Because they are outdated and slow.. that's why..  Ukraine can fire artillery non stop at dombass
    for the simple reason ,that Russia don't have air superiority of ukraine airspace ,  don't have drones 24 hours a day monitoring ukraine airspace over key cities. And so this allow Ukraine to fire with impunity not only their artillery in Donbass, but also NATO artillery too.. so where is the propaganda?
    Not everything that SUN publish is fake.. this is a small fact for you. They were correct in the sinking
    of mosca Russian cruiser.. and it was right..    


    but hey just look at the wonderful tactics the Ukers are employing against the Russians - by attacking and killing civilians with their western supplied wunderwaffe. Yeh rather post Uker propaganda than the rout that's currently going on in the Donbass.


    I never said it was right to bomb civilians did i?

    What i have saying is that Ukraine can do what it does , because of the colossal failure of the Russian airforce in properly destroying Ukraine artillery and air defenses on time. and this mediocre performance of Russian airforce happens , because They not using drones as the correct way ,in correct numbers either ,not using their airforce in an efficient way.. This is why Ukraine can send 2 hellicopters flying low , bomb deep inside russia and return like nothing.. Because Russia is not properly using their airforce to monitor ukraine airspace ,neither their own borders airspace ,which is ever more embarrasing how so easily Ukraine cold bomb russian cities , with hellicopters and so called "useless turkish drones"..

    -not proper close air support
    -not proper surveilance of Ukraine or russsian airspace.
    -not using AWACS or intel planes monitoring Ukraine artillery positions , something that could help
    to guide the airforce to their positions , don't you think?
    -heavy use of unguided rockets , for targets ,that should be very fast and quick ,without bullshit delays.

     

    So if you want to have a clear picture of the performance of Russian army and Ukraine , both,
    you need to post the videos ,more credible of both sides for discussion.. So unless you can  proof is fake news, and show me that is fake ,that ukraine don't have HIMARS and don't use them,then you have no valid argument at all , for  why not posting Ukraine well documented videos. That look genuine and not a video game. unless you have evidence they are not?  Not everything that SUN publish is fake. .and Not everything that Russia military claims is True..  remember how they claimed , "Accidental detonation of munition" when Ukraine sink their most important warship in the black sea?  lol1

    You really think Ukraine could fire artillery if they had strike drones near their positions? and could in little time reach their positions?  They can strike Donbassa and russian cities ,because of the mediocre surveilance of Russia airforce over Ukraine airspace.  

    Propaganda happens in both sides  dude... get over it..  More on the ukranian side than Russian side ,because they losing a lot more ,and losing territory , but still both side post propaganda.. Like those Su-25s firing unguided rockets somewhere , far away , without actually knowing if the rockets hits anything or not.  No

    Russia is winning but only because of Brute force power use , scorching entire cities with artillery.
    not fighting in a very professional way at all. and if they have problems with Ukraine , imagine how much worse it will be , if Russia was fighting NATO with their superior airforce ,striking Russia positions and very strong surveilance of russian positions .

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    ucmvulcan


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 5 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20

    Post  ucmvulcan Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:11 pm

    Regular wrote:
    JohninMK wrote:
    Azovstal and the other plants in Mariupol must have been a big contributor to that figure. Take them out and the other industrial sites now beyond repair and Donetsk becomes much less significant.

    No more Azovstal. It will be dismantled and turned into park.

    Mariupol suffered from it's pollution for far too long. Locals hated that place, both smell and water damage. I spoke with some of the locals online and they said they only worry about workplaces after the war. It's understandable, I hope it won't turn into Detroit.

    A Democrat isn't in power in Marioupol so it won't turn into Cleveland or Detroit.

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    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 5 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20

    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:13 pm

    Brute force ? Except Russia fights numerically superior opponent

    The Russian airforce has performed actually the best in SEAD missions recently

    Consider that VKS has lost less than 10 aircraft against the best defended IADS in the world second to Russia

    If you want to use VSU hitting a gas depot , or hitting a house with Ukrainian refugees in it

    What does that say for USAF that allowed 4 airliners to kill 3000 Americans?

    pwnd pwnd pwnd

    If only USAF had properly used drones maybe it would have stopped them No

    Hahahaha


    Last edited by Arkanghelsk on Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Singular_Transform
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20 - Page 5 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #20

    Post  Singular_Transform Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:14 pm

    Vann7 wrote:

    Because they are outdated and slow.. that's why..  Ukraine can fire artillery non stop at dombass
    for the simple reason ,that Russia don't have air superiority of ukraine airspace ,  don't have drones 24 hours a day monitoring ukraine airspace over key cities. And so this allow Ukraine to fire with impunity not only their artillery in Donbass, but also NATO artillery too.. so where is the propaganda?
    Not everything that SUN publish is fake.. this is a small fact for you. They were correct in the sinking
    of mosca Russian cruiser.. and it was right..    


    Interesting ,are you aware of the fact Ukraine had one of the world top air defence system, and still in the top pack?

    Ukraine had better air defence systems than the USA, and still on par with the USA in terms of SAM systems.

    A simple TOR could hunt down all complicated 24/7 global hawk" style drone.

    Ukraine is not Afganistan, lacking anything more complicated than a machine gun.

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