Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+58
Ned86
PhSt
Scorpius
The-thing-next-door
LMFS
SolidarityWithRussia
Stealthflanker
Karl Haushofer
marcellogo
calripson
Airbornewolf
franco
ArgentinaGuard
Odin of Ossetia
dionis
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
par far
lancelot
Firebird
mr_hd
Rasisuki Nebia
Big_Gazza
ucmvulcan
DerWolf
Rodion_Romanovic
TMA1
Lapain
RTN
Krepost
kvs
Backman
Belisarius
lyle6
teh_beard
d_taddei2
sepheronx
thegopnik
Isos
Pacense
Tolstoy
ALAMO
nomadski
Pincus Shain
Walther von Oldenburg
Regular
Arrow
Sujoy
Kiko
Hole
VARGR198
JohninMK
pavi
zorobabel
Mir
SeigSoloyvov
PapaDragon
mnztr
GarryB
62 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3831
    Points : 3837
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:53 am

    zorobabel wrote:The Belgorod attack is a good reminder why the "we don't need to capture territory" argument is brain dead stupid.

    Territory must be captured and a large buffer zone must be created to protect civilians.

    The majority of Russian forces continue to sit in an "active defense"

    2/3 of available Russian units have not yet been committed to battle, and sit in the so called "2nd echelon"

    The first echelon constitutes the majority of infantry, and light armor for quick movement

    There are many defensive emplacements and blocking positions, not just the dragons teeth and trenches in the south, but across the entire contact line

    The entire Ukro army was lured into the first echelon forces, and was obliterated as we know

    In the donbass, the force which mauled Marinka and Avdeevka, are still primarily first echelon, with introduction of storm z, and some reservists, but the vast majority of the breakthrough fist continues to sit in reserve

    The missile barrages of the VKS will target not only energy infrastructure, but as we see in Kharkov and Odessa, it is the preparation of the battlefield before introduction of the 2nd echelon into battle

    Once Avdeevka falls, this fist will move unopposed on the right flank of defending Ukrainian forces

    That is what Gerasimov has orchestrated, and Zaluzhny tacitly admitted, that once this force is committed, he will either lose his army, or be forced to cede the territory to Russia

    GarryB, PapaDragon, JohninMK and littlerabbit like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39641
    Points : 40137
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:54 am

    They claim Kinzhals intercepted almost every time when used, sooo ...

    I agree they are saying they can't shoot down Russian missiles in an effort to get more and better air defence missiles, but I would think the ability to shoot down Kinzhals and Kh-22Ms... the latter of which are ancient would be repeated over and over all the time to discredit the Russians who claim they are hitting their targets.

    If they could intercept Kinzhals then why bother claiming they can't intercept Kh-22Ms?

    Would be like claiming they can shoot down Su-57s but are having problems shooting down Su-35s or Su-27s.

    KlitschKO bragged about shot down Kinzhals. Remember the famous pics with him holding the "debris"?

    He did, and he showed an old tea pot to prove it...

    This was just a warning, whatever Russia can do Ukraine can do too. It is fair thing.

    It is not a response in kind... destroying military targets is not the same as hitting civilian targets because military targets are too well protected for your weapons to get through.

    Ps. Russian naming Ukrainians as terrorists is beyond pathetic, heavy psychiatric treatment is needed.

    Actually Americans call all their enemies terrorists don't they? The west has been claiming this entire conflict is a terrorist aggression from Putin himself.

    Heavy calibre bullets are cheap - can fire 1000s of rounds without being bankrupt

    Yeah, but they generally fired in the hundreds of thousands of rounds and often didn't hit anything at all... and often did more damage on the ground than the thing they were shooting at.

    USA claims they cannot spare 155mm for Urkaine, but some how can send 57K rounds to Israel.

    Who is the favourite child... Wink

    See the difference in structure, cast quality, and ... everything?

    The problem is that Ukraine is down to retarded baby dragons... with baby teeth.

    Not that impressive if you target military hardware parked on military bases. There is no civilian near a mig-29 or tank repair site.

    It is perfectly normal... IF you are only targeting military hardware and you care if there are civilian targets nearby to choose the time of your attack to minimise civilian casualties.

    When the west does it all civilian deaths are claimed to be either not civilian or that it is the fault of the enemy leadership for not capitulating immediately and doing what the west demands straight away.

    The Belgorod attack is a good reminder why the "we don't need to capture territory" argument is brain dead stupid.

    Up until now holding territory was rather pointless, the idea is to kill the enemy so if you have to retreat a little to get the enemy to charge forward and expose themselves to artillery and air power then you retreated, but when he retreated you follow him and continue to hammer him.

    Now that he is running out of bodies starting to advance in lots of different areas puts him under pressure and spreads his available manpower and fire power over a much larger area, and of course continuing to hit ammo and weapon caches and supply lines and military targets in his rear like training camps and merc bases makes sense too.

    But the meat grinder wont work forever and when he is near exhaustion then attacking on multiple fronts... so many he wont be able to respond to all of them will result in advances that he can't cope with.

    Imagine you are alone in a trench and one man walks towards your position... easy to deal with. Now think of a dozen men advancing... remember they have rifles and rocket launchers and other equipment so if you shoot one the other 11 will know where you are and start shooting at you while advancing... you wont have time to get them all before they reach your line and they will overwhelm you... you either get captured or you retreat. Remember they are wearing body armour so a burst of three rounds to the chest might not do anything at all...

    Of course it is much more complicated than that... there might be covered areas he can use to get very close before you see him, or he might use armour.

    He might have an American special forces sniper 1.5km away and so he splits his 12 men into 4 waves of 3 men... the first three can be the accountants and special needs guys you got yesterday... While you are dropping them a guy a long way away and his spotter are fixing your position and taking you out.

    Obviously when the Russians attack they can use FPV drones and artillery and air support and armour etc etc and their own snipers...

    Territory must be captured and a large buffer zone must be created to protect civilians.

    The Orcs are shifting to some sort of defensive tactic which means capturing territory beyond those areas that want to join the RF will become necessary.

    So far they have Storm Shadow so Orc lines will have to be 300km from RF territory... a good rule of thumb to work out how far back they have to be pushed.

    kvs, JohninMK, littlerabbit, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39641
    Points : 40137
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:56 am

    he will either lose his army, or be forced to cede the territory to Russia

    Is it selfish to prefer both?

    littlerabbit and Hole like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 2843
    Points : 2881
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  mnztr Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:03 am

    zorobabel wrote:The Belgorod attack is a good reminder why the "we don't need to capture territory" argument is brain dead stupid.

    Territory must be captured and a large buffer zone must be created to protect civilians.

    Well that is a nice thought, but the territory you would have to capture is Kharkov. That is a big city and that would be very costly to take by force.

    mnrck dislikes this post

    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13371
    Points : 13413
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  PapaDragon Sun Dec 31, 2023 6:57 am

    mnztr wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:....
    Well that is a nice thought, but the territory you would have to capture is Kharkov. That is a big city and that would be very costly to take by force.

    1) Surround the city (actually surround it)

    2) Cut off electricity and water (actually cut it off)

    3) Wait (actually wait and not waste time on humanitarian whining)

    There, job done





    sepheronx, GarryB, Big_Gazza, JohninMK, littlerabbit, The-thing-next-door, owais.usmani and Mir like this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3752
    Points : 3732
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:55 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:The Ukrainians are reacting to only the beginning of the winter missile campaign

    Russia will level much of Kharkov and commit the 2 army corps stationed at Belgorod

    At the same time 3 other army corps will be committed in the direction of Pavlograd

    Those armies will start moving only once the VKS missile forces have leveled most of the infrastructure in front of them

    So it will be big booms the rest of the winter, and them a rapid offensive around february/March

    This coincides with the date Avdeevka falls, and the Ukrainian defense lines from Ocheretino to Kurakhovo to be pushed back severely , then collapsing the northern defenses from Ocheretino to Slavyansk

    The Ukrainians will continue to lash out with meaningless attacks and attempt to distract from the fact the entire donbass defensive line is going to be pushed outside of the administrative borders of Donetsk


    So you keep saying this, what is your information for it? Did the russians say this?
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3497
    Points : 3499
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Mir Sun Dec 31, 2023 8:05 am

    4) Put Boney M on repeat and it will all be over in a week.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, PapaDragon, SeigSoloyvov and littlerabbit like this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3752
    Points : 3732
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 31, 2023 8:15 am

    Mir wrote:4) Put Boney M on repeat and it will all be over in a week.

    Bravo
    zorobabel
    zorobabel


    Posts : 706
    Points : 704
    Join date : 2015-09-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  zorobabel Sun Dec 31, 2023 8:47 am

    I never said anyone here said the goal wasn't to capture territory. I don't think anyone here is that stupid. However, it is an oft-repeated statement on Twitter.

    A 1,000 km buffer isn't necessary to prevent 90% of attacks on civilians. They have killed 4,000 civilians in Donetsk through artillery and MLRS attacks. A 200km buffer inside Ukraine the entire length of the Russian border is sufficient, though the Dnipro is a more natural boundary.
    avatar
    pavi


    Posts : 53
    Points : 55
    Join date : 2022-02-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  pavi Sun Dec 31, 2023 12:50 pm

    "
    1) Surround the city (actually surround it)

    2) Cut off electricity and water (actually cut it off)

    3) Wait (actually wait and not waste time on humanitarian whining)

    There, job done"
    Sometimes one must be ready to wait. Leningrad was surrounded 900 days and did not fall. Only viable supply route was through the ice of lake Lagoda at winter time. It is not that simple, Papa.




    GarryB and littlerabbit like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15110
    Points : 15251
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  JohninMK Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:09 pm

    Sting in the tail video




    Ts crossed and i dotted gun fodder report, only one in 10 to survive, one day at the front.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, VARGR198, zardof, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3752
    Points : 3732
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:12 pm

    pavi wrote:"
    1) Surround the city (actually surround it)

    2) Cut off electricity and water (actually cut it off)

    3) Wait (actually wait and not waste time on humanitarian whining)

    There, job done"
    Sometimes one must be ready to wait. Leningrad was surrounded 900 days and did not fall. Only viable supply route was through the ice of lake Lagoda at winter time. It is not that simple, Papa.





    if the germans had been able to cut off that one supply route the city would have fallen, it was because they failed to it never did

    JohninMK likes this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15110
    Points : 15251
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  JohninMK Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:17 pm

    Death toll now 24.

    Zlatti71
    @djuric_zlatko
    .
    2h
    ⚡A strike on the former Kharkov Palace complex killed representatives of the Main Intelligence Directorate and the Armed Forces of Ukraine who took part in the planning and execution of the terrorist attack in Belgorod, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported.

    There were also up to 200 mercenaries there, who were planned to be involved in terrorist raids on the territory bordering Ukraine. - FRWL reports

    Deputy of the State Duma of Russia Sergei Markov:

    Britain dealt a blow to Belgorod. This was officially stated by the Russian Foreign Ministry.
    In response, Russia has now struck a hotel in Kharkov, where British officers, who were preparing an attack on Belgorod, live. Let me explain once again - Kharkov residents do not live in hotels in Kharkov. The foreigners there are military. That's the blow to them. Not for Kharkov residents. Kharkiv residents are future citizens of Russia.
    But everyone has a question: why weren’t they hitting this lair in Kharkov before? Were you waiting for them to hit Russian children?

    https://t.me/vicktop55/1977


    Last edited by JohninMK on Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, franco, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, zardof and LMFS like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15110
    Points : 15251
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  JohninMK Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:19 pm

    ayden
    @squatsons
    .
    10h
    Kharkov wasn’t a response for Belgorod and I’m sorry to let some of you down, who are hoping for retaliation, but there won’t be any.

    I think everyone should be honest with themselves, Russia has been embarrassingly slapped with the glove multiple times and hasn’t responded. All the Pro-Russian accounts pleading for it should attempt thinking through that corse of action.

    Russia is just exposing Ukraines leadership and less savory citizens for the monsters they are and it will give them the excuse to go as far as they want. Every time a Russian civilian is killed by Ukraine Putins approval and the approval rating of the SMO goes up. Don’t be a bloodthirsty monster when these events happen, you’re better than the people who react without considering consequences.

    Civilians don’t get a choice in these wars so try to keep the innocent out of the line of fire.

    My personal opinion on some of the conversations I’ve read today.

    GarryB, franco, zardof, littlerabbit and Belisarius like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15110
    Points : 15251
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  JohninMK Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:53 pm

    The now AFU 23rd 'Not' Mechanized Infantry Brigade Laughing

    GarryB, franco, Big_Gazza, kvs, VARGR198, zardof, littlerabbit and like this post

    VARGR198
    VARGR198


    Posts : 661
    Points : 667
    Join date : 2015-08-09

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  VARGR198 Sun Dec 31, 2023 3:21 pm

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, zardof, littlerabbit, mnztr, LMFS and Hole like this post

    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3831
    Points : 3837
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:09 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:

    So you keep saying this, what is your information for it? Did the russians say this?

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 A9112710

    The Russian information space had already put out reports about this month's ago

    Franco did an exhaustive list of active units along each zone, which ultimately amounts to 420,000 troops participating in and around the SMO

    At the same time, we know 400,000 volunteers were recruited in 2023

    Most of these troops will be used to create the new leningrad military district

    But some of those troops were kept near the SMO zone

    After the Kupyansk limited offensives, there were reports on Ukrainian TG, as well as Russian ones, that in Belgorod, citizens had reported large concentrations of troops and armored vehicles

    And that a strike group would go to Kharkov

    However, it is believed that these troops will not go to Kharkov, but rather move to Volchansk from Belogorod

    That way Kupyansk would be encircled via 2 axis, and Izyum and Balakleya would be captured before forming a wedge on the north of Slavyansk as it was in 2022/2023 before the Ukrainians launched the Kharkov operation

    Military intel presupposes that once Avdeevka falls, the entire right flank will fall out beneath the Ukrainians

    Making Kupyansk an ideal place to approach Slavyansk and opening up the path to Kharkov from multiple approaches

    It makes no sense to storm Kharkov as the outer ring road still provides a good defensive position, as long as Ukrainians hold Kupyansk

    littlerabbit likes this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3752
    Points : 3732
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:19 pm

    I was asking, whats your source the Russians plan to use these units to launch the assaults you speak off not their existence

    So you no concrete info they will and are speculating which is fine, but speculation and fact are separate
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10978
    Points : 10958
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Hole Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:23 pm

    barrier detachment shot a group of retreating
    Someone should tell them that a retreat is basic military procedure.

    why weren’t they hitting this lair in Kharkov before?
    Those mercs didn´t launch the missile towards Belgorod.
    The Russians waited propably for more mercs to arrive before hitting the hotel.

    and hasn’t responded.
    Because killing 600.000+ enemy fighters or preparing to return all russian cities
    in Banderaland under russian control isn´t a response.  Rolling Eyes

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, zardof, LMFS and Belisarius like this post

    Kiko
    Kiko


    Posts : 3157
    Points : 3211
    Join date : 2020-11-11
    Age : 75
    Location : Brasilia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Kiko Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:28 pm

    It was Budanov all over and once again. GUR was adviced and trained since it's beginning by the UK and US intelligence services, so that's why it's so hard for Bortnikov to infiltrate it. But it's just a question of time and hard work before success comes.
    Sujoy
    Sujoy


    Posts : 2323
    Points : 2481
    Join date : 2012-04-02
    Location : India || भारत

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Sujoy Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:44 pm

    Mir wrote:The "yellow window" in the twitter pic is situated near the OBC and from the pic below it looks just like an access panel.
    Western cruise missiles are not big enough to accomodate flares and chaffs.
    avatar
    Arrow


    Posts : 2968
    Points : 2960
    Join date : 2012-02-12

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Arrow Sun Dec 31, 2023 4:51 pm

    Western cruise missiles are not big enough to accomodate flares and chaffs wrote:

    What's up flay etc. Russian cruise missiles can accommodate a small nuclear reactor Very Happy Very Happy
    Arkanghelsk
    Arkanghelsk


    Posts : 3831
    Points : 3837
    Join date : 2021-12-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Arkanghelsk Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:07 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:I was asking, whats your source the Russians plan to use these units to launch the assaults you speak off not their existence

    So you no concrete info they will and are speculating which is fine, but speculation and fact are separate

    There are many from Vzglyad to Marat Khairulin, who has access to military intelligence which is peppered throughout his posts

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Gcocdr10

    This is the first map which detailed the breakthrough plans of several army corps


    Marat Khairulin is the journalist that is most trusted to break news on troops concentrations, active offensives, and areas of success

    He is not limited by bureaucracy like the MOD, and breaks the news very fast

    That's where most of English pro russian media gets their own information from - frontline journalists or Voenkors

    In addition, I would add, Marat has said the number one thing currently delaying assault groups is Ukrainian FPV drones which have stymied advanced in Avdeevka and in Kherson

    Russian troops have resorted to such dummy tactics to deceive operators , but it is not a panacea:

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 E12d7b10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 B2b19010

    So far it is the , not sexy, and boring detail which is actually responsible for negating advances of RU troops

    The FPV drone threat is underreported, but it is the number one source of casualties for troops

    Mines knock out armor, and then FPVs appear to take out infantry, reducing combat effectiveness of assault units greatly

    This is due to lack of standard EW at a small scale, as Volnorez jammers are still too few and far between, and Lesochek jammers are not too effective, as they are directional and do not blanket the EW spectrum to disable FPV across a wide front:

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 03de1910

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 49530210


    The MOD must focus on this area, as simply producing armor will not help change the situation, as the loss rate will remain the same

    Sure, Russia by sheer overwhelming superiority can win, but will take many more casualties doing so in this way

    It's better to smooth out the production and introduction of EW jammers at squad level, to enable more successful assault actions without the current attrition levels

    Although I imagine by the time large scale assault operation commence, it is these developments which will be ready at least in some number

    Russia has done good to innovate and adapt to technology where it is required

    I might also add: the S-8 laser guided rocket will be part of the new assault tactics

    As apparently the introduction of new drones for attacking actions with these rockets will make it so the advantage of KA52 can be replicated throughout the front, and not just in the most important zones of combat

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Aaea5810
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Eb088d10

    GarryB, ahmedfire, d_taddei2, zardof, littlerabbit and thegopnik like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15110
    Points : 15251
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  JohninMK Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:18 pm

    RuAF hitting power points now?

    GarryB, d_taddei2, zardof, littlerabbit and Hole like this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3752
    Points : 3732
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:35 pm

    Hm but that information doesn't mean they will commit a new front so it is still speculation.

    as for dealing with the drones that is indeed a problem they will need to address, High powered jammers across the front isn't possible.

    The russians are better off just sending out their shotgun drones to intercept enemy FPPV drones, use them like to "deny" airspace while your assault groups go in

    as for the Thermite, I know of it and will be interested to see how it performs. I do like the idea of it.

    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #52

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Jul 22, 2024 10:55 pm