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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12

    Krepost
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    Post  Krepost Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:02 am

    flamming_python wrote:Turkey can turn around tomorrow and let the NATO fleet in

    What then?

    We need all the ships we can get and we just lost our biggest one

    It's a crisis and we need to secure the Black Sea coast, all of it.

    Bastion, Bal and Sukhois are better than 1 ship with Vulcan.

    By the way, if Turks let NATO warships in, then we will all be in your previously described Plan D where the likes of Bulava and Yars will do all the talking and all the above will not even be a sideshow.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:08 am

    Lot of tough guys I see,

    No skin in the game

    Sinking of moskva?

    Nahhh thats not a big deal! Your being emotional!

    If turks let nato in wel hit em with Bulava

    Lmfao

    Fucking idiots

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    Post  mnrck Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:16 am

    Soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine sell their armored vehicles to the DPR militias and gladly accept payment in rubles
    https://t.me/intelslava/25288

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    Post  Serberus Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:27 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Lot of tough guys I see,

    No skin in the game

    Sinking of moskva?

    Nahhh thats not a big deal! Your being emotional!

    If turks let nato in wel hit em with Bulava

    Lmfao

    Fucking idiots

    I’m don’t remember anyone saying “not a bid deal”
    But in the overall picture its not the end of the world or this war.
    What did you expect? take on Nato with no significant losses?
    No proxy war has ever been fought harder by the west before, to the point where I struggle to even call it a proxy war, they are literally involved or outright in control  of everything  from training, armament, command and structure, Intelligence , propaganda, planning... Its literally a war with Nato and Wehrmacht as their ground troops.

    I wish losing Mосква didn’t happen as much as you believe me, the ship was useful and had decent firepower but you are clearly overreacting as to how much impact its loss will have on the overall theatre of war. If there is reason to criticise the leadership or Naval command due to negligence then fine, but it has to be rooted in factual evidence not emotion.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:29 am

    It's not about skin in the game it's about an appraisal of the situation

    The flagship and command ship of one of the 4 major fleets has been sunk. This creates a serious security crisis of escalation with NATO. It is no longer possible to carry on the operation as it was before, we are threatened with conventional war with NATO, even unofficially, on the territory of the Ukraine - and the calculation will be made that a larger foothold is necessary immediately to stave off the threat to mainland Russian territory

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    Post  zorobabel Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:35 am

    Serberus wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:Lot of tough guys I see,

    No skin in the game

    Sinking of moskva?

    Nahhh thats not a big deal! Your being emotional!

    If turks let nato in wel hit em with Bulava

    Lmfao

    Fucking idiots

    I’m don’t remember anyone saying “not a bid deal”
    But in the overall picture its not the end of the world or this war.
    What did you expect? take on Nato with no significant losses?
    No proxy war has ever been fought harder by the west before, to the point where I struggle to even call it a proxy war, they are literally involved or outright in control  of everything  from training, armament, command and structure, Intelligence , propaganda, planning... Its literally a war with Nato and Wehrmacht as their ground troops.

    I wish losing Mосква didn’t happen as much as you believe me, the ship was useful and had decent firepower but you are clearly overreacting as to how much impact its loss will have on the overall theatre of war. If there is reason to criticise the leadership or Naval command due to negligence then fine, but it has to be rooted in factual evidence not emotion.
    Yes, of course, we all understand it is a proxy war. The question for me is, what is Russia going to do about it? Weapons are flowing into Ukraine almost unfettered.

    "We took a major loss because it is a proxy war. NATO is commanding Ukrainian forces." Okay, what is the next step to victory for Russia?
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    Post  Serberus Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:36 am

    I sincerely doubt the loss or Moskva will have any impact on NATO’s decision making on entering the war officially. They are arrogant enough no matter what, the only thing stoping them is the nuclear deterrent, not Russias navy in the slightest with or without Moskva

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    Post  mnrck Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:47 am

    Loss of the ship is serious we have to admit however it’s anticipated during any military operation that there’s setbacks. But in the end of the day what matter is the whole results of the operation. According to the American, they won every single battle against VPA during American War, only to loose the war.

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    Post  zorobabel Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:57 am

    Well, I waited 49 days to piss, moan, and have a few sippy-poos of vodka.

    Going back into hiding. Hopefully things will be better in another week or two.
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    Post  Krepost Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:12 am

    flamming_python wrote:It's not about skin in the game it's about an appraisal of the situation

    The flagship and command ship of one of the 4 major fleets has been sunk. This creates a serious security crisis of escalation with NATO. It is no longer possible to carry on the operation as it was before, we are threatened with conventional war with NATO, even unofficially, on the territory of the Ukraine - and the calculation will be made that a larger foothold is necessary immediately to stave off the threat to mainland Russian territory

    What?

    The whole operation was hinging on the Moskva?
    And the ship was single-handedly holding off the NATO hordes?

    Quite a ship it must have been.

    Sarcasm/off

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    Post  mnztr Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:14 am

    flamming_python wrote:It's not about skin in the game it's about an appraisal of the situation

    The flagship and command ship of one of the 4 major fleets has been sunk. This creates a serious security crisis of escalation with NATO. It is no longer possible to carry on the operation as it was before, we are threatened with conventional war with NATO, even unofficially, on the territory of the Ukraine - and the calculation will be made that a larger foothold is necessary immediately to stave off the threat to mainland Russian territory

    So what if the operation has to change a bit. Moskova was not intergral to this war as its mostly a land war. SAM protection can be provided from Crimea. If NATO enters the black sea and its ships engage, there are many Russian assets that can respond. Air, surface and submarines as well as land based missiles. Any amphibious landing can be covered by other ships backed up by air power. Russia has enough capability overlap that the loss of Moskova does not prevent any type of operation as far as I can see. That said some people will be coming under very close scrutiny and will likely be facing the end of their careers or time in jail.
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:22 am

    Just the amount of cope here is ridiculous

    NATO has voiced its intention to help the Ukraine retake Crimea, and now the Moskva has been lost. Other ships can be attacked next. And who knows what NATO will announce next.

    Russia is not at war with NATO yet has already lost part of its anti-ship strike potential and anti-air capabilities in the Black Sea, as well as its command vessel.
    Modern Buks start to approach the ranges of the S-300F anyway, but the Moskva has no replacement right at the moment.

    The prestige lost and the morale boost to the Ukraine nullifies all results in the Donbass to date.

    The entire Black Sea coast must be secured, if it's not safe to blockade it from the sea. Then it should be secured with anti-ship and anti-air complexes

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    Post  PhSt Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:34 am


    Is Kiev still in existence? Whats the status of the rumored strikes today?
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    Post  Krepost Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:37 am

    flamming_python wrote:Just the amount of cope here is ridiculous

    NATO has voiced its intention to help the Ukraine retake Crimea, and now the Moskva has been lost. Other ships can be attacked next. And who knows what NATO will announce next.

    Russia is not at war with NATO yet has already lost part of its anti-ship strike potentia and anti-air capabilities in the Black Sea, as well as its command vessel.
    Modern Buks start to approach the ranges of the S-300F anyway, but the Moskva has no replacement right at the moment.

    The prestige lost and the morale boost to the Ukraine nullifies all results in the Donbass to date.

    The entire Black Sea coast must be secured, if it's not safe to blockade it from the sea. Then it should be secured with anti-ship and anti-air complexes

    FP, you and a few others are having difficulty in coping with setbacks and losses.

    Man, this is war not a football match.

    And no, the loss of the Moskva does not nullify the results in Donbass.

    Temporary prestige and morale loss are secondary. What matters is planting the Russian flag on more towns and villages.

    I am fed up with the chicken-little here that make it sound that the sky is falling each time there is a setback.
    They come up like drama-queen each time there is a setback and spread their bitching. moaning whining and complaining.
    They did it when the Russians temporarily lost Palmyra.
    They did it when the Turks shot down one Su-24
    Etc. etc.

    Guess what:
    There will be other setbacks and losses during this operation.
    If some people can't deal with it emotionally, I suggest they stop following the conflict.
    At the end, Russia will prevail. That's what matters.

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:48 am

    Krepost wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Just the amount of cope here is ridiculous

    NATO has voiced its intention to help the Ukraine retake Crimea, and now the Moskva has been lost. Other ships can be attacked next. And who knows what NATO will announce next.

    Russia is not at war with NATO yet has already lost part of its anti-ship strike potentia and anti-air capabilities in the Black Sea, as well as its command vessel.
    Modern Buks start to approach the ranges of the S-300F anyway, but the Moskva has no replacement right at the moment.

    The prestige lost and the morale boost to the Ukraine nullifies all results in the Donbass to date.

    The entire Black Sea coast must be secured, if it's not safe to blockade it from the sea. Then it should be secured with anti-ship and anti-air complexes

    FP, you and a few others are having difficulty in coping with setbacks and losses.

    Man, this is war not a football match.

    And no, the loss of the Moskva does not nullify the results in Donbass.

    Temporary prestige and morale loss are secondary. What matters is planting the Russian flag on more towns and villages.

    I am fed up with the chicken-little here that make it sound that the sky is falling each time there is a setback.
    They come up like drama-queen each time there is a setback and spread their bitching. moaning whining and complaining.
    They did it when the Russians temporarily lost Palmyra.
    They did it when the Turks shot down one Su-24
    Etc. etc.

    Guess what:
    There will be other setbacks and losses during this operation.
    If some people can't deal with it emotionally, I suggest they stop following the conflict.
    At the end, Russia will prevail. That's what matters.

    Russia has been far too lax in preparing for this conflict.

    The loss of the Moskva has strategic implications, in this era of media war.

    Unfortunately Russia is learning these lessons too late, the result now will be more escalation. That's the price of losing the Moskva. If Russia doesn't escalate, then NATO will, and the operation will fail one way or the other. It's useless to plant more flags and generate good will, in a situation where NATO will enter the Ukraine with its conventional armies.

    At best, we will end up with a situation now like the Korean war. All the land will be devestated and we will pay massively for the half we get in lives, the economy, everything. You can call that a victory if you want.

    All because of these people in charge, who couldn't do their jobs, and figure out that the Moskva will be targeted if given the opportunity, and in general - only served to fail and embolden the enemy time and time again with failed political-military strategies.

    I know we won't 'lose'. But it's just a tragedy, a massive one, and most of all for the people who live in the Ukraine. For us it's nothing good either.

    I have nothing more to say. I am endlessly disappointed in those who proclaim to lead us, remove all competition for the seats of power, create an aura of normalcy, control and being on top of their game, while living in opulence and helping their friends to high places too - yet let their people down with amateur hour at a time when nothing is more important than to not make any mistakes.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:53 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  zorobabel Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:52 am

    PhSt wrote:
    Is Kiev still in existence? Whats the status of the rumored strikes today?
    Still in existence. Mr. Zelensky is still tweeting. Despite 'power outaages', residents still posting on Tik-Tok.

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    Post  mnztr Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:03 am

    Maybe they should rename it to the "special needs military operation" at this rate.

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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:05 am

    Not gonna lie I laughed....

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:18 am

    Serberus wrote:Sad to see the news about Москва after waking up. Its a big loss for sentimental and prideful reasons but in the end the loss of one fairly old ship, even a “flagship” , will not effect the outcome of the war...

    If what Python is saying is true (and it most likely is) sinking of Moskva could definitely have effect on war but not in the way most people think

    Apparently surrender at Mariupol were supposed to serve as motivation for VSU in Donbass to surrender, a strategy which would have been continuation of pussyfooting which led to this mess in the first place

    So if sinking of Moskva torched that plan and forced Russians to get serious and go ahead with heavy approach by finally starting to kill off VSU then there is some silver lining to losing one old ship



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    Post  zorobabel Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:22 am

    Can someone explain why Russia can only carry out 10% of the sorties per day on its own border compared to the US-led operation in Iraq where American-led forces were carrying out sorties on the other side of the planet from their country? Yes, I understand the US has many bases in the Gulf. Why is Russia unable to project power on its own border?

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:22 am

    flamming_python wrote:Turkey can turn around tomorrow and let the NATO fleet in

    What then?

    Then nothing as long as they stay away

    If they interfere in any way then you do what you are supposed to do in that situation and start killing them

    This isn't rocket science



    Also I doubt that 40 year old ship was THAT crucial

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:29 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Serberus wrote:Sad to see the news about Москва after waking up. Its a big loss for sentimental and prideful reasons but in the end the loss of one fairly old ship, even a “flagship” , will not effect the outcome of the war...

    If what Python is saying is true (and it most likely is) sinking of Moskva could definitely have effect on war but not in the way most people think

    Apparently surrender at Mariupol were supposed to serve as motivation for VSU in Donbass to surrender, a strategy which would have been continuation of pussyfooting which led to this mess in the first place

    So if sinking of Moskva torched that plan and forced Russians to get serious and go ahead with heavy approach by finally starting to kill off VSU then there is some silver lining to losing one old ship




    You can win the war that way but you won't win the peace. You simply won't, you'll end up with an insurgency for years that will make the Ukraine a massive lead weight hanging off your neck.

    Russia has to find some way of 'pussyfooting' ultimately. When it comes to the Ukrainian rank and file and the general population. Their Nazi leadership and assorted fanatics are highly expendable.

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    Post  PhSt Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:38 am


    but you won't win the peace. You simply won't, you'll end up with an insurgency for years

    Look, with the regular NATzO psyops, the general Ukrop population is already brainwashed to hate the Russians anyway. There has to be a solid Russofication policy in place. Those who will fail to pass the loyalty test will have to donate their organs involuntarily for the greater good of Russiankind and wither away with dignity.

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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:38 am

    flamming_python wrote:Just the amount of cope here is ridiculous

    NATO has voiced its intention to help the Ukraine retake Crimea, and now the Moskva has been lost. Other ships can be attacked next. And who knows what NATO will announce next....

    So fucking what?

    NATO this, NATO that, are you so scared shitless of NATO that you are panicking over what they "voiced"?

    Who gives f*ck what they voiced, do you have military or not? Do you have nuclear weapons or not?

    If someone tries to f*ck with you just kill them, plain and simple

    Unless Russia is just as much of a pussy as USSR was any time anyone even mentioned NATO or nukes?



    flamming_python wrote:...The prestige lost and the morale boost to the Ukraine nullifies all results in the Donbass to date...

    So go kill shitload of Ukrainians then, dead people don't have moral and you get your precious prestige back

    Trust me, you haven't exactly been scoring any groundbreaking results so far all thanks to pussyfooting, it would be smart to change that approach






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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:46 am

    flamming_python wrote:You can win the war that way but you won't win the peace. You simply won't, you'll end up with an insurgency for years that will make the Ukraine a massive lead weight hanging off your neck....

    We know for certain now that you were getting war no matter what and that you were getting insurgency no matter what

    So it's time to let go of what could have been and to focus on what is and what will be

    So you can either roll over and die or you can put on your big boy pants and get to work

    You were never getting Nazis to side with you and Ukraine is made of Nazis, accept that already

    If you want to deal with insurgency you take that stinking place and outsource counter insurgency to locals just like you are supposed to and like you already done before in Chechnia

    Dead people don't organize or fight insurgencies, you keep that in mind



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