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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #12

    Podlodka77
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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:54 am

    Eugenio Argentina wrote:The forum has already been filled with messages that do not contribute anything.
    It would be better not to write anything without having some proof.
    Otherwise, it ends up becoming a dump, where some interested in muddying the court with their lies come.

    russia

    It's called a shock because this with "Moscow" caused a shock. The ship itself does not change anything. The Russians have the S-400 and S-500, Tor-M2 or Pantsir, "Moscow" did not have it. The Russians have "calibers", "onyxes" and "daggers", which "Moscow" did not have. Only the name of the ship and its place of the command ship in the Black Sea Fleet are what hurts. Forty-three years have passed since the launch of "Moscow". Yes, I feel sorry for the ship, yes, but it has not been modernized either, and the mistake was made that it was sent quite far from the home port.
    I hope this is the last Russian mistake.

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    franco
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    Post  franco Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:57 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    zorobabel wrote:...Maybe someone with insight into the Kremlin can explain how 80k Russian soldiers are supposed to defeat 500k Ukrainian soldiers, marines, militia, and civil defense fighters.

    Bombs

    Lots and lots of bombs

    But they need to start using them

    Try 200,000 Russian forces when the Donbas militias are counted. Their advantage is they are together while the Ukrainians are all over the place with limited mobility and heavy weaponry.

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    littlerabbit
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    Post  littlerabbit Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:05 am

    Considering the loss of the BSF flagship, cruiser Moscow, I can only repeat what Michael Caine said in one of his movies: It's a bloody disaster. No


    Considering other war/SO developments, it's very slow and pretty sloppy. A lot of sensless actions and manouvres, in my opinion. Of course, I'm not a military man, so it's natural that I don't understand a lot of stuff going on, but still...it doesn't look very good, in my opinion.

    Also, what's about the news Shoygu had a heart attack today? Is that another fake or something else?

    And WTF with those negotiations and making deals with nazi morons in the middle of the military operation, what kind of political strategy is that?

    Frankly, it looks to me like they started with totally wrong tactic/strategy and someone will have to pay for it.

    On the other hand, it could be a brilliant strategy, which will give excellent results very soon. I really hope I'm wrong and everything is going on according to a plan.

    Sorry about this, guys, but I'm really pissed off right now. attack

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:09 am

    littlerabbit wrote:Considering the loss of the BSF flagship, cruiser Moscow, I can only repeat what Michael Caine said in one of his movies: It's a bloody disaster.  No


    Considering other war/SO developments, it's very slow and pretty sloppy. A lot of sensless actions and manouvres, in my opinion. Of course, I'm not a military man, so it's natural that I don't understand a lot of stuff going on, but still...it doesn't look very good, in my opinion.

    Also, what's about the news Shoygu had a heart attack today? Is that another fake or something else?

    And WTF with those negotiations and making deals with nazi morons in the middle of the military operation, what kind of political strategy is that?

    Frankly, it looks to me like they started with totally wrong tactic/strategy and someone will have to pay for it.

    On the other hand, it could be a brilliant strategy, which will give excellent results very soon. I really hope I'm wrong and everything is going on according to a plan.

    Sorry about this, guys, but I'm really pissed off right now.   attack

    Bro, it's natural

    This 10d chess , incompetence cover-up has to stop

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:10 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Lots of strikes in Kiev, power partially out there

    Something huge burning in Zhitomir, looks like another fuel depot

    And the Ukrs have set something ablaze in Belgorod too

    Looks like phase 2 of the operation has started

    Or should I say plan C. As it looks like their plans for the Donbass have been rendered meaningless by the Moskva sinking and Kiev trying to call their bluff about striking Russian territory

    Wonder if we'll get a landing in Odessa, new advance on Kiev from Belarus, encirclement of Nikolayev now

    **** yeah it's bout time , shame it took all this to get it on

    Really hope we didn't lose Moskva for kramatorsk and slavyansk only

    We need the whole pie now, zelu head on a platter

    That was always the plan

    Just different ways of doing it

    Best way regime change, plan A
    Next best way crusade and demoralisation, mass surrenders, uncovering evil deeds in bunkers, plan B
    Fking everyone up, plan C

    And I don't even know what to say. Our leadership was checked and countered at every turn. If you don't know how to win a war, well then don't start it.
    Plan D is a nuclear war with NATO at this rate. Because NATO will come in conventionally too, and what's Russia going to do, with it's barely trained mobilization pool that it has neglected for decades?

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:12 am

    Bro , Biden gave us a green light the day he said he wasn't going in

    Why we wasted time with A and B is beyond me

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    Azi


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    Post  Azi Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:15 am

    Everyone better keep a cool head! Russia is waging war not only against Ukraine, but actually against the whole western world. Not the weapons alone are really decisive, but also the information that the west hands Ukraine over...and it is clear that the USA has outstanding reconnaissance technology.

    To the Moskva...
    You must not forget that a storm is raging in the Black Sea and the Neptun missiles were therefore more difficult to detect with radar. Also, we don't know how many missiles were fired in the attack salvo. Or maybe it was a sea mine?

    It's a loss, of course, but a symbolic rather than a military loss. I have to agree with flamming python on one thing...the Ukrainian resistance will gain momentum, so I also have to agree with Papa Dragon that large-scale bombardments of the positions of the Ukrainian armed forces must now take place...no civilian targets but the military ones. Precision strikes just aren't enough anymore.

    There is a saying in Germany...(Lernen durch Schmerz) Learn through pain! This applies to both sides. The Russian side must improve and the Ukrainian side should learn through suffering that they cannot win.


    Last edited by Azi on Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Regular Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:15 am

    limb wrote:Bottom line is that there should be a stalinesque purge of the Russian navy leadership since they're so incompetent to lose their high value cruiser.

    **** your anticommunism. This is what happens to the Russian military when it's capitalist.

    I don't think political/economical affiliations should affect the military, even if Russia was anarchist, there is no excuse for incompetence and it should have nothing to do with economic system of Russia. Soviet leadership also sucked during the beginning of the WW2, mostly because of the massive purges, but thanks to career Darwinism - meritocracy took over and very capable people got into leadership in all branches.

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    Post  Firebird Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:16 am

    I think people need to calm down about the Moskva.
    It seems the storm, a fire and ordnance accident caused the problem.Far far bigger ships than the Moskva sink in merchant navy quite often.

    Let alone an old ship thats being worked harder in this environment.

    Russia has many other vessels to call upon without having the hassle of the Montreux Convention re Istanbul. It has plenty of modern frigates and corvettes, all very powerful and capable. From the Black Sea Fleet AND the Caspian Flotilla.
    It also has land bridges from Kherson and Crimea and Nikolaev for the Odessa area.
    Banderastanis would be stupid to move substantial numbers about because of Russia's vast air superiority.

    Sadly things happen in war. But thankfully human casualties were pretty low. And there is not a very significant loss. Meanwhile the Banderascum are haemorraging huge losses every day. People need to RELAX!

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    limb


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    Post  limb Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:20 am

    Firebird wrote:I think people need to calm down about the Moskva.
    It seems the storm, a fire and ordnance accident caused the problem.Far far bigger ships than the Moskva sink in merchant navy quite often.

    Let alone an old ship thats being worked harder in this environment.

    Russia has many other vessels to call upon without having the hassle of the Montreux Convention re Istanbul. It has plenty of modern frigates and corvettes, all very powerful and capable. From the Black Sea Fleet AND the Caspian Flotilla.
    It also has land bridges from Kherson and Crimea and Nikolaev for the Odessa area.
    Banderastanis would be stupid to move substantial numbers about because of Russia's vast air superiority.

    Sadly things happen in war. But thankfully human casualties were pretty low. And there is not a very significant loss. Meanwhile the Banderascum are haemorraging huge losses every day. People need to RELAX!

    No Russian warships we're lost in the winter war. Let that sink in.

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    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:21 am

    So i heard BSF commander was arrested. i wonder if that true ?

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    Belisarius


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    Post  Belisarius Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:24 am

    Mad:olodymyr Mad:elenskyy?

    Ukraine today has banned the symbols Z and V.
    https://t.me/inessas100/1123
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    Azi


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    Post  Azi Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:25 am

    People...calm down!

    Do not fall for Western and Ukrainian propaganda. Then you can subscribe to Illia Ponomarenko right away.

    There is an information war going on!


    How well did the Ukrainian offensive on Kherson go? How many planes did the Kyiv Ghost shoot down? Don't let your brain go pudding!


    Last edited by Azi on Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Regular Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:27 am

    I don't understand few things in this operation.

    Why this time of the year was chosen when troop movement is road-bound most of the time?

    Why Russia didn't start with a bombing campaign and let their strategic aviation from the leash?

    Russia barely does anything to disrupt Ukrainian mobilization attempts and I believe with 1000+ sorties per day Russia could have ended Ukrainian efforts short. It would be highly demoralizing and even if it would bring destruction, most of it will be in the western parts.

    What was the point of the Northern advance? It was noted many times that they will have to retreat due to troop shortages, not only Strelkov said that.

    These things I don't understand and it does look like political decisions rather than what military would want.

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    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:28 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Bro , Biden gave us a green light the day he said he wasn't going in

    Why we wasted time with A and B is beyond me

    Why would it matter if they were going in or not? They would be outside their own turf so just torch them same as UAF

    If they have problem with that then just nuke their Eastern buffer as a warning

    Ukraine is not in NATO and Russia should not give a shit if anyone other than original Cold War group was in it or not

    Russia made the mistake when they allowed NATO to decide who gets to be in NATO, another nonsense that needs to be corrected











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    Azi


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    Post  Azi Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:34 am

    Regular wrote:I don't understand few things in this operation.

    ......

    Why Russia didn't start with a bombing campaign and let their strategic aviation from the leash?
    Collateral damage! Would have given the Ukrops time to dig in and for mobilization. In Kosovo war the bombing campaign had nearly to zero effect against serbian forces...don't forget!

    Regular wrote:Russia barely does anything to disrupt Ukrainian mobilization attempts and I believe with 1000+ sorties per day Russia could have ended Ukrainian efforts short. It would be highly demoralizing and even if it would bring destruction, most of it will be in the western parts.
    Mobilization is taking place in city centres...collateral damage!

    Regular wrote:What was the point of the Northern advance? It was noted many times that they will have to retreat due to troop shortages, not only Strelkov said that.

    These things I don't understand and it does look like political decisions rather than what military would want.
    It was a political mistake...a mistake that they will make not twice. With more troops or partial mobilization the northern territories would be still in russian hands.

    They had a shortage of troops, so no offensive in Donbass without the troops from north of Ukraine. And like you wrote...it was a political mistake and not a military failure.

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    Post  zorobabel Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:35 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:Bro , Biden gave us a green light the day he said he wasn't going in

    Why we wasted time with A and B is beyond me
    Maybe I have misread the news, but apparently there is some weird condition that only volunteer (contract) soldiers can serve in Ukraine. So of Russia's 1.2 million active soldiers or so, it is gimped to less than 150k.
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    Post  Azi Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:38 am

    limb wrote:
    No Russian warships we're lost in the winter war. Let that sink in.
    A russian battleship in a finnish lake? This was a land war!

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    Post  Belisarius Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:38 am

    Regular wrote:
    What was the point of the Northern advance? It was noted many times that they will have to retreat due to troop shortages, not only Strelkov said that.

    Scott Ritter assumes the northern advance was a "feint"

    https://youtu.be/w5RKNoIhE40

    https://youtu.be/SN7o-ThhFfY

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    Post  Azi Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:38 am

    zorobabel wrote:
    Maybe I have misread the news, but apparently there is some weird condition that only volunteer (contract) soldiers can serve in Ukraine. So of Russia's 1.2 million active soldiers or so, it is gimped to less than 150k..
    That's the main problem of the campaign...no conscripts in the whole conflict! Sad

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    Post  nomadski Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:40 am

    A fire caused explosion in ammo compartment in ship ? Ammo is kept together , so explosion resulting will be very large , and ship will most likely sink quickly or immediately . No time to evacuate 500 souls . Also limited number of casualties of 25 or so , indicated small explosion . Ship took almost 24 hours to sink ; this means that the hole in the Hull was small and near the water mark , and not above or below it . Consistent with sea-skimming small missile . Now , I understand why , it is said that a fire caused this . It does not force the Russian hands , into a reaction . At a time , when forces are needed in Donbas , as diversionary tactic . Ships are easy targets for missiles , on account of their size and materials and heat and Radar signature . I remember reading that even the most advanced Radar on ships and computers , was unable to cope with anything , more than two incoming , simultaneous missiles fired at it . If NATO is helping UA , with anti - ship missiles , then Odessa can be approached by Sea using many small landing craft . These can be made  produced now . Also the area , inland from Odessa and Nikolayev  must be cleared from UA missile systems . A suitable retaliation first is to rebuild the Moscow ship . And also destroy something symbolic of Nazi Army .


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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:41 am

    Azi wrote:
    limb wrote:
    No Russian warships we're lost in the winter war. Let that sink in.
    A russian battleship in a finnish lake? This was a land war!

    He has no idea where Finland is.
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    Post  Firebird Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:41 am

    limb wrote:
    Firebird wrote:I think people need to calm down about the Moskva.
    It seems the storm, a fire and ordnance accident caused the problem.Far far bigger ships than the Moskva sink in merchant navy quite often.

    Let alone an old ship thats being worked harder in this environment.

    Russia has many other vessels to call upon without having the hassle of the Montreux Convention re Istanbul. It has plenty of modern frigates and corvettes, all very powerful and capable. From the Black Sea Fleet AND the Caspian Flotilla.
    It also has land bridges from Kherson and Crimea and Nikolaev for the Odessa area.
    Banderastanis would be stupid to move substantial numbers about because of Russia's vast air superiority.

    Sadly things happen in war. But thankfully human casualties were pretty low. And there is not a very significant loss. Meanwhile the Banderascum are haemorraging huge losses every day. People need to RELAX!

    No Russian warships we're lost in the winter war. Let that sink in.

    Because the Baltic Sea froze over!So v little naval activity.
    Plus... look at the casualty level on the Russian side in 1919. 380 THOUSAND casualties on one source!


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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:45 am

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    Post  flamming_python Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:46 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:So i heard BSF commander was arrested. i wonder if that true ?

    One can hope

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