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    Su-35S: News #2

    GarryB
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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  GarryB Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:54 pm

    Either way it sucks for Egypt that it was put in such a crappy position by the US and I always maintained that between Russia and Egypt, the middle finger would be applied for so many reasons beyond the US' ability to maintain its threat of sanctions, but I guess I was wrong.

    Well the problem is that politicians have business interests, and also financial backers who also have business interests and of course for big business in Egypt the big players also have business interests and many of those interests will include connections and ties with the US and other economies that they can influence.

    Your politicians might dearly love to cut ties with the US because they are toxic... but when a puppet has its strings cut the first thing it does is it falls to the floor in a heap.

    Someone on the internet might see that as a necessary step to becoming a real boy, but it is not so great for the people who fall to the ground... even with the promise they can stand on their own two feet in some future date.

    The Ukraine and the UK both made the same mistake... they ignored their market and their main customers... in the case of the Ukraine they thought the west would replace the Russians as their main customers, but the west has their own engines and aircraft and they didn't want more competition, and the UK ignored or didn't think about the fact that the European market is their main market to trade.

    If and when Egypt joins BRICS and starts increasing trade with non western countries then their ability to be independent will increase, but for a politician to make decisions that will lead to serious economic damage is political suicide, and if you haven't noticed these days most don't have the honour or integrity to fall on their swords when they have been caught.

    However, much better that they end up with the RuAF or VVS than Iran IMO. Nothing against Iran, quite the opposite since I'd like to see them augment the level of their AF to deal with any potential US/Israeli attack, just not with the customized beauties that were destined to Egypt.

    They will likely require modification for the VVS... much like the MiG-29SMT aircraft for Algeria needed changes too...

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:05 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Well the problem is that politicians have business interests, and also financial backers who also have business interests and of course for big business in Egypt the big players also have business interests and many of those interests will include connections and ties with the US and other economies that they can influence.

    Your politicians might dearly love to cut ties with the US because they are toxic... but when a puppet has its strings cut the first thing it does is it falls to the floor in a heap.

    Someone on the internet might see that as a necessary step to becoming a real boy, but it is not so great for the people who fall to the ground... even with the promise they can stand on their own two feet in some future date.

    The Ukraine and the UK both made the same mistake... they ignored their market and their main customers... in the case of the Ukraine they thought the west would replace the Russians as their main customers, but the west has their own engines and aircraft and they didn't want more competition, and the UK ignored or didn't think about the fact that the European market is their main market to trade.

    If and when Egypt joins BRICS and starts increasing trade with non western countries then their ability to be independent will increase, but for a politician to make decisions that will lead to serious economic damage is political suicide, and if you haven't noticed these days most don't have the honour or integrity to fall on their swords when they have been caught.

    You're absolutely right.  Sisi is an interesting individual and never shows his displeasure, even when he gets insulted by the media to the whole world like he did on 60 minutes when he got clobbered for the deaths in Tahrir Square and started sweating profusely!  It was the most embarrassing moments of his presidency and what did he do?  He asked his staff to "please ask the producer not to air that part" lol.  Of course they aired it and made a huge stink about it as if he was totally guilty of the deaths/murders.

    The other time was when that dufous Trump called him his "favorite dictator" LMFAO!  He took that one with a completely easy stride and laughed it off.

    But behind closed doors, everyone knows he is not to be messed with except those he is powerless against such as the US.  Even Biden said "no more freebies for Trump's favorite dictator" during his campaign and what did Sisi do?  Nothing!  As a matter of fact, he shook Biden's hand when they met for the first time in Saudi Arabia and said some polite greeting and that was the end of that.  Even the Crown Prince whom Biden blatantly accused of murdering Khashogshy barely shook Buden's hand and while ignoring him for most of the summit, he gave him the wicked stink-eye! lol

    Would we like to see Sisi be less of a puppet like you mentioned?  Hell yeah!  But all the reasons you mentioned for him not to be are exactly why he never will and will only choose the battles he can handily win.  Something tells me, though, he and his foreign minister could've put up a much better fight against CAATSA for the Su-35SEs than he did which is why we are most devastated about that.  They would've been the best fighters Egypt would've ever possessed and us fanboys would've been talking about them every single day!  Dammit!

    GarryB wrote:
    They will likely require modification for the VVS... much like the MiG-29SMT aircraft for Algeria needed changes too...

    What kind of modifications?  I do remember that the EAF had requested the AESA radar that is on the Su-57 along with the complimentary ones on the leading-edge flaps & wing tips.  The reason for that was because they were promised an upgrade from the doppler Zhuk-ME to the AESA Zhuk-AE on the 46 MiG-29M/M2s but the war put that on hold.  So the radar for the Su-35 was a must on the contract which BTW, I was reading some posts here that people were a bit angry because Egypt seemed to cowardly back out of the deal after all 30 aircraft were built which surprised me that they didn't know that a major deposit was paid upfront on those aircraft specifically for that reason.  Not sure what the amount was, but I think all 30 aircraft were in the vicinity of $2.5 billion.  So at least 1/3 - 1/2 of that was already paid upfront.

    And small correction on the Algerian MiG-29SMT was that when they were due for overhauls of certain systems, they found Israeli electronic parts in them and that's when they took a fit and decided that was not part of the deal, hence the change.  They should've known better (the Algerians, that is) and that it shouldn't have been such a devastating surprise.
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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  AMCXXL Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:20 pm

    We can see the Su 35 whose serial number ends in 10411 and the Su-35 whose serial numbers end in 08716 and 08615. So 2 series of planes in parallel???
    ALso can see the Su 35 whose serial number ends in 10409. Series 10.

    If each series has 20 airplanes, from 08615 to 10411, there are at least 37 Su-35 in the production chain rigth now

    https://twitter.com/La_souris_DA/status/1691338193352724480?s=20
    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 F3jWsVkWoAA18h5?format=jpg&name=medium
    https://twitter.com/La_souris_DA/status/1691335378324615168?s=20
    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 F3jS04OW0AAfy1-?format=jpg&name=large

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    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:06 am

    AMCXXL wrote:We can see the Su 35 whose serial number ends in 10411 and the Su-35 whose serial numbers end in 08716 and 08615. So 2 series of planes in parallel???

    If each series has 20 airplanes, from 08615 to 10411, there are at least 37 Su-35 in the production chain right now

    I'm guessing those are all slated for the VVS, right? Same as these ones that were seen under production during Kim's recent visit?

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 F6HfyPracAAgBml?format=jpg&name=900x900

    Also is there anything concrete about a deal for Iran for the ex-Egyptian Su-35s?
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    Post  Hole Wed Sep 20, 2023 11:11 am

    Iran received some Yak-130s to train her pilots. So...  dunno
    Maybe next year?

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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:00 pm

    Hole wrote:Iran received some Yak-130s to train her pilots. So...  dunno
    Maybe next year?

    It seems like something is in store with that Yak-130 delivery. I hope it materializes and they do get them.

    I've been wondering where the heck they are. Stored in some underground shelter or in hangars? They're hidden from prying eyes for sure.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:24 am

    Just when I posted yesterday wondering where they might be or end up, this shows up in another setting.

    Thanks to my friend @mack8 who found this X post showing the Egyptian Su-35s during Kim Jong Un's visit last week displayed in storage wrapping at KNAAPO while still retaining their EAF serial numbers.  Quite the coincidence.

    The translation of the post is as follows:

    If North Korea were to acquire a new aircraft, I think the candidate would be the Su-35.



    Wouldn't be so bad if they ended up in NK either. I'd rather see Iran get them but North Korea will be just fine too.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:17 am

    Why either or... Su-35s for everyone.... What a Face

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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:37 pm

    Hole wrote:Iran received some Yak-130s to train her pilots. So...  dunno
    Maybe next year?

    There are 28 finished Su-35 waiting for owner

    DPRK need MiG-29SMT or new MiG-35, but Su-35 seems too much for little Korea peninsula

    Russia also need a lot of Su-35 squadrons, long time announced for Millerovo, Kaliningrad, etc... even Yelizovo and probably also Monchegorsk for complement of MiG-31BM as in Khotilovo and Vladivostok

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    Post  Hole Sat Sep 23, 2023 4:53 pm

    Pilots for those Su-35s don´t fall from the sky ( Wink). Should Iran get them they need to train pilots first.

    Korea isn´t that small. Maybe a combination of some Su-30SMs and a few S-400 units would fit the situation there better.
    NK isn´t short of attack assets.

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    Post  owais.usmani Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:04 am

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    Post  mack8 Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:19 pm

    Bmpd article on today's delivery of Su-35S/Su-57. They seem to think there should be about 12 Su-35S delivered this year (8 already delivered including today's batch), and also 7-8 Su-57s (first delivery of the year being today)
    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4756536.html

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    Post  George1 Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:26 pm

    Earlier this year, the Russian Aerospace Forces already received two batches of Su-35S fighters newly built by KnAAZ - the first on June 23 and the second on July 13. The number of Su-35S and Su-57 fighters transferred to the Russian Ministry of Defense in all batches of this year is not reported, and the side and registration numbers of the Su-35S aircraft in the video and photographic materials officially distributed by the UAC are retouched, although it can be recognized that the side numbers of the Su-35S aircraft of the first two batches were blue.

    In the previous year 2022, the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant named after Yu.A. Gagarin transferred seven Su-35S fighters to the Russian Aerospace Forces - three in September and four in December.

    Presumably, the Su-35S fighters now transferred were manufactured within the framework of the fourth contract concluded by the UAC in 2021 for the supply of Su-35S aircraft to the Russian Ministry of Defense. It is possible that this contract includes 24 aircraft with delivery until 2024. Presumably, the first four fighters under this contract were delivered to the Aerospace Forces in December 2022 and apparently had blue tail numbers “04”, “05”, “06” and “07”. Presumably, in 2023, up to 12 Su-35S aircraft will be delivered under this contract, of which a total of eight units have been delivered to date.

    Previously, under three previous contracts of 2009, 2015 and 2020, the Russian Aerospace Forces received 104 production Su-35S aircraft from 2012 to 2022, and taking into account the four aircraft delivered under the new contract in December 2022, by the beginning of 2023 the Aerospace Forces received 108 production aircraft Su-35S.


    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4756536.html

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    Post  George1 Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:30 pm

    https://www.russiadefence.net/t4804p825-su-35s-news#290972

    2 contracts (or 1 broken in 2) of Su-35S in 2020 are visible in the table:
    6 (3 in 2021 and 3 in 2022) +
    24 (4 in 2022, 12 in 2023, 8 in 2024)

    Until now we have

    -Dec 2021: 3 ("58", "59","60") https://www.russiadefence.net/t8561p75-su-35s-news-2#349040
    -Sep 2022: 3 (“01”, “02”, “03”) https://www.russiadefence.net/t8561p125-su-35s-news-2#395655

    -Dec 2022: 4  (“04”, “05”, “06”, “07”) https://www.russiadefence.net/t8561p175-su-35s-news-2#410022
    -Jun-Jul 2023: 4 https://www.russiadefence.net/t8561p225-su-35s-news-2#429935, https://www.russiadefence.net/t8561p225-su-35s-news-2#431858
    -Sep 2023: 4 (the last batch)

    Numbers for 2021 and 2022 (3+7) are in accordance also with the table in this post: https://www.russiadefence.net/t4806p800-russian-air-force-numbers-and-procurement-plans#414367

    so we expect 4 more Su-35Ss this year

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:08 am

    owais.usmani wrote:


    Any idea what is being blurred out on the side of the fuselage right next to or below the glass canopy edge?  You can see it at the very start of the clip; a blur to cover something up.  I'm just curious as to what could be so secret to then have the need to blur it out from spying eyes.  It's on both sides of the fuselage so location is also interesting.  You can also see it on the portside @0:45.  

    Wondering if it's the serial number so that enemies don't figure out the actual count or what squadron it's going to?  Or could it be the name of the pilot?  I don't think I've ever seen any Russian fighters dawn the pilot's name and silly call sign like the US and some others do.  So I doubt it's that and I know it's not super important, just a curiosity factor on my part since the stills from the website @mack8 linked show the same aircraft without the blurring and there doesn't seem to be anything there!?

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 10413724_1000

    Nothing there?!

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 ?hash=cbfd00b3407d23a7dbe3be1473201e29


    Last edited by Gomig-21 on Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:10 am

    Plane number.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:19 am

    ALAMO wrote:Plane number.

    Is that OPSEC to keep IOC numbers unknown?

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    Post  ALAMO Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:24 am

    Back in the Soviet times misleading numbers were just a part of a game.
    Now, as the number of planes is much smaller, one must pay more attention to that.
    A number of accepted for duty hardware is not revealed since the beginning of war.

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    Post  joker88 Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:28 am

    Gomig-21 wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    Well the problem is that politicians have business interests, and also financial backers who also have business interests and of course for big business in Egypt the big players also have business interests and many of those interests will include connections and ties with the US and other economies that they can influence.

    Your politicians might dearly love to cut ties with the US because they are toxic... but when a puppet has its strings cut the first thing it does is it falls to the floor in a heap.

    Someone on the internet might see that as a necessary step to becoming a real boy, but it is not so great for the people who fall to the ground... even with the promise they can stand on their own two feet in some future date.

    The Ukraine and the UK both made the same mistake... they ignored their market and their main customers... in the case of the Ukraine they thought the west would replace the Russians as their main customers, but the west has their own engines and aircraft and they didn't want more competition, and the UK ignored or didn't think about the fact that the European market is their main market to trade.

    If and when Egypt joins BRICS and starts increasing trade with non western countries then their ability to be independent will increase, but for a politician to make decisions that will lead to serious economic damage is political suicide, and if you haven't noticed these days most don't have the honour or integrity to fall on their swords when they have been caught.

    You're absolutely right.  Sisi is an interesting individual and never shows his displeasure, even when he gets insulted by the media to the whole world like he did on 60 minutes when he got clobbered for the deaths in Tahrir Square and started sweating profusely!  It was the most embarrassing moments of his presidency and what did he do?  He asked his staff to "please ask the producer not to air that part" lol.  Of course they aired it and made a huge stink about it as if he was totally guilty of the deaths/murders.

    The other time was when that dufous Trump called him his "favorite dictator" LMFAO!  He took that one with a completely easy stride and laughed it off.

    But behind closed doors, everyone knows he is not to be messed with except those he is powerless against such as the US.  Even Biden said "no more freebies for Trump's favorite dictator" during his campaign and what did Sisi do?  Nothing!  As a matter of fact, he shook Biden's hand when they met for the first time in Saudi Arabia and said some polite greeting and that was the end of that.  Even the Crown Prince whom Biden blatantly accused of murdering Khashogshy barely shook Buden's hand and while ignoring him for most of the summit, he gave him the wicked stink-eye! lol

    Would we like to see Sisi be less of a puppet like you mentioned?  Hell yeah!  But all the reasons you mentioned for him not to be are exactly why he never will and will only choose the battles he can handily win.  Something tells me, though, he and his foreign minister could've put up a much better fight against CAATSA for the Su-35SEs than he did which is why we are most devastated about that.  They would've been the best fighters Egypt would've ever possessed and us fanboys would've been talking about them every single day!  Dammit!

    GarryB wrote:
    They will likely require modification for the VVS... much like the MiG-29SMT aircraft for Algeria needed changes too...

    What kind of modifications?  I do remember that the EAF had requested the AESA radar that is on the Su-57 along with the complimentary ones on the leading-edge flaps & wing tips.  The reason for that was because they were promised an upgrade from the doppler Zhuk-ME to the AESA Zhuk-AE on the 46 MiG-29M/M2s but the war put that on hold.  So the radar for the Su-35 was a must on the contract which BTW, I was reading some posts here that people were a bit angry because Egypt seemed to cowardly back out of the deal after all 30 aircraft were built which surprised me that they didn't know that a major deposit was paid upfront on those aircraft specifically for that reason.  Not sure what the amount was, but I think all 30 aircraft were in the vicinity of $2.5 billion.  So at least 1/3 - 1/2 of that was already paid upfront.

    And small correction on the Algerian MiG-29SMT was that when they were due for overhauls of certain systems, they found Israeli electronic parts in them and that's when they took a fit and decided that was not part of the deal, hence the change.  They should've known better (the Algerians, that is) and that it shouldn't have been such a devastating surprise.
    Do not blame your failure here on the Egyptian case
    The Egyptian deal is still there
    Do not talk about things in which you are insulted
    Whoever has something like us only speaks
    I see that you cry a lot. Is this because of your difficult situation? I pity you
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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:31 pm

    Do not blame your failure here on the Egyptian case
    The Egyptian deal is still there

    There has been no official statement regarding the cancellation of the purchase, but pressure from the US is intense so I rather think the deal is not cancelled simply because if they did cancel it they would say so because that would get the US off their back even if it would disappoint the Russians I am pretty sure the Russians understand the position Egypt is in.

    The US are nasty vindictive bastards so you need to be very careful when you go up against them because they have lots of strings to pull and lots of allies who are your enemies that can do nasty things too.

    They have no morals or ethics and will happily block your access to medicine or food or a range of other things and watch your cancer patients die or your children die.

    Madeline Allbright was interviewed about the 600K Iraqi children that died because of US sanctions and she just brushed it off as a necessary thing to ensure continued US access to Iraqi oil.

    This is the sort of scum Egypt and the world is dealing with.

    It is not like any one else in the US jumped up and down and said that was terrible... no major politician gave a crap.

    They are all bastards.

    But it is important to keep your head down and avoid the attention of such bastards so they may have put delivery on hold for a period and later when something else is upsetting the US they can get delivery of their new aircraft.

    Do not talk about things in which you are insulted

    It is people who don't say they are annoyed at the horrible double standard from the US... free market.... democracy all that bullshit they talk about being important and completely ignore or openly break the rules of in their own international dealings, that are enabling them to simply continue doing so.

    Something new is happening though... countries in Africa and Asia are calling the west out for their bullshit and turning to Russia and China and BRICS for an alternative that can supply the technology they need and the skills they need and the money and support and development their countries need to grow and develop and get to where many western countries have been for such a long time on the theft from the rest of the world.

    Africa doesn't want to become a colonial power and a thief... they want a comfortable living and lifestyle by earning it through honest labour and fair prices for their products and raw materials.

    I see that you cry a lot. Is this because of your difficult situation? I pity you

    That is just rude.

    Unlike some who do cry a lot here, when an Orc attack is successful... or just appears to be successful... they demand this person and that person be fired because obviously they should be able to anticipate anything their enemy might be doing against any and every Russian target... those people deserve a bit of a slap because they are hysterical children who don't seem to understand the real world.

    Gomig-21 on the other hand was excited by Egypt getting Su-35s and all the delays and talk of US sanctions and CAASTA has led him to think it is not going to happen... well I can't say categorically that he is wrong... can you?

    But even if it was cancelled then it is only a matter of time before they do order aircraft because it would be silly thinking America will sell them decent aircraft any time soon or even at a reasonable price. US aircraft and weapons are extortion. A protection racket where the actual protection is a promise... you can bet Kiev thought the US would come roaring in to save them or at least fast track them into HATO to protect them from the Russians, but after spending the better part of a decade goading Kiev to poke the bear, a year and a half ago the bear responded and the US and HATO have not helped at all. In fact their ammo and weapon and money deliveries have only prolonged the attack and made the damage the Bear is causing rather a lot worse that it would have been.


    And small correction on the Algerian MiG-29SMT was that when they were due for overhauls of certain systems, they found Israeli electronic parts in them and that's when they took a fit and decided that was not part of the deal, hence the change. They should've known better (the Algerians, that is) and that it shouldn't have been such a devastating surprise.

    That is interesting... the story I read was that they claimed they were expecting brand new build fuselages, but the airframes they got had been sitting in a factory for a while... they hadn't been used, but were not brand new production... which I thought was rather petty.

    Of course the real reason they rejected them was because Sukhoi offered to sell to them Su-30s for the same purchase price, so any technical reason to reject the MiGs had to be found...

    Ironic because the MiG-29SMT was supposed to be cheaper to operate than the larger Flanker family, so you could operate larger numbers of them without it costing too much... over the life of a military aircraft like a fighter you are probably looking at doubling or tripling the purchase price in terms of operational costs and of course upgrades and improvements which can include new radar and engines etc etc etc, so the Su-30 will be rather more expensive to own than the MiG.

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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  Gomig-21 Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:There has been no official statement regarding the cancellation of the purchase, but pressure from the US is intense so I rather think the deal is not cancelled simply because if they did cancel it they would say so because that would get the US off their back even if it would disappoint the Russians I am pretty sure the Russians understand the position Egypt is in.

    Unfortunately the EGY gov. doesn't make those official statements or announcements, particularly with acquisitions and specifically Russian ones.  That's one of those misconceptions that they perform the standard announcements or press releases or even updates etc.  The only time they'll do that is if the supplier insists on having an induction ceremony, then that's what they do.  Case in point almost all the French equipment, from the Rafales to the frigates and corvettes were put through major induction ceremonies.

    With Russia, it's the complete opposite.  Not only is it not announced let alone ceremoniously inducted, but they're hidden or kept quiet.  Case in point all the new BUK & TOR SAM systems as well as the S-300VM which eventually were leaked out or exhibited at exercises and made to be guessed on when they were acquired.  The TORs & BUKs were in operational service for at least 2 years before anyone noticed them hahaha!

    The EAD purchased both of the huge radar complexes in the Protivnik GE and Resonance SE.  The latter was completely unknown, and the former was barely noticed by the news during one of the parades!  A picture was taken of the GE and posted in the news and that was how we all found out about it loool.  Then eventually the Resonance SE was revealed.   

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    This is how and what they do when it comes to Russian purchases and the reason for this is quite simply known.  It's not so difficult to face the fact that Egypt plays both sides of the coin and rightfully so.  It has to maintain its friendship with the US and it wants to be able to purchase certain Russian platforms as well.  Having your cake and eating it too is what they usually say about things like this, but in this case, it's more like trying to mix oil with water.

    The threat of CAATSA specifically on the purchase of the Su-35s is not to be taken lightly like you said.  These sanctions could easily cripple an already sensitive and rapidly growing economy that's currently exacerbated by inflation.  105 million people not being held hostage, or the military getting their 30 Su-35s?  And to think the deal is still in play begs the question - what the hell is going to change in terms of the threat of the sanctions in let's say 1 year, 2 years or even 5 years down the road?  Nothing.  So the notion that these things are still in play is noble and hopeful, but unrealistic TBH.

    GarryB wrote:The US are nasty vindictive bastards so you need to be very careful when you go up against them because they have lots of strings to pull and lots of allies who are your enemies that can do nasty things too

    That's exactly right and it has no qualms about destroying whatever it can to exercise its disdain for Russia.  Egypt's place with the US is incomparable to the UK or Israel for that matter.  There are some strategic benefits to the US for maintaining a positive relationship with the matriarch of the Arab world, but not at the cost of the ultimate world order!  

    Funny thing is these are negotiable conditions the US sets forth (offering the F-15s in return) but think of the power it has to be able to initiate such policies as brutal as sanctions on an entire, sovereign nation in the first place!  If it can perpetuate such policies to begin with, think of the extent of the actual punishment it could easily afford.

    GarryB wrote:They have no morals or ethics and will happily block your access to medicine or food or a range of other things and watch your cancer patients die or your children die.

    Madeline Allbright was interviewed about the 600K Iraqi children that died because of US sanctions and she just brushed it off as a necessary thing to ensure continued US access to Iraqi oil.

    I remember that very well.  And here's the other thing that never gets considered when certain individuals get all butt-hurt from their obtuse national pride getting poked is look what happened to our next door neighbor to the west.  Now with Egypt joining BRICS, it opens up another threat for the west and its supposed belligerent policing of the world.  That move has already marked Egypt in a certain way and could easily complicate things moving forward.

    Sisi has done an AMAZING job all things considered.  Putting aside all the positive and successful local endeavors he's helped create and put into place, but just looking at the military acquisitions he's pulled off in the past 10 years only are phenomenal!  Practically half or more of the entire air force & navy were modernized and local industries have gotten huge developmental boosts and during that time, he's been able to acquire large and potent military assets from Russia.  46 Ka-52s, 46+ MiG-29M/M2, S-300VM, TORM2s & BUKs and even negotiated the two mistrals originally intended for Moscow.  He's even helped the military schedule regular armored, infantry & special forces training exercises with Russian counterparts.

    So it's not some huge national shame that he was smart enough not to push the Su-35 deal at the very expensive cost of crippling sanctions.  Crazy.

    Do not talk about things in which you are insulted

    lmaaaoooo.  Google Translate doesn't do certain languages justice.
    Nothing but a donkey braying.

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    GarryB wrote:That is just rude.

    Thank you for dealing with this.  I would apologize to you but I'm sure you would agree I have nothing to do with that emotional brain farting donkey braying.  Still, I am sorry you have to deal with such scuzzy behavior.  This is the 2nd uncalled filthy outburst from that individual.

    GarryB wrote:Gomig-21 on the other hand was excited by Egypt getting Su-35s and all the delays and talk of US sanctions and CAASTA has led him to think it is not going to happen... well I can't say categorically that he is wrong... can you?

    Man, I was so excited you're 100% on the money and it wasn't really hard to tell, right? lool I mean look at all my posts on this and other threads and rightfully so.  China came out and bought 24 (or was it 36?) to add to their killer fleet of Su-27s, Su-30s J-11s and J-16s and when it was revealed that the EAF had ordered the beastmode, we were all in seventh heaven.  Thinking how potent the air force would be, how well the MiG-29Ms would complement the Su-35s and how it would actually create a 2nd air force within the EAF.  Who in their right minds wouldn't be excited about that?  But I don't allow that to influence my sense of reality!

    GarryB wrote:But even if it was cancelled then it is only a matter of time before they do order aircraft because it would be silly thinking America will sell them decent aircraft any time soon or even at a reasonable price. US aircraft and weapons are extortion.

    That was the other exciting aspect of the Su-35 joining the Egyptian air force.  In many ways, it would've solidified the direction they were going in as far as what you're alluding to - what's the next step?  And by the initial MiG purchase, followed by an Su-35S purchase, it must be the Su-57 (or maybe even the 75) that they're quite possibly thinking of.  Talk about exciting!  That gave us great points of discussion and predictions and so on.  But with the order pretty much kiobached, Egypt joining BRICS and the reality of possible sanctions, I worry that the path is going to be a little bumpy to say the least.  Not sure how they could go back to the deal and not risk the consequences.

    Can we imagine something like this?

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    Couldn't imagine.  5 squadrons of MiG-29Ms and 35s, 5 squadrons of Su-35SEs and another 5 of Su-57s.  Unfortunately, I think the only place in the Arab world that beast is headed to is Algeria.  Hope I am as wrong as hell!

    GarryB wrote:A protection racket where the actual protection is a promise... you can bet Kiev thought the US would come roaring in to save them or at least fast track them into HATO to protect them from the Russians, but after spending the better part of a decade goading Kiev to poke the bear, a year and a half ago the bear responded and the US and HATO have not helped at all.

    You bring up another good point - what about the payback that could be coming in whatever form of punishment for President Sisi refusing to send military aid to the Ukraine?  Do we think that's going to be brushed under the rug?  They've already started by rehashing the human rights excuse and withholding $300 million from the military aid which most of us wish the EGY gov. would simply get rid of that to lessen those crippling conditions. But $1.2 billion is a lot of free military so it's not surprising that they're not giving it up anytime soon.  But it will always have its drawbacks.  

    GarryB wrote:That is interesting... the story I read was that they claimed they were expecting brand new build fuselages, but the airframes they got had been sitting in a factory for a while... they hadn't been used, but were not brand new production... which I thought was rather petty.

    My bad!  You're 100% correct about that.  I confused the two.  It was the Su-30MKAs (and not the MiG-29SMTs) that at some point was scheduled for either engine overhaul or some major maintenance process that needed them to open it all up and in places they never needed to before and that was when they discovered certain Israeli parts and weren't happy about it.  They should've known IMO.  You're not a huge military like the Algerian one and not study everything about one of the best fighters out there that you're going to be purchasing for $60+ million a piece.  It was a bit surprising that they were surprised lol.

    This thing is so hot from any angle.

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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  Isos Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:11 pm

    Both Algeria and Egypt are huge and have lot of issues with neighbours.

    They should both buy at least 50 su-57 and a bunch of mig-29.

    Maybe a good thing would be an industrial partnership to assemble locally the su-75. This way it creates jobs, allows integration of homemade weapons, and they would have local maintenance centers for the most used parts. One big issue of have foreign aircraft is you need to send them back for maintenace which takes time.

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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  GarryB Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:24 am

    Unfortunately the EGY gov. doesn't make those official statements or announcements, particularly with acquisitions and specifically Russian ones.

    When you western trade partners are pissy and vindictive I can kinda understand that really.

    Having your cake and eating it too is what they usually say about things like this, but in this case, it's more like trying to mix oil with water.

    If the US were more honourable then they wouldn't need to, but they are children so you have to be careful what you say.

    The threat of CAATSA specifically on the purchase of the Su-35s is not to be taken lightly like you said. These sanctions could easily cripple an already sensitive and rapidly growing economy that's currently exacerbated by inflation.

    The core problem is that for your long term future you are better off not just with Russia but with all of BRICS who wont treat you like crap like the US does... they are happy to destroy a countries economy with economic sanctions just to get rid of a government that is not their bitch, and they will groom another leader they can control and do everything they can to get them elected and they have lots of money.

    No point taking a stand against the US if they damage your country and put you out of power to be replaced by someone who will be their real bitch whore and sell your country for a few pieces of silver.

    Better to pretend and appear to be friendly and take the abuse without committing to the gang while working on BRICS and diversifying your economy so that any attack they try is not as devastating as they think... it is actually what Russia has been doing the last 20 years except I think if the west had wanted to be genuine friends they would have been happy with that too.

    They are not anyones friends though, they are incapable of seeing anyone as anything other than something they can use at the moment... and if someone is more useful you will be discarded.

    105 million people not being held hostage, or the military getting their 30 Su-35s? And to think the deal is still in play begs the question - what the hell is going to change in terms of the threat of the sanctions in let's say 1 year, 2 years or even 5 years down the road? Nothing.

    As the US economy gets worse and the American people realise the current system really helps the very wealthy and makes it hard for everyone else that their might be changes... not to mention the rest of the world turning against the US dollar and the further expansion of BRICS they might start getting a bit more desperate and "flexible". When countries start ganging up together in the Middle East but not with the US and Israel I think they will appreciate your "neutrality" a bit more even if you don't buy their weapons so much.

    Remember their desperate need to pit India against China means they don't care what India buys from Russia, and I think as things change in the Middle East they might appreciate Egypt a bit more.

    So the notion that these things are still in play is noble and hopeful, but unrealistic TBH.

    I would count against that with the suck up rule. If it has been cancelled then why not openly admit it and get all the rewards from the US for being such a loyal little bitch?

    The fact that they haven't called it cancelled suggests to me that it is not because they really don't benefit if it is cancelled by keeping that secret.

    If it can perpetuate such policies to begin with, think of the extent of the actual punishment it could easily afford.

    I agree that their attitude and behaviour means Egypt needs to find a way to leave their orbit and go out on your own, but in terms of economics right now the entire west could damage Egypt economically... you need to wait for a split between Europe and the US and play them off against each other perhaps. You will have a say in African issues but I think not being seen as part of the EU or US team will do you the most good in terms of your relations with your fellow regional neighbours in Africa and Asia.

    You early entry into BRICS shows that Russia and China and the other BRICS countries see your importance in terms of shipping and trade routes, and I would hope that will allow you to rapidly expand your trade, not just with the BRICS countries but all the other countries wanting to join BRICS too... this is a huge opportunity.

    And here's the other thing that never gets considered when certain individuals get all butt-hurt from their obtuse national pride getting poked is look what happened to our next door neighbor to the west.

    They destroyed Libya as a functioning country and doomed the population to endless war and poverty... was going to say despite the riches of the country but really it is because of the riches of the country that it was destroyed...

    That move has already marked Egypt in a certain way and could easily complicate things moving forward.

    Which makes shifting away from western control even more urgent and valuable to your country just to protect yourself from their sanctions and abuse.

    So it's not some huge national shame that he was smart enough not to push the Su-35 deal at the very expensive cost of crippling sanctions. Crazy.

    I would ask if he was so weak as to break the contract for the Su-35s would Russia trust Egypt enough to agree to ask it to join BRICS?

    I mean if Russia does not trust Egypt, would it trust Egypt inside BRICS where it could do damage?

    Who in their right minds wouldn't be excited about that? But I don't allow that to influence my sense of reality!

    They would be a good compliment to your other aircraft, and they would make sense to have them there.

    Not sure how they could go back to the deal and not risk the consequences.

    I think Russia might want to make as many Su-57s for itself as it can, but the Su-75 is designed for export and is intended to be affordable to buy and also affordable to operate... two critical things that the west forgets... having a 150 million dollar plane that costs 80K per hour in operational costs... who can afford that?

    A 40 million dollar plane that costs 6 or 7K per hour operation and you can buy 500 of the damn things and patrol your airspace properly and still have money left.

    This thing is so hot from any angle.

    I remember in the early 1980s when we got our first glimpses of the MiG-29 and then the Su-27 and OMG... it was so different from the metal tubes with wings that the MiG-21 and Su-17 were... the curves, but then the fitting was terrible for the MiGs because it could be... there were gaps between the outer panels you could get your finger into, but it didn't matter because RCS wasn't a thing and it had internal fuel tanks rather than the outer skin being the fuel containers like they do with the new MiGs and with the Flankers.

    Now I look back and find the older aircraft more interesting than I did before... they seemed boring but not now that I understand the reasons for the shapes and designs.... the evolutions of the wings like the straight wing of the MiG-3 and then as jet engines pushed up speeds to the speed of sound the swept wing of the MiG-15, and then the more swept wing of the MiG-17 and the delta wing of the MiG-21, but as runways got longer and longer they looked at lift jets and swing wings so the MiG-23 and MiG-21, or the planes that just used really long runways like the MiG-25 and MiG-31, but then came the lifting bodies and more sophisticated wing design that allowed shorter runways and mach 2 plus speeds with the MiG-29 and Su-27... I am looking forward to see the MiG-41s wing shape...

    Maybe a good thing would be an industrial partnership to assemble locally the su-75. This way it creates jobs, allows integration of homemade weapons, and they would have local maintenance centers for the most used parts. One big issue of have foreign aircraft is you need to send them back for maintenace which takes time.

    Become a production and maintenance hub for the Su-75... an affordable light 5th gen fighter would be popular in Africa and South Africa would probably be keen to set up something similar at the other end of Africa too...

    The important thing is to pick things you need a lot of for local production.

    Producing Su-57 would be very expensive and how many would you need to make... you would need to make thousands for it to be cost effective while with Su-75 you could probably buy 200-300 for yourself without it costing more than 100 F-35s to buy and to operate.

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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Oct 03, 2023 12:23 pm

    A couple of the latest brand spanking new Su-35Ss.

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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Oct 03, 2023 12:39 pm

    Nice seeing these bad boys loaded up.
    From @GuyPlopsky
    VKS Su-35S, possibly B/N "10" Red (RF-95910) assigned to the 23rd IAP, departing Belbek air base, Crimea, on a combined CAP/SEAD sortie armed with two R-37Ms, two R-77-1s, two R-73/74Ms and a single Kh-31PM.  
    Looks like it might even have at least 5 more open stations.

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