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    Su-35S: News #2

    Gomig-21
    Gomig-21


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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:56 pm

    GarryB wrote:The core problem is that for your long term future you are better off not just with Russia but with all of BRICS who wont treat you like crap like the US does...

    Funny you mentioned that.  From the latest interest in really starting a serious ToT fighter program in Egypt, it received several offers from South Korea, China and India.  By the looks of the several meetings and news releases, the Tejas might just be the one that kicks things off.  India has made excellent offers and the EAF just has to agree on a large batch of aircraft and have the finances all sorted out.  We'll see how that develops.

    GarryB wrote:I would count against that with the suck up rule. If it has been cancelled then why not openly admit it and get all the rewards from the US for being such a loyal little bitch?

    Because it's less obvious and detracts from severe criticism.  By keeping it hanging & dangling in the balance, it does exactly what we're witnessing on this thread.  "Some" people are influenced by the fact that it wasn't officially announced so automatically assume it's only on hold and will eventually happen.
    It lessens the criticism that they caved in or conceded.  It "saves face", so to speak.

    Eventually it will be realized but by then, time will have cured or at least tempered any criticism.

    The only time they would actually come out and say "we backed out of the Su-35S deal" is possibly at the announcement of a new aircraft acquisition.  If the F-15s show up, they could very well come out and say they decided to go with the F-15 instead of the Su-35 and list all sorts of reasons.  By then it'll be too obvious anyway.

    GarryB wrote:The fact that they haven't called it cancelled suggests to me that it is not because they really don't benefit if it is cancelled by keeping that secret.

    scratch You lost me there LOL! dunno

    GarryB wrote:I would ask if he was so weak as to break the contract for the Su-35s would Russia trust Egypt enough to agree to ask it to join BRICS?

    I think there's a strong and deep-rooted understanding between Putin & Sisi that this is a difficult position for the latter to be in and the former understands the decision made.  There's way too much history and dealings between the two for even something of this caliber to detract from any goodwill that is there.  

    Hey, Russia is currently building Egypt's first nuclear reactor in Dabaa.  This is only the 2nd in all of Africa and is a big deal.  There's so much other stuff the two countries are cooperating together with that even something as big as this Su-35 deal getting kiobashed wouldn't affect the profound friendship that exists.

    I also would strongly think that there was a monetary exchange and that it's not like Russia went ahead and assembled 30 Su-35s on the cuff.  I'm guessing there was a relatively substantial deposit paid upfront to initiate the contract.  Not that 1/3 or maybe even 1/2 of the total payment would be an even swap, but it's still most likely sufficient to have to deal with the headache of keeping the aircraft in storage and trying to unload them to another air force.  Then Russia could get full payment and make out even better with full payment plus the deposit. cheers

    The challenge for Egypt is what now?  How the heck is the EAF supposed to move forward with its heavy fighter and 5th gen requirements?    

    GarryB wrote:I think Russia might want to make as many Su-57s for itself as it can, but the Su-75 is designed for export and is intended to be affordable to buy and also affordable to operate... two critical things that the west forgets... having a 150 million dollar plane that costs 80K per hour in operational costs... who can afford that?

    A 40 million dollar plane that costs 6 or 7K per hour operation and you can buy 500 of the damn things and patrol your airspace properly and still have money left.

    Yup.  The entire western border with Libya, the entire southern border with Sudan and the entire eastern shoreline with the Red Sea + Sinai and the entire northern coast on the Mediterranean Sea is the perfect terrain for an aircraft like the Su-35S.  There couldn't be a better match IMO and not for the simple fact that its a beast that's perfectly suited for that role (being able to not only carry a lot of lethality but tons of fuel without the need for fuel tanks) but that it was part of a larger plan to integrate with the MiG-29s (and additional MiG-35s) to specifically work with a designated Russian-built radar and SAM system network.  The EADS has invested and built a major radar & air defense network for the entire country with the Su-35S being an intricate part of that network.

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 Eg-map

    That's roughly 3,000 + kilometers.  Can't put the F-15 in there.  When you have roughly 80% of your ADS made up of Russian SAMs & radars and newly built mega ground control centers, the plan was obvious to see.  Now there's a major void that they're going to have to address at some point soon.

    This role used to be shared by the F-16s (a big reason why their numbers are high) and MiG-21s to a certain extent as well as the F-7 AIRGUARD.  The latter was relegated mostly to the Red Sea sector.  Point being, that was getting a major uplift with the Su-35s & MiG-29Ms.

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 1998429

    At one point the EAF was operating 500 MIG-21s, 150 of those F-7s and 119 Mirage-5.  All of those are pretty much retired and the plan was to start the 52 MiG-29M/M2s with the 30 Su-35Ss to inherit that role with the help of the F-16s and even Rafales until the MiG & Sukhoi numbers are increased.

    So were the number of airbases which were going to double from the current 20 to 40.  Not all the current ones are showing on this map.  A few more have been built since this was drawn.

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 R.5b5b490a4256bcbaec2bf433353a99be?rik=LeXd1A5wi9WtDA&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.oocities.org%2fegyptianairforce%2fegmilmap   

    GarryB wrote:I remember in the early 1980s when we got our first glimpses of the MiG-29 and then the Su-27 and OMG... it was so different from the metal tubes with wings that the MiG-21 and Su-17 were... the curves, but then the fitting was terrible for the MiGs because it could be... there were gaps between the outer panels you could get your finger into, but it didn't matter because RCS wasn't a thing and it had internal fuel tanks rather than the outer skin being the fuel containers like they do with the new MiGs and with the Flankers.

    Now I look back and find the older aircraft more interesting than I did before... they seemed boring but not now that I understand the reasons for the shapes and designs.... the evolutions of the wings like the straight wing of the MiG-3 and then as jet engines pushed up speeds to the speed of sound the swept wing of the MiG-15, and then the more swept wing of the MiG-17 and the delta wing of the MiG-21, but as runways got longer and longer they looked at lift jets and swing wings so the MiG-23 and MiG-21, or the planes that just used really long runways like the MiG-25 and MiG-31, but then came the lifting bodies and more sophisticated wing design that allowed shorter runways and mach 2 plus speeds with the MiG-29 and Su-27... I am looking forward to see the MiG-41s wing shape...

    That kinda nostalgia is reserved for us ol' geezer...I mean us ol' timers. respekt

    GarryB wrote:Maybe a good thing would be an industrial partnership to assemble locally the su-75. This way it creates jobs, allows integration of homemade weapons, and they would have local maintenance centers for the most used parts. One big issue of have foreign aircraft is you need to send them back for maintenace which takes time.

    Become a production and maintenance hub for the Su-75... an affordable light 5th gen fighter would be popular in Africa and South Africa would probably be keen to set up something similar at the other end of Africa too...

    The important thing is to pick things you need a lot of for local production.

    Like I mentioned, it appears that the Tejas is the front-runner for that endeavor ATM but you never know.  Stranger things have happened, and I wouldn't be surprised in China jumps into the fray as well.  Apparently Egypt was offered the the J-10C/D or the FC-35 which is slated to enter production in 2024 and IOC in China by 2025.  Not a big fan of introducing another significant platform from a different origin.  Right now (and the planned route) was to have a balance between two platform origins.  The western ones (F-16s, Rafales) and Russian ones (MiG-29/35, Su-35s) and the trainers/attack/light combat could be others.

    Here's a question for you or anyone interested - what happens to the Su-35S now?  Is Russia marketing it to certain countries?  With the introduction of the Su-57 and likely demands for that besides the VKS, it will be most likely dominating the production lines and so where does the Su-35S go from here?[/quote]

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    lancelot
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    Post  lancelot Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:17 pm

    Gomig-21 wrote:what happens to the Su-35S now?  Is Russia marketing it to certain countries?  With the introduction of the Su-57 and likely demands for that besides the VKS, it will be most likely dominating the production lines and so where does the Su-35S go from here?
    There is still a large amount of Su-35s which remain to be built on contracts with the VKS. Plus there are new VKS units being started up which will require new aircraft. It remains to be seen if they will increase the Su-57 orders further and switch to it or not. It could be that the new units will be 50% Su-57 and 50% Su-35.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 05, 2023 5:04 am

    By the looks of the several meetings and news releases, the Tejas might just be the one that kicks things off. India has made excellent offers and the EAF just has to agree on a large batch of aircraft and have the finances all sorted out. We'll see how that develops.

    Does Tegas still use that American jet engine?

    It lessens the criticism that they caved in or conceded. It "saves face", so to speak.

    The fact that they are hiding that they are buying them suggests a loss of face... why should Egypt have to hide the fact that it has bought some fighter jets... are they children that need the permission of others?

    The only time they would actually come out and say "we backed out of the Su-35S deal" is possibly at the announcement of a new aircraft acquisition.

    But if they cancelled then Russia will know. The fact that the Egyptian people don't know is not really important moving forwards because if Egypt is not an independent country then why would Russia put any trust in them as an independent country... Egypt would just be another vassal state to the US like EU states and western states, and of course they will trade, but they will be careful with their trust and investments because the US might decide to take it all away at any time so it creates uncertainty.

    Of course there is uncertainty with a sovereign country too but US interests seem to be aimed at damaging Russia which makes them a bit toxic.

    Egypt might have interests that don't sit well with Russian interests but are unlikely to actually fully work against them just out of spite like western vassal wont to do.

    You lost me there LOL!

    Sorry, not clear.

    Basically saying they don't benefit from it being cancelled and not announcing that, because if it is cancelled Russia would already know so who are they hiding the secret from?

    If it isn't cancelled and just delayed then they are not hiding the cancellation, they are hiding the delay, which is reasonable.

    Hey, Russia is currently building Egypt's first nuclear reactor in Dabaa.

    And what if Trump gets into power and demands Egypt stop that project with Russia and let an American company finish that or all spare parts for your American weapons will be sanctioned and all military aid cut?

    I agree that Russia would continue to trade with Egypt, but it isn't Russia that is the loose cannon thinking the American century is going to end...

    There's so much other stuff the two countries are cooperating together with that even something as big as this Su-35 deal getting kiobashed wouldn't affect the profound friendship that exists.

    But if the US thinks CAASTA succeeded in breaking the Su-35 deal then the obvious next step for them is to extend it to include energy and all sorts of other things... when is Egypt going to say enough is enough and that US laws don't apply to Egyptian relations with countries that are not the US.

    The challenge for Egypt is what now? How the heck is the EAF supposed to move forward with its heavy fighter and 5th gen requirements?

    They can sort the money out later, that will be in the contract, the real question is how is Egypt going to buy 5th gen Russian fighters when they can't even buy Su-35s?

    Here's a question for you or anyone interested - what happens to the Su-35S now? Is Russia marketing it to certain countries? With the introduction of the Su-57 and likely demands for that besides the VKS, it will be most likely dominating the production lines and so where does the Su-35S go from here?

    There are plenty of countries interested in Su-35s and that includes Russia, it is a very good aircraft that can perform a wide range of roles with a wide range of ordinance and equipment and as time goes on it is just going to get better.

    The US decided on an all stealth fleet with the F-22 to replace the F-15 and the F-35 to replace everything else... F-16, F-18, and AV-8 models, but the costs and problems means they wont be making any more F-22s and it looks like problems with the F-35 will require restarting production of F-15s and F-16s, which is really not ideal.

    Russia never had the goal for an all stealth fleet and while they seem to have neglected the MiG-35 a bit the Su-35 and Su-30 and Su-57 are going to be produced in reasonable numbers to create the core of their air fleet. For a lighter numbers aircraft there already is the MiG-35 and soon there will be Checkmate and the MiG equivalent though I suspect the Checkmate will be mostly for export. They also have the S-70 wingman type drones that can also multiply the number of missiles and sensors in the air at one time.

    They just need to work out what makes sense... big capable fighters have always made sense, but if you have stealthy ones do you still need non stealthy ones?

    Equally when it comes to light numbers aircraft can a stealthy aircraft be made affordable enough to actually qualify as a numbers aircraft and that is the challenge MiG and Sukhoi have to deal with.

    It might turn out that Checkmate or the MiG type might be similar in price to buy and operate to the MiG-35, in which case you would have to ask what purpose does the MiG-35 serve.

    If there is a price gap that is significant it might be the case that having both in service might make sense too... especially if MiG can unify the design... if their new light single engined 5th gen fighter has a 10 or 12 ton thrust light engine and a new light but capable AESA radar then fitting both of those to MiG-35s would improve commonality and improve performance etc etc though of course with external weapons the MiG-35 will never be stealthy, but sometimes that doesn't matter.

    If you want to scan airspace for targets then you are not stealthy even with all your weapons internally stowed, so a MiG-35 flying high could operate with stealthy S-70s that fly closer to the enemy and launch missiles using information from the MiG-35s sensors for example.

    The light fighter is not supposed to roam far and wide and carry more weapons than a WWII heavy bomber.... it is the numbers plane that fills in gaps in your airspace with radar and optical sensors that find enemy threats and targets and either engages them or hands them to other platforms closer or better equipped to deal with the problem.

    If big planes with lots of missiles made sense they would have the Tu-160P with a supersonic flight radius of 6 thousand kms plus and a huge nose for a massive AESA radar and two 11m long weapon bays with rotary launchers for enormous numbers of air to air missiles...

    It remains to be seen if they will increase the Su-57 orders further and switch to it or not. It could be that the new units will be 50% Su-57 and 50% Su-35.

    There will be modifications and upgrades to both aircraft based on experience in this conflict which is more valuable for planning any conflict with HATO than any previous conflict, so these changes are going to be rather useful.

    I am sure they will be able to decide if they want more Su-57s... I suspect they will, but I also think they will want more Su-30 and Su-35s because they are useful aircraft too.

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    Gomig-21
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    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2

    Post  Gomig-21 Tue Oct 10, 2023 10:19 pm

    GarryB wrote:Does Tegas still use that American jet engine?

    It does, but the plan is to eventually install the kaveri.  We'll see how that goes since everyone knows that engine technology for an aircraft is arguably the most difficult item to build from scratch.  But it seems the Indians are really putting in a valiant effort to make it work.  

    The GE engines shouldn't be an issue since they've ordered an additional 40 spares for the F-16s and the US has no problems with supplying India with them.  But I guess anything could happen, so they'll have to make adjustments if need be.  Maybe a newer version of the MK33 could be substituted.

    GarryB wrote:The fact that they are hiding that they are buying them suggests a loss of face... why should Egypt have to hide the fact that it has bought some fighter jets... are they children that need the permission of others?

    It's difficult to understand unless you live in the culture and are affected by the domestic policy challenges etc.  But there is a method to the madness, believe me.  By letting it hang means there's some hope it happens in the future and as you can see, some believe it while others don't.  I happen to be of the latter.  And this is something I certainly don't mind being proven wrong.

    Found these on another forum with compatriots lamenting the same sorrow as yours truly hahaha.

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 54519346_1170345609802898_4045171864920653824_n-jpg

    I have no idea what that fella was thinking or doing!  Crazy.

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 Egy-01-jpg

    Even the tires are shiny brand new.  Talking to a USAF pilot years ago said that he once took out an F-15 and was the one designated to deliver the aircraft and said yes, they do have that fresh, brand new smell like the familiar new car smell!

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 300717-jpg

    Colors are perfect.  Everything about this aircraft is perfect.

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 300868-jpg

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 Thumb-1920-647983-jpg

    Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 Su-27-flanker-flare-jpg

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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:01 am

    I have no idea what that fella was thinking or doing!  Crazy.

    I hope it is a speed gun and he is testing its acceleration... but he seems to be pointing it at something else... maybe there are Americans on the airfield and he doesn't trust them...


    Last edited by GarryB on Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
    Gomig-21
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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Oct 11, 2023 4:40 am

    GarryB wrote:I hope it is a speed gun and he is testing its acceleration... but he seems to be pointing it at something else... maybe there are Americans on the airfield and he doesn't trust them...

    I hadn't thought of a radar or even lidar gun. Could very well be if they make them the shape & size of a Glock like that one. I'll go back to that forum and check the other pics and see if there's anything I missed, now that you peaked my curiosity.
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    Post  lancelot Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:44 am

    The Russian Aerospace Forces received a batch of new Su-35S fighters
    10/24/2023

    Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant named after Gagarin manufactured and handed over to the Russian Ministry of Defense the next new multifunctional Su-35S fighters. The aircraft underwent a cycle of ground and flight tests in various operating modes and flew from the KnAAZ airfield to the place of duty, the press service of the United Aircraft Corporation reported.

    “This is not the last delivery of aviation systems this year,” Vladimir Artyakov, First Deputy General Director of the Rostec State Corporation, commented on the delivery of new combat vehicles to the Russian Aerospace Forces.

    Su-35 is a super-maneuverable 4++ generation fighter. The aircraft are designed to gain air supremacy and destroy ground and surface targets at any time of the day in simple and difficult weather conditions at great distances from the home airfield.

    Distinctive features of the aircraft are:

    ▪ power plant based on new engines with a digital control system and controlled thrust vector, which can significantly improve the flight performance and maneuverability of the vehicle;
    ▪ long-range information and targeting systems;
    ▪ modern communication system and high-speed information exchange both between the aircraft and ground control points, and between aircraft;
    ▪ highly effective long-range air-to-air and air-to-surface guided weapons;
    ▪ highly effective electronic countermeasures and defense system.

    “The Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant is successfully working within the framework of the state defense order and fulfills the deliveries stipulated by the contracts on schedule, meeting the needs of the Russian Aerospace Forces for modern aviation complexes,” noted Yuri Slyusar, General Director of PJSC UAC.

    Earlier, at the end of September, the UAC had already transferred the next serial fifth-generation Su-57 aircraft and Su-35S fighters to the Russian Aerospace Forces.

    https://aviation21.ru/vks-rossii-poluchili-partiyu-novyx-istrebitelej-su-35s/

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    Post  George1 Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:04 am

    lancelot wrote:
    The Russian Aerospace Forces received a batch of new Su-35S fighters
    10/24/2023

    Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant named after Gagarin manufactured and handed over to the Russian Ministry of Defense the next new multifunctional Su-35S fighters. The aircraft underwent a cycle of ground and flight tests in various operating modes and flew from the KnAAZ airfield to the place of duty, the press service of the United Aircraft Corporation reported.

    “This is not the last delivery of aviation systems this year,” Vladimir Artyakov, First Deputy General Director of the Rostec State Corporation, commented on the delivery of new combat vehicles to the Russian Aerospace Forces.

    Su-35 is a super-maneuverable 4++ generation fighter. The aircraft are designed to gain air supremacy and destroy ground and surface targets at any time of the day in simple and difficult weather conditions at great distances from the home airfield.

    Distinctive features of the aircraft are:

    ▪ power plant based on new engines with a digital control system and controlled thrust vector, which can significantly improve the flight performance and maneuverability of the vehicle;
    ▪ long-range information and targeting systems;
    ▪ modern communication system and high-speed information exchange both between the aircraft and ground control points, and between aircraft;
    ▪ highly effective long-range air-to-air and air-to-surface guided weapons;
    ▪ highly effective electronic countermeasures and defense system.

    “The Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant is successfully working within the framework of the state defense order and fulfills the deliveries stipulated by the contracts on schedule, meeting the needs of the Russian Aerospace Forces for modern aviation complexes,” noted Yuri Slyusar, General Director of PJSC UAC.

    Earlier, at the end of September, the UAC had already transferred the next serial fifth-generation Su-57 aircraft and Su-35S fighters to the Russian Aerospace Forces.

    https://aviation21.ru/vks-rossii-poluchili-partiyu-novyx-istrebitelej-su-35s/

    so 2 must have been delivered and we expect another 2 this year (12 in total for 2023)

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    Post  TMA1 Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:07 am

    Did anyone else notice the different jammer pods on the newest production examples? An iteration of khibiny?

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:58 am

    There are some other changes reported, too.
    Engine, communication, tactical awareness, and radar systems are cited to be modernized, too.

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    Post  George1 Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:54 pm

    And the bmpd article, nothing for the number of aircrafts though

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4765960.html

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    Post  George1 Thu Oct 26, 2023 11:28 pm

    Discussion about Su-35s in EAF moved here: Russia - Egypt military contracts

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun Oct 29, 2023 3:12 am

    Anyone who can't get enough of this beautiful aircraft like me, enjoy this Su-35 porn, yawza. With some MiG-31 mixed in there too. Those 35s look like they're brand spanking new the way they're super shiny clean and minty looking. All the closeup footage in the beginning doesn't even show a spec of dirt on these things. Some impeccable maintenance work being done on these bad boys.

    The landings, too nice and soft and smooth are perfectly executed including the 31s.
    Some of you have probably seen this already from a few years ago. Still fantastic.

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    Post  TMA1 Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:30 am

    aawesome video. Watch at 9:45 below the mig 31. Note the puff of black smoke. Wonder what that is about. Maybe the aux power turning off or something?

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:59 pm

    TMA1 wrote:aawesome video. Watch at 9:45 below the mig 31. Note the puff of black smoke. Wonder what that is about. Maybe the aux power turning off or something?

    I can't see it, bro.  Are you sure it's at 9:45?  Now I'm really curious.  Even if I did see it, not sure what it would be.  You could be right I honestly have no idea.  My intuition is that the APU is turned off manually by the pilot, right?  Or is it automatically turned off?  

    Considering the APU's function to provide power to the other critical systems other than the engines, I would think it needs to stay on until the aircraft is parked and all systems are shut down.  I could be wrong since there's always some deviation from conventional wisdom in everything lol.  Pls double check exact time again, I'm really interested to see what you're referring to.  

    Whenever APUs are brought up, I can't help but think of certain platforms that seem to have their APU exhausts in the worst place possible!  The soot produced from start-ups is brutal and leaves a horrible stain on the fuselage.  First one that comes to mind is the one on the Eurofighter Typhoon.  What a HORRIBLE spot to put that damn thing.  Look at this disaster!

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    I know it's probably a petty disgruntle, but it sucks.  It looks bad and when something looks bad, it leads to other unfortunate assumptions.  The other really bad one is on the German-built MEKO A200 frigate.  The APU is right on the center portside hull and leaves a brutal soot stain that completely ruins the clean appearance of the ship.  Some might think it's a silly concern, but considering how every military branch prides itself on having the best appearance in all aspects, this should be something also taken seriously from a design/engineering standpoint.  Not sure why it would be a big deal to divert the exhaust out the rear end and away from the body, just like the engine exhausts of jets and even stacks on ships.  I'm guessing it's because of an engineering code that only allows certain maximum lengths of the exhaust ducting to allow maximum airflow and least resistance.  That's the only thing I can think of on top of being limited to the placement location of the APU.

    I tried looking up the location of the APU exhaust on the Su-35S, couldn't find it.  It must be placed in a good spot since I don't see soot marks from it anywhere on the fuselage, ever.  It's evident that all Sukhois are well designed for such considerations, from the surrounding protective metal of the gun to the unpainted leading edges on the H-stabs.

    Do you know what this white circle is for?  It's on every single Su-35 in every single photo I have seen.  It must indicate something, whether an access panel or a location for a critical piece of equipment or something along those lines.  Always wondered what that was for.  

    EDIT: I found a better close-up pic of that while painted circle.  Looks like some access panel.  Could be related to the in-flight refueling probe or better yet, an access to the locking hinges to open the radome to service the radar.  Can't find any schematics on it.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:38 pm

    No fuel tanks ever needed.

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    In KDBM.

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    Post  Gomig-21 Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:14 am

    This is some serious business having the responsibility of operating this $85 million aircraft from this office.

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    I hope not to see a single one of these shot down by any Ukro F-16s. Not a single one. I'm sure Russian pilots have been training like it's no one's busy and getting all geared up for the coming aerial battles.

    Perhaps we'll also be finally seeing true BVR combat between two of the top medium range missiles on the market today. It would be quite something if the r-77-1 outmatches the AIM-120C/D. Might have to equip a few Su-35s with the R73M incase the US decides to dilly dally and surprise people by fielding the AIM-260. Then we could get some rare & great actual infield data on the effectiveness of these BVR missiles. This will be Russia's moment to shine. Gain that top spot in both those critical arenas. Show the world who's the boss and get it done with purpose. Take the opportunity and make the endeavor about marketing Russia's legendary military aviation. These opportunities don't come around often and when they do, they can make or break ya. We want the former because we have a lot of new and exciting hardware coming.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:43 am

    America wont send anything new to Ukraine... the Abrams tanks are old worn out models, the F-16s are old worn out models too... they wont risk new modern missiles... and they know any F-16s that get sent wont last very long... as shown by the sudden increase in Kievs planes being shot down recently... the Russian AF has obviously set up systems and itself to deal with enemy air power in anticipation of F-16s arriving and it seems they are ready.

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    Post  marcellogo Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:48 am

    GarryB wrote:America wont send anything new to Ukraine... the Abrams tanks are old worn out models, the F-16s are old worn out models too... they wont risk new modern missiles... and they know any F-16s that get sent wont last very long... as shown by the sudden increase in Kievs planes being shot down recently... the Russian AF has obviously set up systems and itself to deal with enemy air power in anticipation of F-16s arriving and it seems they are ready.

    Last F-16s that USAF bought for themselves were 250 Block 50/52 from 1991 to 2000 (but in reality from 1994 production went toward export and they bought just few replacement ones.

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    Post  Arrow Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:55 am

    Now they have over 600 F-35s and produce 150 of them a year. They don't need the F-16 for themselves.
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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:21 am

    27 Su-35 in Dzemgi parking, probaby could have other in Zhukovsky
    I think the total number for the Egypt contract should be 28 as the squadrons in Egypt used to be 14 single seat
    Will go this Su-35 to Iran ?
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    Last edited by AMCXXL on Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Gomig-21 Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:17 am

    GarryB wrote:America wont send anything new to Ukraine...

    True, but they won't be sending any clunkers either ma bro.  Question is, will they send ones with AESA radars? I know you & I have had our differences about the effectiveness of AESA vs PESA, so that does concern me as well.  My intentions are honest here, I only want to see the Su-35s dominate the coming A2A battle and what better opportunity than this one here. Even if they send clunkers, then it becomes an even more important 'must'. In that case, the alternative would be disastrous.

    GarryB wrote:the Abrams tanks are old worn out models, the F-16s are old worn out models too... they wont risk new modern missiles...

    You think they'll only send AIM-9s and maybe the latest Sparrows?  We're talking about the top mafia organization that has made the domination of worldly criminal hegemony legally accepted.  It also has the biggest bug up its ass about Russia than Hitler or Napolean ever had, and those guys even tried invading Russia! lol.  

    I honestly think the US will do whatever it takes to at least make Russia look bad.  I think they'll be supplying the Ukrainians with the AIM-120 at (least the C) and quite possibly the AIM-9X as well.  

    We're talking about the organization that runs billion-dollar programs to train its pilots using mimic Russian warfare tactics (including other adversaries). They've spent decades studying Russian tactics and painting their pretend-adversary aircraft in their own native camo with insignias and all. Who the hell else does that?  If that doesn't show the level of obsession they have, I don't know what does.  Heck they've even bought Su-27s for obvious reasons and have been working on that type of intel since the days of the MiG-15, followed by the MiG-21.

    I wouldn't even put it past them to have American back-seaters in the few D models they might send to 'survey' and 'ensure' certain procedures are done correctly.

    They tested the AIM-260 a year ago and bragged about how its success had not only set the world distance record for a BVR kill, but for obvious other interests as well.  Why wouldn't they make an attempt to field it in a perfect opportunity right here?  After all, this is the same entity that had the balls to send 10s of U2 spy planes over the Soviet Union to take pics from 70Kft.  I would never put anything past this jackboot thug organization lol.  

    GarryB wrote:and they know any F-16s that get sent wont last very long...

    That's what I'm saying. I hope it becomes the most dominant A2A beatdown in history.  Let's set the record; after all, there is debt that needs to be paid from the early 1970s and what happened in the Middle East over the Gulf of Suez during the war of attrition between Egypt & the criminal entity that's currently committing a historical genocide in front of the whole world, and no one is or can stop them.  Payback is a bitch and what better opportunity than this.  

    GarryB wrote:as shown by the sudden increase in Kievs planes being shot down recently...

    I mentioned I while back how it's unsettling to me, to say the least, how this war is showcasing Russian vs Russian weapons for the most part. That's what's been happening; RuAF Su-35s shooting down Ukro MiG-29s and Su-25s.  These are American F-16s coming, ma bro.  If we think they're not a threat, that's great!  I love the confidence believe me.  But let's show it.  It needs to be an undeniable domination by Russian Su-35s.

    What better opportunity could there be to showcase the prowess of the mighty Su-35?  Even to revive the MiG-35's export potential.  This is how it works.  It's not just the battlefield results, it's the potential implications for both military industrial complex's economic success.  

    GarryB wrote:the Russian AF has obviously set up systems and itself to deal with enemy air power in anticipation of F-16s arriving and it seems they are ready.

    There's an old Arabic saying "from your lips to the gates of heaven".  Used as a prayer to ask God to accept what someone wished for.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:41 am

    AMCXXL Posts : 926 Points : 926 Join date : 2017-08-08 Post n°296 Su-35S: News #2 - Page 12 Empty Re: Su-35S: News #2 Post AMCXXL Today at 12:21 am 27 Su-35 in Dzemgi parking, probaby could have other in Zhukovsky I think the total number for the Egypt contract should be 28 as the squadrons in Egypt used to be 14 single seat Will go this Su-35 to Iran ? wrote:

    Russia should currently produce Su 35S only for VKS and not for any foreign contracts. VKS needs planes

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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:30 am

    Now they have over 600 F-35s and produce 150 of them a year. They don't need the F-16 for themselves.

    Well they are talking about putting the F-16 back into production in a slightly modified form because the F-35 is too expensive and not living up to expectations...

    True, but they won't be sending any clunkers either ma bro.

    The Stingers and Javelins and other equipment captured or components recovered like HARMs etc are all ancient production stock stuff... Eastern Europe got rid of its junk and the US and western HATO partners did the same.

    The US knows no version of F-16 is going to win this for Kiev, and handing them new models risks their secrets being compromised with capture or recovery of parts.

    Question is, will they send ones with AESA radars?

    No way. Unless that is all they have, which it wont be... these wont be American F-16s that are transferred, they will be old stock crap sold to eastern european countries and shifted on as part of this scheme to upgrade and restock their armory...

    My intentions are honest here, I only want to see the Su-35s dominate the coming A2A battle and what better opportunity than this one here. Even if they send clunkers, then it becomes an even more important 'must'. In that case, the alternative would be disastrous.

    If an F-16 turns its radar on it will be located and shot from well outside the range of any defensive weapon it might be able to carry...

    Even the Americans are saying the F-16 will make no difference.

    You think they'll only send AIM-9s and maybe the latest Sparrows?

    There were very few F-16s able to carry and use Sparrows, they might include ancient model AMRAAM but it wont make a lot of difference because they need AWACS support to find their targets normally and they wont have that.

    We're talking about the top mafia organization that has made the domination of worldly criminal hegemony legally accepted. It also has the biggest bug up its ass about Russia than Hitler or Napolean ever had, and those guys even tried invading Russia! lol.

    Indeed but they don't care about Ukrainians... they are brainwashed Russians and are totally expendable... so why waste good weapons sending them to Kiev if they are just going to burn.

    It will be bad trained Ukrainians that are the problem... the western weapons are still amazing...

    I honestly think the US will do whatever it takes to at least make Russia look bad.

    Of course they will but their options and capacity to convince thinking people is limited... their own idiots will believe anything anyway.

    I think they'll be supplying the Ukrainians with the AIM-120 at (least the C) and quite possibly the AIM-9X as well.

    They wont risk AIM-9X I suspect, but very early model export AMRAAM would likely be supplied... it would be obvious they are sending them out as cannon fodder if they just supplied Lima and Mike model Sidewinders.

    Who the hell else does that? If that doesn't show the level of obsession they have, I don't know what does.

    And then when their opposing forces beat their own forces in training they make all the excuses in the world and learn nothing at all and continue with the same failed tactics.

    Don't confuse professionalism with a proclivity for dress up. What a Face

    I wouldn't even put it past them to have American back-seaters in the few D models they might send to 'survey' and 'ensure' certain procedures are done correctly.

    Two for the price of one in the crematorium is a great way to save money.

    After all, this is the same entity that had the balls to send 10s of U2 spy planes over the Soviet Union to take pics from 70Kft.

    They sent them because they thought the Soviets couldn't see them let alone reach them... they were wrong... and stopped as soon as they were stopped.

    Payback is a bitch and what better opportunity than this.

    The number of aircraft they have shot down recently it seems they have stepped up their game for the new threat and are probably quite ready to deal with it.

    What better opportunity could there be to showcase the prowess of the mighty Su-35?

    They have a job to do and that will be their focus, but the fact that their tools are working as designed and they are getting real world footage and information they can use in their glossy brochures is not a bad thing.

    Russia should currently produce Su 35S only for VKS and not for any foreign contracts. VKS needs planes

    In that role they have MiG-31s, Su-35s, Su-30s, and Su-34s with air to air capability including with R-37M long range missiles... not to mention their very long range ground launched missiles... S-300V4 and S-400. There is no shortage of launch platforms that is obvious to me.

    Regarding exports it really comes down to what Egypt wants... if they want to delay delivery then Sukhoi might charge storage and maintenance but certainly couldn't just sell them off to just anyone.

    Keep in mind that the export model Su-35 probably comes with a range of choices in some systems that includes optimisation for use within the Egyptian air defence system which would not be suitable for Iran. There might be a few things Iran wont want and things they might want that Egypt didn't.

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    Post  lancelot Sat Nov 04, 2023 11:36 am

    GarryB wrote:
    Question is, will they send ones with AESA radars?
    No way. Unless that is all they have, which it wont be... these wont be American F-16s that are transferred, they will be old stock crap sold to eastern european countries and shifted on as part of this scheme to upgrade and restock their armory...
    Actually, they might do this as well, but make sure that those aircraft won't fly close to the front. For example they might enforce a rule where they only fly those aircraft west of the Dnieper. Similar to how the Soviet Union used the MiG-15 in the Korean War.

    Gomig-21 wrote:You think they'll only send AIM-9s and maybe the latest Sparrows?
    ...
    I honestly think the US will do whatever it takes to at least make Russia look bad.  I think they'll be supplying the Ukrainians with the AIM-120 at (least the C) and quite possibly the AIM-9X as well.  
    They already are using the AIM-120 on NASAMS I think. But so far I haven't heard of the AIM-9X being sent, only the older AIM-9L. But who knows really.
    So far I have not heard of any AIM-120 being captured by the Russians but I think this is only a matter of time.

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