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    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:37 am

    Fred333 wrote:So how long does a state need to exist, or a certain population need to be present somewhere, for it to be considered legitimate?
    Turks were in Anatolia for example since 12th/13th century, don't forget Mamluks in Egypt.
    Many "Turks" now are actually descendants of Greeks/Kurds/Arabs that mixed with Central Asians, etc. But they identify as Turk, so are they legitimately there or not?
    Arabs/Berbers in Spain since 7th until expelled in 15th, yet this is still called reconquista although they were there arguably for longer in most of Iberia than the germanic tribes that settled there around the fall of the Roman Empire.
    Where do you draw the line?


    It has nothing to do with how long. It has to do with being able to protect them, otherwise the whole Azeri Charade was a moot point given Armenians have been in the Area for way longer than anything Turkic.
    The issue is that Turkey which per se is a very young state and who owes its very current existence to foreign powers being too dumb to see the danger of a sole power owning both sides of the Bosphorus.

    It was just to show the hilarousness of the Turkish claim regarding their existence.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:27 pm

    ..Turkey which per se is a very young state and who owes its very current existence to foreign powers being too dumb to see the danger of a sole power owning both sides of the Bosporus.
    the Brits didn't want Russia on both sides of the Bosporus; Bulgaria or Greece owning 1 side would create too much instability & disrupt trade.
    In the bigger scheme of things, they couldn't do much in Syria & Iraq so chose to use Turkey against Russia & Iran. In case of Turkey-Iran war, will the Iranian regime survive? Probably not.
    Armenia, Azerbaijan Try Ceasefire Again Monday
    https://eurasianet.org/third-time-unlikely-to-be-a-charm-as-armenia-and-azerbaijan-agree-to-another-ceasefire
    [tr style=][td width="230"]Fighting Continues, Baku Issues Russia Warning[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr style=][td align="center" valign="top" width="10"]2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 5 Blkbullet1 [/td]
    [td width="230"]Iran Troops Deployed on Border Near Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr style=][td align="center" valign="top" width="10"]2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 5 Blkbullet1 [/td]
    [td width="230"]Number of Armenian Troops Killed in Karabakh Conflict Rises by 36 to 963[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr style=][td align="center" valign="top" width="10"]2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 5 Blkbullet1 [/td]
    [td width="230"]US Embassy in Azerbaijan Warns of Possible Terror Attacks, Kidnappings[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr style=][td align="center" valign="top" width="10"]2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 5 Blkbullet1 [/td]
    [td width="230"]Israel Ships Humanitarian Aid to Azerbaijan Amid Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict[/td]
    [/tr]


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add link)
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:06 pm

    Anatomy of a """Turkish""" drone:
    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 5 ElP3pLRX0AAsg6L?format=jpg&name=small
    https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320671407353827330/photo/1

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    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:26 pm



    https://youtu.be/NOnRspoLPt8?t=545
    Stealthflanker
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    Post  Stealthflanker Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:37 pm

    I'm curious if Armenia have access to any form of airborne electronic reconnaissance equipment. Azerbaijan have Heron drones from Israel which allows it to monitor radar activities across Armenia.

    Having such asset would allow Armenia to actually put the Tochka and Iskander (if Russia Allows) into much better use. Blowing the Drone controls


    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 5 Harop-VS-Iskander-coverage

    Above is the coverage of Iskander system (280 km). As seen it easily covers the entire of NK. The yellow circle is coverage of IAI Harop's ground control center (200 km).

    Tochka is shorter but considering there is about 40 of them in posession of Armenia. I think they can hit more sites

    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 5 Armenia-Tochka-U
    Isos
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:05 pm

    Russia and France probably monitor the area with satellites to counter turks and give them data about azeri equipment.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:06 pm

    Russia knocking Turkish drones from Armenian skies
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    Post  Isos Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:09 pm

    Armenia can now buy weapons from Iran. Drones and BM and will be a reliable supplier.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:12 pm

    While their common border in Azeri hands?
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:27 pm

    Megrhi borders Iran and is of Armenia proper
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:30 pm

    Turkey may close that corridor soon.
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    Post  miketheterrible Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:31 pm

    They would have to invade Armenia sparking CSTO to get involved. Since they didn't declare war on Armenia, you are assuming too much at the moment.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:53 pm

    Yes, but if Turkey get directly involved in NK & Armenia &/ Iran retaliates in some way, Erdogan may try to cut their border off. Armenia won't be able to use Iranian systems right away. Time will tell!
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:10 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:They would have to invade Armenia sparking CSTO to get involved. Since they didn't declare war on Armenia, you are assuming too much at the moment.

    They literally are showing pictures of the S-300PS strikes in Kaghnut IN ARMENIA. It's like a fully blown act of war. With a TSK wrap on it.


    https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320814529455030272?s=20

    Syrians got nabbed.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:22 pm

    All of Pussyninnyan's personnel should be sacked, but this one of the first positive measures being taken.

    Armenian President Armen Sarkissian has dismissed the commander of the country's Border troops, Vaginak Sargsian
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:12 pm

    They should bring Arkady Ter-Tadevosyan out of retirement as well.
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:27 pm

    Azeris lost the 1st round: https://vz.ru/world/2020/10/26/1067229.html

    Anti-Turkish coalition is forming: https://vz.ru/world/2020/10/26/1067423.html
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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:19 pm


    Looks like home stretch is rapidly approaching:

    https://twitter.com/MiddleEastWatc1/status/1320754510634098691

    Breaking:-Armenian President:
    “We are ready for mutual concessions and even concessions that may be painful for us, but the Armenian people will never be ready to surrender.”

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:01 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:They would have to invade Armenia sparking CSTO to get involved. Since they didn't declare war on Armenia, you are assuming too much at the moment.

    They literally are showing pictures of the S-300PS strikes in Kaghnut IN ARMENIA. It's like a fully blown act of war. With a TSK wrap on it.


    https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320814529455030272?s=20

    Syrians got nabbed.

    Tweet unavailable.

    Got any real sources?
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:02 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:They would have to invade Armenia sparking CSTO to get involved. Since they didn't declare war on Armenia, you are assuming too much at the moment.

    They literally are showing pictures of the S-300PS strikes in Kaghnut IN ARMENIA. It's like a fully blown act of war. With a TSK wrap on it.


    https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320814529455030272?s=20

    Syrians got nabbed.

    Tweet unavailable.

    Got any real sources?

    https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1320582686868733953?s=20

    As à matter of fact I do...

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:25 am

    Nice Armenians !!! In the middle of the war they don't even activate their S-300. Are they waiting for alliens to use them ?

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    medo
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    Post  medo Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:50 am

    Isos wrote:Nice Armenians !!! In the middle of the war they don't even activate their S-300. Are they waiting for alliens to use them ?

    Armenians have a big problem with a name Nikol Pashinyan. He is sabotaging defense with orders not to fire and not to response to attacks. He is stoling money and hide all equipment which was send by Armenian diaspora to help army in Artzakh. President of Artzakh realize this and now he contact Putin dirrectly and not Pashinyan. There was some infos, which could be correct, that those ballistic missiles and drones shot down in front of Erevan were actually shot down by Russian S-300V and not by Armenian S-300PS. Russians see by vectors, that they also fly against the base so they didn't risk and shot them down. Armenia till now didn't launch one missile of S-300 or Buk and Azeris and Turks already attack Armenia itself. Enemy is destroying Armenian cities and kill people and Pashinyan just sit and do nothing. This is a treason.

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    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:09 am

    medo wrote:
    Isos wrote:Nice Armenians !!! In the middle of the war they don't even activate their S-300. Are they waiting for alliens to use them ?

    Armenians have a big problem with a name Nikol Pashinyan. He is sabotaging defense with orders not to fire and not to response to attacks. He is stoling money and hide all equipment which was send by Armenian diaspora to help army in Artzakh. President of Artzakh realize this and now he contact Putin dirrectly and not Pashinyan. There was some infos, which could be correct, that those ballistic missiles and drones shot down in front of Erevan were actually shot down by Russian S-300V and not by Armenian S-300PS. Russians see by vectors, that they also fly against the base so they didn't risk and shot them down. Armenia till now didn't launch one missile of S-300 or Buk and Azeris and Turks already attack Armenia itself. Enemy is destroying Armenian cities and kill people and Pashinyan just sit and do nothing. This is a treason.

    Well if so there will be price to pay...

    Anyway, i am not fully sure that all countries have the same right to full independence and full foreign policy decisions.

    Small countries can really mess up the regional stability if, after separating from another country they allow other countries far away to push their destabilizing agenda there....

    There was a reason if those countries were controlled by others for centuries... the situation is still the same, but now they play as an independent country and have a vote in the UN. Worse, their master are sometimes in another continent and, differently from their previous masters, theyface no consequences in case of local destabilisation or war...

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:54 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:They would have to invade Armenia sparking CSTO to get involved. Since they didn't declare war on Armenia, you are assuming too much at the moment.

    They literally are showing pictures of the S-300PS strikes in Kaghnut IN ARMENIA. It's like a fully blown act of war. With a TSK wrap on it.


    https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320814529455030272?s=20

    Syrians got nabbed.

    Tweet unavailable.

    Got any real sources?

    https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1320582686868733953?s=20

    As à matter of fact I do...

    Thanks.

    So did Armenia declare war yet?

    I cannot firmly find any source showing:
    1 - Armenia declaring war
    2 - Armenia firing in retaliation.

    All the AD shots so far are in NK as far as I am aware.

    Care to provide sources for this?

    I'm still not understanding what your point even is. Correct me if I'm wrong but you want Russia to attack Azerbaijan in order to prevent them attacking Armenia because Armenia was attacked. Yet Armenia hasn't strikes back nor declared war.

    Is this correct?
    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:42 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    I'm still not understanding what your point even is.  Correct me if I'm wrong but you want Russia to attack Azerbaijan in order to prevent them attacking Armenia because Armenia was attacked. Yet Armenia hasn't strikes back nor declared war.

    Is this correct?

    Such are the effects of so many decades of Soviet propaganda against Russia fulfilling their destiny as a big power. Russia must be there even before the limitrophes notice they have a problem, Russia owes everything to everyone, every time. Hell, even Russians have developed this instinctive view of their country after all. It is in reality very simple: Armenians chose a "multi-vector" traitor as president and will get shafted. Russia does not need NK for anything and to "stop the Turks", if they were so worried about that, they have Armenia proper and the CSTO, the moment an attack against the land corridor blocking Turkey from Azerbaijan is attacked in earnest then it may be the end of Turkey, because:

    1. Turkey cannot defeat Russia
    2. They have made like a dozen of powerful international enemies which are just waiting the right occasion to jump at their neck

    So yes, Russia is not going to do anything apart from lamenting the tragedy, and those thinking Russia is responsible for everything may consider waking up to the XXI century where the RF is ruled by rational statesmen and not by ideologists trying to instil a complex of inferiority in the country.


    Last edited by LMFS on Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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