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    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:00 am

    De-facto they considered NK as part of Armenia, & lost more men fighting for it & Armenian interests there than the locals:
    https://korrespondent.net/world/4296727-nahornyi-karabakh-ozvuchyl-potery-v-boevykh-deistvyiakh

    https://nv.ua/opinion/armeniya-azerbaydzhan-chego-dobilsya-putin-poslednie-novosti-50123099.html

    https://nv.ua/opinion/armeniya-azerbaydzhan-chto-vyigral-putin-i-chto-delat-ukraine-poslednie-novosti-50124430.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add links)
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:49 am

    lol1 Nice. They don't even have the missiles to be usefull for anything.

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    9h
    Apparently, there is some question as to whether Armenia purchased missiles and other munitions for its four Su-30SM fighters, which could be part of why they played little to no role in the fighting

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    Post  Regular on Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:01 am

    I've listened to Alievs interviews and then Pushynian.

    I don't have much love for Azeris but sure as hell they have better leader that is much smarter and cunning than I gave credit for. If I was Azeri, I would definitely hold him in much higher regard.

    I am myself happy with the outcome - barbarism aside, Armenians did nothing with the land and weren't able to muster defences to hold on it. There was no Stalingrad there, they fought like cowardly idiots. Not only they blame Russians that their trenches weren't deep enough, but they are blaming annanews and wargozno relaying locations of troops and artillery systems during their pro-armenian reports Laughing

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    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:34 am

    Regular wrote:I've listened to Alievs interviews and then Pushynian.

    I don't have much love for Azeris but sure as hell they have better leader that is much smarter and cunning than I gave credit for. If I was Azeri, I would definitely hold him in much higher regard.

    I am myself happy with the outcome - barbarism aside, Armenians did nothing with the land and weren't able to muster defences to hold on it. There was no Stalingrad there, they fought like cowardly idiots. Not only they blame Russians that their trenches weren't deep enough, but they are blaming annanews and wargozno relaying locations of troops and artillery systems during their pro-armenian reports  Laughing

    With north vietnam style tunnels, they would have hold all NK.

    Azeri didn't do better. With air dominance they sustained as much damages as armenians. But at the end they could destroy more hardware thanks to stupid decisions of armenians and lack of modern stuff in the opposite side.

    Azeri clearly lack training and good generals. What helped them was trukish military. Without turkey they would have lost.
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    Post  calripson on Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:08 am

    Isos wrote:
    Regular wrote:I've listened to Alievs interviews and then Pushynian.

    I don't have much love for Azeris but sure as hell they have better leader that is much smarter and cunning than I gave credit for. If I was Azeri, I would definitely hold him in much higher regard.

    I am myself happy with the outcome - barbarism aside, Armenians did nothing with the land and weren't able to muster defences to hold on it. There was no Stalingrad there, they fought like cowardly idiots. Not only they blame Russians that their trenches weren't deep enough, but they are blaming annanews and wargozno relaying locations of troops and artillery systems during their pro-armenian reports  Laughing

    With north vietnam style tunnels, they would have hold all NK.

    Azeri didn't do better. With air dominance they sustained as much damages as armenians. But at the end they could destroy more hardware thanks to stupid decisions of armenians and lack of modern stuff in the opposite side.

    Azeri clearly lack training and good generals. What helped them was trukish military. Without turkey they would have lost.

    They should have hired the North Koreans. They are experts on tunnel building and would have worked on the cheap. They could have held out for years.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:45 am

    Isos wrote:Azeri clearly lack training and good generals. What helped them was trukish military. Without turkey they would have lost.

    Because Pussynian fired all the experienced generals, and hired a bunch of spineless lackeys, flunkeys, lap dogs and sycophants who's only jobs are to lick clean the shit-covered boots of HATO military personnel.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:50 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:...That's funny since Abkhazia and Ossetia recognize Arstakh...

    And yet Armenia doesn't of all people


    Hell even the spineless goofballs in the French parliament are attempting to recognize NK:

    The French Senate registered a draft resolution on the adoption of the independence of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic

    Macron is starting to look like Otto Von Bismarck in comparison to Pussynian, and that's embarrassing especially when you consider they were both groomed by Soros. Embarassed clown
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    Post  Walther von Oldenburg on Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:54 am

    In 1991-94 Armenians had army in NK.

    In 2020 Armenia did not send any troops to NK. If they were smart, half of Armenian army should be in NK 3 days after hostilities started.

    (the other half should be clearing the Nakhchivan pocket)
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    Post  Maximmmm on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:00 pm

    Aliev lighting BBC journalist on fire: https://twitter.com/TRTRussian/status/1328431448035127297

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    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:18 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:...That's funny since Abkhazia and Ossetia recognize Arstakh...

    And yet Armenia doesn't of all people


    Hell even the spineless goofballs in the French parliament are attempting to recognize NK:

    The French Senate registered a draft resolution on the adoption of the independence of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic

    Macron is starting to look like Otto Von Bismarck in comparison to Pussynian, and that's embarrassing especially when you consider they were both groomed by Soros. Embarassed clown

    It's more to piss off Turkey than anything else.

    Without Armenia and Russia recognizing it, it's useless.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:29 pm

    Vladimir Bruter believes that Armenia did not recognize Nagorno Karabakh due to international pressure.
    "Recognizing Karabakh would mean that Armenia claims a part of the internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan. The previous Armenian leadership did not recognise Karabakh de jure, although it did recognise it de facto. The prime goal for both Serzh Sargsyan and Robert Kocharian was to defend Karabakh. They could cope with the task, but Nikol Pashinyan did not," said Vladimir Bruter.
    https://www.pravdareport.com/russia/145287-russia_donetsk_luhansk/

    Armenia Raises Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict Troop Toll to 2,425
    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3 Blkbullet1 Armenian PM Accepts Responsibility for Nagorno-Karabakh Defeat
    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3 Blkbullet1 Armenian PM, Under Pressure to Quit After Karabakh Defeat, Unveils Action Plan
    What determines the commonality of geopolitical interests of Russia and Turkey?
    https://regnum.ru/news/polit/3119679.html
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    Post  KoTeMoRe on Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:32 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:Aliev lighting BBC journalist on fire: https://twitter.com/TRTRussian/status/1328431448035127297

    ... That's cringe Godfather wannabee language.

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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:32 pm

    Some guy with Armenian ancestry:

    Lavrov says US, France nursing ‘wounded pride’ over Moscow-brokered Karabakh peace deal

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    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:25 pm

    Another story that will be used to destroy their MIC. Pretty dumb not to sell them some r-77, kh-25 and kh-59. They may have dobe something.


    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    29 min
    Hakobyan criticized the decision to purchase Su-30SM fighters and said that Russia refuses to sell missiles for them (which is not true for other export customers). Gevork Gorgisyan also said yesterday that Armenia's Su-30SM did not have missiles. 2289/

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    17 min
    Hakobyan said that the original plan was to purchase several Tor battalions, but instead decided to spend the money on Su-30SM instead after purchasing only a few Tor-M2KM. This could have made a significant difference in the conflict. 2290/

    Rob Lee
    @RALee85
    ·
    11 min
    Instead, Armenia continued to purchase older Osa-AK systems. Hakobyan said these systems failed to shoot down a single UAV during the conflict. 2291/
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    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:44 pm

    @301_AD
    · 18 nov.
    The head of the Military Supervision Service of the RA Ministry of Defense Colonel General Movses Hakobyan resigned.

    N.B. Hakobyan was the ex-Chief of the General Staff pre-revolution. He was also seen in Artsakh commanding military operations during the war


    @301_AD
    ·
    13h
    Colonel General Movses Hakobyan:

    - Defeat is an opportunity to create a new victory.

    - The first big reason for the defeat is the management. Leading the armed forces from peaceful conditions to the state of war and in a state of war


    @301_AD
    ·
    13h
    - After my resignation [from the Chief of Staff General Staff after the revolution], I told the Prime Minister that you had appointed the the most unpopular general (talking about Artak Davtyan


    @301_AD
    ·
    13h
    The armed forces have an information center, one of the tasks of which is to mislead the enemy. That is, the spread of false information. But there is such a principle: 30% is false information, and the rest is true. But our false information was more than 100%. - Hakobyan


    @301_AD
    ·
    13h
    Hokobyan added that this is precisely why after the signing of the trilateral agreement by the leaders of Armenia, Russia and Azerbaijan, many could not understand and still do not understand why this document was signed


    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    Mobilization was not carried out [efficiently] during the war.
    As of the 30th of October, it was carried out at 70% in the Republic of Artsakh, and 52% in the Republic of Armenia, while the mobilization was to be carried out within 48 hours [after the start of the war].


    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    On the third day of the war, the Prime Minister of the country issued an order to stop the supply [of regular army reserves/troops], and to supplement it with volunteer detachments - Hakobyan


    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    On the 5th day of the war, we already had 1,500 people who had fled whom we isolated so that they would not come to Armenia and spread panic - Hakobyan


    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    We failed on the right and on the left flanks.
    These military units were to be replenished [with troops] from the Karabakh, Stepanakert, from where the recruitment was carried out by 32%, and from the Republic of Armenia, where the recruitment was not complete

    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    After the revolution, the composition of the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff almost doubled (by 98%), and the number of military personnel who, if necessary, had to fight, was reduced - Hakobyan


    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    During my stay in Karabakh, my main function was to exclude non-military personnel from being in the command headquarters - Movses Hakobyan


    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    Mrs. Anna [PM's wife] was sitting and watching. She was not interfering.
    I approached her and asked her to leave so as not to embarrass the boys. She said well & left 20 minutes later.
    4 hours after that I was called to Yerevan and banned from going to Karabakh - Movses Hakobyan


    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    Iskander missiles was used during the war, but I will not mention where - Movses Hakobyan


    @301_AD
    ·
    12h
    There is only one person who I will insult, Artsrun Hovhannisyan, who lied 30 times a day. The highest position this person has occupied in the armed forces was a platoon commander and he was doing analysis - Movses Hakobyan


    @301_AD
    En réponse à
    @301_AD
    The Su-30SM fighters that are in Armenia are without missiles intended for them. I warned the leadership about this.
    There is a special decree in Russia that prohibits the sale of missiles for the Su-30SM to other countries.


    @301_AD
    ·
    11h
    En réponse à
    @301_AD
    ...I was offered to purchase these fighters when I was the head of the General Staff, but I refused and reported to the country's leadership the reason for not buying them


    @301_AD
    ·
    11h
    We were able to neutralize the Turkish Bayraktars for 4 days using the newest Pole-21 electronic warfare system, but then the enemy was able to reconfigure their systems and re-use the drones
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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:37 pm

    Isos wrote:...@301_AD
    En réponse à
    @301_AD
    The Su-30SM fighters that are in Armenia are without missiles intended for them. I warned the leadership about this.
    There is a special decree in Russia that prohibits the sale of missiles for the Su-30SM to other countries....

    Bull. Shit.

    If this were the case not a single Su-30 would have been sold ever

    Isos wrote:Another story that will be used to destroy their MIC. Pretty dumb not to sell them some r-77, kh-25 and kh-59. They may have dobe something....

    Correct. Story. Nothing more.

    They were too cheap to pay for the missiles

    After this ass whooping nobody will be taking Armenian opinion on anything military related for next several decades

    Gotta say those Armenians are some seriously sore losers






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    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:43 pm

    They are talking about SM not MKI or MKM. But yeah that's weired.

    Tmr Rosoboronexport will have to tell what happened.

    Armrnian clearly look like they have no idea how to manage an army but I doubt they would buy 4 sukhoi for 100 million $ and not buy some missiles...

    From the words of that general, it's not the military that fucked up but some corrupt politicians.
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:38 am

    Seems to me that this was a conflict between Armenians in NK and Azerbaijan... even assuming they had missiles for their Su-30s... would they risk them in this sort of conflict?

    The Su-30 is a good plane but would be totally useless against small drones, and would be vulnerable to being shot down.

    I would think a lot of MANPADS would be a good start, but not a cost effective way of dealing with the problem...

    They had soldiers... give entire units RPK-74s and train them to volley fire in bursts like they used to do in WWI against long range enemy targets.

    Spread a section of 100 soldiers along a line of trenches and get them all to load up a 45 round mag and coordinate their fire at drone targets... make sure the direction you are all shooting means the bullets land in enemy territory and you might get a few bonus kills too.
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    Post  medo on Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:42 am

    This is BS. Armenia is a member of ODKB, so it could get all needed missiles, same as Belarus and Kazakhstan. Most probably Pashinyan didn't buy them. But even in that case Su-30SM could be useful with its radar and ECM, ELINT complexes. They could map and designate all Azeri positions and give info to ground troops. This war was one of the biggest betrayals in history. Pashinyan gave whole Artsakh to Erdogan and Aliev. I wonder, how much money he got for this.


    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #3 Unname10
    Pashinyan's wife Anna was all the time in bunker, where generals plan and control defense of Artsakh. She deliver all the plans of defense to Turkey.

    https://ru.armeniasputnik.am/politics/20201119/25406778/Chto-delala-zhena-Pashinyana-na-komandnom-punkte-Detali-ot-generala-Akopyana.html

    Слухи подтвердились: Анна Акопян действительно без разрешения присутствовала на командном пункте, откуда он попросил ее удалиться. После этого его вызвали в Ереван.

    ЕРЕВАН, 19 ноя — Sputnik. Бывший руководитель военно-контрольной службы Минобороны Армении генерал-полковник Мовсес Акопян прокомментировал слухи об инциденте между ним и супругой премьер-министра Армении Анной Акопян. В частности, в обществе распространились слухи о том, что она без разрешения являлась на командный пункт, где шли военные совещания. Разумеется, вход посторонних людей туда был строго воспрещен.

    Генерал увидел Анну Акопян на командном пункте: она сидела у монитора и смотрела на запись боя. Там же находился генерал-лейтенант Самвел Бабаян. При этом она не задавала вопросов и ничего не говорила. Генерал Акопян подошел к ней и сказал, что ей здесь быть не нужно.

    "Я сказал: "Не нужно, здесь мужчины разговаривают, ругаются. Она сказала "хорошо". Через четыре часа меня вызвали в Ереван к министру обороны. Я приехал с ожиданием, что вернусь в Карабах. Но министр сказал мне, что я больше не должен ехать", - рассказал он.

    По словам Акопяна, от имени Пашиняна ему запретили появляться в командном пункте Армии обороны Арцаха.

    Он показал журналистам сообщение, отправленное на номер Пашиняна. Дословно: "Прошу меня отправить в Арцах, мое сердце разрывается". Премьер даже не ответил на это сообщение.

    Однако Акопян любой ценой пытался попасть в Арцах. Ему сказали, что нужно сдать тест на Covid-19. Он пошел на обследование, вынесли диагноз – двусторонняя пневмония, что его крайне удивило, так как чувствовал он себя нормально. Прошел повторное обследование, и оказалось, у него всего 1%-ное воспаление легких, что вполне нормальный диагноз для здорового человека. В конце концов, после долгих попыток ему все же удалось "вырваться" и уехать в Карабах, где он оставался до 28 октября.

    Уже долгое время эта информация муссировалась в СМИ, а несколько дней назад об этом инциденте рассказал российский медиа-менеджер Арам Габрелянов.

    The rumors were confirmed: Anna Hakobyan was indeed present at the command post without permission, from where he asked her to leave. After that he was summoned to Yerevan.

    YEREVAN, 19 Nov - Sputnik. Former head of the military control service of the Armenian Defense Ministry, Colonel General Movses Hakobyan, commented on rumors about the incident between him and the wife of the Armenian Prime Minister Anna Hakobyan. In particular, rumors spread in the society that she had come to the command post, where military meetings were taking place, without permission. Of course, the entry of strangers there was strictly prohibited.

    The general saw Anna Hakobyan at the command post: she was sitting at the monitor and looking at the recording of the battle. Lieutenant General Samvel Babayan was also there. However, she did not ask questions and did not say anything. General Hakobyan approached her and said that she did not need to be here.

    “I said:“ No need, here men talk, swear. She said okay. Four hours later, I was summoned to Yerevan to see the Minister of Defense. I came with the expectation that I would return to Karabakh. But the minister told me that I shouldn't go anymore, "he said.

    According to Hakobyan, on behalf of Pashinyan, he was forbidden to appear at the command post of the Artsakh Defense Army.

    He showed reporters a message sent to Pashinyan's number. Literally: "Please send me to Artsakh, my heart is breaking." The prime minister did not even respond to this message.

    However, Hakobyan tried to get to Artsakh at any cost. He was told that he needed to take a test for Covid-19. He went to the examination, was diagnosed with bilateral pneumonia, which surprised him extremely, as he felt normal. He underwent a second examination, and it turned out that he had only 1% pneumonia, which is a completely normal diagnosis for a healthy person. In the end, after long attempts, he still managed to "break free" and leave for Karabakh, where he remained until October 28.

    For a long time, this information has been exaggerated in the media, and a few days ago the Russian media manager Aram Gabrelyanov spoke about this incident.

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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:42 am

    Can't sell missiles for su-30sm? One has to be stupid to believe that. Especially since missiles like r-27 have been around for forever and been used on nearly every Russian jet including SM.

    Lol

    Isos wrote:They are talking about SM not MKI or MKM. But yeah that's weired.

    Tmr Rosoboronexport will have to tell what happened.

    Armrnian clearly look like they have no idea how to manage an army but I doubt they would buy 4 sukhoi for 100 million $ and not buy some missiles...

    From the words of that general, it's not the military that fucked up but some corrupt politicians.

    Rosoboronexport doesn't have to explain anything. Made up stories aren't anything to indulge in. A simple laugh, basic common sense (oxymoron) of examples of missiles sold everywhere for all types of Russian jets, and a laugh at Armenia's incompetence is really all that is needed.
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    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:23 am

    Yes they have because if they don't it will affact their image.

    Russia didn't gave iran the s-300 it bought for a long time. Western/Israeli influence is still too great on Putin to have total independancybon weapon sells.

    Also :

    Babak Taghvaee - Μπάπακ Τακβαίε - بابک تقوایی
    ·
    11h
    As whom once was involved in #Iran's defense industry can say that we in #Iran Air Force also suffered a lot from #Russia.We purchased 12 Su-24MKs & 24 MiG-29s in 1989 but they refused to deliver spare parts & even complete training of our technicians.That was #Ukraine helped us.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:30 am

    No, they don't.

    Because there isn't proof but an allegation.

    Yeah, and Russia didn't send shit to Iran because of sanctions that Russia agreed to.  Maybe you forgot that. And Armenia isn't sanctioned. And Russia sent missiles to Kazakhstan and Belarus for their Su-30SM.

    So no, you nor the "source" has a leg to stand on.

    Ukraine was and is known to break laws. Always did and always will.  In 1989, it was USSR, not Russia, nor Ukraine.

    I'm impressed though that you believe random retards on twitter.  I thought most people now figured out twitter is usually full of shit.

    So the burden of proof is on them to show proof Russia refused to sell the missiles. Not Russia's export company. I am not sure you are aware how this stuff works but mob rule mentality of twitter isn't a jurisdiction unlike it may be in the United States. In the real world though, different.

    As Papadragon said, it's a "story". You can't equate Iran deal as Iran was sanctioned even by Russia lol.

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:37 am

    And before you say "but they could have sold them back in the 90's and early 2000's before arms embargo". No. Russia couldn't even supply themselves. Their defense organization was more or less in shambles only till recently. And they still have to work out new agreements with India on spare parts alone. It is a long work in progress
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:39 am

    There was no embargo on S-300 which is a defensive weapon. They just bend over israeli and choosed not deliver what was legaly bought by Iran.

    This guy talking about su-30 missiles isn't a twitter guy but head of Armenian forces.

    The "story" is then real. They didn't have any missile. Why ? Idk. Maybe he lies and they didn't have money to buy them. But then why buy 4 useless su-30 ? They had the option to buy Tor or some upgraded and cheaper mig-29. That's weired.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:05 am

    Isos wrote:Yes they have because if they don't it will affact their image.

    Russia didn't gave iran the s-300 it bought for a long time. Western/Israeli influence is still too great on Putin to have total independancybon weapon sells.

    Also :

    Babak Taghvaee - Μπάπακ Τακβαίε - بابک تقوایی
    ·
    11h
    As whom once was involved in #Iran's defense industry can say that we in #Iran Air Force also suffered a lot from #Russia.We purchased 12 Su-24MKs & 24 MiG-29s in 1989 but they refused to deliver spare parts & even complete training of our technicians.That was #Ukraine helped us.

    Incorrect, it was Medvedev who was influenced by the US/Israeli lobbies. It was Medvedev who agreed to the fake-assed 'restart' to relations with the U.S., it was Medvedev who agreed to the sanctions, it was Medvedev that the West felt comfortable working with to launch the Georgian war, and it was Medvedev who allowed the attack on Libya which absolutely angered VVP, and VVP decided to retake the presidency in the next election because of it.

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