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    2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2

    franco
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    Post  franco Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:45 pm

    Could the hypothetical defeat of Armenia in Nagorno-Karabakh be followed by the collapse of the Soros Foundation: reflections on the events in the Caucasus

    The incumbent Prime Minister of Armenia Nikol Pashinyan is associated with the structures of businessman George Soros. According to a number of experts, it was Soros's sponsorship that Pashinyan owes to his coming to power in the country.

    The George Soros Foundation has been operating in Armenia since 1997, investing tens of millions of dollars in support of pro-Western forces. It was with Soros's money that the “velvet revolution” was being prepared, which brought Nikol Pashinyan to power.

    President of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev himself calls Pashinyan a "product of Soros" and recalls that at one time the collapse of the Soviet state began with the events in Nagorno-Karabakh. Initially, Pashinyan declared loyalty to cooperation with the European Union and criticized Russia, but the armed conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh forced the Armenian prime minister to reconsider his positions on cooperation with Moscow. At least declaratively. First of all, Pashinyan understood that without Russia's help the region would come to a catastrophic situation for the Armenian people.

    However, the loss of Nagorno-Karabakh can cost dearly not only Pashinyan, but also the entire Soros project. And here there is a main contradiction of interests: on the one hand, it seems like Soros and his structures are opposed to Russia, but in the Transcaucasus their activities can lead to disastrous consequences just for Armenia. After all, there is no doubt that it is Moscow that is the main defender of Armenia in the Transcaucasus.

    In addition, the Armenian economy is closely connected with the Russian one, so the attempts of Soros' people to build obstacles to Russian business in the country through the Armenian leadership are ultimately more harmful to Armenia than to Russia. It is also worth recalling that migration and financial flows in Armenia are directed to and from Russia.

    Armenia and Georgia have always been viewed by the West in terms of opposing Russian interests in the Transcaucasus. In this regard, they were of even greater interest to the West than Azerbaijan, which nevertheless belongs to American and European political scientists to be "Asian despotism", with whom it is more difficult to build relations than with pro-Western parties and organizations of Armenia or Georgia.

    It is no coincidence that a large number of so-called human rights organizations, sponsored by the West, operate in Armenia. The conflict in Karabakh put these organizations in a difficult position: on the one hand, if Armenia loses, it will hit Russian interests in the Transcaucasus, on the other hand, it will cause a political fiasco of pro-Western forces led by Nikol Pashinyan in Armenia itself.

    Oppositional sentiments towards Pashinyan and his policies are already growing in Armenia, and there is no doubt that such sentiments will only intensify in the foreseeable future. The growth of discontent will be especially associated with failures in the armed conflict with Azerbaijan. It is no coincidence that Pashinyan has recently begun talking about the need to introduce Russian peacekeepers, and not NATO troops, into the Karabakh conflict zone.

    However, for the Open Society Foundation itself, the loss of Karabakh is unlikely to play any significant role. It is clear that the fund's position in Armenia and the attitude towards it among the Armenian diaspora will change for the worse, but for Soros and his assistants, Armenia and the conflict in Karabakh are just an episode, and nothing will prevent them from switching their attention to other countries.

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    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:47 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:They would have to invade Armenia sparking CSTO to get involved. Since they didn't declare war on Armenia, you are assuming too much at the moment.

    They literally are showing pictures of the S-300PS strikes in Kaghnut IN ARMENIA. It's like a fully blown act of war. With a TSK wrap on it.


    https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320814529455030272?s=20

    Syrians got nabbed.

    Tweet unavailable.

    Got any real sources?

    https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1320582686868733953?s=20

    As à matter of fact I do...

    Thanks.

    So did Armenia declare war yet?

    I cannot firmly find any source showing:
    1 - Armenia declaring war
    2 - Armenia firing in retaliation.

    All the AD shots so far are in NK as far as I am aware.

    Care to provide sources for this?

    I'm still not understanding what your point even is.  Correct me if I'm wrong but you want Russia to attack Azerbaijan in order to prevent them attacking Armenia because Armenia was attacked. Yet Armenia hasn't strikes back nor declared war.

    Is this correct?

    I want Russia to issue a formal statement on the strikes from the Azeri forces in Armenia proper (Vardenis, Kaghnut, David bek etc). This statement is missing. Why?
    As for where the AD shots are, I would let you save face and withdraw that statement. Armenian General Prosecutor even brought up a case for War crimes, including 1 obvious case of 122mm ALRS rocket fired from Turkish stocks.
    I'm pretty sure you "didnu see nuffin".

    I provided sources that somehow you are rejecting.
    Armenia doesn't need to declare war to demand its due socour from the CSTO. Or even a formal statement.
    Russia doesn't need to attack AZ, just interfere in NK shooting "AZ" drones...
    Maximmmm
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    Post  Maximmmm Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:50 pm

    Yeah looking at some of the recent news, it seems like NK's independent days are almost over.
    Pasha seems secure in his chair (somehow) and deadset on letting the territory get conquered by force.
    Overall, I think Russia's position has been pretty wise. We haven't gotten dragged into a bloody conflict and we've managed to keep Moscow as a key location for diplomatic efforts (though they're pretty useless obvs).

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    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:52 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:They would have to invade Armenia sparking CSTO to get involved. Since they didn't declare war on Armenia, you are assuming too much at the moment.

    They literally are showing pictures of the S-300PS strikes in Kaghnut IN ARMENIA. It's like a fully blown act of war. With a TSK wrap on it.


    https://twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320814529455030272?s=20

    Syrians got nabbed.

    Tweet unavailable.

    Got any real sources?

    https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1320582686868733953?s=20

    As à matter of fact I do...

    Thanks.

    So did Armenia declare war yet?

    I cannot firmly find any source showing:
    1 - Armenia declaring war
    2 - Armenia firing in retaliation.

    All the AD shots so far are in NK as far as I am aware.

    Care to provide sources for this?

    I'm still not understanding what your point even is.  Correct me if I'm wrong but you want Russia to attack Azerbaijan in order to prevent them attacking Armenia because Armenia was attacked. Yet Armenia hasn't strikes back nor declared war.

    Is this correct?

    I want Russia to issue a formal statement on the strikes from the Azeri forces in Armenia proper (Vardenis, Kaghnut, David bek etc). This statement is missing. Why?
    As for where the AD shots are, I would let you save face and withdraw that statement. Armenian General Prosecutor even brought up a case for War crimes, including 1 obvious case of 122mm ALRS rocket fired from Turkish stocks.
    I'm pretty sure you "didnu see nuffin".

    I provided sources that somehow you are rejecting.
    Armenia doesn't need to declare war to demand its due socour from the CSTO. Or even a formal statement.
    Russia doesn't need to attack AZ, just interfere in NK shooting "AZ" drones...

    Yes they do.

    They need to be in direct war and then ask for CSTO to be involved.

    It's that simple.

    So far, you use tweets to mention about direct attacks on Armenia.

    Has Armenian news and government state as well?  If so, do you have a source?

    You see, Russia can only act on behest of Armenia. Not that they waltz in and make demands.  That isn't how things are done anymore.  And you seem to be alone on this one.

    Also, I might add that Russia also recognizes NK as Azerbaijan under UN (well, they don't recognize them as independent so assuming it's Azerbaijan).  So yeah, I think there are legal reasons why Russia isn't interfering other than demanding ceasefire.

    I am agreeing with others - Armenia did this to themselves. And they aren't even trying to fight back. Now we are getting people here demanding Russia does something. Lol.
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    Post  Mindstorm Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:24 pm

    Unique images of #Armenia S-300 being destroyed by #Azerbaijan IAI Harop.



    Oh sure, and i have a video of aliens invading Chile and Japan.....

    The level of information and media material falsification in this conflict is truly astounding Rolling Eyes

    There is not any attack on the territory of Armenia for the simple reason that Azeri still maintain self-preservation instinct, the few UAVs that have closed Armenian airspace ,typically surveillance ones with the occasional UCAV/kamikaze ones attempting to avoid some of the Republic of Artsakh's air defense area following a too western flight pact, usually survive few minutes before go down.


    Maybe it would be important to remember that this conflict involve forces of Azebaijan (anyhow enjoing a sharp numerical and economical advantage even on the forces of the whole Armenia) with an open support of a powerful foreign nation -namely Turkey- against the only armed forces of so called "Republic of Artsakh" with the support of Armenian forces NOT against the armed forces of entire Armenia.

    As said Azerbaijani forces, with a sharp numerical and technological advantage, confront the local forces in place that are sharply inferior in number and level equipment to those present in Armenia soil, what allow insulated Artsakh's forces to resist until now to similar overwhelming forces is purely the heavy defensive posture, engineering structures and geography.

    Returning to UAV i have often said how the greater weapon of UAV is the video that enormously twist theirs importance and weight in the conflict, while in facts 100% the UAV action result in a video 99% of the action of any other equipment (artillery, mortars, MLRS, air defense systems, tanks, light arms infantry, ballistic missiles etc...) is not recorded at all including the same losses of those UAV (except when they fall in friendly territory that is an event much less frequent than the contrary because UAVs also damaged in a lethal way usually return toward the controller's territory booth manually or authomatically guided)

    Even more, majority of the not attentive observers, deceived by those videos continue to believe that :

    1) A successful attack with an UAV (the truly affordable of which have often a warhead of only 2-3 kg) result in destroyed enemy equipment; this in the wide majority of instance is not the case    
    2) That the most long range ones with greater capabilities are cheap and affordable.

    For the second point is important to recall that a drone like Harop has surely long range and a warhead capable to destroy a MBT ,but its cost on the international market is something around 9-10 millions dollars at piece , for comparison the typical old T-72 operative in Artsakh cost less than 800k dollars including munitions 3-4 weeks of intense combat , an entire battery of the older "Оса" operative with Artsakh's forces cost lesss than half

    Only the Harop downed some days ago by Artsakh's air defenses and of which there is a not editable video (but is rational to think that several others has been downed without the damaged UAVs going down in frendly territory)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320701145246015490

    cost more than two entire batteries of the same prehistoric Оса they have employed to down it !!


    Last edited by Mindstorm on Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:42 pm

    LMFS wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    I'm still not understanding what your point even is.  Correct me if I'm wrong but you want Russia to attack Azerbaijan in order to prevent them attacking Armenia because Armenia was attacked. Yet Armenia hasn't strikes back nor declared war.

    Is this correct?

    Such are the effects of so many decades of Soviet propaganda against Russia fulfilling their destiny as a big power. Russia must be there even before the limitrophes notice they have a problem, Russia owes everything to everyone, every time. Hell, even Russians have developed this instinctive view of their country after all. It is in reality very simple: Armenians chose a "multi-vector" traitor as president and will get shafted. Russia does not need NK for anything and to "stop the Turks", if they were so worried about that, they have Armenia proper and the CSTO, the moment an attack against the land corridor blocking Turkey from Azerbaijan is attacked in earnest then it may be the end of Turkey, because:

    1. Turkey cannot defeat Russia
    2. They have made like a dozen of powerful international enemies which are just waiting the right occasion to jump at their neck

    So yes, Russia is not going to do anything apart from lamenting the tragedy, and those thinking Russia is responsible for everything may consider waking up to the XXI century where the RF is ruled by rational statesmen and not by ideologists with a complex of inferiority.


    This is hilarious.

    1. Russia is indeed holding back because it has the upper hand in the escalation process. That is a dangerous gamble.
    2. Russia is being cynical wrt to Armenia and is betting on its current protector role AFTER this conflict. This would mean that Russia is expecting ARM population to reject Pash, while they might as well (and this is my opinion) reject an useless Russia (in their eyes).
    3. Russia's destiny as a big power is being challenged by Russian lack of soft-power appeal as it caused a geostrategic loss in the Caucasus and the Caucasus near abroad (which is the current Georgian situation, which blind sides the Russians on their right flack in the Lesser Caucasus). Added to the depth loss with Ukraine aligning with any kind of Anti-Russian propaganda, Russia has now a problem on its doorstep that it did not have before.
    4. What Armenians chose and what Russia's role in Armenia is are related, but also reciprocating. Russia can let Armenians get slaughtered and pretend it has its hands tied by legal concerns, but it clearly has issues with that approach given what it just did in Syria. Furthermore, I repeat the issue, it hasn't anything to do with Karabagh, but with the principle of quandary. Russia is not supposed to be the quandary of the region. It is supposed to be fucking Alexander and cut the Gordian knot. Here they literally are letting the Turks get into the negotiation table regarding Artsakh while the Minsk table is already FULL.
    5. Russia doesn't owe at anyone anything, the same way Armenians do not owe Russia its two bases in Guymri & Erevan, which are literally tripwires vs Turkey. If Russia wants to drop more depth because of its lack of willpower, the situation will get worse before getting any better. Turkey would have scored the best advance by actually not even attacking Armenia.
    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:53 pm

    Mindstorm wrote:Unique images of #Armenia S-300 being destroyed by #Azerbaijan IAI Harop.



    Oh sure, and i have a video of aliens invading Chile and Japan.....

    The level of information and media material falsification in this conflict is truly astounding Rolling Eyes

    There is not any attack on the territory of Armenia for the simple reason that Azeri still maintain self-preservation instinct, the few UAVs that have closed Armenian airspace ,typically surveillance ones with the occasional UCAV/kamikaze ones attempting to avoid some of the Republic of Artsakh's air defense area following a too western flight pact, usually survive few minutes before go down.


    Maybe it would be important to remember that this conflict involve forces of Azebaijan (anyhow enjoing a sharp numerical and economical advantage even on the forces of the whole Armenia) with an open support of a powerful foreign nation -namely Turkey- against the only armed forces of so called "Republic of Artsakh" with the support of Armenian forces NOT against the armed forces of entire Armenia.

    As said Azerbaijani forces, with a sharp numerical and technological advantage, confront the local forces in place that are sharply inferior in number and level equipment to those present in Armenia soil, what allow insulated Artsakh's forces to resist until now to similar overwhelming forces is purely the heavy defensive posture, engineering structures and geography.

    Returning to UAV i have often said how the greater weapon of UAV is the video that enormously twist theirs importance and weight in the conflict, while in facts 100% the UAV action result in a video 99% of the action of any other equipment (artillery, mortars, MLRS, air defense systems, tanks, light arms infantry, ballistic missiles etc...) is not recorded at all including the same losses of those UAV (except when they fall in friendly territory that is an event much less frequent than the contrary because UAVs also damaged in a lethal way usually return toward the controller's territory booth manually or authomatically guided)

    Even more, majority of the not attentive observers, deceived by those videos continue to believe that :

    1) A successful attack with an UAV (the truly affordable of which have often a warhead of only 2-3 kg) result in destroyed enemy equipment; this in the wide majority of instance is not the case    
    2) That the most long range ones with greater capabilities are cheap and affordable.

    For the second point is important to recall that a drone like Harop has surely long range and a warhead capable to destroy a MBT ,but cost on the international something like 9-10 millions dollars at piece , for comparison the typical old T-72 operative in Artsakh cost less than 800k dollars including munitions 3-4 weeks of intense combat , an entire battery of the older "Оса" operative with Artsakh's forces cost lesss than half

    Only the Harop downed some days ago by Artsakh's air defenses and of which there is a not editable video (but is rational to think that several others has been downed without the damaged UAVs going down in frendly territory)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/301_AD/status/1320701145246015490

    cost more than two entire batteries of the same prehistoric Оса they have employed to down it !!


    http://investigative.am/en/news/view/vardenis-paterazm.html

    Hello & Goodbye.

    People I know you're (all you in the whole Pash-Soros cabal) hell bent on refusing the basic truth and everyone and their mother knows that Russia is playing Ostrich because it has no good options; but this stuff is basic.
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:12 pm

    @kotemore

    If the armenians are bent inton self destruction, I do not see why Russia should save them. Without the russian bases they would have already been destroyed by turkey.

    Without Russia we would not even speak about the genocide of armenians of last century, since turkey would have slowly repeated the same process...

    we would just speak of a population not anymore existing (except for a few hundred thousands armenians living abroad)

    Well in that case better for Russians, after the armenians are not anymore there, they could reclaim the land from turkey and occupy it themselves,  instead of having there a fake ally


    This would be a good lesson for all the small countries trying to play both sides in a geopolitical conflict

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:57 pm

    So let's get this straight: Russia is supposed to save the regime in Yerevan even though it is installed by its enemies?
    What else is Russia "supposed" to do?

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:34 pm


    Minister of defense of Nagorno Karabah got droned by Azerbaijan, he probably won't make it

    https://iravaban.net/en/298415.html
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    Post  Regular Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:34 pm

    kvs wrote:So let's get this straight:  Russia is supposed to save the regime in Yerevan even though it is installed by its enemies?
    What else is Russia "supposed" to do?  


    They could openly ask for russian intervention and take pro-Russian stance yet nothing like this happened. West won't help them too. I am not sure what they expected when they left army and county in such state. Small countries should align or they will be crushed

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    Maximmmm
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    Post  Maximmmm Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:56 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Minister of defense of Nagorno Karabah got droned by Azerbaijan, he probably won't make it

    https://iravaban.net/en/298415.html

    Yeah the footage is insane, I was about to post it as well.
    Apparently NK is claiming he was "wounded" and is therefore being replaced as minister by somebody else (via lenta: https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/27/ministr_oboroni/)

    Lots of international media now making big claims about drones changing the face of 21st century warfare, but I think they're all wrong. It's the same thing it's been for 80 years, aerial superiority.
    If NK had the skies on lockdown, the tanks and ATGMs would be front and centre again. Since they don't, the drones reign hellfire on whatever they want.
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    Post  miketheterrible Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:20 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Minister of defense of Nagorno Karabah got droned by Azerbaijan, he probably won't make it

    https://iravaban.net/en/298415.html

    Yeah the footage is insane, I was about to post it as well.
    Apparently NK is claiming he was "wounded" and is therefore being replaced as minister by somebody else (via lenta: https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/27/ministr_oboroni/)

    Lots of international media now making big claims about drones changing the face of 21st century warfare, but I think they're all wrong. It's the same thing it's been for 80 years, aerial superiority.
    If NK had the skies on lockdown, the tanks and ATGMs would be front and centre again. Since they don't, the drones reign hellfire on whatever they want.

    That is what it is. Shitty AD setup of NK has left it open to easy pickings by drones. Radar systems turned off or systems not operational, mixed with just being clustered and out in the open.

    Azerbaijan was very much prepared. NK was not. And with lack of Armenia support, looks like not much else.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:55 pm

    Regular wrote:
    kvs wrote:So let's get this straight:  Russia is supposed to save the regime in Yerevan even though it is installed by its enemies?
    What else is Russia "supposed" to do?  


    They could openly ask for russian intervention and take pro-Russian stance yet nothing like this happened. West won't help them too. I am not sure what they expected when they left army and county in such state. Small countries should align or they will be crushed

    They could ask but they would be refused, taking a pro-russian stance would not change that,
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    Post  LMFS Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:02 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    1. Russia is indeed holding back because it has the upper hand in the escalation process. That is a dangerous gamble.

    They have no mandate to do anything, this is an Azerbaijani intern problem even according to Armenia. That is first and should be enough reason, unless you don't give a damn about international law, but I do and it seems Russian government does too.

    2. Russia is being cynical wrt to Armenia and is betting on its current protector role AFTER this conflict. This would mean that Russia is expecting ARM population to reject Pash, while they might as well (and this is my opinion) reject an useless Russia (in their eyes).

    Armenians are being cynical to Armenians in NK then, and by some orders of magnitude more than Russians. It is ludicrous to suggest that Russia should fight their illegal wars on their behalf, wasting their men, wealth and international fair-play stance, so that Armenians keep a good opinion of them. They can go get fucked if they don't like Russians, honestly.

    3. Russia's destiny as a big power is being challenged by Russian lack of soft-power appeal as it caused a geostrategic loss in the Caucasus and the Caucasus near abroad (which is the current Georgian situation, which blind sides the Russians on their right flack in the Lesser Caucasus). Added to the depth loss with Ukraine aligning with any kind of Anti-Russian propaganda, Russia has now a problem on its doorstep that it did not have before.

    Russia was screwed first by the Bolsheviks and then by Gorbachev and Yeltsin, without forgetting wrong development policies in other moments of the USSR. They have been playing twenty years with a fatally losing hand and still they are improving, massively, their situation, because they have essentially defeated the internal 5th column and solved their dependence of the limitrophes, criminally cultivated by the USSR. Now those countries will need to grow up and learn they are not Russia's spoilt children, entitled to eternal fooling around and living off Russia's wealth just for the sake of existing.

    4. What Armenians chose and what Russia's role in Armenia is are related, but also reciprocating. Russia can let Armenians get slaughtered and pretend it has its hands tied by legal concerns, but it clearly has issues with that approach given what it just did in Syria. Furthermore, I repeat the issue, it hasn't anything to do with Karabagh, but with the principle of quandary. Russia is not supposed to be the quandary of the region. It is supposed to be fucking Alexander and cut the Gordian knot. Here they literally are letting the Turks get into the negotiation table regarding Artsakh while the Minsk table is already FULL.

    Containment of Turkey is not Russia's sacred mission in this world. Maybe the people that so hastily criticise Putin for not rushing to use force are simply losing their temper too easily. Most of the time Putin's job consists simply in letting all sorts of dickheads left and right shoot themselves in the feet like Erdogan keeps doing

    5. Russia doesn't owe at anyone anything, the same way Armenians do not owe Russia its two bases in Guymri & Erevan, which are literally tripwires vs Turkey. If Russia wants to drop more depth because of its lack of willpower, the situation will get worse before getting any better. Turkey would have scored the best advance by actually not even attacking Armenia.

    Haha, that one was funny. So the bases Russia has in Armenia to deter Turkey from slaughtering them are a great favour for which Russia should pay... you don't need to tell me no more Rolling Eyes


    Last edited by LMFS on Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  franco Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:03 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:
    Maximmmm wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Minister of defense of Nagorno Karabah got droned by Azerbaijan, he probably won't make it

    https://iravaban.net/en/298415.html

    Yeah the footage is insane, I was about to post it as well.
    Apparently NK is claiming he was "wounded" and is therefore being replaced as minister by somebody else (via lenta: https://lenta.ru/news/2020/10/27/ministr_oboroni/)

    Lots of international media now making big claims about drones changing the face of 21st century warfare, but I think they're all wrong. It's the same thing it's been for 80 years, aerial superiority.
    If NK had the skies on lockdown, the tanks and ATGMs would be front and centre again. Since they don't, the drones reign hellfire on whatever they want.

    That is what it is.  Shitty AD setup of NK has left it open to easy pickings by drones.  Radar systems turned off or systems not operational, mixed with just being clustered and out in the open.

    Azerbaijan was very much prepared.  NK was not.  And with lack of Armenia support, looks like not much else.

    Saw somewhere on twitter today that the Armenian Counter Intelligence director was fired. Possible this obviously successful intel operation by the Azeri / Turks was the reason.

    miketheterrible likes this post

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:05 pm

    Neither their S-300PS nor Osa and strela 10 are designed to counter small and slow drones. If it wasn't designed to, don't expect to work magically against them. It may work in tests but in real war with those untrained armenian crews it won't, in some cases it will but at the end they will loose all their systems.

    Those systems are using radars from the 70s that are not designed to track such small and slow targets because the computers need to filter birds and those drones fall in that class of target.

    They should have bought pantsirs and buk M2 when they saw Azeri buying those drones.

    They have few tor that can do the work but they keep them in Armenia.

    Armenian AD is outdated to coubter Azeri tactics. And those drones are much faster to replace.

    If azeri were using su-25 and mig-29 they would have perfectly work. But not against plastic drones with very low rcs.
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    Post  Maximmmm Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:19 pm

    I'd love to be able to know what the political situation in Armenia is right now. To us it seems like Pasha has this on lockdown, but maybe there's a chance he gets kicked out?
    Do the regular people understand what's going on, or are they buying the "the west will help us" "Russia should help us" "volunteers to the front" bs?
    Haven't seen any good info in Russian about it, and I don't speak Armenian so those resources are unavailable.
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    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:30 pm

    If Aliev is smart, he'd be wise not to agitate the grizzly bear:
    Aliev accused the Russian base in Gyumri of supplying weapons to the Armenian army
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:08 pm

    Maximmmm wrote:I'd love to be able to know what the political situation in Armenia is right now. To us it seems like Pasha has this on lockdown, but maybe there's a chance he gets kicked out?
    Do the regular people understand what's going on, or are they buying the "the west will help us" "Russia should help us" "volunteers to the front" bs?
    Haven't seen any good info in Russian about it, and I don't speak Armenian so those resources are unavailable.

    https://twitter.com/ghost_watcher1/status/1320313685127188480?s=20

    Russians in Laçin area.

    Again, Pash might well get the boot and for many reasons, but Russia is likely to feel the backlash as well.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1321138653679308800?s=20

    Armenians looting Az forces. One replies to a phone call, says to AZ mom/wife they're Armenians.

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    Post  Maximmmm Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:00 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Maximmmm wrote:I'd love to be able to know what the political situation in Armenia is right now. To us it seems like Pasha has this on lockdown, but maybe there's a chance he gets kicked out?
    Do the regular people understand what's going on, or are they buying the "the west will help us" "Russia should help us" "volunteers to the front" bs?
    Haven't seen any good info in Russian about it, and I don't speak Armenian so those resources are unavailable.

    https://twitter.com/ghost_watcher1/status/1320313685127188480?s=20

    Russians in Laçin area.

    Again, Pash might well get the boot and for many reasons, but Russia is likely to feel the backlash as well.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1321138653679308800?s=20

    Armenians looting Az forces. One replies to a phone call, says to AZ mom/wife they're Armenians.


    Oof that's a rough way to find out your family member died. Also, when in doubt switch to Russian.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:12 pm

    US-Brokered Truce in Karabakh Breaks Down
     Arms, Oil, and Iran – Israel's Role in Nagorno-Karabakh  
     2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 6 Blkbullet1 Russia Knocking Turkish Drones From Armenian Skies
     2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war #2 - Page 6 Blkbullet1 Civilians Suffer Amid Nagorno-Karabakh Conflict
    Armed Villagers Guard Strategic Gateway to Nagorno-Karabakh
    Surrounded by Rubble, Azerbaijanis Mourn Their Losses
    https://vz.ru/world/2020/10/27/1067238.html
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:04 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote: Russia is indeed holding back because it has the upper hand in the escalation process. That is a dangerous gamble. ...

    They have no reason to escalate

    Armenia clearly doesn't see this situation as too serious so why should Russia barge in uninvited?



    KoTeMoRe wrote: Russia is being cynical wrt to Armenia and is betting on its current protector role AFTER this conflict. This would mean that Russia is expecting ARM population to reject Pash, while they might as well (and this is my opinion) reject an useless Russia (in their eyes).....

    Armenian population can reject useless Russia and it would not cost Russia one cent

    But they should be better prepared for all out war with Turkey down the road than they are for this tiny skirmish with Azerbaijan



    KoTeMoRe wrote: What Armenians chose and what Russia's role in Armenia is are related, but also reciprocating. Russia can let Armenians get slaughtered and pretend it has its hands tied by legal concerns, but it clearly has issues with that approach given what it just did in Syria. ....


    What the did in Syria furthers Russian national interests

    Walking into the trap set up by EU and Armenians does not



    KoTeMoRe wrote:Furthermore, I repeat the issue, it hasn't anything to do with Karabagh, but with the principle of quandary. Russia is not supposed to be the quandary of the region. It is supposed to be fucking Alexander and cut the Gordian knot. Here they literally are letting the Turks get into the negotiation table regarding Artsakh while the Minsk table is already FULL. ....

    There is no knot to cut here

    Karabah is rightful Azeri territory and everyone on this planet agrees, Armenians first and foremost



    KoTeMoRe wrote: Russia doesn't owe at anyone anything, the same way Armenians do not owe Russia its two bases in Guymri & Erevan, which are literally tripwires vs Turkey. ....

    Armenians are welcome to ask Russians to leave those bases (and to make accommodations for Turkish military which would take their place there immediately afterwards)



    Fact remains that Armenia is acting in bad faith here and that Russia gains more by not getting involved

    If Russians storm in now they will be vindicating current Armenian government which would use first available opportunity to again switch cams and blame Russia both for losses in NK and for acting like militant meddler

    But if they wait and let Armenians taste their own medicine they get to have Armenia served on the platter with pro-EU elements removed from equation and to keep good relations with Azeris (who unlike Armenians were always upfront about what they want)

    miketheterrible and LMFS like this post

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    Post  Tsavo Lion Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:48 pm

    Karabah is rightful Azeri territory and everyone on this planet agrees, Armenians first and foremost
    No, Armenians claimed NK back in 1988, & they + the diaspora certainly don't consider it as Azeri now. The areas around it since 1994 they occupied is to protect it from Azeri attempts to invade it. This is similar to US recognizing Taiwan as part of 1 China but supporting it militarily & politically to stay independent of CCP control.

    https://www.pravdareport.com/world/145177-russia_turkey_war/

    France & Greece could keep Turkey busy in the E. Med, thus helping Armenia:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTnf1WC-oQs
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:01 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:
    Karabah is rightful Azeri territory and everyone on this planet agrees, Armenians first and foremost
    No, Armenians claimed NK back in 1988, & they + the diaspora certainly don't consider it as Azeri now....

    Wrong

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Artsakh#Recognition_process

    No UN member states have recognised Artsakh...

    No UN members includes Armenia

    According to Armenia itself it's Azeri territory, case closed


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