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I know, that is why when anything seemingly major happens, Marinka for example, I turn the eye of Sauron to Volnovakha front. But really it's not difficult to guess as the options for attack by ukrops are rather limited, as they also are by VSN, it is all in the timing and how good the maskirovka is. seven more weeks, or less, I still stand by that.whir wrote:No, but there has to be more than meets the eye, the concentration of troops and hardware that Kiev is amassing indicates that it's not gearing up just to continue their daily shelling.Khepesh wrote:this is wrong?
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58 posters
The Situation in the Ukraine. #15
Khepesh- Posts : 1666
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Rodinazombie- Posts : 575
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Khepesh
I agree pretty much with the above, so tell me, what are your solutions to the problems at hand?
I agree pretty much with the above, so tell me, what are your solutions to the problems at hand?
Werewolf- Posts : 5919
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Rodinazombie wrote:
That ship has sailed, ukraine isnt coming back to russia, ever.
The most you can hope for is a neutral ukraine even after this gang of thieves has moved on. Anyone who really thinks that russia will ever gain ukraine back as a 'partner' is seriously deluded in my opinion.
Putin has to tread a fine line here and I think we all accept that, his strategy is more or less correct but he is walking just slightly on the wrong side of the line as ive said before.
Im not talking about any stupid invasion ideas, with russian tanks rolling down the maidan, he can still implement his strategy as it is now, but there has to be a base level that there is no civilians being killed by ukraine. That simply has to stop.
Nothing is over. It is easily perception. A, people have to understand this is the West killing russians with oligarchs and jews dictating nazis against russians. As soon as Ukraine is back to russia where it belongs it only needs one single generation of people, just like only one single generation was enough to create a Nazi ukraine against its own people, one single generation is enough to civilize the next coming generation, we know it works we have seen it, period. Hunt down every single oligarch, western puppet and nazi and execute them, bring harsh law enforcement against anyone that glorifies galicia, nazis, stepan bandera while reinforcing panslavism inside RF and Kazakhstan and Belarus. Destroy any NGO financed by governments or private organisations with ties to governments or regime change.
All russia needs to do is waiting for entire default of ukraine, overthrow subhuman scum nazi junta and seize it again, banning of any right wing, liberal parties in ukraine like the jewish scum parties of Timoshenko, Klitschko, Yarosh and other Jewish oligarch financed parties which use nazi retards as their weapon.
As a person who does understand strategy and warfare from 20 years in army at command level, I ask why it is so difficult, so "wrong", to push back enemy artillery bombarding your city, particulary when they are already in clear violation of Minsk agreements. Minsk is already broken, how broken does it have to be, how many lives lost before simply pushing back enemy artillery can be done. I have not called for advance to Kiev or even the Dnepr, simply to remove the threat of artillery bombardment to Donetsk, this is wrong?
Minsk can't be broken by Ukraine! (c) You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. So yeah I can't be more broken than it is, but it only matters when Russia does it.
Cahaba- Posts : 14
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whir wrote:TASS wrote:Kiev digs 100 kilometers of anti-tank ditches on border with Russia — PM
World June 15, 12:52 UTC+3
Ukraine's Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk noted that full control over the Ukrainian-Russian border is required by the Minsk agreements
KIEV, June 15. /TASS/. Ukraine has equipped more than 100 kilometers of anti-tank ditches on the border with Russia as part of the European Wall project, Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said on Monday. He was speaking during the ceremony of the handover of vehicles and equipment to the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine provided by the European Union.
"Over the past few months, more than one hundred kilometers of anti-tank ditches, 50 watchtowers and about 400 kilometers of exclusion zone have been equipped. Ukraine is building a high-quality state border," he said.
Yatsenyuk noted that, in accordance with the Minsk agreements, "full control over the Ukrainian-Russian border" had to be restored.
"To make the Ukrainian Border Guard Service truly European and to ensure that it fulfills its tasks to prevent illegal border crossing and control over it, our European partners have allocated a significant amount of financial resources used for purchasing new equipment, vehicles and new control systems," the Ukrainian prime minister said.
The European Wall is a unilateral initiative by the authorities in Kiev to equip Ukraine’s border with Russia. The project initially called The Wall envisages construction of trenches, ditches as well as special facilities. Continue reading.
I never thought I would witness NATO setting itself up as the new Soviet Union by rebuilding the Iron Curtain.
Flagship Victory- Posts : 973
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June, 15, Donetsk, DPR
Desperate protesters in the center of Donetsk demand to protect them from Ukrainian Army and start an offensive at Ukrainian positions. A sporadic rally is taking place in Donetsk at the building of the Regional Administration. Inhabitants of Oktyabrskiy settlement are taking part in the manifestation.
Witnesses report that the dwellers of the settlement subjected to regular shelling by Ukrainian military have blocked Artem Street.
"There are no leaders and no single demand at the rally. Some people demand driving of Ukrainians away from the residential areas, others demand the offensive along the entire front line", — commented a reporter from the scene. Several passers-by addressed the women blocking the traffic: "Let the cars pass". The answer is:
"And you provide us with residences away from the shelled areas first!". About 200 people participate in the rally. They are being asked "to adhere to the Minsk format" from the police car with the help of a loudspeaker. Neither the protesters, nor the DPR officials have a distinct stand.
As far as Oktyabrskiy settlement is concerned: only in the last 24 hours 10 civilians there were wounded, at least two died in a week. Oktyabrskiy is situated in Kuybyshevskiy district of Donetsk. It is subjected to regular shelling on the part of Ukrainian heavy artillery.
At 13:30 PM Aleksandr Zakharchenko addressed the rally.
Updates will follow.
https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine
Desperate protesters in the center of Donetsk demand to protect them from Ukrainian Army and start an offensive at Ukrainian positions. A sporadic rally is taking place in Donetsk at the building of the Regional Administration. Inhabitants of Oktyabrskiy settlement are taking part in the manifestation.
Witnesses report that the dwellers of the settlement subjected to regular shelling by Ukrainian military have blocked Artem Street.
"There are no leaders and no single demand at the rally. Some people demand driving of Ukrainians away from the residential areas, others demand the offensive along the entire front line", — commented a reporter from the scene. Several passers-by addressed the women blocking the traffic: "Let the cars pass". The answer is:
"And you provide us with residences away from the shelled areas first!". About 200 people participate in the rally. They are being asked "to adhere to the Minsk format" from the police car with the help of a loudspeaker. Neither the protesters, nor the DPR officials have a distinct stand.
As far as Oktyabrskiy settlement is concerned: only in the last 24 hours 10 civilians there were wounded, at least two died in a week. Oktyabrskiy is situated in Kuybyshevskiy district of Donetsk. It is subjected to regular shelling on the part of Ukrainian heavy artillery.
At 13:30 PM Aleksandr Zakharchenko addressed the rally.
Updates will follow.
https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine
whir- Posts : 826
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Ukraine is a winner takes all game, that's the masterplan for everyone.Khepesh wrote:The "cunning plan".
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I think Maidan is going to increase shelling. Pions are being moved to near Donetsk. It's terrible that Maidan uses Pions on civilians while Putin does not allow NAF to fire back. Maidan is made up of the worst homicides on the face of the planet.
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According to Interpretermag, Zackarchenko has asked to resign.
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-483-2-ukrainian-soldiers-killed-2-civilians-wounded-yesterday/
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-483-2-ukrainian-soldiers-killed-2-civilians-wounded-yesterday/
whir- Posts : 826
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Луганский Информационный Центр wrote:Press conference of employees of the Ukrainian embassy in France, the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine
novayagazeta wrote:Zakharchenko calms People's Assembly to end the war in the Donbas
Khepesh- Posts : 1666
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Above my pay grade, thank godRodinazombie wrote:Khepesh
I agree pretty much with the above, so tell me, what are your solutions to the problems at hand?
But otherwise a soft option is that much more attention to spreading the truth must be made by foreign ministry, Lavrov himself and ambassadors in all countries. What happens on forums etc is rather irrelevant, even the massive viewing numbers on the "butthurt thread", 23 million total by the end. But embassadors are in the position, it is actually part of their job, to engage with the countries they are in, to appear on TV and radio shows, to write to newspapers. Yes, the Anglophone countries will ignore them, not print letters etc, but the anglos are a lost cause, their minds are fully closed, but the rest of the world is not.
The hard option, in conjunction with the above, is that Zakharchenko needs to be much more noisy in condeming the bombardment, after all, it really is bad and nothing needs to be falsified. He should give warnings that Minsk has been broken, but that DNR does not want to engage in any war with Kiev but must ensure the security of it's citizens. He is in a good position to use Sarajevo as an example and remind the west that they screamed and shouted about what happened there. He should give clear warnings and engage with those western journalists that will bother to speak to him, that continued bombardment of Donetsk cannot be allowed to happen and that there will be consequences for the forces of Kiev involved in the bombardment if they do not stop and comply with Minsk-2. These warning should be clear that any action will only be to remove the threat of bombardment to Donetsk, and they should be made loudly and often. Lists of those civilians who have died or been wounded should be published. Finally it should be made clear that any action will be done by VSN, and it made clear that while there are volunteers from Russia, it is pointless denying that, there are no Russian Army formations in Donbass and that it is locals who will save themselves. Not one word of this will be published or shown in anglophone countries, but will, to a degree, in EU countries and more so outside Europe. Then attack. But here is the real difficulty for it will not simply be an operation to remove artillery, it cannot be, and full scale fighting will break out along the entire Donbass front within hours. Perhaps here is the reason why some here disagree with me wanting to remove ukrops artillery as they know it will actually be the war resuming in full force. But it will anyway, and while it would be a propaganda advantage for Kiev to attack first, waiting for this attack means they will be stronger when it comes and many more civilians will have been killed. It is hoped that ukrops will launch the attack soon, or be "induced" to launch an attack that will intially have some success, but not Marinka, not Gorlovka, not any part of Donetsk city, somewhere else.
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Maidan borderguards received 7 million euros worth of equipment from the EU.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-border-guards-receive-7-million-euro-worth-of-equipment-from-eu-391151.html
I think thermal binoculars can be a game changer. 7 million euros might not seem much, but it can buy hundreds of thermal binoculars.
Nuland says the US still undecided about supply of arms to Maidan.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/us-still-undecided-on-supply-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine-diplomat-391150.html
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-border-guards-receive-7-million-euro-worth-of-equipment-from-eu-391151.html
I think thermal binoculars can be a game changer. 7 million euros might not seem much, but it can buy hundreds of thermal binoculars.
Nuland says the US still undecided about supply of arms to Maidan.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/us-still-undecided-on-supply-of-lethal-weapons-to-ukraine-diplomat-391150.html
Karl Haushofer- Posts : 1109
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Pretty good sum up.Khepesh wrote:The "cunning plan". It does not exist, it never existed, perhaps it exists now, I do not know. What happened in Kiev last year was a surprise, Putin himself has said so and that the operation to secure Crimea was "made on the hoof", and very cleverly. I suspect it was thought that the uprisings in Donbass, particulary Kharkov, would succeed and that Ukraine would have collapsed at that point, and from there we can only guess at what would have unfolded. That Kharkov did not fall will have been a surprise and is probably the reason we are now in difficulty. Some plan was of course developed, but rushed and perhaps with only the intention of trying to stabilise the situation, not accomplish any long term strategic objectives at that point. Slavyansk was a brilliant operation to distract attention and allow defensive forces to be formed to allow Donetsk and Lugansk to survive at least in the short term. So, what can we see as any sort of plan? Well it is clear from voentorg and what happened last August and at Debaltsevo that Donbass will not be merged. From this I suspect that it is hoped that Kiev will realise that they have lost at least Donetsk and Lugansk, and will find a way to save face and withdraw. Enter Washington, again, and irrationality enters and upsets everything. Yes, I see that to sit and wait for Kiev to collapse and then pick up the pieces is a good plan, but it is predicated on Kiev actually collapsing. Until the end of last year I went with this, but not now, I do not see Kiev being allowed to collapse, no matter what the cost, as having what is left of Ukraine as an American colony is far too important to loose. I know that there is the argument to sit and wait as time is on our side, and again I went with this until the end of last year, but my comments about Washington not wanting to loose the possibility of gaining Ukraine negate that view and I now that think that time is not on our side, but on that of Washington and that the later we leave this, then the worse the outcome. One aspect I will dismiss, and that is what the west thinks, and that eventually the west will see Kiev for what it is and throw them. The west does not think about Ukraine, it does not care. They have been told that Russia has invaded Ukraine and that Russia is Soviet Union v2.0 and that is what they will continue to believe so waiting for them to "see the light", is futile. The other aspect that we can sort of see, and presume is the plan, is to sit and wait for Kiev to collapse, yet what happens when days pass to weeks to months to a year or more, and no collapse? What other plan is there, anything other than simply hoping EU will wake up and stop taking orders from washington, do not bet on this. Hoping that Kiev will collapse, well, maybe, but anything seen to say this is likely, not that I see, only continued and increasing support from Washington. If the "cunning plan" is sit and wait, then we wait for US Army to return in strength to Europe, and they already negotiate to do this, and I believe that no matter what happens in Ukraine we will soon have coldwar v2.0. Personally I actually admire Putin, I think he is by far the best leader of any country, but he is not God, and I think he is in a bind over Ukraine and struggles to find a solution. I don't think waiting is the solution and I do not think that an operation to push back ukrops artillery from Donetsk will cause any more problems than there are already other than wailing and gnawing, let them.
The fact that the IMF will keep pouring money into Ukraine even after Ukraine has defaulted to its previous debts is a clear indication that the West will keep Ukraine "alive" and enable it's war machine to continue shelling and attacking Donbass. This will cost the Western tax payer some money, but for the United States (who controls the whole Europe) the benefits greatly outweigth the costs. The benefits include forcing Russia to live in a "stress" situation for years or decades to come. The Donbass war inflicts a lot of stress to Russia as a nation, having to watch their compatriots being killed just across the border without being able to stop it. This is both stressful and humiliating. Other benefit is that it will "justify" any further sanctions against Russia and justify economic and political isolation of Russia. Any gains that the Donbass rebels make will give the West a reason to further sanction and isolate Russia. The war has also given the NATO a perfect excuse to bring more heavy weapons to Baltic states (that will receive 5,000 US troops and heavy arms).
My thought is that Russia is now in a situation where it does not know what to do next. Russia cannot allow the Donbass rebels to fall since it would mean losing whole Ukraine and a US military base in Donetsk. This would be inexcusable and a major defeat for Russia. On the other hand Russia is still too dependent on the Western trade, and many wealthy and influential Russians have lots of stake here. They would love to have the relations to return to "normal" (as "normal" as Russian-Western relations can ever be). Russian oil firms are losing big money especially in the Arctic region where investments have been delayed due to sanctions on Western drilling technology. Gazprom gets most of its profit from sales to European Union. The West can threaten Russia with many levels and if those threats are carried through it would hurt Russia a lot more than it would hurt the West.
The basic problem for Russia is that it is more dependent on the West than the West is on Russia. Russia would survive as a nation without Western trade, but the standard of living would go down a lot and Russia could have more internal troubles especially in the Caucasus region if money flows are closed.
Russia is not in a good position right now because it has only bad options:
1. Fully back Donbass rebels. Russia could drive Kiev out of whole Donbass (including Slavyansk and Mariupol) and then freeze the conflict without going further into Ukrainet. The economic and political costs would be a lot bigger than they are now, but the war would probably end as Ukraine's military would be decimated. This carries a lot of risks but I still see this as the best option. The West is clearly treating Russia as an enemy and wants to defeat Russia. The more concessions Russia makes, the more demands will follow.
2. Continue a low level support for the Donbass rebels. This is the worst option for the Donbass people because the war will continue for years. The West would also have an excuse to carry on with the sanctions for years and build up more NATO military bases near Russia.
3. Complete surrender of Donbass to Kiev. This would be the worst option for Russia obviously. The sanctions would not go anywhere since Crimea would still be in Russia's hands. On the other hand Russia would have accepted a military defeat on its borders and a hostile regime to take over a Russia-friendly and ethnic Russian major city without real fight. This would be a signal of Russia's weakness and also a clear path for the NATO to take all of Ukraine under its military wing and as a launchpad for military aggressions against Russia.
I think Russia is still not ready or strong enough for the option 1, so they are trying to cling on with option 2 for as long as they can. And this is having tragic consequences for the Donbass people.
Khepesh- Posts : 1666
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This is simply idle thought, not really serious. So, the angry crowd of citizens on the streets demanding action to stop the bombardment, Zakharchenko calms them, sort of. But when the bombardment continues, what to do? "Well", says Zakharchenko, "I am the servant of the people, they elected me and I must do as they say and they say stop the bombardment. The people demand action, so there will be action". Totaly unrelated, Surkov was in Donbass yesterday apparently making personel changes, today an angry crowd suddenly appears on the street, something I have not seen like this before. Action or inaction, toss a coin, see what side it lands. Coin still spinning in the air, lets wait to see. Simply idle thoughts is all, nothing more.
Rodinazombie- Posts : 575
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^^^^ spot on there
With number three the west would simply smell blood and exploit russias weakness, its already been the case where the west demands that russia stop 'its aggression' in donbass, russia responds with not one, but TWO peace agreements but they are still treated with scorn and have sanctions thrown at them. The west isnt interested in whats fair, its interested in winning.
Your first option is the best one, lets face it, whilst there is fighting ongoing the sanctions and anti russia hysteria are going nowhere, so getting business 'back to normal' is in impossibility in this climate. The only way to get there is to stop the fighting once and for all, if that means a short, sharper shock to the system, then so be it.
With number three the west would simply smell blood and exploit russias weakness, its already been the case where the west demands that russia stop 'its aggression' in donbass, russia responds with not one, but TWO peace agreements but they are still treated with scorn and have sanctions thrown at them. The west isnt interested in whats fair, its interested in winning.
Your first option is the best one, lets face it, whilst there is fighting ongoing the sanctions and anti russia hysteria are going nowhere, so getting business 'back to normal' is in impossibility in this climate. The only way to get there is to stop the fighting once and for all, if that means a short, sharper shock to the system, then so be it.
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Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^ spot on there
With number three the west would simply smell blood and exploit russias weakness, its already been the case where the west demands that russia stop 'its aggression' in donbass, russia responds with not one, but TWO peace agreements but they are still treated with scorn and have sanctions thrown at them. The west isnt interested in whats fair, its interested in winning.
Your first option is the best one, lets face it, whilst there is fighting ongoing the sanctions and anti russia hysteria are going nowhere, so getting business 'back to normal' is in impossibility in this climate. The only way to get there is to stop the fighting once and for all, if that means a short, sharper shock to the system, then so be it.
Option 1 may have been possible last year, but I don't think it's feasible anymore. Look at Marinka, heavily fortified. NAF suffered huge casualties there, and that's 1 tiny little village. If a tiny village is that hard, can you imagine how hard it would be to take Kiev?
The Minsk ceasefires enables Maidan to recruit, train, arm, fortify. Look at the numbers game. Maidan has 40 million people. NAF controlled Donbas only has 3 million people. That's more than 10 to 1. Plus, NAF controlled Donbas is shelled everyday, economy almost gone. Maidan controlled Ukraine is intact and fully functional, is fully backed by IMF, the US, the EU. It is suicide if NAF tries to fight back against Maidan.
Last edited by Flagship Victory on Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Flagship Victory wrote:Rodinazombie wrote:^^^^ spot on there
With number three the west would simply smell blood and exploit russias weakness, its already been the case where the west demands that russia stop 'its aggression' in donbass, russia responds with not one, but TWO peace agreements but they are still treated with scorn and have sanctions thrown at them. The west isnt interested in whats fair, its interested in winning.
Your first option is the best one, lets face it, whilst there is fighting ongoing the sanctions and anti russia hysteria are going nowhere, so getting business 'back to normal' is in impossibility in this climate. The only way to get there is to stop the fighting once and for all, if that means a short, sharper shock to the system, then so be it.
Option 1 may have been possible last year, but I don't think it's feasible anymore. Look at Marinka, heavily fortified. NAF suffered huge casualties there, and that's 1 tiny little village. If a tiny village is that hard, can you imagine how hard it would be to take Kiev?
Nobody is talking about kiev, that would be a stupid thing to attempt.
UA military needs to be pushed out of range of donetsk, lugansk etc, thats all.
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Rodinazombie wrote:Nobody is talking about kiev, that would be a stupid thing to attempt.
UA military needs to be pushed out of range of donetsk, lugansk etc, thats all.
Maidan controls Kiev. Unless NAF takes Kiev, the killings won't end. Simple as that. Even if UA military is out of artillery range. The US would supply Tomahawk missiles to Maidan to bomb Donetsk.
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Military drills in Belarus near the Ukrainian border is a direct response to the Ukrops relentless shelling. It's a good scare tactic for the Kiev regime. Moscow should have done this a long time ago. Increased military drills in Transnistira and in Belarus right on the border of Ukraine should calm the idiots in Kiev. There are already sanctions in place against Belarus so essentially there's not much the West can do in case Lukashenko decides to provocate the Ukrainian border and I think Putin will exploit this advantage.
This is how I see the scenario in which the NAF get a greenlight to advance on Ukrops positions: massive simultaneous drills in Transnistria and Belarus which will confuse the fuck out of Kiev and shortly after that an advance from the NAF.
This is how I see the scenario in which the NAF get a greenlight to advance on Ukrops positions: massive simultaneous drills in Transnistria and Belarus which will confuse the fuck out of Kiev and shortly after that an advance from the NAF.
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Neutrality wrote:Military drills in Belarus near the Ukrainian border is a direct response to the Ukrops relentless shelling. It's a good scare tactic for the Kiev regime. Moscow should have done this a long time ago. Increased military drills in Transnistira and in Belarus right on the border of Ukraine should calm the idiots in Kiev. There are already sanctions in place against Belarus so essentially there's not much the West can do in case Lukashenko decides to provocate the Ukrainian border and I think Putin will exploit this advantage.
This is how I see the scenario in which the NAF get a greenlight to advance on Ukrops positions: massive simultaneous drills in Transnistria and Belarus which will confuse the fuck out of Kiev and shortly after that an advance from the NAF.
I'm afraid this won't deter Maidan. Last year in April when Russia massed troops on the border with Maidan, Maidan got scared and momentarily stopped advancing on Slavyansk. When it became apparent Russia would not do anything, Maidan advanced on Slavyansk. Maidan knows Russia cannot do anything because or else the EU will stop buying gas from Russia.
Anyone know if Maidan is using Pions on Donetsk?
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It is possible if Russian military officially enters war (as it should). There should be an official demand from Russia for Ukraine to cease all hostilities and if the demand is not met, then Russian military (including the airforce) will enter.Flagship Victory wrote:
Option 1 may have been possible last year, but I don't think it's feasible anymore. Look at Marinka, heavily fortified. NAF suffered huge casualties there, and that's 1 tiny little village. If a tiny village is that hard, can you imagine how hard it would be to take Kiev?
I think that most of the Ukrainian military would flee/quit and only the fanatics in volunteer battalions would fight.
Yes, it would be a very risky move mainly due to western reaction. Would the NATO enter the war as well or stay aside? I cannot answer to this.
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Karl Haushofer wrote:It is possible if Russian military officially enters war (as it should). There should be an official demand from Russia for Ukraine to cease all hostilities and if the demand is not met, then Russian military (including the airforce) will enter.
I think that most of the Ukrainian military would flee/quit and only the fanatics in volunteer battalions would fight.
Yes, it would be a very risky move mainly due to western reaction. Would the NATO enter the war as well or stay aside? I cannot answer to this.
NATO? Well duh. NATO bombed the s out of Serbia to drive Serbian troops out of Kosovo. Russia cannot get involved in Donbas because Russia depends on the EU buying gas.
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Flagship Victory wrote:Neutrality wrote:Military drills in Belarus near the Ukrainian border is a direct response to the Ukrops relentless shelling. It's a good scare tactic for the Kiev regime. Moscow should have done this a long time ago. Increased military drills in Transnistira and in Belarus right on the border of Ukraine should calm the idiots in Kiev. There are already sanctions in place against Belarus so essentially there's not much the West can do in case Lukashenko decides to provocate the Ukrainian border and I think Putin will exploit this advantage.
This is how I see the scenario in which the NAF get a greenlight to advance on Ukrops positions: massive simultaneous drills in Transnistria and Belarus which will confuse the fuck out of Kiev and shortly after that an advance from the NAF.
I'm afraid this won't deter Maidan. Last year in April when Russia massed troops on the border with Maidan, Maidan got scared and momentarily stopped advancing on Slavyansk. When it became apparent Russia would not do anything, Maidan advanced on Slavyansk. Maidan knows Russia cannot do anything because or else the EU will stop buying gas from Russia.
Anyone know if Maidan is using Pions on Donetsk?
Where precisely Belarus comes into place. Belarus can play the same shenanigans about the looming Ukrainian "aggression" on its borders and the West will have to deal with a country which plays by their rules. In case the US and EU start blaming Russia for forcing Belarus into this the Russians will simply tell them that Belarus is a sovereign country which has every right to protect its own interests. I think we're greatly underestimating and missing this potential.
Flagship Victory- Posts : 973
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Belarus is itself a very small country, about the size of Israel. I don't think Maidan is scared of Belarus at all. 
Werewolf- Posts : 5919
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Flagship Victory wrote:Belarus is itself a very small country, about the size of Israel. I don't think Maidan is scared of Belarus at all.
Did you learn geography in US?
Belarus is smaller than Iraq but larger than Israel in several times.
Israel 22.380 km²
Belarus 207.595 km²
auslander- Posts : 1637
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Werewolf wrote:Flagship Victory wrote:Belarus is itself a very small country, about the size of Israel. I don't think Maidan is scared of Belarus at all.
Did you learn geography in US?
Belarus is smaller than Iraq but larger than Israel in several times.
Israel 22.380 km²
Belarus 207.595 km²
Sigh. If you stop feeding the junior high trolls eventually they dry up and go back to playing pakman.
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