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    MiG-29K: News and info

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    medo
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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  medo on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:43 pm

    http://nguyenphutrong.net/trung-quoc-lo-ngai-ten-lua-sat-thu-cua-viet-nam.html

    Cục thiết kế Zvezda đã phát triển thêm các biển thể mới của Kh-31A như: Kh-31AD (kích thước lớn hơn, lắp radar chủ động cải tiến ARGS-31E, tầm bắn tăng lên 100km); Kh-31AM (nâng cấp hệ thống điện tử để chống lại biện pháp đối phó của đối phương, cải tiến động cơ để tăng tầm bắn nhưng không tăng trọng lượng).

    Zvezda Design Bureau has developed a new variant of the Kh-31A as: Kh-31AD (larger size, improved active radar installation ARGS-31E, increasing the range to 100 km); Kh-31AM (avionics upgrade for countermeasures against the enemy, engine improvements to increase range but did not increase the weight).

    Vietnamese source claim, that Kh-31AD have increased range to 100 km, but this could still be export missile. Difficult to say, but domestic Kh-31AM could have similar range as basic Kh-35 missile (~130 km). Maybe little less. Point is, that Kh-31AM fly at max speed 3600 km/h (Mach 3), while Kh-35 is subsonic (Mach 0,8 ) and is more vulnerable to ship's missile defense and CIWS.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:48 pm

    As TR1 said: the kh-35 has a range of Up to 260 km.


    But i dont know Much About the missiles ( GarryB does ) i just love the aircraft Wink

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:54 pm

    I imagine Kh-35 has a better sea skimming profile however, so that counts for something.

    Regarding published specs:
    Kh-31A: 70km range, 94kg warhead, 610kg weight
    Kh-31AD: 160km range, 110 kg warhead, 715kg weight

    Kh-35E: 130km range, 145kg warhead, weight up to 610kg
    Kh-35UE: 260km range, 145 kg warhead, weight up to 670kg

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:00 pm

    Kh-35UE Seems the best missile to me! ( but then you've got its slow speed :/ )
    Will the russian navy use Brahmos mini in the future for their Migs?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:08 pm

    Probably not, they like to go all domestic. Not to mention they can probably make something better if they really want it.

    Too soon to tell however. Also it should be noted RuNavy has no stock of R-77s, and has not bought RVV-SD yet....

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:12 pm

    TR1 wrote:Probably not, they like to go all domestic. Not to mention they can probably make something better if they really want it.

    Too soon to tell however. Also it should be noted RuNavy has no stock of R-77s, and has not bought RVV-SD yet....

    But didn't Russian navy mig-29k's train with r-77 missiles onboard the Vikramaditya?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:21 pm

    Flyingdutchman wrote:Kh-35UE Seems the best missile to me!
    Will the russian navy use Brahmos mini in the future for their Migs?

    Most likely not due to the idiotic MTCR treaty which Russia is stupidly apart of, so Brahmos missile's full potential is greatly handicapped as it's range is greatly limited to meet MTCR guidelines and does not meet RuNavy requirements in range...however in all likeliness most of the testing India is conducting on Brahmos and the technological advancements can be applied to Onyx, meaning future iterations of Onyx will likely have increased precision/accuracy and possible land attack capability (all though it will have to take a back seat to Kalibr missiles for the land attack role) so it could potentially evolve in to Brahmos but with much greater range.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  medo on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:45 pm

    I would say Kh-31AD with 160 km range is better option than Kh-35 for MiG-29K. Range is still long enough to launch missiles out from the range of SAMs on ships, even like SAMP/T. But to attack destroyers or cruisers equipped with latest models of Standard missiles, it is better to use bigger Flankers like Su-30SM or Su-33 with bigger air launched Club missiles with 600+ km range.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:04 pm

    medo wrote:I would say Kh-31AD with 160 km range is better option than Kh-35 for MiG-29K. Range is still long enough to launch missiles out from the range of SAMs on ships, even like SAMP/T. But to attack destroyers or cruisers equipped with latest models of Standard missiles, it is better to use bigger Flankers like Su-30SM or Su-33 with bigger air launched Club missiles with 600+ km range.

    If your going to attack destroyers and cruisers you might as well go with the big guns, like a Tu-22m3 loaded with 3 Kh-32 air-launched ballistic missiles!

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:19 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    medo wrote:I would say Kh-31AD with 160 km range is better option than Kh-35 for MiG-29K. Range is still long enough to launch missiles out from the range of SAMs on ships, even like SAMP/T. But to attack destroyers or cruisers equipped with latest models of Standard missiles, it is better to use bigger Flankers like Su-30SM or Su-33 with bigger air launched Club missiles with 600+ km range.

    If your going to attack destroyers and cruisers you might as well go with the big guns, like a Tu-22m3 loaded with 3 Kh-32 air-launched ballistic missiles!

     Shocked 

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Werewolf on Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:07 am



    KH-35E

    http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/512/372/

    Ship and land based have up to 130km,

    Aircraft and Heliborne are in figures of 40km (Heliborne) and around 100-120km for aircraft.

    Same goes for KH-35UE, the heliborne are not as far reaching with about 70-80km.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:27 pm

    Kh-35UE Seems the best missile to me! ( but then you've got its slow speed :/ )
    Will the russian navy use Brahmos mini in the future for their Migs?

    Speed is good for an already alert target, so it would be best to attack first with Kh-35UD and then return to carrier and then have the next flight get a little closer and launch Kh-31AD and also Kh-31PD which is the long range anti radiation model.

    You could time it so the first subsonic low flying missiles hit and then the high speed anti radiation missiles come in to deal with the radar sources, or deliver them so they all arrive at once and hope the high speed high flight profile ARMs distract the ships from the low speed low altitude missiles trying to sink them.

    The Kh-35UD comes in below 4m above the wave tops and will be difficult to spot.

    Regarding mini Brahmos... I remember a while back seeing a small short Kh-35 model that looked like a shorter lighter missile in the Sea Skua class designed for light helos and small patrol boats... so anything is possible.

    Also it should be noted RuNavy has no stock of R-77s, and has not bought RVV-SD yet..

    they will likely have already bought some for tests with the MiG-29K2.

    Also their Su-30Ms.

    Most likely not due to the idiotic MTCR treaty which Russia is stupidly apart of, so Brahmos missile's full potential is greatly handicapped as it's range is greatly limited to meet MTCR guidelines and does not meet RuNavy requirements in range..

    A reduced size mach 3 missile would be useful for the export market as not all Russian client states have Flankers to carry 2.5 ton missiles. An adapted small sized Onyx would likely be useful and as development will likely be paid for by the Russian and Indian governments it would make sense to adapt a domestic version.

    The upgrades to Yakhont to produce Brahmos will most likely be applied to late model Onyx missiles too.

    Ship and land based have up to 130km,

    Aircraft and Heliborne are in figures of 40km (Heliborne) and around 100-120km for aircraft.

    Same goes for KH-35UE, the heliborne are not as far reaching with about 70-80km.

    We are talking about Russian MiG-29Ks which wont be using export model missiles... Smile


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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:38 pm

    GarryB wrote:



    they will likely have already bought some for tests with the MiG-29K2.

    Also their su-30Ms.


    What missile are you Talking About? Very Happy

    Because the mig-29k2s have already flown with r-77 or do you mean that other missile?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  medo on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:17 pm

    How many MiG-29K will be stationed on Kuznetsov carrier? Will they also keep some Su-33 on carrier for bigger missiles like Club? MiG-29K is good multirole fighter, but for fleet defense some Su-33 could be still usefull.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:42 pm

    medo wrote:How many MiG-29K will be stationed on Kuznetsov carrier? Will they also keep some Su-33 on carrier for bigger missiles like Club? MiG-29K is good multirole fighter, but for fleet defense some Su-33 could be still usefull.

    No, SU-33s will return to land bases, i dont know how many Migs will be stationed on a cruise.
    I think they won't station all 24 mig-29s on the K, probably just a squadron ( 12 ) ( ten single-seat and two tandem seat ) Very Happy.

    Altough the Russian navy has some older Mig-29ks so maybe they will station them all   Question 

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  TR1 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:24 pm

    The Russian navy has zero old MiG-29Ks.

    The only prototypes are owned by MiG.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:11 pm



    What is the aircraft at 2:39?
    Seems an older aircraft to me?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:13 am

    What missile are you Talking About? Very Happy

    Because the mig-29k2s have already flown with r-77 or do you mean that other missile?

    With land based Su-24 and Tu-22M3 and Il-38 aircraft and sea based Su-33 which is pretty much just an Su-27UB with canards there was very little demand for R-77 or Kh-31 or Kh-35 or other weapons.

    Now that they are adopting MiG-29K2s and land based Su-30Ms then newer more sophisticated weapons are worth buying.

    How many MiG-29K will be stationed on Kuznetsov carrier? Will they also keep some Su-33 on carrier for bigger missiles like Club? MiG-29K is good multirole fighter, but for fleet defense some Su-33 could be still usefull.

    Actually without modification the Su-33 is comparable to an old model Su-27UB so the performance of the MiG-29K2 would be superior in all areas except max range and flight endurance.

    The Russian navy has zero old MiG-29Ks.

    The only prototypes are owned by MiG.

    The Russian Navy has already had MiG-29K2s delivered and Su-30Ms delivered so in all likelyhood have already likely placed orders for new weapons at least for testing.

    MIG likely trained a bit, but now they have their own and the training facilities in the Crimea they will be spoiled for choice. Smile


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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:12 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:

    What is the aircraft at 2:39?
    Seems an older aircraft to me?

    That is an old MiG-29K test bird. It was used for static tests on the carriers during recent trials. It is not owned by the RuNavy- and even if it was, it is a pre-serial test bird, useless for operational use.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:49 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Flyingdutchman wrote:

    What is the aircraft at 2:39?
    Seems an older aircraft to me?

    That is an old MiG-29K test bird. It was used for static tests on the carriers during recent trials. It is not owned by the RuNavy- and even if it was, it is a pre-serial test bird, useless for operational use.

    Thanks for clearing that up, i always asked myself what kind of mig-29 that was. Very Happy 

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Dima on Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:58 pm

    What is the current status of those delivered MiG-29Ks...have they had any deck landing and takeoffs...?

    How many more to be delivered by end-2015?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  medo on Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:25 pm

    Dima wrote:What is the current status of those delivered MiG-29Ks...have they had any deck landing and takeoffs...?

    How many more to be delivered by end-2015?

    MiG-29K/KUB deliveries are 4 in 2013, 10 in 2014 and 10 in 2015, so at the end of 2015, Ru Navy will have all 24 MiGs from contract. There are rumors, they will order more MiG-29K/KUB planes.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:41 pm

    medo wrote:
    Dima wrote:What is the current status of those delivered MiG-29Ks...have they had any deck landing and takeoffs...?

    How many more to be delivered by end-2015?

    MiG-29K/KUB deliveries are 4 in 2013, 10 in 2014 and 10 in 2015, so at the end of 2015, Ru Navy will have all 24 MiGs from contract. There are rumors, they will order more MiG-29K/KUB planes.

    If they order more i think it is sure that the K will carry atleast 24 migs on a deployment, as they are going to enlarge the hangar of the K aswell!!

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:48 pm

    [quote/]

    Cao Dongwei, senior colonel and researcher at the People's Liberation Army Naval Research Institute, said the aircraft carrier could gain the upper hand in any potential battle for air or sea supremacy. The lineup may differ for various missions, however. The full lineup of 36 aircraft shows that the "PLA Navy's era of aircraft" has arrived, the report said.


    Lineup of 36 aircraft on China's Liaoning carrier revealed

    Staff Reporter
    2014-08-28
    15:23 (GMT+Cool

    Liaoning, can carry four Z-18J airborne early warning (AEW) helicopters, six Z-18F anti-submarine helicopters, two Z-9C rescue helicopters, and 24 J-15 shipborne fighter jets, the Chinese-language Shanghai Morning Post reported on Aug. 28.

    Cao Dongwei, senior colonel and researcher at the People's Liberation Army Naval Research Institute, said the aircraft carrier could gain the upper hand in any potential battle for air or sea supremacy. The lineup may differ for various missions, however. The full lineup of 36 aircraft shows that the "PLA Navy's era of aircraft" has arrived, the report said.

    On the tail of the Z-18F helicopter is the image of a sea eagle sprawling its talons, which suggests that the aircraft's mission is to seek out and attack enemy submarines, according to the paper. Cao said it is common practice to mark aircraft with physically tough and fierce animals to "show the spirit of bravery of the pilot and the craft itself."

    The helicopter has a shipborne sea search radar that enables 360-degree detection and is equipped with dipping sonar and the report speculated that it can carry 32 sonobuoys.

    China is faced with a grave threat from the US, which owns the most advanced nuclear submarines, as well as Japan's Maritime Self-Defense Force, the report said. Countries operating in the South China Sea, particularly those engaged in territorial disputes with China, have also been strengthening their naval forces, putting pressure on China, said the report.

    The Z-9C helicopter's ZLC-1 radar can detect up to a range of 150 meters, while the Z-18F helicopter is equipped with four 7K anti-submarine torpedoes and four YJ-91 missiles.

    "In offshore combat, we are mainly faced with challenges to defensive military operations," said Cao. "We need to power up anti-submarine capability to prevent offshore detection from potential opponents and to prevent a mine blockade."

    [/quote]

    24 j-15s Shocked

    Russia couldn't fit 24 su-33s in the k.
    But if it is true they maybe enlarged the hangar bay?
    If they didn't, 24 migs would be no problem on the K!

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  medo on Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:39 pm

    As I know Kuznetsov carrier was designed to carry 40 to 50 planes and helicopters. I think there is no problem to carry 24 MiG-29K/KUB planes on Kuznetsov. If there will be a problem with space, they could take less helicopters. After all, Kuznetsov usually take 12 to 13 Su-33 and 2 Su-25UTG planes and 17 Ka-27 helicopters, what is 32 planes and helicopters and I think Russian navy didn't use all carrier capabilities and use half of Su-33 fleet for rotation for less carrier operation hours and to less expose to sea salt.

    China will have 24 J-15 fighters and 12 helicopters, this is 36 planes and helicopters together. I think Indian Vikramaditya have similar number of planes and helicopters.

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