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    MiG-29K: News and info

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    Pervius
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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Pervius on Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:19 pm

    Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov should get 10 Mig UCAV's. Autonomous flight path to keep eyes on area around carrier without anyone knowing you're watching.

    Benefit of putting Mig-29K on Admiral Kuznetsov, is India's purchases of parts for same plane......subsidizes your purchase of parts. You charge them double for part X, so when you need that part, it's already paid for.

    Isn't that what everyone else does?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  GarryB on Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:05 am

    Isn't that what everyone else does?

    No. Mig would not give the Russian Navy free spare parts paid for by someone else or not.

    There is a large untapped market for spare parts... lots of western companies make nice comfortable livings just producing spare parts for cars and other things.

    In fact most makers of printers for home computers tend to make more money on ink cartridges than on sales of printers. For certain brands it was actually cheaper to buy a new printer than buy a full set of ink cartridges... which led to some companies putting reduced size ink cartridges in their printers for sale.

    Pretty soon Russian companies will realise that legitimate parts are a valuable commodity and that even if you are not making planes the making of parts alone if the market is big enough can be quite profitable... as long as they don't price themselves out of their own market.

    One of the problems for Mig and probably many other Russian companies like it is that they are more than just a company. Often they will have child care programs and education programs for the children of workers and other social programs that western companies wouldn't even consider. In some places such companies carry out social work the government is no providing and that is expensive. As far as I was concerned as long as the money isn't all going to foreign parts that could be made in Russia then pay the extra money and just think of the money going into the Russian economy... which is a good thing.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:42 am

    They haven't rejected anything...it's just the usual crappy sensationalist headline you tend to see in the press. Just like they announced the failure of the Bulava launch a couple of days ago. The Mig-29K order is almost guaranteed. They're just haggling over the price

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  George1 on Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:28 am

    What about the MiG-29K for russian navy?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:02 am

    George1 wrote:What about the MiG-29K for russian navy?

    Mig was suppose to get an order from Russian NAvy for 24 Mig-29K by EOY.

    Its a done deal they are just negotiating for the cost , the Russian Navy Mig-29K will come with RD-33MKM engine with improved 9.5T of thrust compared to 9T on indian navy Mig-29 , I hope they also opt for Klimov 3D TVC.

    Mig-29MKM and Mig-29K will be one hell of a fighter with 3D TVC

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:25 pm

    Yes, as Austin said the issue was price, though because it is actually in production it will actually be cheaper than going for the Su-33 or Su-33KUB.

    Because it is already in production for the Indian Navy, it is much easier to tack on a few extra airframes.

    I have heard different things from different sources... some saying the Su-33s need to be replaced as they are pretty worn out and because the Mig-29K is in production and the Su-33 is not that it will be produced to replace the Su-33s.

    Other sources state the Su-33s are properly maintained and will operate together with the Mig-29s, with the Migs as fighter bombers and the Flankers operating as fighter escort.

    Part of the problem is that the Kuznetsov will be going into a major refit from about 2013 to about 2017-2020 or so, which means the Migs will be largely land based for a long time, so rather than spending money on Migs now that they could wait and in 2020 they could make some carrier based PAK FA aircraft to replace both the Su-33 and Migs.

    Personally I think buying the Migs would be a good investment as they are very capable aircraft and will be good experience for navy pilots on their carrier simulators.

    Investing in the Mig-29K will also allow improvements to the Mig-35 as they have many unified parts and components, and in the longer term in the 2020s, no matter how cheap the PAK FA is they wont buy more than 200-250 or so, which means a smaller lighter numbers 5th gen fighter could add to the performance of UAVs and UCAVs.

    The recent incident with the secret stealthy spy CIA UAV that was hacked and captured in Iran suggests the wests blind love of such systems might be fundamentally flawed... they might be very useful, but are vulnerable to being shot down or "stolen".

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:21 pm

    Any stealth aircraft without jammer support always runs the risk of getting shot down , thats the way even F-117 also got shot down ,one of the reason sited was lack of jammer support on that day.

    During Gulf War F-117 operated with great deal of jammer support and even B-2 during Kosovo bombing run flew with its own own armada of jammer support

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:27 pm

    Jammer support would not help UAVs very much, as to prevent the enemy hijacking their UAVs they would need to jam the control channels for the UAV.

    For most of its flight, except perhaps takeoff and landing, most UAVs fly on what equates basically to an autopilot, with automatic control. You don't fly the UAV manually... most of the time you just shift waypoints or command it to fly a certain pattern of flight. If something on the ground is detected that needs to be tracked then you would put the UAV in orbit mode where it would fly a fairly wide circle so as to remain in the area of the target... the UAV operators don't fly the UAV very much except sometimes for takeoffs and landings, and they might command the UAV to fly orbits around an area, or they might order it to fly in a circuit or particular search pattern for certain mission, but the UAV operator is normally operating the cameras and sensors rather than flying the aircraft.

    That is why they are so vulnerable... when you are looking at targets 5,000m below you with a powerful telescope you might not notice a helicopter flying along side or the tracer rounds zipping past you... the first thing you will likely notice is things start failing as they are hit... the main problem with UAVs is awareness of what is going on around the aircraft... including incoming missiles and other threats.

    The famous footage of the Mig-29 shooting down the Georgian UAV was largely because the Mig-29 came in and circled to identify the target before falling back and firing.

    Understandably enough if the target is unmanned then ordering it to land is pretty pointless, so shooting down is you only remaining option.

    Even small stealthy UAVs are easy to detect because they transmit live video feeds as part of their role. They probably use burst transmissions to reduce the chance of detection, but clearly the Iranians managed it, so we can assume that with the right equipment the Serbs could and the North Koreans could too. (As well as China and Russia).

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:59 am

    GarryB wrote:Yes, as Austin said the issue was price, though because it is actually in production it will actually be cheaper than going for the Su-33 or Su-33KUB.

    Because it is already in production for the Indian Navy, it is much easier to tack on a few extra airframes.

    I have heard different things from different sources... some saying the Su-33s need to be replaced as they are pretty worn out and because the Mig-29K is in production and the Su-33 is not that it will be produced to replace the Su-33s.

    Other sources state the Su-33s are properly maintained and will operate together with the Mig-29s, with the Migs as fighter bombers and the Flankers operating as fighter escort.

    Part of the problem is that the Kuznetsov will be going into a major refit from about 2013 to about 2017-2020 or so, which means the Migs will be largely land based for a long time, so rather than spending money on Migs now that they could wait and in 2020 they could make some carrier based PAK FA aircraft to replace both the Su-33 and Migs.

    Personally I think buying the Migs would be a good investment as they are very capable aircraft and will be good experience for navy pilots on their carrier simulators.

    Investing in the Mig-29K will also allow improvements to the Mig-35 as they have many unified parts and components, and in the longer term in the 2020s, no matter how cheap the PAK FA is they wont buy more than 200-250 or so, which means a smaller lighter numbers 5th gen fighter could add to the performance of UAVs and UCAVs.

    The recent incident with the secret stealthy spy CIA UAV that was hacked and captured in Iran suggests the wests blind love of such systems might be fundamentally flawed... they might be very useful, but are vulnerable to being shot down or "stolen".

    It is too early to speak about naval fighters for future aircraft carriers. Concerning Kuznetsov i think there is no need to carry 2 types of aircrafts since MiG-29K can conduct both air defense and strike missions.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  GarryB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:28 am

    No, there isn't a need to carry two types of aircraft on the K, but they have the Su-33s anyway so it wouldn't hurt to keep deploying them too.

    They could use the dual seat Mig-29Ks as jet trainers, which would eliminate the need for the Su-28s based on the K for training, which will free up space for more aircraft and retain two different fixed wing types on board.

    The upgrade is supposed to include catapaults, which should allow the use of heavier aircraft like AWACS aircraft to be carried too.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  George1 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:47 am

    Russia Signs Contract for Navy MiG-29K Fighter

    The Russian Defense Ministry has signed a contract with aircraft maker MiG for the delivery of 20 MiG-29K and four MiG-29KUB carrier-based fighter aircraft, MiG said on Wednesday.

    "Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and MiG General Director Sergei Korotkov have signed the contract for the delivery of MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB carrier-based fighters," MiG said in a statement.

    MiG wil deliver the aircraft from 2013-2015. The aircraft will operate from Russia's single serving carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, with the Northern Fleet based in Murmansk. The value of the deal has not been disclosed.

    "The signature of this contract for delivery of these fighters is a real step in fulfilling our program for rearming the forces. The Naval Air Forces will get a modern combat aircraft as good as any in the world," Serdyukov was quoted as saying by his press service.

    The contract will guarantee MiG a steady level of work in the medium term, Korotkov said.

    The MiG-29K is a navalized variant of the MiG-29 land-based fighter, and has folding wings, an arrester tail-hook, strengthened airframe and multirole capability. It can be armed with a wide variety of air-to-air and air-to-surface weaponry. So far, the aircraft has only been exported to India for use on a refitted Russian-built carrier which is to be delivered at the end of this year.

    The Admiral Kuznetsov currently operates Sukhoi Su-33 naval fighter aircraft.

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120229/171607361.html

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:22 am

    Mig-29K Excellent Video


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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Austin on Sun May 12, 2013 12:29 pm

    Not Russian but Mig-29K fighter commisioned into Indian Navy

    http://youtu.be/8hayeh3wFFw

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  TR1 on Sun May 12, 2013 9:59 pm

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/519049.html

    Some more photos of Indian MiG-29Ks.

    Looking good!

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  NickM on Thu May 16, 2013 8:42 pm

    What's the need for MIG 29K when it is on the verge of becoming obsolete .

    The future lies in UCAVs like the X 47B .
    http://defense-update.com/20130515_ucas_launched_from_carrier.html

    Give it a thought , does a manned aircraft like the MIG 29K which is rather obsolete take on a cutting edge UCAV like the X 47B ?

    Even if the MIG 29K is equipped with a Zhuk AESA radar it will not be able to locate the stealthy X 47B at Beyond Visual Range but the synthethic aperture radar of the X 47B will not have any problem in picking up a MIG 29K from stand off range .

    The X47B is also equipped with maritime moving target indicator (MMTI) sensors that is absent on the Mig 29K.

    It therefore makes more sense to invest in technologies like the X 47B rather than continue with legacy aircrafts like the Mig 29.



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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  TR1 on Thu May 16, 2013 11:26 pm

    X47 can't do half of what the MiG-29K can do today, and your comparison is asinine to say the least.

    Guess the Indian, Russian, Chinese, French, and US (they are still inducting the Super Hornet) navies all have it wrong eh?

    UAVs are important for the future, but they also have nothing with the need for a squadron of MiG-29Ks for the RuNavy, soon.

    Do you even know what the Maritime-indicator is? It is a radar mode, not a seperate sensor. Wopadedo, the Zhuk-AE is a much more potent sensor than anything the X47 will be able to carry in its limited space.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 17, 2013 1:11 am

    What happens when a Mig-29K and a UCAV meet in the air...



    The X47B is also equipped with maritime moving target indicator (MMTI) sensors that is absent on the Mig 29K.

    ...hmmm a maritime moving target indicator... a device that detects moving things at sea... ahahhahahahahahahaha... the Mig-29K has three of those... a radar, an IRST, and a helmet mounted sight...
    Rolling Eyes

    \It therefore makes more sense to invest in technologies like the X 47B rather than continue with legacy aircrafts like the Mig 29.

    No it doesn't. At the moment the Mig-29K can continue to operate with its datalinks jammed... the stealthy X47B is totally unproven and should be totally detectable from its datalink emissions.

    How many decades will UCAVs be totally useless because they are just as likely to shoot down friendlys and neutrals as enemy contacts? If Iran can take over the control of a UAV then what do you think Russia can do?

    For the forseeable future manned aircraft make rather more sense for aircraft carriers... there are plenty of roles for unmanned aircraft at sea... like AWACS and inflight refuelling, where they are simple long boring tasks for humans, but as a weapon... a killing tool you clearly under estimate the value of a human pilot trying to keep himself alive.


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    Mig-29K News and info.

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:37 pm

    With how many weapons can a Mig-29K take-off from the Kuznetsov? And what about the INS Vikramaditya?


    Thanks,


    Last edited by Flyingdutchman on Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  runaway on Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:37 pm

    That would be about 5500kg, of extra fuel and/or weapons. The K and Vikramaditya would make no difference. MiG29K has 8 under wings hardpoints and 1 centerline. Weapons will differ slightly as Indians will go for Brahmos ASM and Russians for Yakhont. AA will be the same, at least AA-11.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:57 am

    runaway wrote:That would be about 5500kg, of extra fuel and/or weapons. The K and Vikramaditya would make no difference. MiG29K has 8 under wings hardpoints and 1 centerline. Weapons will differ slightly as Indians will go for Brahmos ASM and Russians for Yakhont. AA will be the same, at least AA-11.
    Thanks,

    Another question can a mig-29k win of a J-15?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  runaway on Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:16 am

    Flyingdutchman wrote:
    Another question can a mig-29k win of a J-15?
    Yes, the Mig29 is smaller and more agile, its wepons and avionics are top modern so it should have the edge. Most important is pilot experience and skill however.
    In a duel, my money would be on the Mig29.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:15 am

    Are the mig-29k and j15 having helm mounted sights?

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  runaway on Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:48 am

    The MiG29K has helmet-mounted targeting system, J-15 is unknown, but since its a inferior chinese copy of SU-33 i doubt it.

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  Flyingdutchman on Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:47 pm

    So another BIG plus for the Mig-29K!

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    Re: MiG-29K: News and info

    Post  GarryB on Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:52 pm

    Downgraded export Mig-29A has helmet mounted sight as does all Fulcrums.

    J-15 is a copy of Su-33 so it should have HMS.

    The Mig-29K has the Topflight HMS developed by Thales AFAIK which is rather superior to either.

    Also the Mig-29K will likely be compatible with the new RVV-SD, RVV-MD, and RVV-BD AAMs which will be rather more capable than anything fitted to the J-15.


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