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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue May 21, 2024 7:05 am

    kvs wrote:No, no, it's climate change induced heart attacks.   Everyone knows that's the current thing.
    No, they have simply had enough of being French.

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    Vympel


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    Post  Vympel Tue May 21, 2024 11:30 am

    sepheronx wrote:I think that you guys need to settle down and just post info in this thread rather than useless attacks.  I mean, we already have the likes of Arrow, RTN, Walter and a few others to spread nonsense and to stir trouble, we don't need more.

    I've already added those two to the foes list so I don't need to see their vapid nonsense anymore. For those who are willing to do some actual analysis and use some critical thinking, they should be more sceptical about the conduct of people like simplicius and Bebo going forward. It's worth breaking down the 'derelict' rhetorical sleight of hand simplicius in particular tried to run in a bit more detail:

    1. Post photos of Belbek post capture in 2014:

    On any version of the facts of the strike, this simply has no relevance to anything. These pictured derelict Ukrainian aircraft were removed long ago. But for people primed to accept cope, the purpose it serves is to give the thin veneer of plausibility to the idea that the aircraft were somehow derelict - "oh hey look 10 years ago there wre derelict aircraft here so therefore these could be derelict!" Even though Ukraine never operated MiG-31s, so none of these 2014-era aircraft photos really have anything to do with anything.

    2. Assert that satellite photos which show the opposite of what you claim actually prove your argument:

    The whole reason we have satellite photos of MiG-31s at Belbek in 2023 was because people noted the satellite photos when they were moved there at the time. It's not controversial. But somehow the idea they became visible there - again during the war - is transmogrified into this being evidence that they're decoys. And why? Because they were destroyed near the locations they were pictured at back in October!

    This makes no sense at all of course. Of course aircraft based at an airbase for months are going to be destroyed near the location they've been seen parked before. What's strange about that??? It's pure unmitigated nonsense. And I'm sure simplicius knows that. But the purpose of this content is to give copers a veneer for their cope, something they can lazily point to and go "see!" and hope noone thinks too hard about it.

    For normal people, you just go "yeah it was a successful strike" and move on. But no, we have to have this whole edifice of bullshit misinformation that people have to wade through. It's exhausting.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue May 21, 2024 11:38 am

    Choked with baquette.

    The direction it entered the body would take a long time to choke someone...  Embarassed

    More likely the bled to death... Shocked

    India will “resonate the voice of the Global South” at a conference on the Ukraine conflict hosted by Switzerland next month, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has said during an interview with the PTI news agency.  

    Commenting on the planned Swiss gathering and a G7 meeting in Italy also scheduled for mid-June, Modi said India “will be participating in all important summits that promote the agenda of global peace, security and development.”

    The goal of the Swiss is to get a large "global south" country to come along and listen to that shit and then pressure Russia to agree to what ever they decide with no input from Russia at all.

    By cooperating, India is trying to sit on two seats, which always leads to ending up on your arse on the ground because the west tends to pull its seat away when it realises you are not going to give up the other seat that suits you better.


    BTW Lots of useless posts and related posts are going to be moved to the talking bollocks thread.

    To be clear, nothing has been deleted and you can continue your discussion there, though I would warn you that personal attacks are meaningless and will just lead to responses in kind. When I get complaints about personal abuse and I check and find both parties abused each other... I honestly don't care who did it first.


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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue May 21, 2024 12:44 pm

    Yeah, I am unsure what India is doing other than trying to pretend to be someone important in all of this.  To which they are not.  The amount India economically provides to Russia is so slim that I am certain Iran will end up replacing India.

    That said, India is free to do what it pleases.  They will go, listen and give their input and then India will be made fun of by nearly every side afterwards.  That is up to them.  Even Brazil is only sending some junior over to it.

    The problem is with India, it tries to act important to which it isn't. I am sorry to Indians who wish they were, but no one respects the country. The west makes fun of it rather regularly (always reminding them they don't have toilets when they send something to space, or their rather abysmal number of people living below poverty line), or its backwards industry for most part that relies on imports of high tech to end up being mostly just mass amounts of cheap labor doing the job.

    The west doesn't respect India, but it will always strive to try and get the respect. It will fail. Russia showed respect to India but India always tries hard to seek it from the west. Indians like to mention how Russia worked with Pakistan but Russia only gave a few basic things to Pakistan while the west they aspire to gain support from, provided everything to Pakistan to hurt India. Indians sometimes mention it, but rarely do they. Instead they concentrate on rather random small deals Russia does. Its like Armenia really.

    All India will get out of this is heartache and peoples disdain. On both sides.
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Tue May 21, 2024 1:17 pm

    India is 15 times the size of Iran.
    It can't be replaced by it.
    In none of the terms.
    India's main goal now is being a middle man for a big chunk of Russkie oil sell.
    Nobody even tries to pretend it is not happening now.
    This position can't be taken by Iran, for clear and obvious reasons.

    Vympel wrote:
    For normal people, you just go "yeah it was a successful strike" and move on. But no, we have to have this whole edifice of bullshit misinformation that people have to wade through. It's exhausting.

    Because it is a perfect reflection.
    Keep in mind, that we still have here some folks, who are at the denial stage that cluster munition was being used in this conflict for a DECADE, by BOTH sides.
    On the other hand, all this shit is deeply irrelevant to the conflict, and the only thing it does is echo the ukro propaganda.
    They can't do anything else.
    Five days ago they tried to stage a massive attack on the fleet, that ended up in a disaster - most of the Magura drones were lost. Budanov fired half of the commanding staff because the thing had already been soaked into a propaganda campaign that failed miserably.
    Every single whining about losses is a part of the job of 72nd Psy-Ops Center, and is being actively used from the very beginning.
    Constructed matrix falls apart, that is why we will witness more and more purely terrorist attacks. It is the only thing they still can do, supported by faithful allies of the world's terrorism, the Anglosaxons, leading the euro sheeps.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Tue May 21, 2024 1:35 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    The west doesn't respect India

    The west have no respect for anyone.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Tue May 21, 2024 1:39 pm

    How can they respect anyone, if are disrespectful to each other?
    This is a clear vasal structure.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue May 21, 2024 2:14 pm

    When I talk of Iran vs India for Russia, I'm talking trade with Russia, not Indias trade with the world. If you look, russias overall trade with India is rather small.

    Indias attempt of being middle man doesn't work anymore. That is from a bygone era.
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    Post  ALAMO Tue May 21, 2024 2:24 pm

    sepheronx wrote:When I talk of Iran vs India for Russia, I'm talking trade with Russia, not Indias trade with the world. If you look, russias overall trade with India is rather small.

    Indias attempt of being middle man doesn't work anymore.  That is from a bygone era.

    Bro ...
    Latest data clearly indicates that India exported more than $18bln worth of oil to Europe, while importing 38+ bln of it from Russia.
    Indian oil export almost tripled in 2022 - how a coincidence Laughing
    And gained a 40% in 2023 - how a coincidence! Laughing Laughing
    Wann'a wait for 2024 data before making clues? Wink

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue May 21, 2024 4:37 pm

    Yes, the hilarious thing is that the EU has just changed how Russian energy arrives... it used to go direct and be rather cheap compared with world prices... now they get it via third parties who make money off the Europeans.... India and China doing to Europe what Europe has been doing to Russia and many other countries for centuries when ever they could...

    Zelensky thinks this thing in Switzerland will be a one sided show of him outlining his wish list to the already brainwashed (west) and also to the rest of the world in the hopes that they will then end the conference by going to Russia and spelling out Zelenskys wish list verbatum.

    The problem is that dictating terms to an enemy normally requires that enemy to be beaten on the battlefield and have no alternative.

    The concept of BRICS is non interference... China and India can say they want the conflict solved peacefully and with diplomacy all they want... they are not going to inflict sanctions or exert pressure to force Russia to do anything at all... and it works both ways... Russia will offer advice to China or India but it wont issue them as international commands like the west does, and they also won impose any force to compel them to conform.

    China and India have enormous and rich histories, and are to be respected, but at the same time everyone wants to give friends advice that might help them out with their problems if they are not dealing with them very well.

    China and India understand the conflict in Ukraine is not about Ukraine and it really is an open conflict with the west and her HATO proxy... so they will talk about peace but they wont have a tantrum if Putin refuses to surrender and withdraw as Zelensky will demand.

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    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Tue May 21, 2024 5:40 pm

    Russian MoD has apparently announced they have finally liberated the town of Belogorovka in Lugansk.   russia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 2 20may210

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue May 21, 2024 6:32 pm

    Regarding India's stance, it is in a weaker position to NATzO's sanctions than China. So it will try to show more neutrality. But the problem is that
    NATzO is a hyena pack and either you are with them or you are against them. So India will be reamed regardless.

    But we'll have to wait and see if NATzO can effectively sanction the global south.

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Tue May 21, 2024 7:11 pm


    The Russians are expanding the front in the Kharkiv Oblast Very Happy

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue May 21, 2024 9:05 pm

    🇷🇺⚡ Former commander of the 58th Army of the Southern Military District Ivan Popov. The major general is suspected of selling metal that was used for defensive structures in the Zaporozhye region.

    According to media reports, a case of large-scale fraud has been opened against Popov: the major general, together with a certain businessman from Kuban and another officer of the Southern Military District, organized a scheme for the sale of metal products purchased for the construction of fortifications in the Zaporozhye region. Popov is suspected of selling more than two thousand tons of metal outside the region. The total amount of damage is estimated at more than 100 million rubles. The 235th Military Garrison Court sent Popov to a pre-trial detention center.



    Another one bites the dust

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Tue May 21, 2024 9:11 pm

    Long as there is a buck to be made, there will be corruption.

    Wonder what took them so long to catch him tho

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    Post  ucmvulcan Tue May 21, 2024 9:30 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Long as there is a buck to be made, there will be corruption.

    Wonder what took them so long to catch him tho

    Corruption always involves more than one person. The first rule of corruption is to protect the racket. My guess is that he has long been suspected but finding the evidence took time

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    Post  Broski Tue May 21, 2024 9:46 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Long as there is a buck to be made, there will be corruption.

    Wonder what took them so long to catch him tho
    Maybe you live in the west and aren't aware of how real investigations work but compiling evidence of corruption always takes time since there's usually multiple people involved. After all, what evidence did the US ever present to the UN about Bin Laden or the Taliban being the 9/11 masterminds other than naming him as the main suspect over and over again in the news until soft, pliable American brains accepted it as gospel?

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue May 21, 2024 9:58 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:Long as there is a buck to be made, there will be corruption.

    Wonder what took them so long to catch him tho

    Pipe down lil bro

    You guys sell bolts for 90k

    Don’t act like your shit doesn’t stink or smell worse than anything happening in Russia

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    Post  Hole Tue May 21, 2024 10:22 pm

    Another one bites the dust
    If Banderaland would do this, there would be no officer left.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #57 - Page 2 Empty Corruption In America

    Post  calripson Tue May 21, 2024 10:30 pm

    Corruption in America is institutionalized. Done the right way, it is all legal and out in the open. Former presidents get handed $15MM book deals that a ghost writer writes after a few hour meetings, not to mention one hour luncheon talks at $250k a pop sponsored by Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley. Former government officials with JDs leave "public service" for lunch and golf partnerships at major law firms at $2MM a year plus perks. Don't even go down the defense and intelligence rabbit whole which is by design non-transparent (national security you know). Done right, sweetheart deals with private equity firms pay off in the tens of millions.

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    Post  Tolstoy Tue May 21, 2024 10:54 pm

    GarryB wrote:China and India understand the conflict in Ukraine is not about Ukraine and it really is an open conflict with the west and her HATO proxy.
    India is a major liability for Russia. It will single handedly destroy Russia's relation with China.

    The Valdai Club and Sergey Karaganov's Council on Foreign and Defense Policy think tank are important organizations. Valdai club has now bracketed India with Pakistan as a "rising power" ( Page 25 link below) but China is a superpower according to them. No need for Russia to engage with India.

    https://valdaiclub.com/files/43956/
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    Post  Firebird Tue May 21, 2024 11:01 pm

    Tolstoy wrote:
    GarryB wrote:China and India understand the conflict in Ukraine is not about Ukraine and it really is an open conflict with the west and her HATO proxy.
    India is a major liability for Russia. It will single handedly destroy Russia's relation with China.

    The Valdai Club and Sergey Karaganov's Council on Foreign and Defense Policy think tank are important organizations. Valdai club has now bracketed India with Pakistan as a "rising power" ( Page 25 link below)

    https://valdaiclub.com/files/43956/

    India has, on occasion sucked up to America/Europe at the expense of Russia.
    India can't expect Russia to be it's bitch.

    The fact is, Russia has kept India free and independent in the World. No one else has the strength and inclination to do that. Nobody.

    India now needs to show it's full support for Russia.

    Russia trades and works with China but it is not China's bitch.

    India has everything it can reasonably expect from Russia.
    And Russia is dealing with the 2 in the right way.

    Where Russia is lacking is perhaps defining itself as a technology/finished goods leader for the rest of the World.
    An alternative to Europe, America, Japan/S Korea and China. For instance UAC should be signing up junior partners for assembly of next gen airlines etc. But these things take time. And Russia has had to route out many 5th Columnists.

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue May 21, 2024 11:52 pm

    $17B trade between India and Russia, especially when its really only oil, is not much. I am talking of end goods that Indians buy.

    Instead, India will buy mostly from the west. Rafale (expensive, way beyond its actual usefulness), Helicopters, and so on. On average goods stuff, a lot of it comes from China, their so called enemy next to Pakistan.

    I have investments in India. I have personal experience and work in India. I have assets there. I work closely within their society. I can say that the peoples hearts are in the right place and so are their minds. But their entire elite around Modi (not necessarily his allies) are all western centric people. Their kids are in the west, their investments are in the west and they themselves may have everything in the west and is only in India for its political position. Heck, the NRI's (Non Resident Indians) in the west play a huge roll in every day affairs of India and money sent back is as much if not more than the entire oil trade with Russia and EU.

    India unfortunately cant do much and wont do much and will continue to be Europe's and US' asset. They are rich on paper and it is mostly because of the massive population. But majority of them are rather poor. The ones you hear that own everything and are mega rich, those are lots of them there but in overall population, they are less than 1% but with such massive number of population, thats still a lot of them. And those ones rule all, and most of them have assets in UK, US, Canada and Australia.

    Anyway, I will just state that Russia needs to keep India at arm length. Don't get too comfortable around them. Simply sell what you can and seek other investments from them but do not, politically, do not get too close to them. This kinda goes for China too.

    When I say Iran can be a bigger trade partner, I wasn't lying. Iran's economy and industry is ripe for development and investments and most steer clear because of sanctions. But since Russia is also sanctioned equally, Russian industries can work hand in hand with Iranian. They can easily sell military gear and even civilian gear to Iran and vice versa. The work between the two can be significantly more than 17B investment. India's economy is rather closed to Russia.

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    Post  Mir Tue May 21, 2024 11:56 pm

    But majority of them are rather poor.

    That is a bit of an understatement Wink Laughing

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    Post  Tolstoy Wed May 22, 2024 12:18 am

    Firebird wrote:India now needs to show it's full support for Russia
    What support will a third world, impoverished shit hole state provide to Russia? ???

    Even those hindu soldiers fighting against Ukros are a useless lot. Many surrendered, many got killed. Better they get killed than surrender, else they'll divulge all Russian strategies to NATO.

    The only balanced thing left is the ratio of stupidity to bravery in those 3rd world countries. Not of any use to Russia.

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