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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9

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    Post  thegopnik Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:36 am

    Since Shvabe is working on the Su-75 and Su-57 photoelectronics, both aircrafts are in good hands.

    https://rostec.ru/news/nauchnyy-tsentr-kholdinga-shvabe-razvivaet-partnerstvo-s-mfti/

    The State Scientific Center of the Russian Federation NPO Orion (SSC RF NPO Orion) of Shvabe Holding and the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology (MIPT) have agreed to develop and implement joint programs and projects in the field of photoelectronics and photosensorics. The corresponding agreement was reached today on the sidelines of the International Specialized Exhibition "Photonics. The World of Lasers and Optics".

    According to the agreement, the parties will conduct fundamental and exploratory scientific research aimed at developing new technologies and materials for photoelectronics and photosensorics.

    At present, the State Scientific Center of the Russian Federation NPO Orion is the only domestic organization in the field of solid-state photoelectronics. It specializes in the development and production of microphotoelectronic products for equipping optoelectronic systems and complexes in the interests of science, industry, space and other industries.


    https://rostec.ru/news/shvabe-pokazyvaet-proryvnye-tekhnologii-na-vystavke-fotonika-mir-lazerov-i-optiki/
    The exposition also includes products implemented as part of the development of radio photonics, a new technological direction for the Russian industry. For example, a high-power single-frequency continuous wave semiconductor laser with distributed feedback. The use of such lasers makes it possible to create devices with high speeds of information transmission and processing.

    https://rostec.ru/news/prezident-rossii-nagradil-predstavitelya-lazernogo-tsentra-kholdinga-shvabe-/

    At the Polyus Research Institute, the main task of Gadzhimet Kerimovich is to coordinate the scientific work of the institute in a number of areas. With his direct involvement, the Polyus Research Institute received the status of the basic organization for the development of radiophotonic technologies in the country.

    In addition, Gadzhimet Kerimovich contributed to the creation of the consortium "Radio Photonic Technologies of Digital and Analog Systems of the New Generation". In addition to the Polyus Research Institute, it includes technical universities, academic institutes and industrial enterprises of Russia: the National Research Nuclear University MEPhI, the Lebedev Physical Institute, the Prokhorov Institute of General Physics, the Rzhanov Institute of Semiconductor Physics, the St. Petersburg Electrotechnical University "LETI" named after V.I. Ulyanov (Lenin), the Ryazan State Radio Engineering University named after V.F. Utkin, as well as NPO Almaz and the Scientific and Technical Center Module.

    The task of the consortium members is to create advanced devices for transmitting and processing large amounts of data. Currently, scientists are focused on the development of components, modules and samples of innovative radiophotonic technology. The created devices will differ from existing analogues in terms of speed, accuracy, high level of interference immunity and a number of other advantages. For example, the telecommunications industry will be able to switch to the transmission of ultra-large amounts of information at ultra-high speeds that exceed current values.


    https://rostec.ru/news/sotrudnik-shvabe-razrabotal-lazernye-izluchateli-novogo-pokoleniya-/

    An employee of the Polyus Research Institute named after M.F. Stelmakh of the Shvabe holding of Rostec State Corporation has developed a new technology for producing semiconductor nanostructures, and also created high-power laser emitters of a new generation based on them. The results of the scientific work can be applied in the production of medical equipment, unmanned vehicles, lidar systems and other devices. The invention was awarded the highest award at the competition of young scientists organized by the Moscow government.

    This shit is getting confusing, we had KRET, RTI and Vega and the advance research website claim photonic radars. I am assuming Shvabe made some great breakthrough on how highly awarded they are i this.

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    Post  lancelot Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:19 am

    thegopnik wrote:They showed the Su-57 export with the original byelka radar with 200km for 1m2 targets.
    But they have also revealed information that they have made 300km air to air missiles specifically for the Su-57.

    The compatibility of both of these ranges cannot be met unless there is a newer powerful radar. Even if they got GaN modules you would still not get a 1m2 at 300km range and a Niip 2018 or 2019 source said they did not have the necessary production line to give GaN modules to Su-57s. The aircraft was specifically designed to have as much situational awareness as possible and designed to deal with other stealth aircraft according to its makers. If they gave the F-22 a 0.4m2 ballpark before, using the narrow beam technique to get that at 300kms might not work and leave huge blind spots if there were multiple aerial targets coming.
    Not all targets will be 1m2. If the target is bombers, AWACS aircraft, etc then the radar will detect them at longer distances. Even an F-15 would have like 25m2 signature. The maximum range of air to air missiles is also typically only achievable in optimum conditions against targets which aren't maneuvering that much. If the targets are moving then the missile will lose speed giving chase.

    As for the GaN radar. The Russians seem to have recently started a small GaN foundry. I expect GaN radar to be available sooner or later.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Mar 31, 2024 9:52 am

    he maximum range of air to air missiles is also typically only achievable in optimum conditions against targets which aren't maneuvering that much. If the targets are moving then the missile will lose speed giving chase. wrote:

    In Ukraine, the R-37M reportedly intercepted a high-maneuvering Su-27 target from a distance of about 300 km!

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    Post  Hole Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:07 pm

    Su-57 air launched recon and attack Drone.
    Looks similar to the Kh-69 cruise missile.

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    Post  Atmosphere Sun Mar 31, 2024 7:06 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Su-57 air launched recon and attack Drone.
    Looks similar to the Kh-69 cruise missile.

    Yeah what makes it a drone is the internals
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    Post  GarryB Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:03 am


    Serbian forums are one giant collection of Karls Haushofers

    Half of them are Russian fanboys other half are Western fanboys and all of them are talking out of their asses

    Am impressed that you took the time and had the patience to visit every single one of them to work out they are all crap, because you talk to two people from a country and you know what every single man woman and child from that country is like and can read them like a book.

    That is how things never work.

    Regarding long range missile shots... when you launch a missile at a target heading towards you at high speed the interception point is going to be much closer than where the target aircraft is when your missile was launched so your missile is going to climb to a height and fly towards the closing target and then drop down and attack the target as it gets to its calculated intercept point. If the target then climbs and turns and changes speed then that intercept point can dramatically change meaning your missile in flight need to be sent the coordinates of the new interception point once it can be calculated... for instance if the target turns 90 degrees left and climbs then you missile will also have to turn and get to the point the target plane will fly to by the time your missile gets there... but a few seconds later if the target aircraft does a 180 degree turn then the interception point might shift 20km back in the other direction... but the problem is that your missile can of course turn but can it reach that interception point in time.

    If the target starts turning at 9g then your intercept problem is actually simpler because constantly turning at 9g means you essentially stay in the same area and just turn in circles so the incoming missile does not have to keep turning... when it is 15km away from you it will turn on its radar and find you and then it will guide toward you based on its own radar lock and evading the missile will be much harder... the ideal would be to not be there when it turns on its radar to look for you, or be just out of flight range when it detects you so it can't reach you.

    The R-33 was designed to shoot down bombers and large heavy aircraft like refuelling aircraft and AWACS and JSTARS types, and also straight flying cruise missiles.

    R-37M is intended to shoot down anything.
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    Post  Atmosphere Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:24 am

    lancelot wrote:
    thegopnik wrote:They showed the Su-57 export with the original byelka radar with 200km for 1m2 targets.
    But they have also revealed information that they have made 300km air to air missiles specifically for the Su-57.

    The compatibility of both of these ranges cannot be met unless there is a newer powerful radar. Even if they got GaN modules you would still not get a 1m2 at 300km range and a Niip 2018 or 2019 source said they did not have the necessary production line to give GaN modules to Su-57s. The aircraft was specifically designed to have as much situational awareness as possible and designed to deal with other stealth aircraft according to its makers. If they gave the F-22 a 0.4m2 ballpark before, using the narrow beam technique to get that at 300kms might not work and leave huge blind spots if there were multiple aerial targets coming.
    Not all targets will be 1m2. If the target is bombers, AWACS aircraft, etc then the radar will detect them at longer distances. Even an F-15 would have like 25m2 signature. The maximum range of air to air missiles is also typically only achievable in optimum conditions against targets which aren't maneuvering that much. If the targets are moving then the missile will lose speed giving chase.

    As for the GaN radar. The Russians seem to have recently started a small GaN foundry. I expect GaN radar to be available sooner or later.

    To clear something about the 200 km range, keep in mind that russians *heavily* dumb down the specs of their products even if we are talking about the already watered down export variants.

    One of the early Zhuk versions was marketed with a 120 km range but it was afterwards revealed that the actual range is 250 km and that the earlier figure vwas just some target figure they had in mind as a benchmark

    Byelka is already said to monitor airspace at vhundereds of kilometers.

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    Post  Atmosphere Mon Apr 08, 2024 2:38 am

    russian DAS analogue, on the su-57 there is a similar system but in UV.
    https://geocartography.ru/sites/default/files/sgugit/article_pdf/2016.1.148-161.pdf
    https://trudymai.ru/upload/iblock/03f/Kudinov_KHlopov_KHramv_rus_red_11_03_2019.pdf?lang=ru&issue=104


    Last edited by Atmosphere on Mon Apr 08, 2024 2:46 am; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  Atmosphere Mon Apr 08, 2024 2:38 am

    Study: 3 circuit engines, could be related to Su-57
    https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/analiz-vozmozhnostey-povysheniya-kreyserskoy-toplivnoy-ekonomichnosti-mnogorezhimnogo-dvigatelya-s-tretim-konturom/viewer

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:09 am

    Thanks knowing my curiosity I will indulge myself in the painful process of copy and pasting each page on google translate to find any intriguing details.

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Apr 08, 2024 6:25 am

    the 1st 2 PDFs told me absolutely nothing. Like we already know the MAWS on the SU-57 covers UV 360 degrees, infrared in 360 degrees but we don't know if it is either in the MWIR or SWIR ranges or both, with a 180 degree LWIR range using OLS-50. The 2025 Su-57 batch is to get new avionics along with the new engines which they didn't even give any details about while updates on the F-35 with courtesy from the U.S. at least let us know the aircraft covers 360 degrees in SWIR and MWIR from its new infrared systems along with GaN AESA module replacements. Checking for new updates on the Su-57 got as boring as watching the slow progression of the Ukraine war.
    https://technomoscow.ru/event/tekhnoklub-proizvodstvo-fotonnykh-integralnykh-skhem-fis/?ysclid=luqekto1gc589225707

    A regular meeting of representatives of the Moscow Photonics Cluster within the framework of the TechnoClub was held at the site of the Technopolis Moscow SEZ.

    The leading enterprises of the cluster discussed the problem of import substitution.

    Zelenograd Nanotechnology Center (ZNTC), a resident of the Technopolis Moscow SEZ, presented the glass-on-silicon technology, which is already used by a number of enterprises, and the silicon-on-insulator technology, which is planned to be launched in 2024. Both of these technologies will enable the creation of transceivers capable of receiving/transmitting data at speeds of more than 1000 Gbps.

    Production technology is developing rapidly. According to experts, in 2026, 75-80% of transceivers will use photonic integrated circuits. In Russia, by this time, the market for these devices may reach 4-5 billion rubles, and by 2030 it may grow to 10 billion rubles.

    Among them are coherent and incoherent transceivers for repetition frequencies from 100 Gbit/s to 800 Gbit/s using FIS for optical communication systems or a transmitter (Alice) for quantum key distribution on a chip.

    Follow the announcements of upcoming events and participate in TechnoClub meetings.


    RTI and their articles talking about photonic radars got nuked, advanced research website that showed the photonic radar antennas with the news got nuked, Vega radar website talking about their photonic radar got nuked, KRET's news articles about photonic radars got nuked. I am assuming the purge of photonic radar information is that it is confidential enough to be considered as their game changing technology getting introduced in the battlefield. Any confirmation that the Su-57 will use photonic radars would be a bigger celebration for me than the Ukraine war being won despite its obvious results

    Wish they gave estimates of their own 3rd circuit engine other than the F-35s Advent of how much their 3rd circuit engine would increase in range and thrust or how much better it would be than their 2nd stage engine? I guess old information is better than nothing for others if they forgot or there are new people browsing this thread that didn't know about it.

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    Post  Atmosphere Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:48 am

    The articles are not directly Su-57 systems but are about the scientific research done in the direction of all round visibility systems on aircraft.

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    Post  Atmosphere Mon Apr 08, 2024 8:30 am

    TsAGI assessment of the radar signature of F-22 and F-35.
    Note how they do infact rate the F-22 at under 40 db from the front (0-5 degrees) thus being spot on with the official value given by Lockheed Martin
    This gives a good idea that if they are spot on with the F-22s signature and have similar requirments for the Su-57 then it'd be at least as stealthy.Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 12002610

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Apr 08, 2024 5:34 pm

    Atmosphere wrote:TsAGI assessment of the radar signature of F-22 and F-35.
    Note how they do infact rate the F-22 at under 40 db from the front (0-5 degrees) thus being spot on with the official value given by Lockheed Martin
    This gives a good idea that if they are spot on with the F-22s signature and have similar requirments for the Su-57 then it'd be at least as stealthy.Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 12002610

    Do you have the pdf link? The reason this is significant is that they gave the frontal value of the F-22 in 2003 before the aviation article announced the frontal value being the same in 2005. Are the F-22 or F-35 good at dog fighting the Su-57?
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    Post  Atmosphere Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:07 pm

    thegopnik wrote:
    Atmosphere wrote:TsAGI assessment of the radar signature of F-22 and F-35.
    Note how they do infact rate the F-22 at under 40 db from the front (0-5 degrees) thus being spot on with the official value given by Lockheed Martin
    This gives a good idea that if they are spot on with the F-22s signature and have similar requirments for the Su-57 then it'd be at least as stealthy.Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 12002610

    Do you have the pdf link?  The reason this is significant is that they gave the frontal value of the F-22 in 2003 before the aviation article announced the frontal value being the same in 2005. Are the F-22 or F-35 good at dog fighting the Su-57?

    I forgot the link to the article, only took a screenshot some time ago.
    Although there is no more RCS value related stuff than this, the rest of the article is about surface discontinuities and their effect on signature.

    I think the F-22 and F-35 would be at a disadvantage fighting the Su-57. I mean AWACS and other force multipliers can be sniped from very far away by the latter, that's a huge advantage, then there's the fact that it has dedicated anti stealth radars as confirmed by head of GRPZ (He did say that they are effective vs stealth and they are not retarded to not know about limitations like aperture size and not have a solution to that). The kinematic difference is also there, then theres the fact that due to circular radar coverage there is circular datalink coverage for missiles thus the ability to bank away as soon as a missile is launched to guarantee safety vs retaliatory shots as opposed to the F-22 or 35 having to limit their movement most of missile's flight time until the seeker is on. Close combat is no different, DIRCM + overwhelming agility advantage is too big for me to ignore.
    Those are only a few points, it still stretches on to many other.

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    Post  Atmosphere Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:36 pm

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2552047.html?cut_expand=1&page=2

    "In the integrated structure of the avionics of the T-50 aircraft, the central computer is assigned the functions of controlling the aircraft systems, using weapons, defense and multi-mode intelligent support for the pilot. The central computer, which simultaneously plays the role of an electronic pilot, an electronic navigator and an electronic flight engineer, in real time solves problems of automatically recognizing and identifying the most dangerous targets, building the most optimal route, optimally solving problems of using weapons and aircraft defense, as well as reconfiguring systems in case of failures. The new control system takes over control of almost all the key instruments of the aircraft - the locator, navigation and communication systems; in the previous version of the aircraft, its own computer was used to calculate the functions of each system."

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    Post  Atmosphere Thu Apr 11, 2024 10:48 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 Efoadp10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 Efoacn10
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 Efoacy10

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    Post  thegopnik Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:02 am

    -Kret had their own website with news articles talking about photonic radars, gets nuked from web.
    -Vega had their own website with news articles talking about photonic radars, gets nuked from web.
    -aorti.ru website of RTI had their own website with news articles talking about photonic radars, gets nuked from web.
    -Advanced research foundation had display of the photonic radar antennas with news info about them, cant open webpage
    https://fpi.gov.ru/press/news/razrabotannaya-v-ramkakh-proekta-fpi-antenna-voshla-v-top-10-izobreteniy-2020-goda/
    -https://youtu.be/a2lOyCbTUl4 31:50
    -have a planned production date for PICs in 2024 from 2023 article.
    -posted article here earlier that there was a 2023 event that predicted the growth of PICs and basically introducing 6G wireless networks before the west can even implement that.

    https://tass.com/defense/1323823

    "In the upgraded version of the fighter as part of the Megapolis research and development project, a completely upgraded cockpit with the most advanced avionics will be installed. In addition, the aircraft will be equipped with a second stage power unit. It is planned that mass production of the upgraded Su-57 will start from 2025," the source said.

    Most of your information was probably like from 15 years ago, and Shvabe has made many breakthroughs in Infared technology and too much of a high chance that the Su-57 by the end of 2025 will have photonic radars. We are probably going to have an aircraft that will use 360 degree UV, mid,short, long infared detection with radar coverage from low up to 100ghz high frequency coverage all integrated detection and tracking data into a computer. High chance that the new missile that would be 300kms is the R-77 design that they quoted as increasing the existing 120km range and the only new air to air missile we saw that they didnt announce was a ramjet design they testfired in october 2020.......I got high hopes for the new engines, new avionics and new missiles but what is bothering me is if they got the aircraft to an 8 or 10 air to air internal missile loadout because it pisses me off that those large central bays can't carry more than what the F-22 has according to wikipedia.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Apr 12, 2024 3:06 am

    The west has proven to be their enemy... why would they share information with the enemy?

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    Post  thegopnik Fri Apr 12, 2024 5:14 am

    GarryB wrote:The west has proven to be their enemy... why would they share information with the enemy?

    I know, I feel like the reason they decided to purge the idea of photonic radars from those websites is for the west to stay ignorant, mass produce F-35s than realize later that such aircraft won't work on 100ghz radar waves. waste that money for nothing with their allies and than move on to other aircraft projects if they got the budget for it.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/02/26/joint-statement-endorsing-principles-for-6g-secure-open-and-resilient-by-design/

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 17125510
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 17125511
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 Screen92


    These 3 pictures in order tell a story that the West has not created an operable photonic radar or got the breakthrough they needed to create a 6g network for wireless 1 terabits of data. If the estimate is a 75-80% replacement with transceivers having PICs than that means those PICs won't suffer long range signal losses if they are replacing their MMICs. photonic radars are just like transceivers that transmit waves and those bounce off targets and receive those waves for target data. If beginning of 2025 is when these new Su-57 production models come out with new avionics (radar, infrared, EW systems, etc) with the 2nd stage engines. The estimates will be high for a photonic radar just what we received of the news of 2024 PIC production date and what the outcast would be in what transceivers will have in 2026 and this batch with new avionics probably comes out at the end of 2025 like all other Su-57 production models for each year.

    They will probably not announce shit in a 2025 Maks airshow but it looks like the results are obvious, but we are in the dark on any estimate of the S-57s internal payload.

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    Post  sepheronx Fri Apr 12, 2024 7:11 am

    We wont hear much though.  Russia has been advancing in Photonics and evidence has been seen of some interesting radar system with Photonic skin as said.

    Photonics seems to be where Russia is going to advance in, in semiconductors.  But we shall see results.

    Photos that Atmosphere posted translated:

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 1
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 2
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 3

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    Post  Hole Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:01 am

    These 3 pictures in order tell a story that the West has not created an operable photonic radar 
    The west relied on China for 5G tech.
    They will need years to come up with 6G.

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    Post  Atmosphere Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:11 pm

    Su-57 sensor fusion https://findpatent.ru/patent/248/2488775.html
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 11444710
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 11444710

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    Post  higurashihougi Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:13 am

    Su-57 and Kh-69

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 Su-5710
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 Su-57-10

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    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #9

    Post  Atmosphere Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:55 pm

    https://indicator.ru/chemistry-and-materials/razrabotka-povysit-moshnost-rls-i-5g-16-09-2019.htm
    "Russian researchers have managed to improve the characteristics of a transistor based on gallium nitride. These devices are used as a core element of ultra-high frequency radar devices and 5G networks. Scientists reported on the invention at the XIV Russian Conference on Semiconductor Physics."

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