Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Backman
    Backman

    Posts : 265
    Points : 269
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  Backman on Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:40 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Zm1rvsj7r6i_by_backspin321_deb9mtw-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3siaGVpZ2h0IjoiPD04NTQiLCJwYXRoIjoiXC9mXC82NzMyZjYzZi1kNTRmLTQ3ODktYjRlYS1kZTRlMjEzMzJkOTZcL2RlYjltdHctOTJmMmFkOWItODkyNS00NGMzLTk0ODEtODkyOGY0NzVlYzNhLmpwZyIsIndpZHRoIjoiPD0xMjgwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0


    Last edited by Backman on Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

    ahmedfire, magnumcromagnon, LMFS, Hole, Daniel_Admassu and TMA1 like this post

    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8

    Posts : 1991
    Points : 1984
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  AlfaT8 on Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:38 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:I've been looking forever for this, but thanks to Cyberspec it's been found again finally! Ever wonder why the Su-57 didn't get flat nozzles? Well the USSR developed them and used them on a testbed Su-27, and found that it reduced thrust by a ridiculous 15%, and they actually developed a better solution to reduce thermal signature for the engine nozzles...
    Heat / IR sig reduction system for Su-57. According to the chart, it reduces the IR sig from the engine exhaust by 3 - 3.5 times. Details are classified but it's assumed an aerosol substance is injected into the exhaust
    via Ru Net
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 EqRwP6vVQAAKAlc?format=jpg&name=4096x4096Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 EqRw9XjUUAIrbry?format=jpg&name=900x900

    https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1343322820760141825

    I see, can we assume the F-35 is using a similar method.
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 780
    Points : 810
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  mnztr on Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:44 pm

    Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6941
    Points : 6931
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  Isos on Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:47 pm

    mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

    Some sort of shelters because their "skin" is more sensitive than that of su-27 or mig-29. RAM coatings are sensitive and expensive.

    But I doubt they will go for the hard shelters. I rather see them making some inflatable or light hangars just to protect from weather and small drones.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 10004
    Points : 10082
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:01 pm

    Isos wrote:
    mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

    Some sort of shelters because their "skin" is more sensitive than that of su-27 or mig-29. RAM coatings are sensitive and expensive.

    But I doubt they will go for the hard shelters. I rather see them making some inflatable or light hangars just to protect from weather and small drones.

    Hopefully they will start putting all their aircraft in shelters

    What they do now is a travesty

    Just because something can be left out in the snow and rain doesn't mean it should be


    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 3671
    Points : 3669
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 44
    Location : Merkelland

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  Hole on Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:01 pm

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Eqa_xk10
    fan art, but still nice.

    LMFS and Backman like this post

    dino00
    dino00

    Posts : 1472
    Points : 1511
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 33
    Location : portugal

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  dino00 on Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:17 pm

    Russian Defense Ministry is going to increase purchases of fifth generation Su-57 fighters

    "Already, measures are underway to further increase the purchase of Su-57 aircraft, the results of which will be taken into account in the new state armament program," Krivoruchko said in an interview with the official newspaper of the Russian Ministry of Defense "Krasnaya Zvezda".

    https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=543926&lang=RU

    George1, kvs, PapaDragon, LMFS and Hole like this post

    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6941
    Points : 6931
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  Isos on Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:38 pm

    That's quite normal. I think they were afraid of the price but now they started to produce them and that the program is stable (not like f-35 that is exponentially growing year after year) they will only buy this aircraft.

    Su-35/30 will for sure be replaced by 57 on production lines sooner than expected.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 2774
    Points : 2776
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  LMFS on Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:48 pm

    mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

    There were news relatively little time ago about some sort of cover to protect the plane and difficult its detection, some say they referred something like this:

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 15992010

    There was also talk about some special inflatable hangars with equipment to check the status of the RAM and eventually repair it.
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon

    Posts : 10004
    Points : 10082
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:54 pm

    Isos wrote:That's quite normal. I think they were afraid of the price but now they started to produce them and that the program is stable (not like f-35 that is exponentially growing year after year) they will only buy this aircraft.

    Su-35/30 will for sure be replaced by 57 on production lines sooner than expected.

    Su-35 yes but not Su-30

    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 8354
    Points : 8499
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:41 am

    Even a quasi-temporary shelter is preferable.   A cover does not protect the aircraft from temperature swings and humidity.
    An enclosed space damps temperature variations and controls the humidity level.   Russia can afford such things.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 2774
    Points : 2776
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  LMFS on Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:45 am

    Very interesting, maybe it has been shown before but I did not notice: the Su-57 taking off without even needing to deploy flaps, that is some serious body lift IMHO. Look also the very small deflection of the stabilisators by that angle of attack:

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Su57-blue-01-takeoff-768x512
    kvs wrote:
    Even a quasi-temporary shelter is preferable.   A cover does not protect the aircraft from temperature swings and humidity.
    An enclosed space damps temperature variations and controls the humidity level.   Russia can afford such things.

    On their permanent bases, for sure. But it is intelligent to think in ways to keep them operational when they need to be dispersed, maybe away from well equipped bases.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6762
    Points : 6913
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:01 am

    AlfaT8 wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:I've been looking forever for this, but thanks to Cyberspec it's been found again finally! Ever wonder why the Su-57 didn't get flat nozzles? Well the USSR developed them and used them on a testbed Su-27, and found that it reduced thrust by a ridiculous 15%, and they actually developed a better solution to reduce thermal signature for the engine nozzles...
    Heat / IR sig reduction system for Su-57. According to the chart, it reduces the IR sig from the engine exhaust by 3 - 3.5 times. Details are classified but it's assumed an aerosol substance is injected into the exhaust
    via Ru Net
    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 EqRwP6vVQAAKAlc?format=jpg&name=4096x4096Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 EqRw9XjUUAIrbry?format=jpg&name=900x900

    https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1343322820760141825

    I see, can we assume the F-35 is using a similar method.

    Absolutely not lmao! lol1 The creation of aerosols/cosmosols as a means of obscuring detection is a USSR/Russian field of achievement, and the US has almost invested nothing in this field of study....which is amusing considering it's well known that many radar wavelengths, visible and thermal radiation means of detection suffer greatly in bad weather conditions, and these aerosol/cosmosol obscurants recreate these conditions in a very localized space.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon

    Posts : 6762
    Points : 6913
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:06 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

    Some sort of shelters because their "skin" is more sensitive than that of su-27 or mig-29. RAM coatings are sensitive and expensive.

    But I doubt they will go for the hard shelters. I rather see them making some inflatable or light hangars just to protect from weather and small drones.

    Hopefully they will start putting all their aircraft in shelters

    What they do now is a travesty

    Just because something can be left out in the snow and rain doesn't mean it should be



    Ru MOD has stated that they're heavily investing in the implementation of 3D printing shelters, also on another front Ru MOD also stated they're creating a new institution specifically for building military shelters, based on a non-profit model. So basically this institution will be made to build many military shelters for next to nothing, likely with the aid of 3D printing machines.
    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 2774
    Points : 2776
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  LMFS on Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:14 am

    An article with some nice sources about the LO design of the Su-57:

    https://aviation21.ru/stels-texnologii-su-57-tolko-fakty/

    Backman likes this post

    Backman
    Backman

    Posts : 265
    Points : 269
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  Backman on Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:19 am

    LMFS wrote:An article with some nice sources about the LO design of the Su-57:

    https://aviation21.ru/stels-texnologii-su-57-tolko-fakty/

    This is very important stuff. Must read.

    For anyone who might not know, post the link in the Microsoft Edge browser, and it will auto translate it.




    PhSt
    PhSt

    Posts : 349
    Points : 353
    Join date : 2019-04-02

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  PhSt on Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:16 am

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Su-57_krr-1024x576
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 8354
    Points : 8499
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  kvs on Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:50 am

    Now imagine how any EM wave entering this cavity will exit it. Line of sight for the radar blocker is not straight to any surface
    radar station. Any wave entering at an angle will bounce around inside the duct and that lip on the bottom is not a spurious
    decoration but a design element resulting from wave reflection calculations.

    lyle6 and Scorpius like this post

    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 780
    Points : 810
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  mnztr on Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:24 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Isos wrote:
    mnztr wrote:Will these planes have shelters or will they be parked outside like most Russian planes?

    Some sort of shelters because their "skin" is more sensitive than that of su-27 or mig-29. RAM coatings are sensitive and expensive.

    But I doubt they will go for the hard shelters. I rather see them making some inflatable or light hangars just to protect from weather and small drones.

    Hopefully they will start putting all their aircraft in shelters

    What they do now is a travesty

    Just because something can be left out in the snow and rain doesn't mean it should be



    Yes it seems quite insane to build a 30-40M plane and cheap out on even a 100K shelter to protect it and allow the techs to work on it properly.
    avatar
    mnztr

    Posts : 780
    Points : 810
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  mnztr on Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:31 am

    magnumcromagnon wrote:



    Ru MOD has stated that they're heavily investing in the implementation of 3D printing shelters, also on another front Ru MOD also stated they're creating a new institution specifically for building military shelters, based on a non-profit model. So basically this institution will be made to build many military shelters for next to nothing, likely with the aid of 3D printing machines.

    that would be cool!! They could also make rammed earth shelters and get the civil engineering batallions to build them for super cheap
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 6941
    Points : 6931
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  Isos on Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:28 am

    A house can be build for less than 100k. A shelter is far less expensive if it is simple.
    avatar
    owais.usmani

    Posts : 437
    Points : 437
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 34

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  owais.usmani on Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:42 pm

    https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10382481

    MOSCOW, December 30. / TASS /. The Ministry of Defense plans to increase the supply of aircraft to the troops, in particular, additional purchases of promising Su-57 fighters are planned. This was announced by Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.
    avatar
    calripson

    Posts : 382
    Points : 415
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Good

    Post  calripson on Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:44 pm

    owais.usmani wrote:https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10382481

    MOSCOW, December 30. / TASS /. The Ministry of Defense plans to increase the supply of aircraft to the troops, in particular, additional purchases of promising Su-57 fighters are planned. This was announced by Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko in an interview with the Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper.

    Clearly the planned number is insufficient. Time to shift all 4th generation production to 5th.
    kvs
    kvs

    Posts : 8354
    Points : 8499
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Canuckistan

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  kvs on Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:10 pm

    Why numbers thrown around in the Russian media and put out from various official sources are never to be taken at face value.

    LMFS
    LMFS

    Posts : 2774
    Points : 2776
    Join date : 2018-03-03

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  LMFS on Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:34 pm

    kvs wrote:Why numbers thrown around in the Russian media and put out from various official sources are never to be taken at face value.

    Because you now, Russians

    It is simply appalling. Some US PR guy says "my plane is -40 dBsm" and automatically anything worse than that is useless shit. No freakin anyone bothers actually understanding that such RCS is not only essentially impossible to achieve on a 20 m long plane full of systems and mechanical, moving elements, but it is even hard to measure properly in an anechoic chamber (!) This is the level of return of a pitot tube or an integrated antenna, any piece of metal of 1cm has that return already (!). The E-2D works in UHF and it can detect stealth and guide missiles to the target, but any Russian radar either cannot detect stealth, or cannot guide missiles, or none of both. No problem taking any crap from Western MIC, but from Russia it all must be lies and disinformation. It is really pathetic.

    Big_Gazza, kvs, tanino and Scorpius like this post


    Sponsored content

    Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7 Empty Re: Su-57 Stealth Fighter: News #7

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:37 am