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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #50

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:06 am

    It isn't the first time the evil Russkie are playing with time. They have stolen supa dupa missile long before Muricans finally constructed one. Donald said that. Not the Duck.

    Edit : there are reports about an increasing number of Russian FPVD equipped with night vision/thermal imaging cameras. Ukrs are shocked that Russkie can afford to put a TI on something that is deliberately single-use only. Dozens of different attacks have already been documented along the entire frontline.

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    Post  Hole Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:26 am

    In one of the last videos on the Military Summary Channel was a nice compilation of such attacks.
    The west will blame the Chinese for delivering that supa-dupa tech to the backward Russians.

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    Post  mnztr Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:12 pm

    PhSt wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #50 - Page 37 Photo_16

    NATO is already celebrating the Terrorist attack and is insulting the victims

    Russia needs to Bomb NATO Pig civilians with no less than 1000 casualties ASAP attack


    What idiots decided to have this concert 60 km from the front lines? Just a few weeks ago Russsia wiped out an awards ceremony for the AFU, they were lusting for revenge. 60 km is not even hard for HIMARS. Donbas also has Urkainian spies. The idiocy of holding this event is unfathomable.

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    Post  owais.usmani Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:57 pm

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    Post  Isos Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:47 pm

    A-50U should have a range of 500km against 15m2 rcs like su-27 or f-15 have. When armed it's even better because rcs is bigger.

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    Post  JohninMK Wed Nov 22, 2023 2:42 pm

    Special Operation, November 22. Highlights:

    ▪ The first group of the Russian battalion named after Khmelnitsky, consisting of former Ukrainian prisoners of war, has been deployed on a combat mission, as reported by fighter Victor Kirichansky with the call sign "Kirik."

    ▪ Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Goryemykin, inspected units on the Zaporizhzhia direction and awarded fighters distinguished in battles near Rabotnoe.

    ▪ In the past 24 hours, the Russian Armed Forces destroyed a warehouse of aircraft bombs and missiles of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, as well as S-300 air defense systems. They also shot down a Ukrainian MiG-29 near Vozdvizhenka in the Donetsk People's Republic, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense.

    ▪ Russian Armed Forces repelled attacks by the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the Kupiansk, Krasnoarmiisk, Donetsk, Southern Donetsk, and Zaporizhzhia directions. Overall, during the hostilities on all fronts, the Ukrainian Armed Forces lost about 420 servicemen and at least 24 units of equipment, not counting aviation and munitions, according to the Russian Ministry of Defense.

    ▪ On November 22, the Russian Armed Forces detected and destroyed four naval drones of the Ukrainian Navy heading to Crimea. Additionally, Russian air defense shot down three Ukrainian UAVs of aerial type over Crimea, as reported by the Russian Ministry of Defense.

    ▪ Former head coach of the Dagestan national kickboxing team, Akhmedov, faces charges of state treason for participating in battles on the side of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, according to a source. According to the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs database, Akhmedov is wanted.

    ▪ The United States is attempting to "moderate Zelensky's appetites," demanding a report on the use of funds allocated by the West for the Ukrainian summer counteroffensive. Simultaneously, they are seeking to shift the burden of supporting the Kyiv authorities onto Europe, stated the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Zakharova.

    ▪ Ahead of winter, Kyiv is "asking" the United States for short-range Sentinel radars to protect weapons plants, reports Politico, citing a source.

    ▪ Canada does not plan to provide military assistance to Ukraine after 2025. The country's budget project indicates that just under $1 billion will be allocated for assistance to Kyiv over three financial years until 2026.

    ▪ Germany has transferred to Ukraine 20 Marder infantry fighting vehicles and over 2,000 artillery shells of 155mm caliber since November 13, according to the updated list of weapons supplied to Kyiv on the website of the German government.

    ▪ The Swiss Federal Council has allowed Germany to sell 25 Leopard 2A4 tanks. Berlin assured that these tanks would not go to Kyiv but remain in Germany, EU countries, or NATO countries.
    5:59 PM · Nov 22, 2023
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:40 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    What idiots decided to have this concert 60 km from the front lines? Just a few weeks ago Russsia wiped out an awards ceremony for the AFU, they were lusting for revenge. 60 km is not even hard for HIMARS. Donbas also has Urkainian spies. The idiocy of holding this event is unfathomable.

    Probably the only Safe Place in Donetsk oblast Is Mariupol, since it is more than 100 km from Donetsk.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:51 pm

    Isos wrote:A-50U should have a range of 500km against 15m2 rcs like su-27 or f-15 have. When armed it's even better because rcs is bigger.

    A50U is detecting storm shadow from 400km, that has RCS better than F-117/f35/f22 due to shaping, size, and radar coating

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    Post  Isos Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:22 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Isos wrote:A-50U should have a range of 500km against 15m2 rcs like su-27 or f-15 have. When armed it's even better because rcs is bigger.

    A50U is detecting storm shadow from 400km, that has RCS better than F-117/f35/f22 due to shaping, size, and radar coating


    Not really impacting. Its radar should work in lower frequencies than the fighter's radar against which stealth is optimized. It will see f-22 at decent range too.

    Su-27 and f-15 have big rcs but also carry their weapons externally making them very easy to spot.

    400km against a missile is a bit optimistic tho.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:31 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Isos wrote:A-50U should have a range of 500km against 15m2 rcs like su-27 or f-15 have. When armed it's even better because rcs is bigger.

    A50U is detecting storm shadow from 400km, that has RCS better than F-117/f35/f22 due to shaping, size, and radar coating


    We can't know just how detectable the Storm Shadow/Scalp stealth misisles are, but on the average these things fail to get through, and in my book this totally BUSTS the stupid myth about the "invulnerability" of stealth platforms.

    Similarly, Israeli F-35s aren't used for striking within Syrian territory, so you have to ask why. Clearly it is because the Syrian networked AD system, while far from perfect, is a lethal threat to an F-35 and the probability of losses is deemed high enough for the US to forbid their use, else LM suffer a catastrophic hit to their well-oiled PR/Marketting machine.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:35 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    ▪ Canada does not plan to provide military assistance to Ukraine after 2025.

    Probably because banderastan won't exist beyond that date Twisted Evil

    ▪ The Swiss Federal Council has allowed Germany to sell 25 Leopard 2A4 tanks

    Good. The demand for 2A4s in Russian military parks is very high and the supply of suitably intact trophies is rather tight. Maybe we can save the Germans a few Euros and just get them to deliver them direct to the final end-user? They can save more money on not supplying the ammo, as the parks only need a few samples for display purposes. Just another small example in which Russia lends a helping hand to its European "partners"... Razz

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Nov 22, 2023 6:47 pm

    Hole wrote:The west will blame the Chinese for delivering that supa-dupa tech to the backward Russians.

    Good, and we should encourage these arrogant bastards to keep making stupid mistakes...

    Pak FA and Armata are vapourware projects, and won't work even if they build them...
    Russia is behind in hypersonic missile research...
    Russia is reliant on the West for microelectronics...
    Russians can't build high-bypass ratio afterburning turbofans...
    Russians couldn't possibly build closed-cycle LOX-rich rocket engines...
    China and Russia will always be enemies, they could never develop a strategic partnership...
    Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country...
    Russia will get stuck in the Syrian quagmire...
    Angara space launcher is a failure because of its low test cadence...
    Vostochny Cosmodrome is a white elephant and a Putin vanity project...
    Cutting Russia off from SWIFT will torpedo their economy...
    Western sanctions will crush Russia and result in regime change...
    Russia will be internationally isolated as a result of the SMO...
    Russian troops will break and run away when the Ukrainian Cyborgs launch their invincible counter-offensive...
    Putin is corrupt and has a secret stash of hundreds of billions of stolen dollars and a private palace on the Black Sea...

    Razz  Razz  Razz  Razz  Razz

    So much stupid brain-dead BS, so little capacity to learn from their own unforced errors.   Twisted Evil

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    Post  mnztr Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:26 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    Isos wrote:A-50U should have a range of 500km against 15m2 rcs like su-27 or f-15 have. When armed it's even better because rcs is bigger.

    A50U is detecting storm shadow from 400km, that has RCS better than F-117/f35/f22 due to shaping, size, and radar coating


    A50u is detecting from above. All stealth RCS figure are quoted from the front. From the top and any other aspect other then front dead center, RCS increases rapidly.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:55 pm

    1) Western propaganda

    It is ironic... if the Orcs had not been so indoctrinated then they would probably have been more sensible and practical and hundreds of thousands of them would still be alive now, but equally if they had recognised propaganda when they saw it this conflict might never have happened in the first place, and Russian orders for Ukrainian engines and rocket parts and other things they produced would be massively increasing now as the economy in Russia grew.

    mentioned that it is quite strange that since a few years ago (I do not know when it started exactly, maybe just before the Euro2012 football tournament) there has been a strong propaganda in Poland in favour of Ukraine.
    Before that Ukrainians were hated as much as the Russians.

    That would be when Clinton and Biden hatched the plan and started buying up assets and resources in Ukraine the way they did in Russia in the 1990s... except this time they made sure they turned the local population against an outside entity that they could blame for all their problems and their situation...

    There is an exhibition of a destroyed Russian tank in Helsinki: https://mil.in.ua/en/news/a-damaged-russian-tank-was-brought-to-finland-for-an-exhibition/

    I suppose the only reason for this exhibition is that “Russian soldiers died in the tank” and people want to see it themselves.

    Didn't a European country do that before and it totally backfired because the people put flowers on the tank and it became an anti war rally instead of an anti Russian one that they hoped for.

    So they're down to sending meth heads to combat now?

    Actually from some reports I would say the barely trained conscripts opposed to being there, weren't they giving them drugs to get them to walk towards the Russian positions so they could spot where the Russians were firing from and engage them before they moved forward?

    How can the older vehicle be the answer to the younger one?

    More importantly the first versions of Bradley had the same single man turret of the BMP-1, it was only changed when they saw the BMP-2 and worked out that a single person turret is not ideal.

    The west will blame the Chinese for delivering that supa-dupa tech to the backward Russians.

    You can get cellphones with thermal cameras on them for less than $1K, and you can buy thermal cameras that connect to your phone for even less.

    Good, and we should encourage these arrogant bastards to keep making stupid mistakes...

    The best thing is that this isn't something Russia and China did to the West... this is what the West has done to itself... and they don't seem interested in stopping...

    A50u is detecting from above. All stealth RCS figure are quoted from the front. From the top and any other aspect other then front dead center, RCS increases rapidly.

    Double post, so I will delete one for you... but when targets are more than say 20km away when you are 10km up you are not really looking down on them at a significant angle... when they are 200km away even less are you looking from above.

    Having said that, the entire purpose of the AWACS in Russian service is to find and track low flying threats like missiles and stealthy aircraft so I would expect they use all sorts of clever radar technology across special frequencies and processing to negate the effects of stealth coatings and stealth shaping.

    A fighter plane 20 metres long with a supposed RCS of an insect in high frequency radar wavelengths does not look the same in longer wavelengths but an insect would, which means there are probably lots of different ways of isolating the return signals from actual insects from aircraft and missiles pretending to be insects.

    For a start an insect flying at over 100km per hour or at 10km altitude at 800km/h is probably not an insect no matter how strong or weak its RCS might be.

    Old look down shoot down radar used to ignore things near the ground moving at motorway speeds so it didn't pick up traffic, which meant an An-2 flying very close to the ground at 75km/h would be removed from radar screens as noise even though it was not even close to being stealthy.

    Russia has been working on combining the signals of radars operating in very different frequencies and combining the returns via computer processing power to eliminate all the drawbacks of long wave radar (like imprecise radar ranging) and add all the advantages (ability to see objects despite coatings and materials and shaping to redirect radar waves away from the source radar) together with a high frequency radar that provides all the missing information.

    I rather suspect they will add optics to that recipe.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:59 pm

    What idiots decided to have this concert 60 km from the front lines? Just a few weeks ago Russsia wiped out an awards ceremony for the AFU, they were lusting for revenge. 60 km is not even hard for HIMARS. Donbas also has Urkainian spies. The idiocy of holding this event is unfathomable.

    Pretty clear they need regulations that if such concerts are to take place that the PVO needs to be informed and that the venue needs to get the air protection that an HQ would get for the duration of the event.

    Such things are good for morale, but not when this happens...

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:26 am

    GarryB wrote:
    What idiots decided to have this concert 60 km from the front lines? .....

    Pretty clear they need regulations that if such concerts are to take place that the PVO needs to be informed and that the venue needs to get the air protection that an HQ would get for the duration of the event......

    Or simply don't do it in the first place because it's fuckin retarded


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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:53 am

    Well, no, these guys are not idiots but they went to this for entertainment.

    The point is that if you cancel all these things some might wonder if Russia is winning this or not, besides if they can defend HQs and other things then they should be able to protect this sort of thing...

    Plus they could use it as a test because someone obviously betrayed the event to the enemy and it would be interesting to be able to work out who that was, but you wont work that out from one event.
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    Post  dionis Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:06 am

    Holding events like that within range of anything between HIMARS to Storm Shadow range is unacceptable. Get a bus and move the people on leave to somewhere in Russia proper .. border isn't that far.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:16 am

    Funny... and what is the range of the versions they are using?

    What if they get a longer range version and don't tell you?

    Having it closer to the front line but protecting it would actually make it safer than holding it further back in the rear, and bussing people all round the place makes them vulnerable to attack too.

    I would expect it would be an opportunity for some counter spy work to find out who is tipping them off...
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    Post  mnztr Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:25 am

    Double post, so I will delete one for you... but when targets are more than say 20km away when you are 10km up you are not really looking down on them at a significant angle... when they are 200km away even less are you looking from above. wrote:

    That depend to a degree on how much higher you are. The storm shadows fly very low. So at 35K feet above they would still present a significant radar cross section from a good distance. You have to remember, radar send waves, not beams.
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    Post  dionis Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:58 am

    GarryB wrote:Funny... and what is the range of the versions they are using?

    What if they get a longer range version and don't tell you?

    Having it closer to the front line but protecting it would actually make it safer than holding it further back in the rear, and bussing people all round the place makes them vulnerable to attack too.

    I would expect it would be an opportunity for some counter spy work to find out who is tipping them off...

    When's the last time those weapons caused mass casualties in Russia proper near the border? That's about all there is to it.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 23, 2023 4:18 am

    That depend to a degree on how much higher you are. The storm shadows fly very low. So at 35K feet above they would still present a significant radar cross section from a good distance. You have to remember, radar send waves, not beams.

    The A-50 is based on the Il-76 so it is not going to be flying at 20km altitude... I doubt it would be flying at more than 10,000m.

    The earth is a ball so it curves away with distance... waves to find and beams to track.

    When you can only go up 10km, when you are looking sideways 300km or 400km then you are not really looking down as much as sideways.

    If you imagine you are in an aircraft at 10km and you are looking at things 200-300km away they will be on the horizon and not below you looking down.


    When's the last time those weapons caused mass casualties in Russia proper near the border? That's about all there is to it.

    This was certainly not their only entertainment for the troops, but if they had regulations for PVO to defend such events even the odd attack like this one would have failed.

    Allows the frontline troops to be entertained and they will get confidence too... because Russian air defence is certainly capable of stopping this sort of thing.

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    Post  Belisarius Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:32 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #50 - Page 37 F_kqhw10
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:43 am

    Holding concerts near the front is a risk, certainly, but its not really different from the 101 different ways the MoD manages morale issues for the soldiers in the front.

    Let the hohols and their fans gloat. The Russians are not the ones who sacrificed two fucking corps smashing head first into a wall of fire and steel and mud for PR points and even now is sending entire companies of men across a major water obstacle to be slaughtered like fucking ducks.


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    Post  franco Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:49 am

    mnztr wrote:
    PhSt wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #50 - Page 37 Photo_16

    NATO is already celebrating the Terrorist attack and is insulting the victims

    Russia needs to Bomb NATO Pig civilians with no less than 1000 casualties ASAP attack


    What idiots decided to have this concert 60 km from the front lines? Just a few weeks ago Russsia wiped out an awards ceremony for the AFU, they were lusting for revenge. 60 km is not even hard for HIMARS. Donbas also has Urkainian spies. The idiocy of holding this event is unfathomable.

    Not sure of how many casualties there were in total (Ukes claiming 20 KIA) but from the video of the hit you will notice the roof above her sag. According to other Russian sources it was only the roof over the stage that collapsed.

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