Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+64
Manov
flamming_python
ucmvulcan
caveat emptor
zorobabel
Lapain
par far
Regular
Arrow
Mir
nomadski
lyle6
Big_Gazza
Tolstoy
Belisarius
Karl Haushofer
TMA1
rfan
PhSt
Erk
higurashihougi
kvs
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
AlfaT8
GunshipDemocracy
Airbornewolf
thegopnik
mr_hd
Odin of Ossetia
PapaDragon
SolidarityWithRussia
ALAMO
GarryB
Backman
Godric
Kiko
JohninMK
Hole
mnztr
sepheronx
Ispan
AMCXXL
Pincus Shain
T-47
Tsavo Lion
ArgentinaGuard
franco
Werewolf
Dr.Snufflebug
littlerabbit
owais.usmani
zare
Walther von Oldenburg
Isos
LMFS
d_taddei2
SeigSoloyvov
VARGR198
bandit6
Sujoy
SovietAce
Sprut-B
billybatts91
Firebird
68 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    VARGR198
    VARGR198


    Posts : 657
    Points : 663
    Join date : 2015-08-09

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  VARGR198 Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:04 pm



    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, GunshipDemocracy, zardof and Mir like this post

    avatar
    Belisarius


    Posts : 764
    Points : 764
    Join date : 2022-01-04

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Belisarius Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:26 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Img_2353
    Interesting note: although I’m aware Mediazona’s confirmed Russian loss counter isn’t totally accurate, but going by their numbers Russia has been incurring very few casualties over the last 3 months compared to most of the conflict.
    https://t.me/VampireSix/360

    GarryB, franco, flamming_python, d_taddei2, kvs, GunshipDemocracy, Broski and jon_deluxe like this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15213
    Points : 15350
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  kvs Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:29 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    kvs wrote:Exactly, Russia is trying to minimize civilian losses and misery.   Taking out the Ukr electrical grid is not going to change much at the
    front.   They would have to bomb every road and seed vast tracts of territory with mines to shut off Ukr munitions flows.   Has anyone
    ever heard of a full shut-off of logistics tactic being applied in major wars?   More arm chair general "planning".


    yes it worked with Germany and Japan in WWII. They created a massive fuel shortage. Why do you think Japan sent the Yamato, a 80K ton battleship on a suicide mission with half tanks?

    BS. Germany was bombed by the western allies round the clock but kept operating and it was losses on the eastern front that eventually caused its collapse.

    You have not provided an example. Every single road between Germany and the eastern front was not obliterated and the logistics kept operating right until the end.

    sepheronx, GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, ALAMO, galicije83, zardof and like this post

    avatar
    Belisarius


    Posts : 764
    Points : 764
    Join date : 2022-01-04

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Belisarius Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:31 pm

    mnztr wrote:

    yes it worked with Germany and Japan in WWII. They created a massive fuel shortage. Why do you think Japan sent the Yamato, a 80K ton battleship on a suicide mission with half tanks?

    Germany and Japan never had enough fuel to begin with, Allied attacks only exacerbated problems that already existed due to lack of resources in the axis countries.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO, PapaDragon, GunshipDemocracy, zardof and like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6868
    Points : 6960
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:02 pm

    VARGR198 wrote:


    It is totally unrealistic.
    I don't know a single Ukrainian male who returned in the last 18 months.
    And not a single who even considers that.
    Most of them are already well established here, with jobs, places to live, and plans for the future.
    Some have already settled locally based own businesses.
    Oh sure, Zhenia, gardner, will surely close his business here and will go back to get killed. He dreams about that every single moment.
    Bogdan who is a paver and can earn 1000 euros in two days can't wait for the opportunity to be a Leopard driver either. Not sure what his girlfriend has to say about that, as she is pregnant and can't get stressed Laughing
    Siergiey who drives for DHL has a wet dreams about driving the same VAN over the minefields.
    And all the guys who left the Banderastan after 2014 have nothing better to do rather to get back and get killed for Bandera Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

    GarryB, franco, flamming_python, Big_Gazza, Godric, GunshipDemocracy, JohninMK and like this post

    Odin of Ossetia dislikes this post

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1782
    Points : 1782
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  caveat emptor Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:30 pm

    GUR published videos of attack on Pskov airport. It was done by DRG that launched simple quadrocopters with underbelly explosives.
    These attacks as ones done by FPV drones can be successfully foiled by building a simple metal wire fence barrier around planes.

    https://t.me/rybar/51408?single

    GunshipDemocracy, Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E and Broski like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6868
    Points : 6960
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:35 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:GUR published videos of attack on Pskov airport. It was done by DRG that launched simple quadrocopters with underbelly explosives.
    These attacks as ones done by FPV drones can be successfully foiled by building a simple metal wire fence barrier around planes.
    https://t.me/rybar/51408?single

    Which only presents how the mouth full of shit on some TG Russkie channels operate.
    And how we all should STFU until things get clear rather than running like a madman with a torch in his arse.

    Rammstein airbase has a very nice parking next to a cinema, some 500m straight line from the shelters and maybe 1500m from a runway. A good place to put a few dozen of drones, while you control them from the cinema roof that gives a great panoramic perspective over all the base.

    Yeah, a "24/7 working TOR" would make a difference, surely Laughing Laughing

    sepheronx, GarryB, flamming_python, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, JohninMK, Hole and like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 2798
    Points : 2836
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  mnztr Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:00 pm

    kvs wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    kvs wrote:Exactly, Russia is trying to minimize civilian losses and misery.   Taking out the Ukr electrical grid is not going to change much at the
    front.   They would have to bomb every road and seed vast tracts of territory with mines to shut off Ukr munitions flows.   Has anyone
    ever heard of a full shut-off of logistics tactic being applied in major wars?   More arm chair general "planning".


    yes it worked with Germany and Japan in WWII. They created a massive fuel shortage. Why do you think Japan sent the Yamato, a 80K ton battleship on a suicide mission with half tanks?

    BS.  Germany was bombed by the western allies round the clock but kept operating and it was losses on the eastern front that eventually caused its collapse.  

    You have not provided an example.   Every single road between Germany and the eastern front was not obliterated and the logistics kept operating right until the end.


    Lack of fuel made it harder and harder to operate and made them less effective militarily. The plan for the battle of the bulge was to capture fuel to keep the offensive going. When that failed it collapsed. Also the lack of fuel hugely reduced their air defense, they could only launch when the allies were close and could do little CAP. and it was a big element in the Japanese defeat as well. So while its true you can keep fighting with sticks, if your enemy has tanks and fuel its not gonna work out well.

    flamming_python and Big_Gazza like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9077
    Points : 9139
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:01 pm

    Belisarius wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Img_2353
    Interesting note: although I’m aware Mediazona’s confirmed Russian loss counter isn’t totally accurate, but going by their numbers Russia has been incurring very few casualties over the last 3 months compared to most of the conflict.
    https://t.me/VampireSix/360

    And note how high it was at the height of the battle for Bakhmut too

    And yet there are those who insist on Russia launching a blitzkrieg all along the entire front and to assault every major city. Because no, Russia simply can't tolerate the sort of casualties they've suffered in August and sit around in exceptionally-built fortification lines for much longer, the Ukrainian will to commit hare-kari will outlast them Sad


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, franco, d_taddei2, kvs, GunshipDemocracy, Broski and jon_deluxe like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 2798
    Points : 2836
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  mnztr Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:01 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:GUR published videos of attack on Pskov airport. It was done by DRG that launched simple quadrocopters with underbelly explosives.
    These attacks as ones done by FPV drones can be successfully foiled by building a simple metal wire fence barrier around planes.

    https://t.me/rybar/51408?single

    Whats a DRG?
    Walther von Oldenburg
    Walther von Oldenburg


    Posts : 1673
    Points : 1788
    Join date : 2015-01-23
    Age : 33
    Location : Oldenburg

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Walther von Oldenburg Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:13 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:GUR published videos of attack on Pskov airport. It was done by DRG that launched simple quadrocopters with underbelly explosives.
    These attacks as ones done by FPV drones can be successfully foiled by building a simple metal wire fence barrier around planes.

    https://t.me/rybar/51408?single

    Whats a DRG?
    Diversionary Recon Group?

    Begome likes this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9077
    Points : 9139
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  flamming_python Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:20 pm

    mr_hd wrote:Actually there are plenty of information that Ukraine now has established some kind of military production like ammunition's in almost any town across the country. I am talking about thousand of sites.
    They are doing the same for UAVs, there are reports that sometime they are using small makeshift buildings in the middle of small villages too - in order to spread and diversify supply and make it impossible that production is suppressed by long range attacks.

    They are starting to produce they own howitzer too.

    There are more then enough signs that they are increasing own production of various equipment.

    Well nice to know that the Ukraine has to resort to cottage industries home workshops to produce what the West had earlier promised yet failed to supply it in sufficient quantities

    However this sort of initiative is hopeless for supplying an actual army. An insurgency or partisan movement can be supplied by it, but not tanks, artillery, aircraft and so on in large formations.
    Smaller production sites are always going to lose out. The highest outputs with the most efficient production processes and the highest amount of output per worker you can always get at these giant factories and industrial basins Russia and other advanced economies have. Ukraine had such until recently too. As you start going down the scale though and spread things out you'll lose efficiency, you'll lose organized production lines, automation, large-scale machinery, and concentrated expertise. Economies of scale - can't get around it.

    And for strategic programs they built underground facilities - weapons like missiles that are strategic for them would not be built in any normal building that can be easily bombed.

    Well as strategic you can get with a hand blowtorch and 220v welding set I guess. And by underground facilities I assume they mean the basement. Anything serious has long become Kinzhal fodder or will do as soon as they're discovered.

    Having own weapons make sense since they do not fall under any Wester restrictions. Additionally Russian weapons are perfectly built to match and neutralize western ones. So bringing new models that are hybrid is actually sometimes more effective then to have very expensive and sophisticated western models that are expensive and complex to operate and nightmare for maintenance and not effective at the end.

    Whatever the Ukraine can come up with in some garage workshops is not going to be 'hybrid' or 'more effective' or somehow outmatch russkie weapons that according to you are only designed against NATO equipment.. no, it's just going to be a deathtrap. The end. The Ukraine had 'indigenous' weapons production. Stuff like the T-64, T-84, Kozak, BTR-4, and a whole bunch of modernization packages for Soviet models. Some of it was pretty good. Some was lacking. But the production capacity for all of it has long been taken out, and what Uncle Mikola and his buddy Ihor can weld together in some deserted hall of the Nikolayev shipyards that the Russians haven't even bothered to blow up is not going to be any sort of substitute.

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, Manov, Walther von Oldenburg, PapaDragon, zardof and like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6868
    Points : 6960
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:29 pm

    mnztr wrote:

    Whats a DRG?

    Diversionno-razviedatielnaya grupa.
    A special forces diversion&recon unit DELTA/SEALS style.
    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 710
    Points : 726
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri Sep 01, 2023 9:49 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:GUR published videos of attack on Pskov airport. It was done by DRG that launched simple quadrocopters with underbelly explosives.
    These attacks as ones done by FPV drones can be successfully foiled by building a simple metal wire fence barrier around planes.
    https://t.me/rybar/51408?single
    Yeah, a "24/7 working TOR" would make a difference, surely Laughing Laughing

    Khmeimim Air Base has been regularly attacked by drones since 2016. Over the months and years, these became increasingly perfidious, smaller and better managed. Those aren't cameleers driving those drones. The Russian Air Force Command said very clearly: Pantsir is not able to intercept these small commercial hobby drones but TORM2 almost 100%.

    You are not new to the forum and should be familiar with the reports and statements as well as the attacks there. The development in Ukraine arose in the exact line of these experiences of the USA through its IS terrorists! The same attack pattern, the same drones just completely different profiles.

    GarryB, kvs, zardof, Backman, Kiko and jon_deluxe like this post

    Kiko
    Kiko


    Posts : 2887
    Points : 2933
    Join date : 2020-11-11
    Age : 75
    Location : Brasilia

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Kiko Fri Sep 01, 2023 9:52 pm

    Russia to Allocate $20.7Bln for Development of New Regions in Coming Years - Putin, 09.01.2023.

    MOSCOW (Sputnik) - The Russian authorities will allocate almost 2 trillion rubles ($20.7 billion) in the coming years for the development of Russia's new regions, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday.

    "In the coming 2.5 years, I think, I it is planned to allocate almost 2 trillion rubles from federal sources alone for the development of these territories [Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions] — 1.9 trillion rubles. This is decent money," Putin stated at a meeting with students.

    The money is to be spent in accordance with the government's program for the socioeconomic development of Russia's new regions, adopted on April 27. The first stage, according to the president, is to bring the four new regions up to all-Russian levels in terms of social issues, including medical care, education and infrastructure development.

    "These are ordinary things, but they are very important for people — they are utilities, road maintenance, restoration of higher education, cultural monuments, industry and agricultural facilities," Putin emphasized, listing the sectors that require attention.

    The government's programme is already being implemented. For example, the Russian government's Territorial Development Fund will repair more than 3,600 infrastructure facilities in Russia's new regions, according to the fund's statement released on Wednesday.

    The fund plans to carry out 1,633 restoration works, including reconstruction of 1,145 residential buildings, 227 social facilities, 173 utilities, 41 transport infrastructure facilities and 47 other projects are to be completed in the four new Russian regions by the end of 2023, the statement read.

    In late September 2022, Putin and the heads of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, as well as the Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions, signed agreements on the accession of these territories to Russia, following referendums that showed an overwhelming majority of the local population being supportive of this idea.

    https://sputnikglobe.com/20230901/russia-to-allocate-207bln-for-development-of-new-regions-in-coming-years---putin-1113060784.html

    sepheronx, GarryB, franco, par far, Big_Gazza, kvs, GunshipDemocracy and like this post

    avatar
    mnztr


    Posts : 2798
    Points : 2836
    Join date : 2018-01-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  mnztr Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:18 pm

    Belisarius wrote:
    mnztr wrote:

    yes it worked with Germany and Japan in WWII. They created a massive fuel shortage. Why do you think Japan sent the Yamato, a 80K ton battleship on a suicide mission with half tanks?

    Germany and Japan never had enough fuel to begin with, Allied attacks only exacerbated problems that already existed due to lack of resources in the axis countries.

    Well of course, the whole war with Japan started over an oil embargo. Conversely power of the USA can be traced directly to the fact that they had a lot of oil and were the first to successfully exploit it. In an all out war with Europe, if Russia can stop oil shipments to Europe (and I think they can) they are fucked. the USA will have to ship the oil, while Russia has the oil all in a nice safe place they can defend with powerful air defense assets. That said drones to alter the equation and I look forward to a defense against them.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6868
    Points : 6960
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  ALAMO Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:04 am

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
    Khmeimim Air Base has been regularly attacked by drones since 2016. Over the months and years, these became increasingly perfidious, smaller and better managed. Those aren't cameleers driving those drones. The Russian Air Force Command said very clearly: Pantsir is not able to intercept these small commercial hobby drones but TORM2 almost 100%.

    You are not new to the forum and should be familiar with the reports and statements as well as the attacks there. The development in Ukraine arose in the exact line of these experiences of the USA through its IS terrorists! The same attack pattern, the same drones just completely different profiles.

    Sure you are right, yet missing two issues.
    Who and how is supporting them, and who operates there.
    In the case of Russia, you have an environment that was infiltrated heavily before the war even started. Ukrainian refugees account for several mln people there, and Russia is not Murica. They won't put the entire population into concentration camps, as US did with the Japanese.
    Banderastani sabotage groups can use a wide array of support, which is totally different to Syria. Those are well trained, well equipped, well motivated and deeply devoted operators. The same level that Russian special forces can provide. They will succeed occasionally. That is the reality.

    Every major drone attack is being heavily assisted by the NATO recon and support. That night one more attempt to attack Kerch Bridge was prevented, and multiple semisubmersible drones were taken out. There were FOUR different NATO recon aircraft over the black sea at that moment, plus some in Poland and Romania. Since Bolton, there has been no major attack on Russian assets in Syria assisted by the NATO recon tools. The last one was carried with Bolton in charge, and made with different drones, from a longer distance giving Russkie time to search&destroy them. They have taken down 12 drones indeed.

    sepheronx, GarryB, JohninMK, Hole, Mir, Broski and Belisarius like this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39213
    Points : 39711
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:16 pm

    yes it worked with Germany and Japan in WWII. They created a massive fuel shortage. Why do you think Japan sent the Yamato, a 80K ton battleship on a suicide mission with half tanks?

    No it didn't... the western allies bombed the crap out of German and Japanese cities day after day and week after week, but the guys on the front line just kept fighting.

    When you are sent on a suicide mission you don't take more fuel than you will need... that is called mission planning.

    Lack of fuel made it harder and harder to operate and made them less effective militarily. The plan for the battle of the bulge was to capture fuel to keep the offensive going. When that failed it collapsed. Also the lack of fuel hugely reduced their air defense, they could only launch when the allies were close and could do little CAP. and it was a big element in the Japanese defeat as well. So while its true you can keep fighting with sticks, if your enemy has tanks and fuel its not gonna work out well.

    Which is why HATO are so keen to send fuel to the Orcs and why the Russians are clearly taking the time to find those fuel dumps and setting them on fire.

    What you haven't explained is how the Russians are supposed to destroy every road and every rail line and every bridge and keep hitting them so they can't be fixed so Kiev can't get weapons or ammo or fuel or men through to the front line.

    Well of course, the whole war with Japan started over an oil embargo. Conversely power of the USA can be traced directly to the fact that they had a lot of oil and were the first to successfully exploit it. In an all out war with Europe, if Russia can stop oil shipments to Europe (and I think they can) they are fucked. the USA will have to ship the oil, while Russia has the oil all in a nice safe place they can defend with powerful air defense assets. That said drones to alter the equation and I look forward to a defense against them.

    An actual war between the west and Russia and oil supplies wont matter too much.

    A row of Leopards wont stop Kinzhals and Zircons and TOPOLs.

    Big_Gazza, kvs, Hole, Broski, jon_deluxe and Belisarius like this post

    nomadski
    nomadski


    Posts : 2817
    Points : 2825
    Join date : 2017-01-02

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  nomadski Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:25 pm





    Russia is to cut oil to Europe ? So they are exporting enough somewhere else . What if some ME country export to Europe or Kazakhstan do it ? Will Russia be annoyed ? What to do ? What is fair ? Oil exporters should agree and not take the share of Russia , to traditional market . If problems exist because of war . If they do , then they participate in war , and Russia can be justifiably annoyed . Water resources are subject to international law , I think . Everyone should make efforts for a fair share , to stop environmental degradation on particular region , in favour of other regions.

    Russia can observe and dictate what passes through Ukraine borders . Special and small vehicles with open top , can be used by Ukraine , to transport civil goods , as opposed to military or heavy military . If they refuse , then large and heavy transports that are covered up , are legitimate targets , even on dirt Roads or fields .

    Simple nets near Airfield will stop many a drone at low altitude . Then AD has less to do , and has to cover the sky above planes . The taller and closer these nets , the better . Electricity pylons , already manufactured and in stock , cheap , can be erected quickly around planes .

    Odin of Ossetia likes this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3724
    Points : 3704
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:56 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    kvs wrote:Exactly, Russia is trying to minimize civilian losses and misery.   Taking out the Ukr electrical grid is not going to change much at the
    front.   They would have to bomb every road and seed vast tracts of territory with mines to shut off Ukr munitions flows.   Has anyone
    ever heard of a full shut-off of logistics tactic being applied in major wars?   More arm chair general "planning".


    yes it worked with Germany and Japan in WWII. They created a massive fuel shortage. Why do you think Japan sent the Yamato, a 80K ton battleship on a suicide mission with half tanks?

    While yes anyone saying destroying Ukraines infrastructure wouldn't do anything are complete morons who are just trying to kiss ass, and I would never take such responses seriously, what kind moron do you have to be to claim this.

    Japan isn't the best example to employ here, even before WW2 they had fuel issues, they could not produce enough oil for their fleet. This is why they invaded British held areas, to get the fuel needed to supply their forces and needs.

    Prior to US embargoing them, Japan got most of it's oil from US. Once they lost the British held rich oil areas and without us they no longer had the fuel to sustain themselves.

    Japan is a small island with no natural resources, even back then they had to mostly import all of their needs, this is why they invaded China etc.

    Yama class was also 70k, and by that point in the war the Japanese had been pushed out all their resource rich conquered areas, and their navy was destroyed. Without their carriers, Yamamto was useless, to big and a ship like that needed lots of air cover, so they did the only real thing they could do with her, try to beach her and use her guns as shore defense

    PapaDragon likes this post

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 39213
    Points : 39711
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  GarryB Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:07 pm


    Japan is a small island with no natural resources, even back then they had to mostly import all of their needs, this is why they invaded China etc.

    What a shock... US and UK.... western sanctions started the war in the Pacific and claims of Imperial Japan being a colonial power like the UK really was are BS.


    While yes anyone saying destroying Ukraines infrastructure wouldn't do anything are complete morons who are just trying to kiss ass,

    Making Ukrainian civilians suffer and starve or freeze in winter wont make them surrender any more than the Germans bombing London or the British and Americans and the Soviets bombing Germany made Germany surrender.

    It just wastes a shit ton of bombs and missiles that would be better used killing Ukrainian military targets of which there are more than enough.

    Big_Gazza, kvs, Hole, Broski, jon_deluxe and Belisarius like this post

    Godric
    Godric


    Posts : 800
    Points : 826
    Join date : 2015-04-30
    Location : Alba (Scotland)

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Godric Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:01 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
    Khmeimim Air Base has been regularly attacked by drones since 2016. Over the months and years, these became increasingly perfidious, smaller and better managed. Those aren't cameleers driving those drones. The Russian Air Force Command said very clearly: Pantsir is not able to intercept these small commercial hobby drones but TORM2 almost 100%.

    You are not new to the forum and should be familiar with the reports and statements as well as the attacks there. The development in Ukraine arose in the exact line of these experiences of the USA through its IS terrorists! The same attack pattern, the same drones just completely different profiles.

    Sure you are right, yet missing two issues.
    Who and how is supporting them, and who operates there.
    In the case of Russia, you have an environment that was infiltrated heavily before the war even started. Ukrainian refugees account for several mln people there, and Russia is not Murica. They won't put the entire population into concentration camps, as US did with the Japanese.
    Banderastani sabotage groups can use a wide array of support, which is totally different to Syria. Those are well trained, well equipped, well motivated and deeply devoted operators. The same level that Russian special forces can provide. They will succeed occasionally. That is the reality.

    Every major drone attack is being heavily assisted by the NATO recon and support. That night one more attempt to attack Kerch Bridge was prevented, and multiple semisubmersible drones were taken out. There were FOUR different NATO recon aircraft over the black sea at that moment, plus some in Poland and Romania. Since Bolton, there has been no major attack on Russian assets in Syria assisted by the NATO recon tools. The last one was carried with Bolton in charge, and made with different drones, from a longer distance giving Russkie time to search&destroy them. They have taken down 12 drones indeed.

    correct me if i'm wrong but Aren't S-500s capable of downing satellites, Russia should down the US satellites on the grounds of them being used to help Ukraine



    GarryB wrote:

    Japan is a small island with no natural resources, even back then they had to mostly import all of their needs, this is why they invaded China etc.

    What a shock... US and UK.... western sanctions started the war in the Pacific and claims of Imperial Japan being a colonial power like the UK really was are BS.


    The British empire is the most evil Empire in history, killing over 250 million and it's the British Empire America wishes to emulate, the death rate is climbing fast and the number of wars the US has started caused is getting close

    d_taddei2 likes this post

    SeigSoloyvov
    SeigSoloyvov


    Posts : 3724
    Points : 3704
    Join date : 2016-04-08

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:25 pm

    [quote="GarryB"]

    Japan is a small island with no natural resources, even back then they had to mostly import all of their needs, this is why they invaded China etc.

    What a shock... US and UK.... western sanctions started the war in the Pacific and claims of Imperial Japan being a colonial power like the UK really was are BS.

    [quote]

    What a fing joke of a comment go learn history we did not embargo them UNTIL AFTER THEY INVADED CHINA.

    So Japan invaded and got the response we warned they would get, but its our fault lol.

    I know you are anti US but that remark was so awful and shows you will act like a child and try to turn any remark into an anti US one, grow up.

    Japan wanted to conquer territory well then it had to deal with the repercussions of doing it and to sit there and defend them, they would have cut your head off and played ball with it and laughed
    Odin of Ossetia
    Odin of Ossetia


    Posts : 886
    Points : 975
    Join date : 2015-07-03

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Odin of Ossetia Sat Sep 02, 2023 6:21 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    VARGR198 wrote:


    It is totally unrealistic.
    I don't know a single Ukrainian male who returned in the last 18 months.
    And not a single who even considers that.
    Most of them are already well established here, with jobs, places to live, and plans for the future.
    Some have already settled locally based own businesses.
    Oh sure, Zhenia, gardner, will surely close his business here and will go back to get killed. He dreams about that every single moment.
    Bogdan who is a paver and can earn 1000 euros in two days can't wait for the opportunity to be a Leopard driver either. Not sure what his girlfriend has to say about that, as she is pregnant and can't get stressed Laughing
    Siergiey who drives for DHL has a wet dreams about driving the same VAN over the minefields.
    And all the guys who left the Banderastan after 2014 have nothing better to do rather to get back and get killed for Bandera Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing




    They are not returning because they are ready to openly take over Poland, or at least a part of it.

    They are planning for Ukraine to be "compensated" with Polish land.

    You are facilitating it.


    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-Truth.html

    http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/460/land-zamosc-zamojszczyzna-1942-1944

    https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/over-100000-slaughtered-with-axes-pitchforks-scythes-and-knives-the-wolyn-massacre-started-76-years-ago-today-and-lasted-for-two-years-6714



    Them staying in Poland is absolutely nothing to smile about.

    caveat emptor
    caveat emptor


    Posts : 1782
    Points : 1782
    Join date : 2022-02-02
    Location : Murrica

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  caveat emptor Sat Sep 02, 2023 6:31 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Japan is a small island with no natural resources, even back then they had to mostly import all of their needs, this is why they invaded China etc.

    What a shock... US and UK.... western sanctions started the war in the Pacific and claims of Imperial Japan being a colonial power like the UK really was are BS.
    What the ****, Garry? There's no need to whitewash Japan's action in WW2. Japan annexed Manchuria in 1931 and invaded China in 1937. At the great cost in human lives and suffering of population. While respecting Western powers territorial claims throughout Asia.
    War started only after oil embargo in 1941.

    PapaDragon and jon_deluxe like this post

    Odin of Ossetia dislikes this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun May 26, 2024 11:38 am