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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    franco
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    Post  franco Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:51 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Re the 6x helicopter 'pilot' deaths. So possibly not shot down.

    Chunderhop
    @chunderhop
    ·
    9h
    6 pilots flying 2 helicopters?
    I'd suggest each helicopter had 1 x pilot, 1 x co-pilot and a load master or engineer.

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    .
    12h
    2 Mil Mi-8 Transport/Attack Helicopters with the 18th Army Aviation Brigade of the Ukrainian Ground Forces are reported to have Crashed earlier today along the Frontline near Bakhmut while conducting a Combat Mission, resulting in the complete Destruction of the Helicopters and Death of all 6 Pilots.

    A Criminal Investigation has been launched by the Ukrainian Security Service regarding the cause of the Crash.

    Apparently a Russian fighter was detected pale and both Ukrainian helicopters turned to attack (offical version) angry however love occurred... the end cry

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    Pincus Shain


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    Post  Pincus Shain Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:08 pm

    Kiko wrote:Zelensky demanded magic in the air from the West, 08.31.2023.

    President of Ukraine believes that 160 F-16 fighters will eliminate Russian dominance in the air.

    https://vz.ru/world/2023/8/31/1228317.html

    Surprised he isn't asking for F-15s, Typhoons, and F-35.....

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:16 pm

    Sujoy wrote:Ukraine is now going to use the land attack variant of the Neptune. This would be a major capability leap as these missiles would be impervious to radio frequency jamming and other means of RF electronic warfare and would be very hard to detect during their terminal attack stage due to their seekers being passive in nature.

    However, the missile is subsonic and can be thwarted by Russian air defence.


    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-now-using-land-attack-neptune-anti-ship-missile-variant

    None of these weapons are strategically relevant. Just propaganda relevant and a nuisance for operations. Which does suck.

    Russia has better more modern cruise missiles than the US, Iskanders, the best cheap attack drones there is and Fabs. In quantity. And all of that doesn't turn the tables at the front. So why would low quantities of lesser missiles be strategically relevant for the other side at all ?

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:30 pm

    Final toll of Pskov attack is 2 destroyed Il-76 and two damaged, but not seriously.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 5 Img_2156Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 5 Img_2157Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 5 Img_2158

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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Aug 31, 2023 11:34 pm

    Positive news of the day is that Andrey Kurshin was finally arrested. Many people will not know who this scumbag is, but it was about fucking time. To top it off, this fucker worked for defense industry and had access to state secrets while living in Moscow all this time. I really hope that person who was protecting this scum till now will also be exposed. Someone on telegram collected his "work", so anyone who is interested can check it out.

    https://t.me/HoholCalling

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:42 am

    caveat emptor wrote:Positive news of the day is that Andrey Kurshin was finally arrested. Many people will not know who this scumbag is, but it was about fucking time. To top it off, this fucker worked for defense industry and had access to state secrets while living in Moscow all this time. I really hope that person who was protecting this scum till now will also be exposed. Someone on telegram collected his "work", so anyone who is interested can check it out.

    https://t.me/HoholCalling

    I followed the link and translated it and some of the comments and still cant figure out who he is, what he did and why he was arrested.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:29 am

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:39 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:Come to think of when did we last here about HIMARS, M270, Tochka being used? Has launchers been destroyed? Ammo supply destroyed or run out? With Tochka they would struggle to obtain more ammo from elsewhere. I am waiting for Ukraine to dig out Sa-2 (use as surface to surface), and FROG-7. Questions have to be asked what's going on with supplies is Ukraine feeling like the west can't supply enough and improvising?

    Because west can't supply.
    It is enough to lurke into bore numbers.
    As I said, Poland is not buying everything in Korea because of this hardware being so fukin fantastic, but because it is out there.
    Operating M1 and L2s proved that both are simply too heavy for the theatre.
    A whole country was raised from the ruins in the 50s with all the infrastructure being of a different dimension. Bridges, stockades, tunnels - most of them are made with sub 40t class. The heavier it goes, the less infrastructure can be used for logistics.
    Poland has a program of Krab production - the biggest existing among all the NATO members. Yet we just get K9s - because those are right there. And we can't produce more Krabs than we do right now.
    Poland was making its own BM-21 version with an increased range called Feniks, 40 km. Yet we just got the Korean K239 AND some HIMARS, as that's all that is on the table.
    Poland is using hundreds of Leopards, with our own industry finally capable of making a serial PL modernization that brings that tank to a brand new level, but we have ordered M1s, AND we have just received some K2s ...
    How is that?
    Well, very easy.
    Not a single new Leopard, Abrams, Leclerc, Ariete or Challenger has been rolled out of production for more than a decade.
    The last serially produced tank in Europe was Polish PT-91M. That was almost 20 years ago!
    For 18 months of war ongoing, not a single Eurofighter has been delivered. No Pzh2k. No Leopard.
    With all the bells&whistles, US rolled out a single new F-15 after 2.5 years. And repainted a few stored M1s ...
    Same time, Russkie are pumping out the tanks, guns, and planes like there is no tomorrow. By dozens.
    Still, retaining a surplus budget!
    With no mobilization, no war regime for industry, no shortages for civil economy, with GDP clear growth.
    Arms race will bankrupt the west. Russkie learned the lesson of the Soviet Union, and reversed it.

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    Ispan
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    Post  Ispan Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:59 am

    Commentary from a long serving Spanish military officer, one of the readers of my blog, giving a professional assesment of the fighting,


    The Russians have repelled the Ukrainian attack to the south of Rabotino and to the north of Novoprokopivka, on the eastern flank they are containing, in Verbove, the Ukrainian and the attempt on the other flank, to the west, by Kopani barely 48 hours ago was a disaster for the small advanced Ukrainian units that made contact with the Russian defenders.
    This is the situation on this front at 07:30 today Friday, September 1st Spanish time.
    The fighting has been tough, many casualties and equipment losses in both contenders but the Ukrainians have taken the brunt of it in view of each other's reports.
    The fact that you have broken in at one point of the defense does not imply the successful penetration of the opponent at all, at all, it is up to the defender to neutralize it and the attacker to exploit it in depth under some requirements. The commands of each other have to think fast and act with determination in one direction and in the other, comply with the plan and, as always, adapt it to the changing reality of combat, there is no more, no less, and during this process you have to minimize your casualties and maximize those of the opposite. That is, and in old Spanish, this is a continuous "give and take" except for sporadic pauses that everyone is grateful for…
    Regarding the break of the Russian defensive line mentioned yesterday, yes but no, the Ukrainians had already broken the first line months ago, it took weeks to reach Rabotino and so many others to break the Russian defense north of Rabotino, so many others to "control" the village because Rabotino is a village without great value and south of Rabotino there is another defense line between this village and Novoprokopivka, the mess was here these past 24 hours where the Ukrainian managed to temporarily break it at several points, but from there to Tokmak there is a stretch and often a stretch, for now a defensive line denser than the previous ones mentioned and finally the main defense of Tokmak that include natural obstacles such as the Chingul River as I say natural barrier to the north of Tokmak and, in turn, this same locality is divided in two by the Tokmak River which is a tributary of the other Molochnaya River to the west of the city. The main defense of Tokmak has not been affected at all by yesterday's rupture and the panic of the pro-Russian social networks was not justified, another thing, and it is my perception of all this, is that the Russian should go thinking about a counteroffensive in this sector and drive the Ukrainians to Orikhiv.
    I am aware that for most civilians the comments that I am putting mostly tactical may get a little boring with so many names, etc, etc but if they accompany it with a plan and they are placing symbos and arrows they will be able to better assess the real progress of the conflict on the ground and judge with a critical sense everything that is said out there by the so-called pro-Ukrainians.
    Nervousness, like fear, is the property of everyone, there is little that can be done except to try to manage it as best as one can according to one's DNA, but the truth is that in the other sectors the Russian is advancing and recovering positions and lost ground and, for example, in Artemivsk fighting is taking place in Bohdanivka and this is important because for months this point was quiet under the absolute control of the Ukrainian.
    I advise you, before giving an assessment of the battle, to contrast the plans of one and the other and draw consequences without unnecessary optimism or pessimism.
    To this day, the Russian continues to literally erase the Ukrainian from the map, regardless of whether they score a goal here or there and that they are exponentially oversized by the Western media.
    Another thing and I repeat again, is that for me, seeing all this and how it is going, the Russian should as soon as possible start taking the initiative in Zaporizhia because in the rest he already has it.
    Can the Ukrainian get to Tokmak? I am not a prophet of war but in my humble opinion the maximum Ukrainian approach to Tokmak will be to the Chingul River in the best of scenarios. Entering the locality I see it as impracticable with what the Ukrainians have and seeing the Ukrainian progression, in the assumption of, it would be except capital surprise in a period of no less than 6 weeks. Along the way they would have to assume losses of men and equipment that they do not have unless they literally empty other sectors and this is counterproductive? no! the next worst thin . They have to make a new army with more mobilizations and the Western one with the USA at the head scratch their pocket and drop more of everything.


    Last edited by Ispan on Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    higurashihougi
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    Post  higurashihougi Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:50 am

    https://www.rt.com/news/582188-ukraine-abrams-tanks-september/

    Ukraine to get US Abrams tanks within weeks – Politico

    Around 200 Ukrainian soldiers have completed training on the American combat vehicles


    The first shipment of US-made M1 Abrams battle tanks is set to arrive in Ukraine in a matter of weeks, a Pentagon official told Politico, noting that 10 of the 31 tanks promised to Kiev are currently in Germany to complete refurbishments.

    With dozens of Ukrainian troops wrapping up training on the US tank, the first delivery is expected sometime in mid-September, according to an unnamed defense official and another source familiar with the discussions cited by the outlet on Thursday.

    The official added that the ten M1 Abrams tanks are now in Germany for final repairs and renovations. The Ukrainian soldiers instructed on the weapon have also trained at multiple bases in Germany, where they will remain until the tanks are ready.

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    Post  mr_hd Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:54 am

    Sujoy wrote:Ukraine is now going to use the land attack variant of the Neptune. This would be a major capability leap as these missiles would be impervious to radio frequency jamming and other means of RF electronic warfare and would be very hard to detect during their terminal attack stage due to their seekers being passive in nature.

    However, the missile is subsonic and can be thwarted by Russian air defence.


    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-now-using-land-attack-neptune-anti-ship-missile-variant

    It is known that Ukraine was working hard to re-establish production and further accelerate development of this missile. Neptune has big potential in relation to range as well as some other adaptions that could make it quite a potent weapon. However it is relatively expensive and complex to produce too - so nothing fast can happen there.

    If war is not stopped one more year Ukraine will have more own developed missiles + it will be able to massively produce them.
    They are working also on Hrim2 ballistic missile with a range of at least 500km.

    Missiles are perfect asymmetric weapons - it is enough to look at Iran and North Korea or lately even Taiwan or S. Korea.
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    Post  Belisarius Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:02 am

    Backman wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:Positive news of the day is that Andrey Kurshin was finally arrested. Many people will not know who this scumbag is, but it was about fucking time. To top it off, this fucker worked for defense industry and had access to state secrets while living in Moscow all this time. I really hope that person who was protecting this scum till now will also be exposed. Someone on telegram collected his "work", so anyone who is interested can check it out.

    https://t.me/HoholCalling

    I followed the link and translated it and some of the comments and still cant figure out who he is, what he did and why he was arrested.

    🇷🇺 In Moscow, the administrator of the Telegram channel "Moscow Calling," Andrey Kurshin, has been arrested. He faces up to 10 years in prison for false posts about the Russian army.

    According to SHOT, Kurshin regularly posted messages on Telegram discrediting the Russian Armed Forces, the country's government, expressing joy over attacks by the Ukrainian Armed Forces on Russian cities and the army, and also insulting war correspondents and bloggers who actively cover the situation.

    Kurshin works as an engineer at the "Rif" Scientific Production Association, which develops software for weaponry, and holds a security clearance. As reported by a source, Kurshin spends a significant portion of his earnings on mistresses, with whom he even tries to start a family. However, when his advances are rejected, he resorts to threatening the women and demanding back the money he gave them.

    Kurshin was apprehended at Leningradsky Railway Station in Moscow. A case has been filed against him under the charge of "Public dissemination of knowingly false information about the use of the Russian Armed Forces."

    https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/79241

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:05 am

    mr_troll wrote:

    If war is not stopped one more year Ukraine will have more own developed missiles + it will be able to massively produce them.
    They are working also on Hrim2 ballistic missile with a range of at least 500km.

    It will be very hard (most probably impossible) to "massively produce" anything - let alone missiles.
    Note: That is why they are begging for foreign weapons - just in case you haven't noticed... Rolling Eyes

    The Grom-2 missile was used on 2 occasions - if I remember correctly - and both attempts were intercepted. Nothing since then... Rolling Eyes
    Note: The Grom-2 is based on the Iskander - which has been virtually impossible for the hohols to intercept Neutral

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    Post  mr_hd Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:21 am

    Mir wrote:
    mr_troll wrote:

    If war is not stopped one more year Ukraine will have more own developed missiles + it will be able to massively produce them.
    They are working also on Hrim2 ballistic missile with a range of at least 500km.

    It will be very hard (most probably impossible) to "massively produce" anything - let alone missiles.
    Note: That is why they are begging for foreign weapons - just in case you haven't noticed... Rolling Eyes
    ...  
    Actually there are plenty of information that Ukraine now has established some kind of military production like ammunition's in almost any town across the country. I am talking about thousand of sites.
    They are doing the same for UAVs, there are reports that sometime they are using small makeshift buildings in the middle of small villages too - in order to spread and diversify supply and make it impossible that production is suppressed by long range attacks.

    They are starting to produce they own howitzer too.

    There are more then enough signs that they are increasing own production of various equipment.

    And for strategic programs they built underground facilities - weapons like missiles that are strategic for them would not be built in any normal building that can be easily bombed.

    Having own weapons make sense since they do not fall under any Wester restrictions. Additionally Russian weapons are perfectly built to match and neutralize western ones. So bringing new models that are hybrid is actually sometimes more effective then to have very expensive and sophisticated western models that are expensive and complex to operate and nightmare for maintenance and not effective at the end.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:45 am

    ... and literally, as we speak about the western production cap, here it is :

    In August, British factories faced their most challenging month since the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. This struggle was attributed to a significant decline in orders, driven by increased interest rates both domestically and internationally.

    According to a survey conducted on Friday, the S&P Global/CIPS UK manufacturing Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI) recorded its sixth consecutive decline, dropping to 43.0 from July's 45.3. This marked the lowest PMI reading in 39 months, though it slightly surpassed the provisional August estimate of 42.5.


    I can bet that PMI for the German industry will look just the same encouraging ...

    Oh yeah baby, outproducing Russkie goes at a full swing!

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    Post  Mir Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:53 am

    mr_troll wrote:
    Actually there are plenty of information that Ukraine now has established some kind of military production like ammunition's in almost any town across the country. I am talking about thousand of sites.

    I guess I forgot about reloading 5.45×39mm at home Shocked

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    Post  Pincus Shain Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:14 pm

    higurashihougi wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/582188-ukraine-abrams-tanks-september/

    Ukraine to get US Abrams tanks within weeks – Politico

    Around 200 Ukrainian soldiers have completed training on the American combat vehicles


    The first shipment of US-made M1 Abrams battle tanks is set to arrive in Ukraine in a matter of weeks, a Pentagon official told Politico, noting that 10 of the 31 tanks promised to Kiev are currently in Germany to complete refurbishments.

    With dozens of Ukrainian troops wrapping up training on the US tank, the first delivery is expected sometime in mid-September, according to an unnamed defense official and another source familiar with the discussions cited by the outlet on Thursday.

    The official added that the ten M1 Abrams tanks are now in Germany for final repairs and renovations. The Ukrainian soldiers instructed on the weapon have also trained at multiple bases in Germany, where they will remain until the tanks are ready.

    31 refurbished Tanks? OMG, they will be inside the Kremlin within days..... They lost more than that this week alone and its only Friday....

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    Post  Pincus Shain Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:16 pm

    Belisarius wrote:
    Backman wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:Positive news of the day is that Andrey Kurshin was finally arrested. Many people will not know who this scumbag is, but it was about fucking time. To top it off, this fucker worked for defense industry and had access to state secrets while living in Moscow all this time. I really hope that person who was protecting this scum till now will also be exposed. Someone on telegram collected his "work", so anyone who is interested can check it out.

    https://t.me/HoholCalling

    I followed the link and translated it and some of the comments and still cant figure out who he is, what he did and why he was arrested.

    🇷🇺 In Moscow, the administrator of the Telegram channel "Moscow Calling," Andrey Kurshin, has been arrested. He faces up to 10 years in prison for false posts about the Russian army.

    According to SHOT, Kurshin regularly posted messages on Telegram discrediting the Russian Armed Forces, the country's government, expressing joy over attacks by the Ukrainian Armed Forces on Russian cities and the army, and also insulting war correspondents and bloggers who actively cover the situation.

    Kurshin works as an engineer at the "Rif" Scientific Production Association, which develops software for weaponry, and holds a security clearance. As reported by a source, Kurshin spends a significant portion of his earnings on mistresses, with whom he even tries to start a family. However, when his advances are rejected, he resorts to threatening the women and demanding back the money he gave them.

    Kurshin was apprehended at Leningradsky Railway Station in Moscow. A case has been filed against him under the charge of "Public dissemination of knowingly false information about the use of the Russian Armed Forces."

    https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/79241

    Likely a paid stooge. If he's literally having to pay for love, then he's always gonna be broke and probably doing this sort of crap as a paid nazi stooge.

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    Post  bandit6 Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:59 pm

    Why does Ukraine still have a functioning electric grid??? The whole country should have been de-energised by now
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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:34 pm

    The first major player to exit to safety stage left, clutching his pile of cash and properties.

    Nah, the scapegoat as to why the amazing offensive they were promising months in advance failed so miserably... the alternative would be to blame Zelensky or to blame the HATO countries for not supplying enough weapons quickly enough and neither of those is acceptable.

    Ukraine is now going to use the land attack variant of the Neptune. This would be a major capability leap as these missiles would be impervious to radio frequency jamming and other means of RF electronic warfare and would be very hard to detect during their terminal attack stage due to their seekers being passive in nature.

    However, the missile is subsonic and can be thwarted by Russian air defence.

    Not really much different from a Storm Shadow, except probably less range and less stealthy.

    Meanwhile, the arrogance and stupidity of the US continues as they try to pass the blame to their patsy.

    Yeah, but you gotta remember that the Soviet Union was in Afghanistan for about ten years from the end of 1979 until about 1988 wasn't it, but if it was the US and HATO planning it they would have only been there four or five years and left with everything perfect... you know... like they did... and it was so cheap, everyone talks about it.

    Ironically they would have suffered less casualties because they would have run away when they started taking losses.

    or the Ukrainians simply don't listen to orders," he emphasizes.

    So HATO and the US are directly involved in this conflict like they keep denying publicly... we knew that, but it is good to hear them admit it...

    Wonder how long therefore that they admit to all the war crimes and failures against drunk Russian soldiers.

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    Worked fine for me.... Russian guy in a trench throws a hand grenade which hits the tree in front of him and comes straight back at him... he palms it away and takes cover and swears a bit at himself for being so stupid.

    Come to think of when did we last here about HIMARS, M270, Tochka being used? Has launchers been destroyed? Ammo supply destroyed or run out? With Tochka they would struggle to obtain more ammo from elsewhere. I am waiting for Ukraine to dig out Sa-2 (use as surface to surface), and FROG-7. Questions have to be asked what's going on with supplies is Ukraine feeling like the west can't supply enough and improvising?

    Another factor is that in desperate situations sometimes stocks are looted for other things like rocket fuel or HE from warheads are taken for other things... ironic that they didn't have parts and missiles for Tunguska vehicles and burned a whole lot together to pretend it was a Ukrainian victory destroying Russian vehicles... even just with 30mm ammo those vehicles would have been very useful against drones and cruise missile attacks, but instead they waste them for a PR move that nobody believed anyway.

    Surprised he isn't asking for F-15s, Typhoons, and F-35.....

    When the F-16s fail, it will be because there was not enough and not fast enough and they were not Rafales and Typhoons and F-35s...

    Likely a paid stooge. If he's literally having to pay for love, then he's always gonna be broke and probably doing this sort of crap as a paid nazi stooge.

    Appealing to a western audience gets you moneterised and it also allows other western intel services to use you as a source which adds credibility to their bullshit if they can claim a source inside Russia for their crap stories....

    He probably did work for western think tanks or was hoping to cash in on the billions they get every year for their crap too.

    Why does Ukraine still have a functioning electric grid??? The whole country should have been de-energised by now

    There is lots of redundancy and destroying it all at once is not as easy as it sounds, but also there is plenty of time left in this game so why escalate too quickly... saving that for something  more important perhaps.

    I am going to skip through the last few pages and extract the drone comments and move them to an anti drone thread. Any anti drone comments please hold till you know where to post them please.


    Anti drone discussion moved to https://www.russiadefence.net/t7159p250-russian-defence-against-drone-swarms

    (starts near the bottom of page 11).


    Last edited by GarryB on Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:52 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Post  Isos Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:43 pm

    bandit6 wrote:Why does Ukraine still have a functioning electric grid??? The whole country should have been de-energised by now

    Agree. Where are the gerans ? They should be hitting all day long the power grid as well as internet nodes.

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    Post  GarryB Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:51 pm

    Taking down all electricity would be counter productive at this point... they don't want to depopulate, they want to destroy the army like they destroyed the airforce and the navy.

    Hitting fuel dumps and ammo dumps and arms depots is rather more productive work for the Gerans than turning the lights out.

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    Post  kvs Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:18 pm

    Exactly, Russia is trying to minimize civilian losses and misery. Taking out the Ukr electrical grid is not going to change much at the
    front. They would have to bomb every road and seed vast tracts of territory with mines to shut off Ukr munitions flows. Has anyone
    ever heard of a full shut-off of logistics tactic being applied in major wars? More arm chair general "planning".

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    Post  Godric Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:06 pm

    Pincus Shain wrote:
    higurashihougi wrote:https://www.rt.com/news/582188-ukraine-abrams-tanks-september/

    Ukraine to get US Abrams tanks within weeks – Politico

    Around 200 Ukrainian soldiers have completed training on the American combat vehicles


    The first shipment of US-made M1 Abrams battle tanks is set to arrive in Ukraine in a matter of weeks, a Pentagon official told Politico, noting that 10 of the 31 tanks promised to Kiev are currently in Germany to complete refurbishments.

    With dozens of Ukrainian troops wrapping up training on the US tank, the first delivery is expected sometime in mid-September, according to an unnamed defense official and another source familiar with the discussions cited by the outlet on Thursday.

    The official added that the ten M1 Abrams tanks are now in Germany for final repairs and renovations. The Ukrainian soldiers instructed on the weapon have also trained at multiple bases in Germany, where they will remain until the tanks are ready.

    31 refurbished Tanks? OMG, they will be inside the Kremlin within days..... They lost more than that this week alone and its only Friday....

    refurbished as in most of there technology is removed in case of inevitable capture by the Russian Army

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    Post  mnztr Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:43 pm

    kvs wrote:Exactly, Russia is trying to minimize civilian losses and misery.   Taking out the Ukr electrical grid is not going to change much at the
    front.   They would have to bomb every road and seed vast tracts of territory with mines to shut off Ukr munitions flows.   Has anyone
    ever heard of a full shut-off of logistics tactic being applied in major wars?   More arm chair general "planning".


    yes it worked with Germany and Japan in WWII. They created a massive fuel shortage. Why do you think Japan sent the Yamato, a 80K ton battleship on a suicide mission with half tanks?

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