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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Backman
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    Post  Backman Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:27 am

    mnztr wrote:
    Backman wrote:ATACMr.

    Doesn't storm shadow have a longer range anyway?

    I don't know, maybe. But another series of missile just inevitably means a new stock will be available and some will inevitably get through. And we have this annoying fucking cycle where the US ups the ante, gets some propaganda cheap-shots in, gets the western public intoxicated again, and Russia basically does no obvious retaliation.
    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:11 am

    Backman wrote:I don't know, maybe. But another series of missile just inevitably means a new stock will be available and some will inevitably get through. And we have this annoying fucking cycle where the US ups the ante, gets some propaganda cheap-shots in, gets the western public intoxicated again, and Russia basically does no obvious retaliation.

    What are you talking about?
    You give this wunderwaffen more attention than it's worth.
    They've run out of Storm Shadows and whatever else and also want to test out yet another roughly equivalent weapons system so they're sending it.

    There can be no surprise here for Russia, nor should it distract anyone from getting the job done and pulverizing all Nazi and NATO presence on the territory of the would-be Ukrainian state. You can't take some special measures against it because what the enemy is doing here is just waging war. So you wage war back.
    As for how the US uses this deployment in their state propaganda among its own people - who the hell cares.

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:39 am

    Backman wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    Backman wrote:ATACMr.

    Doesn't storm shadow have a longer range anyway?

    I don't know, maybe. But another series of missile just inevitably means a new stock will be available and some will inevitably get through. And we have this annoying fucking cycle where the US ups the ante, gets some propaganda cheap-shots in, gets the western public intoxicated again, and Russia basically does no obvious retaliation.

    The real reason the US gave them ATACMS is probably because the Russians have hacked the guidance system on the std missile and I guess they wanna see if the also need to deal with this one and what radius the jamming is effective.
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    Post  ALAMO Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:57 am

    ATACSM is a purely ballistic missile with a relatively small terminal speed.
    Much less complicated target than cruise Storm Shadow or Scalp or Taurus.
    It will be easy prey for Russian missiles.
    But let the new hype take some weight, will be fun watching it falling down the sky.

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    Post  Arrow Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:22 am

    R 500

    https://m.vk.com/video-206639135_456274866

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:34 am

    ALAMO wrote:ATACSM is a purely ballistic missile with a relatively small terminal speed.
    Much less complicated target than cruise Storm Shadow or Scalp or Taurus.
    It will be easy prey for Russian missiles.
    But let the new hype take some weight, will be fun watching it falling down the sky.

    That is the real problem for the US. Do they really want to destroy its reputation as an effective weapon? Not that it actually has one against a proper enemy.

    Hence adding it to the growing pile of products that potential customers will turn their noses up at.

    In Ukraine it, the Abrams and the F-16 are working better as a carrot on a stick.

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    Post  SolidarityWithRussia Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:13 am

    Here is a bold claim from German propaganda that gave me a good laugh.
    https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ukraine-liveticker-experte-erfolgschance-der-ukrainer-bei-40-bis-50-prozent-faz-19030454.html

    So there is a handpicked "expert" who claims that the chance of a Ukrainian breaktrough is 40-50%. Probably that number is meant to create more false hope in the population, but when Ukraine's defeat will become evident in the near future, the fake media can explain this simply with bad luck. That is how Western war propaganda is trying to keep its credibility despite being terribly wrong so many times.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:01 am

    They use expensive cruise and ballistic missiles for this purpose.

    Russian cruise and ballistic missiles are a fraction of the price of western equivalents, and often the use of a missile to precisely hit a target is actually cheaper than flying dozens of aircraft to attack the same target while also protecting the aircraft delivering the payload to take out the target.

    The point is that here there is often an erroneous statement that VKS has achieved air superiority over Ukraine, which is not true. Only in the frontline zone.

    The west gains air superiority in most of the places it operates but still loses aircraft.

    Air superiority does not mean what you think it means. Air superiority means your airpower has the advantage and can control regions at a time while denying enemy air power access to most territory.

    You confuse Air Superiority with Air Supremacy where you rule the air and the enemy air power can do nothing... which is essentially what the Russians have in the Ukraine... but even that does not mean they can fly as they please without fear from ground fire.

    so T-90m is less perspective than T-80 ?

    They say they are restarting T80 tank production, not that they are stopping T-90AM production.

    They are saying the T-80 is good, not that everything else is bad.

    The T-80 and T-90 are like MiG and Sukhoi... to some they look the same, but essentially are different with different components and different suppliers so starting production of T-80s means different engines and different parts and components will go into production without putting more strain on the companies already making T-90s and upgrading T-72s.

    - well in short T-80 seems to have better potential then T-90 otherwise why military would require restarting production? Omsk as originally manufacturing T-80, now has been upgrading for a while. Let me guess where production restart will go to...

    Using that logic the upgraded T-62s they sent into theatre are better than T-90 as well?

    They likely have the potential to put T-80s back into production and the suppliers and subcontractors are probably not busy making stuff for other vehicles except probably T-80 upgrades so it will be good for those companies to start serial production for new and upgraded vehicles.

    but the question is why? Armata is better anyway then both T-90 and T-80 ... you need skilled workers and production capabilities interesting problem. "Alyosha" effect?

    If you put T-14s into service then you have to put T-16s into service as well because you need a T-16 recovery vehicle to recover a T-14 tank because existing tank recovery vehicles are designed for T-90s and T-80s which are lighter than T-14s.

    The question also would be how much more useful would a T-14 be in this sort of combat without all the other equivalent systems it would communicate with using its advanced comms and net centric capabilities with.

    A bit like sending Coalition to battle but only using 27km range HE shells with it...

    It is not ready yet and they have tested it and will make changes and adaptations to further improve it based on experience in the field.

    I will only remind you, that the Russian army was cut down to only some 1.1 mln, and were seriously considering going under 1mln.
    High-end Armata platform was one of the examples, but not only.

    While I agree with what you said the plan was never for the Russian Army to have the T-14 as its MBT for across the board every unit. They have five vehicle families... Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang, Typhoon, and DT-30, and each will have a vehicle with a T-14 turret that it will use as a tank or gun platform. so they wont be needing 20,000 T-14s.

    1) T-80 wont start immediately you need some years to restart

    That is true but it means in the future those T-80s will go into storage or units where the gas turbine is the best option... ie navy and also arctic units because of teh GT loves cold weather and also navy fuel options.

    3) which you may agree or disagree with. The offense is the best defense.

    Offense is the best defence when it means you are doing lots of damage to the enemy while minimising your own losses and being too mobile to pin down.

    The orcs are losing heavily with their offenses and the Russians are dealing to them from positions of relative safety.

    Kiev is attacking because they have no other option... they know the end is near and have to score a win to take to the negotiating table to trade for something and to keep the donations from the west coming... but it isn't working.

    They know if they try to hunker down the Russians will just smash them and winkle them out of every crevice and gap.

    ATACMS are being delivered now and Russia just does nothing. Generals will be killed. A whole new round of propaganda stories that will intoxicate western retards for the next 6 months. 230 kilogram warheads. JFC.

    ATACMS is no better than Tochka which the Russians will shoot down... they will try against military targets and when they get shot down they will start hitting civilian targets that are not as well defended... like they have with drones and M777s and their other shit.

    Blinken added that the terms and future borders would depend on Ukraine's views.

    So they are not ready for talks yet.

    There is going to be a flurry of missile attacks on Russian assets. Most likely in the Black sea and Crimea. This is why they are shilling about negotiations now. They really think they can attack Russia into negotiations. Then a year from now, it will be Tomohawks I guess.

    Ignore the hype... these new wonder weapons will be just as useless as the wonder weapons of the past... just more expensive.

    So perhaps not a HARM after all.

    Which is worse because it means it was a deliberate warcrime...

    Sorry to say so, but Mercouris is utterly wrong when he states that the Yanqui ATACMS missiles will be aimed at the Kerch bridge. They'll be ultimately and cowardly aimed at targets among the Russian civilian population, as they've always have done so.

    The bridge is too well defended, they simply wouldn't get through.

    Doesn't storm shadow have a longer range anyway?

    Yes, but it costs them a plane to launch them...

    And we have this annoying fucking cycle where the US ups the ante, gets some propaganda cheap-shots in, gets the western public intoxicated again, and Russia basically does no obvious retaliation.

    And hundreds of Ukrainian troops die every day on the battlefield... which is all that matters.

    Probably that number is meant to create more false hope in the population, but when Ukraine's defeat will become evident in the near future, the fake media can explain this simply with bad luck. That is how Western war propaganda is trying to keep its credibility despite being terribly wrong so many times.

    When the Ukrainian military collapses the west will say they provided them with everything and it was just not good enough... these Ukrainians didn't fight the HATO way and so they lost...

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:41 am

    The US sending ATACMS?

    Sounds like they are having second thoughts about sending Abrams tanks...

    https://sputnikglobe.com/20230910/as-russia-easily-destroys-western-armored-vehicles-in-ukraine-us-doubts-its-effectiveness---report--1113244261.html

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:22 am

    American arms dealer Mark Morales makes millions by supplying arms to Ukraine through Ukrainian Army Staff Sergeant Vladimir Koifman, a Ukrainian-American who is paid to arrange meetings with his government contacts. This is stated in an investigation published by The New York Times.

    Last month, six men met in the penthouse bar of one of Kyiv's most luxurious hotels to discuss the lucrative business of arming Ukrainian troops, the newspaper reported, citing two people present at the meeting. Morales, Koyfman, as well as Ukrainian military and officials were there.

    As the publication notes, this meeting made it possible to show a hidden aspect of the military strategy of the Joe Biden administration.

    The US has given Ukraine more than $40 billion in security assistance, including advanced weapons. But the Pentagon also relies heavily on little-known arms dealers like Morales, who have the connections needed to source mostly low-grade or Soviet-caliber ammunition from around the world. They work in the shadow arms trade.

    Morales is one of the most important suppliers for Ukraine. The Pentagon has awarded his company Global Ordnance contracts worth about $1 billion, primarily for the supply of ammunition. And he built an additional $200 million business selling weapons directly to Ukrainians, records show.

    However, Morales' company is under investigation by Ukrainian anti-corruption authorities in connection with the deal, which officials called a failure. At the same time, in the United States in 2009, Morales was charged with conspiracy and money laundering after, according to him, he was featured in a recording where he discussed methods of paying bribes to foreign officials. Prosecutors eventually dropped the charges against him.

    Sergeant Koyfman, a Ukrainian-American who has many years of experience as an advisor to the Ukrainian National Guard, entered wartime service in Ukraine. He told The Times that he is a senior sergeant in the Ukrainian territorial defense forces, where he leads and trains soldiers.

    Koyfman is the key person to contact on weapons issues, one official said.

    It is noted that Morales also hired Denis Vanash, whom the NYT calls a longtime adviser to the Secretary of Defense.

    Morales' rivals said he had an unfair advantage, not because of his ties to Koyfman or Vanash, but because of his ties to the Pentagon. As two of Morales' competitors said, on several occasions at the beginning of the war he outbid competitors for the purchase of shells from Bulgarian arms factories.

    He transported missiles, shells, grenades and armored vehicles from Bulgaria, Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan to Ukraine, according to government documents and interviews with arms dealers and officials. And he is far from the only arms dealer with connections to the Ukrainian government.

    At the same time, the material says, the consequence of huge purchases in Ukraine was competition between state-owned firms and private dealers. This caused prices to rise, causing Ukraine to lose money. When the government buys weapons from state-owned companies, it benefits from the deal. When it buys from private sellers, the profit goes to the brokers.

    One example is that at the beginning of a full-scale war, the state-owned company Ukrinmash entered into a deal with an Egyptian seller worth about $65 million to purchase almost 200 armored vehicles. Then the deal stalled. Shortly thereafter, Morales entered into a contract to supply similar machines at similar prices. The difference was that Global Ordnance would profit, not the state-owned company.

    Subsequently, problems began. According to Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Gavrilov, the vehicles arrived improperly equipped, and anti-corruption authorities began investigating the deal.

    https://t.me/MediaKiller2021/9422

    Corruption in blood, or how the highest echelons of power earned billions...

    Soon the most interesting things will begin to emerge regarding the purchases of weapons by the Office of the President through gray schemes from international “shadow” arms dealers.

    This case was completely supervised by the Head of the OP Ermak, the amounts involved were in the billions. For lobbying for the necessary contracts, Ermak and his entourage received kickbacks of 25-35% of the amount. And prices were 2/3 times higher than market prices, although mostly decommissioned junk and used equipment were purchased.

    Let them tell how they bought decommissioned S-300 air defense missiles, which then flew into residential buildings of Ukrainians, and the authorities, in order to hide negligence and corruption, blamed it on the Russians.

    The OP and the team pulled off an interesting scheme involving the purchase of used equipment from Egypt. The article briefly described the situation, emphasizing that the money went to brokers, and state-owned companies often began to lose deals. So, a Ukrainian defense enterprise received this “Egyptian order,” but the decision makers went to a “warm country” and agreed with officials to delay the transfer of weapons and the contract was disrupted. Then this contract was given to the right company, which miraculously delivered everything very quickly, receiving an awesome jackpot.

    We are waiting for information to emerge about how Bankova transferred Javelin, NLAW, MANPADS, and other interesting Western toys to “shadow dealers.” Ukraine in 2022 was a black hole filled with dirty money.

    While people fell for propaganda and went to die, big men in suits made money so that they could then vacation in warm countries with millions in their accounts.


    https://t.me/legitimniy/16229

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:43 am

    JohninMK wrote:

    That is the real problem for the US. Do they really want to destroy its reputation as an effective weapon? Not that it actually has one against a proper enemy.

    Hence adding it to the growing pile of products that potential customers will turn their noses up at.

    In Ukraine it, the Abrams and the F-16 are working better as a carrot on a stick.

    It is irrelevant.
    Murican arms is being purchased by vassal states and as bribes paid to the hegemon to make him pleased and accept something.
    Those countries will keep paying bribes as usual, including the ridiculous situation existing in Poland, where a tank zoo has been created.

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    SolidarityWithRussia


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    Post  SolidarityWithRussia Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:14 pm

    Maybe this has been discussed here already, but what will Nato do, when they finally run out of ammunition? Are they going to secretly change subject and let Ukraine down, or are they dumb enough to give Ukraine low-yield nuclear weapons?

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:51 pm

    Backman wrote:ATACMS are being delivered now and Russia just does nothing. Generals will be killed. A whole new round of propaganda stories that will intoxicate western retards for the next 6 months. 230 kilogram warheads. JFC. ...

    Remember cluster shells they sent?

    Now Ukrainians are getting hit with even bigger cluster rockets and are getting white phosphorous shower as a bonus with each package

    Keep em coming, party all the way


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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:53 pm

    Kiko wrote:The United States announced Ukraine's readiness for negotiations with Russia, 09.10.2023.

    US Secretary of State Blinken: Ukraine is ready for negotiations with Russia.

    Ukraine is ready for negotiations with Russia, but the conditions and future borders will depend on the opinion of Kyiv, US Secretary of State Blinken said. Russia ruled out the withdrawal of troops to the 1991 borders and called for recognizing “realities on the ground”.
    ....

    This is a clear sign of weakness

    Now it's time to hit them even harder and longer, no stopping


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    Post  flamming_python Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:53 pm

    ALAMO wrote:A funny thing : Alyosha is not the name of this particular tank, but a code call for any tank.
    As the side hero of the whole situation was the recon guy who was commenting on the whole action, he was using this code name multiple times. Looks like it settled well into the overall propaganda spin.

    By the way, if you have some free time, take a look at the whole action, again Twisted Evil
    "Alyosha tank" is a propaganda spin.
    Ukro tanks were destroyed on minefield, some were hit by ATGMs, and there was even AGS and SPG9 fire involved in the event.
    The sole clear hit the tank crew made, was against an already wrecked MRAP (?) standing on the right forward from the scene.
    The entire Ukro squad was annihilated indeed but by combined arms.
    Tank crew did a heroic job indeed, returning to the battlefield multiple times, but it was clearly not "rearming" as it took way too short of time. Maybe they needed to handle a loader malfunction or something, IDK dunno
    Anyway, a funny thing to watch, especially with a non censored comments from the recon guy Laughing who visited Putin, too. And was told to continue career as a sports commentator Laughing Laughing Laughing  

    Quiet already

    To say nothing about the museum exhibition - you're ruining the future book sales, and the film.
    Which will be a Russian version of the Hollywood blockbuster - Fury.
    What? You're telling me there already was a Russian movie copying Fury? Well make another!


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:56 pm

    SolidarityWithRussia wrote:Maybe this has been discussed here already, but what will Nato do, when they finally run out of ammunition? Are they going to secretly change subject and let Ukraine down, or are they dumb enough to give Ukraine low-yield nuclear weapons?

    I don't think they'll run out of ammunition but they are running out of military equipment. At least from what we can see; I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't have plans in motion.

    As for what they'll do - they'll escalate.
    Because they've put their entire little empire on the line in the Ukraine. Everything banking on this war. If Russia wins and wins there decisively; they're done and all around the world.

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    Post  higurashihougi Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:58 pm

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/CxDbdtdoieP/?fbclid=IwAR16giYKORouvZqms1cBcW--gQkZaV9zLivnQ7b2muC2c0KDCV0ptgptTsU

    Four Russian paratroopers descended on a Ukrainian dugout. The odds were even – four Russian soldiers, four Ukrainian soldiers. Plot twist: there weren’t four Ukrainian soldiers. As this drone footage circulating on social media apparently shows, the four Russian soldiers ordered the Ukrainians out one by one, and they just kept coming. All eleven of them.

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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:24 pm

    Godric wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    And where the **** were they from 2014-2022?

    They were contributing troops to the Ukrainian junta army shelling the Donbass, that's where. Anyone with balls I mean. There may well have been people sympathetic to Russia, but none of them did anything then, so why would they find the courage now?

    i'm pretty sure there were partisan attacks in Zaporozhye oblast circa 2014/15 targeting rail and bridges in the region, maybe they got fed up waiting for the cavalry to come

    on another note Ukraine is demanding a tribunal to convict, Vladimir Putin, Sergey Lavarov Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and others, the first 3 names are to receive immunity according to the west which is enraging Ukraine, what needs to be pointed out to these fools, they are not living in the real world, the West & Ukraine ... if anyone should be in the dock , it should be Biden, O'Bampot, Merkel, Hollande, Macron, Scholtz, Nuland, Numerous Ukrainian Politicians, Boris Johnson and several other UK leaders

    https://www.rt.com/russia/582719-west-deadlocked-russia-ukraine-tribunal/



    Indeed there was a low level partisan activity in the Ukrainian-occupied New Russia and New Serbia (Budziaki and Yedisan) regions, but Putin decided to instead host the World Cup of Football.

    Also, in the city of Harkov, at least some sabotage was conducted; today the city is a major Ukrainian defensive stronghold. There was carelessness on the part of the resistance members in the Harkov area, as in bragging about their activities.

    Eight years is plenty of time to deal with the resistance movement.


    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-GL42.html



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    Post  mr_hd Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:53 pm

    today was good day for Ukraine, it reported moderate advancing in Opytne village near Avdivka, then further south in the direction toward Novomairoke village. Then they claim to have destroyed a couple of Russian river boats in Kherson region. Then they claim to have been gained back gas platforms in Black Sea with special forces. They got a lot of equipment like rockets for helicopters as well as radar that can track ships on the sea. If true this would be huge thing since those platforms cover quite a large sea surface...and are not far away from Crimea...there are clips on the internet.

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    Post  mnztr Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:55 pm

    mr_hd wrote:today was good day for Ukraine, it reported moderate advancing in Opytne village near Avdivka, then further south in the direction toward Novomairoke village. Then they claim to have destroyed a couple of Russian river boats in Kherson region. Then they claim to have been gained back gas platforms in Black Sea with special forces. They got a lot of equipment like rockets for helicopters as well as radar that can track ships on the sea. If true this would be huge thing since those platforms cover quite a large sea surface...and are not far away from Crimea...there are clips on the internet.

    How will they resupply?
    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:17 pm

    Poland buying 500 HIMARS, yet it is quite obvious at this point they will get involved later, any update on tornado, armata, t,-90m numbers would be great. 1000k-2 tanks are not problem but the 250 m1a2 sepv3s will be the problem. Since the armor protection got boosted and these tanks will have Trophy APS systems to deal with ATGM and RPGs and updates on Hermes on how close it will hit production would be useful right now since the speed is enough for trophy projectile reaction time not to work.
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    Post  ucmvulcan Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:03 pm

    mnztr wrote:
    mr_hd wrote:today was good day for Ukraine, it reported moderate advancing in Opytne village near Avdivka, then further south in the direction toward Novomairoke village. Then they claim to have destroyed a couple of Russian river boats in Kherson region. Then they claim to have been gained back gas platforms in Black Sea with special forces. They got a lot of equipment like rockets for helicopters as well as radar that can track ships on the sea. If true this would be huge thing since those platforms cover quite a large sea surface...and are not far away from Crimea...there are clips on the internet.

    How will they resupply?

    Because NATO has some new wonderweapon and supply system that costs more than Russia's GDP.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 22 Dr-pau10


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    Post  sepheronx Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:32 pm

    thegopnik wrote:Poland buying 500 HIMARS, yet it is quite obvious at this point they will get involved later, any update on tornado, armata, t,-90m numbers would be great. 1000k-2 tanks are not problem but the 250 m1a2 sepv3s will be the problem. Since the armor protection got boosted and these tanks will have Trophy APS systems to deal with ATGM and RPGs and updates on Hermes on how close it will hit production would be useful right now since the speed is enough for trophy projectile reaction time not to work.

    And where will Poland get the people to man such equipment and the money to get such equipment?

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    Post  Airbornewolf Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:14 pm

    (English subbed) Russian war reporter's documentary about the soldiers on the frontlines



    thanks to an subscriber, i now have the ability to auto-translate and generate subtitles.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

    Post  GunshipDemocracy Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:19 pm

    mr_hd wrote:today was good day for Ukraine, it reported moderate advancing in Opytne village near Avdivka, then further south in the direction toward Novomairoke village. Then they claim to have destroyed a couple of Russian river boats in Kherson region. Then they claim to have been gained back gas platforms in Black Sea with special forces.

    do you mean this same recycled vid right before 4 boats were sunken by RuAF? or the most recent with only 3 boats and 36 commando? meh the recent boats were blown just by Snake island thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup





    They got a lot of equipment like rockets for helicopters as well as radar that can track ships on the sea. If true this would be huge thing since those platforms cover quite a large sea surface...and are not far away from Crimea...there are clips on the internet.

    vids on interment you say ?

    Russians capturing ukro positions after failed Zergling rush counterattack
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48 - Page 22 600px-TvZ

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