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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Fri May 26, 2023 7:43 pm

    That drone cost too much to be a good investement. And works only in peace time. In war time it's an easy target for any fighter jet or air defence system.

    Not a good investement.

    Best is invest in more su-35 and produce more anti ship missiles. If you destroy enemy ships and fighters there is no reason yo monitor the sea anymore.

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri May 26, 2023 7:55 pm

    Isos wrote:That drone cost too much to be a good investement. And works only in peace time. In war time it's an easy target for any fighter jet or air defence system.
    Not a good investement.
    Best is invest in more su-35 and produce more anti ship missiles. If you destroy enemy ships and fighters there is no reason yo monitor the sea anymore.

    The French MOD needs your expertise! Laughing

    A drone is probably one of the most cost effective things for your buck today. It can replace sooo many manned hardware today at a fraction of the total cost. It can even replace the Su-35 and the anti-ship missile you mentioned Shocked

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    Post  Godric Fri May 26, 2023 8:26 pm

    UK media are claiming there is a revolution underway in Russia to over throw President Putin, they are the only media claiming this

    Sky News among others have had to take their videos down they posted earlier ... absolutely embarrassing stuff

    as i've said before when it comes to propaganda the UK/London based media is hard to beat

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    Post  Isos Fri May 26, 2023 9:11 pm

    Mir wrote:
    The French MOD needs your expertise! Laughing

    A drone is probably one of the most cost effective things for your buck today. It can replace sooo many manned hardware today at a fraction of the total cost. It can even replace the Su-35 and the anti-ship missile you mentioned Shocked

    Lancet, Geran 2, Orion, tb2... yes. Because they can be guided from the ground with a radio link and cost like a car thanks to their very low end quality with engines similar to what was done in WW2 and electronics very similar to civilian toys and drones.

    This mq-4 with a jet engine and satelitte datalink certainly not. It costs 130 million $. Any such drone will hit the price of at least a trainer jet aircraft because it is actually a real aircraft with just not the seat for the pilot. And when facing an enemy fighter or AD system it will be a dumb target easy to shoot down.

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    Post  kvs Fri May 26, 2023 9:40 pm

    Godric wrote:UK media are claiming there is a revolution underway in Russia to over throw President Putin, they are the only media claiming this

    Sky News among others have had to take their videos down they posted earlier ... absolutely embarrassing stuff

    as i've said before when it comes to propaganda the UK/London based media is hard to beat  


    Prigozhin must be NATzO's messiah. He is the only moron yammering about revolution. Someone needs to stuff some eclairs into his trap to shut him up.

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    Post  Mir Fri May 26, 2023 9:44 pm

    It's actually U$200+ for the Global Hawk Laughing

    Comparing American "money" with Russian buying power is senseless but as you've said the Russians and the rest of the world can produce these things at a fraction of what US and it's poor vassals can.

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    Post  mnztr Fri May 26, 2023 9:56 pm

    Medvedev said the war in Ukraine may last decades. I know its hyperbole, but if it lasts more then another year IMHO its not good for Russia. To me they really need to deliver a death blow to the AFU, stunning in its power and force, that causes it to utterly collapse. Basically gather up 1000 + targets of military interest, gather up at least 1/3 of the air force, 1000 glide bomb, 500 cruise missiles and just unleash hell in a stunning blow. Maybe the are waiting for the "offensive" but maybe the "offensive" is just a delay tactic. I am guessing the Ukrainians are waiting for tree foliage to grow back so they can hide troops and vehicles again.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri May 26, 2023 10:27 pm

    The last time it lasted from 1918 till end of 50s, considering peaks.
    He is perfectly right, if we assume they are to conquer the whole of it.

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    Post  Belisarius Fri May 26, 2023 10:49 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 19 Img_2289
    Judging by the tail number on the fragment of the tail of the UAV, the number of Geraniums used during the SMO went into the thousands.
    https://t.me/lost_armour/780

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    Post  kvs Fri May 26, 2023 10:54 pm



    The Kiev regime and its NATzO patrons think they can create reality with lies.

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    Post  dionis Fri May 26, 2023 11:00 pm

    mnztr wrote:Medvedev said the war in Ukraine may last decades. I know its hyperbole, but if it lasts more then another year IMHO its not good for Russia. To me they really need to deliver a death blow to the AFU, stunning in its power and force, that causes it to utterly collapse. Basically gather up 1000 + targets of military interest, gather up at least 1/3 of the air force, 1000 glide bomb, 500 cruise missiles and just unleash hell in a stunning blow. Maybe the are waiting for the "offensive" but maybe the "offensive" is just a delay tactic. I am guessing the Ukrainians are waiting for tree foliage to grow back so they can hide troops and vehicles again.

    It's not hyperbole. If this "attrition" strategy is really what they are going for and it continues at roughly the current rate, even if they kill 200k Ukrainian soldiers per year (a highball in Russia's favor somewhat), Ukraine easily has 2M-5M men to spare. That's 10-25 years.

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    Post  Belisarius Sat May 27, 2023 12:10 am

    It's not hyperbole. If this "attrition" strategy is really what they are going for and it continues at roughly the current rate, even if they kill 200k Ukrainian soldiers per year (a highball in Russia's favor somewhat), Ukraine easily has 2M-5M men to spare. That's 10-25 years.

    It's not that simple, you don't kill 200k enemies in a war without leaving at least an equal or greater number wounded in a way that they are no longer fit for combat, and Ukraine cannot sustain for decades a war in which they suffer half a million KIA/WIA per year.

    Another huge problem that Ukraine has is the replacement of casualties, it takes a year to train a soldier, so every time a Ukrainian soldier dies another one has to be completing a year of training in order to have an effective replacement of casualties, and this is not what is happening. It is a proven fact that Ukraine is sending men after weeks, and in some cases days, of training to the front, and in the best case scenario, the Ukrainian recruit receives the basic training of a soldier, rushed through one month.

    This way, Ukrainian casualties will only tend to increase year after year, and in 10-25 years they will be short of women and children, let alone men, to send to the front lines.

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    Post  DerWolf Sat May 27, 2023 12:11 am

    dionis wrote:
    mnztr wrote:Medvedev said the war in Ukraine may last decades. I know its hyperbole, but if it lasts more then another year IMHO its not good for Russia. To me they really need to deliver a death blow to the AFU, stunning in its power and force, that causes it to utterly collapse. Basically gather up 1000 + targets of military interest, gather up at least 1/3 of the air force, 1000 glide bomb, 500 cruise missiles and just unleash hell in a stunning blow. Maybe the are waiting for the "offensive" but maybe the "offensive" is just a delay tactic. I am guessing the Ukrainians are waiting for tree foliage to grow back so they can hide troops and vehicles again.

    It's not hyperbole. If this "attrition" strategy is really what they are going for and it continues at roughly the current rate, even if they kill 200k Ukrainian soldiers per year (a highball in Russia's favor somewhat), Ukraine easily has 2M-5M men to spare. That's 10-25 years.

    It ia not only Ukrainians that get killed but also Russians.

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    Post  mnztr Sat May 27, 2023 12:25 am

    dionis wrote:
    mnztr wrote:Medvedev said the war in Ukraine may last decades. I know its hyperbole, but if it lasts more then another year IMHO its not good for Russia. To me they really need to deliver a death blow to the AFU, stunning in its power and force, that causes it to utterly collapse. Basically gather up 1000 + targets of military interest, gather up at least 1/3 of the air force, 1000 glide bomb, 500 cruise missiles and just unleash hell in a stunning blow. Maybe the are waiting for the "offensive" but maybe the "offensive" is just a delay tactic. I am guessing the Ukrainians are waiting for tree foliage to grow back so they can hide troops and vehicles again.

    It's not hyperbole. If this "attrition" strategy is really what they are going for and it continues at roughly the current rate, even if they kill 200k Ukrainian soldiers per year (a highball in Russia's favor somewhat), Ukraine easily has 2M-5M men to spare. That's 10-25 years.

    You are not counting the hundreds of thousand more that are so broken they are not fit for anything. Also at some point the attrition rate will accelerate.(it already is). The point is, all this talk of not wanting harm Ukrainian civilians and then allowing a war to continue for years and years is BULLSHIT. Russia can end this, we all know that. They can inflict a total defeat on Ukraine. The tragedy is, to kill 5m Ukrainians 500K Russians will also die. Russias general staff needs to use that massive military and deliver a fatal blow on the AFU.

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    Post  Regular Sat May 27, 2023 1:05 am

    Mir wrote:It's actually U$200+ for the Global Hawk Laughing

    Comparing American "money" with Russian buying power is senseless but as you've said the Russians and the rest of the world can produce these things at a fraction of what US and it's poor vassals can.

    But it doesn’t have to be global hawk sophistication level as these drones are easy to shoot down and pain in the hole to maintain. 

    Practical solution is to have multiple Inokhodets and more advanced male variant working in case something needs to be removed. They are not super expensive and already tested in real war. They can also communicate with Russian jets so if needed, Su-35 can join in if suddenly wild F-16 decides to hunt drones.

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    Post  PhSt Sat May 27, 2023 2:39 am

    even if they kill 200k Ukrainian soldiers per year (a highball in Russia's favor somewhat), Ukraine easily has 2M-5M men to spare. That's 10-25 years.

    5 or even 10 million soldiers won't last more than a month without food

    Russian MoD, if you are really checking this forum for insights, Destroy all food and water resources in Ukraine. Starve everyone to death. When most people are dead or are half dead from starvation, run them over with tanks, and don't forget to kill any NATO rodents along the way.

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    Post  d_taddei2 Sat May 27, 2023 2:49 am

    The North Koreans designed a 14.5mm gattling gun, both mounted on ships and a tow mount for land warfare, the Chinese then copied it and fitted it to various ships, it would be ideal for taking out this type of boat decent range, good penetration and plenty of rounds flying out the end. Maybe Russia should be buying some of the from NK and mount on their ships. (I have posted pics of it in various threads on this forum one being Koreans people's Army thread)

    As for what garryb mentioned in terms of old ATGW, pretty sure their must be some AT-2 laying around they could use, or AT-3 sagger although with them it would be ideal to convert to the Serbian 2T5 version (cheap upgrade) giving it command guidance and range of 5km.

    Another option would be to have small patrol boats covering the larger ships could be armed with 7.62mm or 12.7mm gattling guns depending on their size.


    Last edited by d_taddei2 on Sun May 28, 2023 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  PhSt Sat May 27, 2023 2:50 am


    But it doesn’t have to be global hawk sophistication level as these drones are easy to shoot down and pain in the hole to maintain.

    Practical solution is to have multiple Inokhodets and more advanced male variant working in case something needs to be removed. They are not super expensive and already tested in real war. They can also communicate with Russian jets so if needed, Su-35 can join in if suddenly wild F-16 decides to hunt drones.

    I couldn't find any up to date news about the Altius-M, Is the Altius simply a  prototype  to test uav technologies? I think this is the best moment for Russia to test Altius in real war conditions. I don't know if the Altius can compete with the Global hawk in terms of flight altitude and endurance, but perhaps Russia can fly these uavs on the same flight path of the Global hawks with two objectives in mind, 1) monitor and jam communications coming form the Global hawk, and 2) create turbulence in the flight path of the global hawk and if possible "unintentionally" collide with the enemy aircraft.

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    Post  Krepost Sat May 27, 2023 4:25 am

    Reconnaissance ship of the Black Sea Fleet "Ivan Khurs" arrived at the permanent base in Sevastopol
    Video embedded here:
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/20235262012-r2vly.html

    Not even a scratch on the ship.

    The pro-Ukrainian propagandists can kiss the posterior part of my body that does not see much sunshine.

    Other video:

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    Post  sundoesntrise Sat May 27, 2023 5:25 am

    PhSt wrote:

    5 or even 10 million soldiers won't last more than a month without food

    Russian MoD, if you are really checking this forum for insights, Destroy all food and water resources in Ukraine. Starve everyone to death. When most people are dead or are half dead from starvation, run them over with tanks, and don't forget to kill any NATO rodents along the way.

    Imagine the delusion. PhSt casually murmuring in himself thinking he is in contact with his self-proclaimed Gods.

    Overall content on this board has moved towards concerning.

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    Post  sundoesntrise Sat May 27, 2023 5:31 am

    DerWolf wrote:

    It ia not only Ukrainians that get killed but also Russians.

    All part of the plan to 'demilitarize' the West. This is according to the latest Kremlin COPE at least.

    Bytheway, add to that third countries like Pakistan, Turkey, Serbia, the UAE, Kazakhstan and South Korea. All countries that happily sell excess military stocks to the US/UK/EU for obvious reasons.

    This is what a 'We don't have a clue what we're doing' strategy in the real world looks like.

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    Post  Backman Sat May 27, 2023 5:49 am

    Prigozins retardation is 5th columnist level at this point. The Russian govt has to shut his fucking mouth up soon. He is literally spouting Anglo propaganda talking points. How is this not treason ? Saying Russia is at risk of a 1917 revolution. I gave up on trying to balance out any of this war with friends and stuff 5 months ago. And Im glad I did. It keeps getting worse and worse. How are you supposed to argue that Russia isn't at risk of some 1917 devolution when Russia's own leaders on the ground are saying it ?

    I wish I was my old neocon self listening to this. I'd feel so good. Music to my ears. Here we have Putins own retards saying this shit. Its truly beyond belief. Russia is not winning anyone over with this kind of garbage.

    How tone deaf can Prigozin himself be ? Why bother defending Russia at all when you're up against this shit?

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    Post  GarryB Sat May 27, 2023 6:38 am

    The ship was attacked once it left the straight, also trying to use drones to monitor open sea around you 24/7 isn't feasible at all, the sea is a big place even a smaller one like the black sea.

    Suspect he means a flying drone like a helicopter or balloon based drone perhaps the latter on a tether providing electricity for electric motors to keep airborne and to power cameras to view the water around the ship. Such a design could remain airborne for long periods and could be operated even from tiny boats... or even subs on the surface.

    Didn't you ban yourself (again) a short while ago?

    If you want to ban yourself then you get the privilege of determining how long for.

    The Maidan regime again successfully managed to enrage Vietnamese netizens

    Just look at how their so called diplomats behave in the west... demanding arms and money and complaining when they don't get it or even when they do that it is not enough and they want more.

    Um I didn't say that, now your just trying to be a child and put words in my mouth we do not use global hawks or reapers to patrol around a ship at sea

    Big drones would actually be ideal for monitoring things on the sea surface...

    But small tethered drones make more sense as each boat can carry several if needed.

    That image could be from any point of time, you cannot just present an image without any timestamp or proof its from after the attack and expect that to be taken as fact

    Yeah, timestamps can't be faked...

    Election Nov 2024, leaves office Jan 2025, so a while to go for Biden.

    Bugger... that is quite a while...

    Of course now the US is targeting Putin and Army generals perhaps they can just off him...

    America murders leaders of third world shit holes so why not Russia do the same and get Biden? pirat

    That drone cost too much to be a good investement. And works only in peace time. In war time it's an easy target for any fighter jet or air defence system.

    Not a good investement.

    Except that for Russia such a platform would be useful to patrol their own airspace and the Black Sea out of range of Orc ground based air defences used to just monitor sea traffic and to identify surface mine locations and sea surface drones.

    Such a role would be ideal for a large drone and being able to use it repeatedly and of course the fact that a Russian built drone will be a fraction of the price of a US drone too, would make it a good idea.

    Best is invest in more su-35 and produce more anti ship missiles. If you destroy enemy ships and fighters there is no reason yo monitor the sea anymore.

    Flying Su-35s around Russian intel ships operating in the Black Sea would be rather expensive and I am not sure it would detect such a drone very easily.

    UK media are claiming there is a revolution underway in Russia to over throw President Putin, they are the only media claiming this

    I saw that and there was another story stating a revolution in Belarus too... the irony is that the UK is probably closer to revolution than either Russia or Belarus is.


    Lancet, Geran 2, Orion, tb2... yes. Because they can be guided from the ground with a radio link and cost like a car thanks to their very low end quality with engines similar to what was done in WW2 and electronics very similar to civilian toys and drones.

    We were talking about drones to monitor the water around small ships on their own so they can deal with suicide surface drones better... a helicopter based drone with a tether or even a balloon based drone on a tether that supplies power to electric motors keeping the drone airborne means it could remain on station for the entire sea trip of the vessel and cameras showing the sea around the boat with wide angle and IIR cameras detecting incoming threats out to reasonable distances would be useful and totally passive... the video footage delivered to the boat via fibre optic cable...

    A few 12.7mm or 14.5mm AMR rifles with AP ammo and perhaps some 23mm gun mounts or maybe 30mm 2A72 gun mounts manually aimed would be a good add on.

    Medvedev said the war in Ukraine may last decades. I know its hyperbole, but if it lasts more then another year IMHO its not good for Russia.

    What he is saying is that this is not a war for fun or profit, and ending the war right now makes no sense for Russia because HATO will just continue arming and supplying Kiev to a point where they think they can attack and try to get back what they have lost, so for Russia even if it continues for 100 years the alternative is worse because right now when the UK sends DU ammo Russia can just track it and blow it up, but with a peace agreement that Russia could certainly not trust, they would just be able to complain... complaints that were ignored before the war and will be again.

    Maybe the are waiting for the "offensive" but maybe the "offensive" is just a delay tactic. I am guessing the Ukrainians are waiting for tree foliage to grow back so they can hide troops and vehicles again.

    The Russians are using drones in a way that I don't think leaves will really help the nazis.

    This conflict is really about the west, who don't care how many Orcs that get killed... they think both Russians and Ukrainians are Orcs... the more the better.

    But the west is spending a lot of money and will be spending more money for some time on ammo and weapons for Kiev and replacements for the material in stores they already sent to Kiev.... all of which is going to cost top dollar. Biden is pro this war... he has been engineering it for a decade and his family and other top US officials families are profiting from all this... their children are involved... I say kill them and their lust for Russian blood will sour, or the ones whose kids are still alive will suddenly lose interest.

    It's not hyperbole. If this "attrition" strategy is really what they are going for and it continues at roughly the current rate, even if they kill 200k Ukrainian soldiers per year (a highball in Russia's favor somewhat), Ukraine easily has 2M-5M men to spare. That's 10-25 years.

    They don't have any volunteers now... how will that turn out in a few years time when the natives realise all the ones that ran away to the west or to Russia are the only ones that survived... Kiev is relying on a propaganda war... what happens when the truth can't be hidden any more?

    But most important of all... the Ukraine is no longer able to make its own weapons and ammo and relies on handouts for the west and it is this that is likely to dry up first as the west loses interest... an unusually mild winter last year meant things were not so bad, but even a normal winter let alone a cold one and Europe is really going to struggle... including the Ukraine... how much will they continue to send then... especially when the US will likely have a similar winter and perhaps not have any energy to export to Europe this coming winter?

    They can inflict a total defeat on Ukraine. The tragedy is, to kill 5m Ukrainians 500K Russians will also die. Russias general staff needs to use that massive military and deliver a fatal blow on the AFU.

    It is not about defeating Kiev, it is about defeating Biden.... and that wont go on for 5 years.

    As for what garryb mentioned in terms of old ATGW, pretty sure their must be some AT-2 laying around they could use, or AT-3 sagger although with them it would be ideal to concert to the Serbian 2T5 version (cheap upgrade) giving it command guidance and range of 5km.

    The company making the AT-3 upgraded it and increased its armour penetration, but really the upgrade to make it SACLOS was all that was needed as the original warhead would be good enough for sea based targets.

    Prigozins retardation is 5th columnist level at this point.

    Hilarious... Russian billionaire attacks Russian billionaires... western media laps it up. surprise surprise.



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    Post  Lapain Sat May 27, 2023 7:06 am

    dionis wrote:

    It's not hyperbole. If this "attrition" strategy is really what they are going for and it continues at roughly the current rate, even if they kill 200k Ukrainian soldiers per year (a highball in Russia's favor somewhat), Ukraine easily has 2M-5M men to spare. That's 10-25 years.

    The objective has never been to kill off Ukrainians, if anything Russia should spare at least some of the good ones for future reconstruction.
    They are collateral damage of the greater conflict with the West. The Westoids aim is ever regime change in the Kremlin by destabilizing the Russian opinion with an "unwinnable war" plus intensifying local terrorism and PR stunts to prop up the public indignation against the SMO, a la Vietnam and Afghanistan.

    Problem for them is that what they are trying to inflict to the Russians, they are inflicting to themselves as well. The "unwinnable war" is becoming even more apparent to the collective West as the Russkies are winning arm wrestling matches in places like Bakhmut. Even the most daring PR stunts are having now a limited effect. Unlike the NVA, the AFU cannot afford several failed offensives. And more importantly, it is the Westoids that are increasingly facing economical hardships from recession to debt crisis.

    The fight in the ground is an actual sideshow, the real fight is economical and it is playing worldwide with the BRICS gaining momentum while the former emperor with no clothes Westoidsphere is fast becoming a laughingstock. All G7 leaders are walking a very fine thread between political crisis at home and playing the Power Rangers abroad, the more this "unwinnable war" lasts, the less chances they have in influencing the outcome of their proxy project. The death sentence is Trump ending the money laundering circus at a stroke and as German defence minister coined it; money transfers are all that's keeping the Kiev junta alive.  

    Ukraine and NATO will play their last game of the dice with that mythical counteroffensive. The SMO simply needs to survive it.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 19 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

    Post  ALAMO Sat May 27, 2023 7:39 am

    Only by looking at the method Ukroisis is using, tells everything and puts everything on its tracks.
    It is a terrorist state.
    And the things they are doing, are not a warfare of the winning side.
    Every single case is an act of desperation.
    What is an issue here is the fact, that the west has never restrained itself from aligning with terrorists.
    Opposite!
    They created those when there was a lack of it on the scene.
    For more than a decade, European Union is openly sponsoring terrorism. Carried several armed conflicts, destroyed a few relatively functioning countries. Yet still stage on the scene with its mouths full of slogans and European values.
    I remember the case, when some Dune reporter forced them finally after several years, to publish the list of "humanitarian aid" that Denmark provided to "moderate rebels" in Syria. There was not a single line on the list that could have been registered as regular humanitarian aid. Tactical vests, helmets, first aid kits, MRE, power generators, night vision, drones.
    They don't hide it even anymore.
    But that will backfire.
    This German general is just a safety valve. There will be others.

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