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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Fri May 26, 2023 10:58 am

    JohninMK wrote:Smile time

    The comments on that post are ridiculous... They said "small Kiev with their small military budget....." As if they did not receive support, money and equipment from all of the west and western aligned nations....

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    Post  GarryB Fri May 26, 2023 11:30 am

    One of the things they tested on small patrol boats was Ataka ATGMs... it is not wire guided and it is a fast missile but is compact and not heavy and could be fitted to a helicopter based drone to lift it up into the air and would be very good at stopping seaborne targets... it is quite accurate and they come with three different warhead types... HEAT and HE Frag and continuous rod for anti aircraft use... perhaps a HEAT warhead with less penetration and a wider penetrator that blows a HE round into the target to destroy the target could be developed.

    It seems that this ship was attacked repeatedly till they got the footage they wanted... they don't care about sinking boats or they would have tried to hit it in the middle, they just want videos they can show on the internet about how amazing they are.

    Getting more soldiers onto deck with small arms with armour penetration ammo, perhaps anti material rifles...

    Obviously the problem is that the more fire power you deploy the harder it is for each person shooting to work out where their rounds are hitting and to adjust their aim with a moving weaving target...

    Looked like there was a bit of a gap from the rear of the ship where the arcs of fire were not so good and was able to dodge enough to get in close.

    Perhaps a machine gun mount on the rear and the bow would help?

    But certainly guided missiles would be a good solution, especially if they can use obsolete ATGMs that they might have in enormous numbers that are not ideal for penetrating new tank armour but could penetrate and light up a small boat target.

    In addition to these VIEDs, there will be pirate jet boats that will need to be dealt with too and of course it does not need to be on the water... you want a system that can deal with airborne drones as well as sea surface ones.

    Any Neptune or Harpoon offshore battery will live only as long, as Ch-31 takes to arrive. In some cases, the target can be considered tasty enough to get some warm greetings from Iskander or Onyks...

    Except in this situation the Orcs might get target data from HATO platforms in Turkey and have vehicle launchers or launch containers for the missiles that can be camouflaged and parked along a beach line... when they get target data... punch that into the systems and launch the missiles and then just walk away... a Kh-31 arriving can do nothing because there wont be any radars operating there... drones might arrive and find the now empty launch containers, but what are they going to do about that?

    The real problem for the Orcs is that the Russian forces are designed to deal with anti ship missiles and so slower surface threats are a problem... which they would also be for even the best western navies whose air defence against anti ship missiles is even weaker.

    (Note the reason I suggest Ataka missiles is because they are already in storage in enormous numbers and are available and could be carried by drone helicopters on any ship from a small speed boat right up to an aircraft carrier to patrol around the ship looking for threats. The key here is early detection which makes dealing with them easier and safer for the ship.. and attack helicopter could fly to 200m away from the target and fire rockets or guns or guided missiles at a distance they wont miss and that they should survive an explosion of a significant VIED. Having two ATGMs means it could spot targets up to 6km away and hit them accurately, but equally it could be fitted with the gunpods the Hinds used to use with one 12.7mm four barrel gatling gun and two 7.62mm four barrel gatling guns and just fly out to where the target is and then fly above it and follow it shooting down at it from 50m or so from 200m away... ie a relatively safe distance, but firing in a way not to endanger the ships it is protecting... of course the ships can fire too... firing from behind minimises the closing speed and makes the shots easier with machine guns... obviously with missiles it can take off from the ship and launch almost straight away assuming the ships EO equipment detected the threats at a decent distance...)


    Last edited by GarryB on Fri May 26, 2023 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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    JohninMK
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    Post  JohninMK Fri May 26, 2023 11:36 am

    Spriter
    @Spriter99880
    ·
    9h
    Zelensky: Russia is increasingly conducting combined attacks, 260 "Shaheds" have reached their targets
    The President of Ukraine for the first time named the number of Shahid / Geran UAVs used by Russia and how many Ukrainian air defenses failed to shoot down.


    Now Russia is increasingly carrying out combined attacks. Our air defense has already shot down almost 900 Shahids, and in total the Russians used about 1,160 Shahids,” he said.


    Spriter
    @Spriter99880
    ·
    10h
    Ukrainian tankers are being trained in Germany on a Danish Leopard 1A5DK.

    Germany plans to transfer to Ukraine in the near future:

    - 110 LEOPARD 1 battle tanks (project co-financed with Denmark)
    - 20 MARDER infantry fighting vehicles
    - Ammunition for tanks LEOPARD 1
    - Ammunition for BMP MARDER
    - 6 IRIS-T SLM air defense systems (previously: 2) and missiles for them
    - 7 TRML-4D air surveillance radars (previously: 2)
    - 18 GEPARD anti-aircraft gun systems (previously: 3).


    Recall, the head of the Pentagon, Lloyd Austin, said that the United States and allies have provided or intend to provide Ukraine with a total military assistance of $65 billion.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Fri May 26, 2023 11:44 am

    Russia can't stop the west from doing that, but doesn't the west realise this will effect relations after the end of this conflict...

    The west probably thinks it will be part of the peace agreements... the US seems to think it can get an unconditional surrender from Russia so they can dictate terms, but I really don't think Russia is going to be interested in western fears and feelings and needs when their own fears and needs have been ignored and honestly abused by the current western leadership.

    I suspect not much will happen on the peace front at least till Biden is out of office, which is early 2024 isn't it?

    Then we will see how keen the west is to fund the Ukraine... and keep this conflict going.

    Colonials to the end it seems.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Fri May 26, 2023 11:49 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 18 Fxc4p910
    Looking good for a sunk ship. Rolling Eyes

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    Post  Arrow Fri May 26, 2023 12:00 pm

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri May 26, 2023 12:16 pm

    The Ivan Hurs (Khurs for you westerners) ship is very important for the Russian Navy and is one of the two built ships of project 18280.
    The Yuri Ivanov ship is in the service of the Northern Fleet.
    The Severnaya Verf should build two more ships of this project for the Pacific Fleet and the Baltic.
    Although, I think that at least two to three ships of this project should be built for the Northern and Pacific fleets.

    And to add something unrelated to the ship; In any case, at least now we know that Russia will also deploy nuclear weapons in Belarus, and they will ALMOST CERTAINLY be the nuclear variants of the Iskander system.

    TO GARRY; I agree with you that Russian relations with the West will not be like before February 2022, although the reality is that these relations have been bad since 2014. Russia must not allow that, even though it is not a problem because the main enemy of the West is on the southern Russian border and it is that DRAGON that will come to their heads.
    I am against everything that has to do with Nazism, colonialism and Bolshevism. Every violent ideology must be destroyed to its foundations, especially the myth of Western civilization and this last disgusting Western term - rule based order.

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    Post  GarryB Fri May 26, 2023 12:47 pm

    Well pro nazis will claim that last video of the sea drone proves the drone got close, but didn't prove the payload exploded.

    For all we know that last drone might have been a fizzer and they might have captured it... wouldn't be the first one of this type they have captured.

    You would think that they would uplink the video footage showing these attacks so they can brag to the world about their success... all it would take is sending a drone without a warhead to go in last to film the previous attacks... not having a bomb on board would make it much harder to take out... as you saw in the video the Russians released a single hit from what appears to be a 14.5mm HMG round set off the payload... with a bit of light armour plate and not HE payload the filming drone would be more likely to survive long enough to deliver useful footage... maybe this last drone was the video drone and its lack of a HE payload or a faulty HE payload is why its video remained intact and it got so close to the target because repeated hits would not set it off.

    If anything this is further proof that when the Orcs claim a victory and Putin is defeated... wait a bit to find out what really happened because Kiev is lying even if they have morsels of truth weaved into their PR BS.

    Every violent ideology must be destroyed to its foundations, especially the myth of Western civilization and this last disgusting Western term - rule based order.

    I respect your idealism, but right now the west is toxic and Russians and Chinese and BRICS and those aspiring to be BRICS countries need to realise that the west is damaged goods and will pervert your culture and your people and break you and turn you evil.

    The irony is that on paper Putin is the ideal western leader, he does not predict who will win in foreign elections... he says it is not his place to make a comment and that Russian will work with anyone that countries people decide should lead them... western politicians pick their guy.... and when most of the western world predicted Hilary would win and Trump beat her you could tell he was loving seeing them squirm and knew exactly what they said when asked who would win... Hilary obviously... only an idiot would vote for Trump... of course Americans are going to take voting advice from Europeans...

    The point is that Putin has had the time to turn Russia around and he did it without violence or martial law... he has not started fake wars to gain extra powers, he has actually dealt with a lot of shit despite all the rubbish the west throws at him... the west sees his lack of lashing out as a weakness but he responds to foreign aggression with measured responses designed to not backfire like western sanctions have backfired on them.

    I am just annoyed there is no Putin like politician here to vote for... we have national and labour... labour is the lefties who hate big business but don't really seem to support the workers either and don't really do anything to reduce the damage big business does, and national who love big business and would have us flying F-16s we couldn't afford and kissing US arse... which we also can't afford.

    I suspect most western countries have essentially the same problem.... lots of promises but when they get into office they act pretty much the same as the other guys with a few minor exceptions.

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    Post  franco Fri May 26, 2023 1:00 pm

    MOSCOW, May 26. /TASS/. More than 2,000 mercenaries from 71 countries, including 234 US nationals, are fighting against the Russian Armed Forces in the special military operation zone, Russia’s Investigative Committee (IC) told TASS on Friday.

    "According to information from Russian intelligence services, there are more than 2,000 [mercenaries] from 71 countries. <…> These include 366 Georgians, 234 Americans, 233 British nationals, 185 Syrian citizens, and 70 more individuals from Canada and a number of other countries," the IC said in a statement.

    According to the law enforcement agency, IC Chairman Alexander Bastrykin has held an operational meeting in Donetsk to discuss probes into the crimes committed by Ukrainian troops against civilians and Russian service members. So far, 80 criminal cases have been sent to the courts, with a number of guilty verdicts already being handed down.

    "At the same time, active work is ongoing to register crimes against peace and the security of humankind committed by Ukrainian military leaders, commanders and soldiers, as well as other Ukrainian units," the Investigative Committee concluded.

    Addressing a meeting of the Council of Defense Ministers under the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) on Thursday, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said that more than 2,500 foreign mercenaries were implicated in punitive actions and combat operations, which would result in escalation leading to a protracted conflict.

    https://tass.com/defense/1623339

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri May 26, 2023 2:02 pm

    Mir wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:
    I suppose that Russians must pay closer attention to the Iranian antidrone warfare, again.

    Not just that - they should get long range recce drones for maritime patrol duty as an early warning to these type of threats.

    The ship was attacked once it left the straight, also trying to use drones to monitor open sea around you 24/7 isn't feasible at all, the sea is a big place even a smaller one like the black sea.
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    Post  Mir Fri May 26, 2023 2:18 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:The Ivan Hurs (Khurs for you westerners) ship is very important for the Russian Navy and is one of the two built ships of project 18280.
    The Yuri Ivanov ship is in the service of the Northern Fleet.
    The Severnaya Verf should build two more ships of this project for the Pacific Fleet and the Baltic.
    Although, I think that at least two to three ships of this project should be built for the Northern and Pacific fleets.

    They also have a Pr.864 on duty in the Black Sea. This Soviet era ship dates from the 80's but is quite well armed with it's 2 AK-630's which is far more effective than the 2 single barrel 14.5mm MTPU's on the Pr.18280. I have mentioned it before that some principle ships are too lightly armed for self defense - Ivan Gren as an example - probably as a cost saving measure. This SMO should provide the necessary wake-up call IMO.

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    Post  Mir Fri May 26, 2023 2:24 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    The ship was attacked once it left the straight, also trying to use drones to monitor open sea around you 24/7 isn't feasible at all, the sea is a big place even a smaller one like the black sea.

    So you recon the Global Hawk and the Reaper long range drones are a waist of money? Interesting.

    PS - it would be interesting to know where those speed boats were launched from...definitely not anywhere near 404 territory.

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    Post  Erk Fri May 26, 2023 2:42 pm


    MOSCOW, May 25. /TASS/. A Western-led undeclared war is being waged against Moscow and Minsk, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said at a meeting with his Belarusian counterpart, Viktor Khrenin, on Thursday.

    "Today, we are being confronted by the collective West, which, in effect, is waging an undeclared war on our countries," Shoigu said.
    https://tass.com/defense/1622791

    It's only taken him 9 years to finally figure out what is obvious to most of the non-Western world.

    Outstanding!

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    Post  flamming_python Fri May 26, 2023 3:05 pm

    Podlodka77 wrote:The Ivan Hurs (Khurs for you westerners) ship is very important for the Russian Navy and is one of the two built ships of project 18280.
    The Yuri Ivanov ship is in the service of the Northern Fleet.
    The Severnaya Verf should build two more ships of this project for the Pacific Fleet and the Baltic.
    Although, I think that at least two to three ships of this project should be built for the Northern and Pacific fleets.

    And to add something unrelated to the ship; In any case, at least now we know that Russia will also deploy nuclear weapons in Belarus, and they will ALMOST CERTAINLY be the nuclear variants of the Iskander system.

    TO GARRY; I agree with you that Russian relations with the West will not be like before February 2022, although the reality is that these relations have been bad since 2014. Russia must not allow that, even though it is not a problem because the main enemy of the West is on the southern Russian border and it is that DRAGON that will come to their heads.
    I am against everything that has to do with Nazism, colonialism and Bolshevism. Every violent ideology must be destroyed to its foundations, especially the myth of Western civilization and this last disgusting Western term - rule based order.

    Didn't you ban yourself (again) a short while ago? unshaven

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    Post  famschopman Fri May 26, 2023 3:57 pm

    PS - it would be interesting to know where those speed boats were launched from...definitely not anywhere near 404 territory.

    Submarine launched? Put one or two in the ASDS, open the hatch and the buoyance will do the rest. If you keep the pressure higher in the ASDS it will push the device outside.

    Something like this: https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/SDV-USS-Dallas-1623x974.jpg
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    Post  Isos Fri May 26, 2023 4:14 pm

    I'm more interested by how they can control them from the ground in Ukraine all down to Bosphorus strait.

    The waves and all the signals within the area are jamming sources but also the earth curves doesn't allow such long data connexion.

    Even airborne drones can be controled just 200km away from the ground. They need satelitte connexions further than that.

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    Post  higurashihougi Fri May 26, 2023 4:19 pm

    The Maidan regime again successfully managed to enrage Vietnamese netizens.

    A lot of Vietnamese people is asking a question: do the Maidan regime know the basic of diplomatic affairs ?

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 18 Truong10

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    Post  Podlodka77 Fri May 26, 2023 4:22 pm

    To FP

    Yes...
    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri May 26, 2023 5:11 pm

    Mir wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    The ship was attacked once it left the straight, also trying to use drones to monitor open sea around you 24/7 isn't feasible at all, the sea is a big place even a smaller one like the black sea.

    So you recon the Global Hawk and the Reaper long range drones are a waist of money? Interesting.

    PS - it would be interesting to know where those speed boats were launched from...definitely not anywhere near 404 territory.

    Um I didn't say that, now your just trying to be a child and put words in my mouth we do not use global hawks or reapers to patrol around a ship at sea
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    Post  Hole Fri May 26, 2023 5:53 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 18 Scree708
    Other side, not a scratch.
    Ghost of Kiev struck again. How many times will some people believe the same shitty claims from the UkroNazis?

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri May 26, 2023 5:57 pm

    That image could be from any point of time, you cannot just present an image without any timestamp or proof its from after the attack and expect that to be taken as fact
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    Post  JohninMK Fri May 26, 2023 6:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    I suspect not much will happen on the peace front at least till Biden is out of office, which is early 2024 isn't it?

    Then we will see how keen the west is to fund the Ukraine... and keep this conflict going.

    Colonials to the end it seems.

    Election Nov 2024, leaves office Jan 2025, so a while to go for Biden.
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    Post  Isos Fri May 26, 2023 6:47 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:That image could be from any point of time, you cannot just present an image without any timestamp or proof its from after the attack and expect that to be taken as fact

    It's from today.

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    Post  Mir Fri May 26, 2023 7:11 pm

    famschopman wrote:
    PS - it would be interesting to know where those speed boats were launched from...definitely not anywhere near 404 territory.

    Submarine launched? Put one or two in the ASDS, open the hatch and the buoyance will do the rest. If you keep the pressure higher in the ASDS it will push the device outside.

    Something like this: https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/SDV-USS-Dallas-1623x974.jpg

    I know there was some report of a USN nuclear sub heading to the Black Sea but I don't think Turkey would not allow any of that.
    Legally only nations bordering the BS can station subs in the said sea.

    I think it was probably launched from some cargo/grain ship or even from Romania.

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    Post  Mir Fri May 26, 2023 7:23 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Um I didn't say that, now your just trying to be a child and put words in my mouth we do not use global hawks or reapers to patrol around a ship at sea

    Whenever people respond to your posts your follow up often includes the word "child". Any particular reason?

    This is what you said:

    trying to use drones to monitor open sea around you 24/7 isn't feasible at all

    Maybe a picture will work better for a person with your intellect dunno

    [/url]Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 18 Triton10

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