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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Sun May 21, 2023 4:27 pm

    Isos wrote:Poland attacking russian forces means bye bye article 5. Russia can level the country with nuks no one will move a finger.

    No one would move finger either way but in this specific case Poland will not be allowed to attack anything because it would pop the whole NATO setup when their allies are publicly forced into not doing a thing to save them

    Polish attack on Russia would be equivalent of USA handing Russia keys to the entire hemisphere at no cost whatsoever



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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun May 21, 2023 4:51 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 7 Fwphzb10
    lol1

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun May 21, 2023 5:12 pm

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:@AZgeopolitics
    Zelensky compared Hiroshima with Bakhmut
    “What happened in Hiroshima and the destruction that we have ... I will say frankly, I will say openly - the photos of the destruction of Hiroshima remind me of Bakhmut,” the NarcoFuhrer said.

    How perverted does one have to be to draw such a comparison? Killing thousands of civilians in one go and here soldiers against "soldiers is something completely different. A crime against humanity is put into perspective. Disgusting.

    The only comparison possible there is the Japanese war crimes against chinese and ukrainian against russian speaking ukrainians.

    Maybe it's time to remember also japanese nazisme in the asian pacific area in 1945 that was on par with german nazi.

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    Post  Sujoy Sun May 21, 2023 5:49 pm

    Ukrainians abandoning their soldiers and escaping

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    Post  Sujoy Sun May 21, 2023 5:49 pm

    Russian explosive reactive armour (ERA), has proven highly effective in preventing most anti-tank systems from defeating the tank’s armour.

    What Russian tanks should do to ensure a one shot kill is to target the point between the turret and glacis of Ukrainian tanks.

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Sun May 21, 2023 6:31 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Gunship wrote:The International Criminal Court
    ICC not amused to receive the american treatment from Russia. lol1

    Americans were even more aggressive. They pretty much said if the ICC arrests an American they would come down and kill them.

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    Post  Broski Sun May 21, 2023 7:15 pm

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:@AZgeopolitics
    Zelensky compared Hiroshima with Bakhmut
    “What happened in Hiroshima and the destruction that we have ... I will say frankly, I will say openly - the photos of the destruction of Hiroshima remind me of Bakhmut,” the NarcoFuhrer said.
    I agree with the little homosexual khazar midget for once, America was responsible for the destruction in Hiroshima and they're responsible for the destruction in Bakhmut, ultimately.

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    Post  flamming_python Sun May 21, 2023 7:16 pm



    Man what a goldmine. Must be enough Thompsons there to equip an army. Wonder why the USSR didn't do just that with the beginning of the Cold War, and give them all to one client state or another? Smile

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Sun May 21, 2023 8:19 pm

    Sometimes when the propaganda goal runs high, reality prevails.



    This is the latest POW switch.
    Calculate average age, anyone.

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    ucmvulcan
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    Post  ucmvulcan Sun May 21, 2023 8:26 pm

    ALAMO wrote:Sometimes when the propaganda goal runs high, reality prevails.



    This is the latest POW switch.
    Calculate average age, anyone.

    Good number of those were old enough to fight in Afghanistan. A lot look like they were some years in civulian life before Afghanistan started and some look like they should be in whatever high school is called in Ukraine

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Sun May 21, 2023 9:03 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    Man what a goldmine. Must be enough Thompsons there to equip an army. Wonder why the USSR didn't do just that with the beginning of the Cold War, and give them all to one client state or another? Smile

    Lot of spare parts and shitty old equipement.

    Even the africans won't want this. I guess the best is to burn because the probability they kill civilians is way higher than being used in a conventional war.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun May 21, 2023 9:55 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 7 Fwp_5v10
    Second later a suicide drone hit them.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 7 Fwq47t10
    Just like the Patriot in Kiev, a slightly damaged Humvee. lol1
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 7 Fwrhvy10
    Artem... No, it´s Detroit. Sorry.

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun May 21, 2023 9:56 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 7 Fwqnxi10
    Unwelcomed guest. lol1

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Sun May 21, 2023 10:13 pm

    I am getting drunk today, Congratulations Wagner for taking Bakhmut cheers . Hearing that Avdeevka is next on the menu.

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    andalusia


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    Post  andalusia Sun May 21, 2023 10:15 pm

    Does SA even manufacture weapons in Russian calibres?
    Does Russia use western weapons & calibres??
    Is Russia short of weapon & ammo manufacturing capacity?
    I find this story VERY unlikely, & may be just another (((neocohn))) hoax....


    https://www.news24.com/news24/politics/government/breaking-us-ambassador-says-south-africa-gave-weapons-to-russia-for-ukraine-war-20230511

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    franco
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    Post  franco Sun May 21, 2023 10:54 pm

    Isos wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:

    Man what a goldmine. Must be enough Thompsons there to equip an army. Wonder why the USSR didn't do just that with the beginning of the Cold War, and give them all to one client state or another? Smile

    Lot of spare parts and shitty old equipement.

    Even the africans won't want this. I guess the best is to burn because the probability they kill civilians is way higher than being used in a conventional war.

    Send them to the US of A... they would be worth a fortune and well Americans being Americans Wink

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    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sun May 21, 2023 11:03 pm

    Mikael Valtersson
    @MikaelValterss1
    NEWS UPDATE BAKHMUT/ARTEMOVSK LATE AFTERNOON MAY 20
    Bakmut has fallen. Ukrainian forces in the SW corner of the city and near the city in the fields has retreated. Mopping up operations will continue until May 25th. But it seems Bakhmut is fully in Wagner/russian hands now. There are more rumours about other progress for the russian side, as for example the capture of Khromove as well, but such rumours tend to run wild when big things happen, so until otherwise proven I will discard those rumours.

    Wagner forces and many prorussians are or will celebrate today. They got their special date, May 20th, now known as the liberation day, of Mariupol and Bakhmut. Ukrainian authorities and many proukrainians will probably deny the fall of Bakhmut a couple of days at least. When Soledar fell it took two weeks until ukrainian authorities conceded defeat.

    I will write a little more detailed update in a while and both talk about what happened during the battle, it's consequences and future possibilities.

    Last but not least I must express my respect to all those fine warriors from both sides who has fought hard and bravely during the battle of Bakhmut. And also ask everybody to give some thoughts to the tens of thousands of soldiers who have been killed, maimed or wounded during the battle.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 7 FwlW40oXgAI0Udp?format=jpg&name=medium

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    thegopnik
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    Post  thegopnik Mon May 22, 2023 12:13 am

    stocks fell for Raytheon, the creators of Patriots.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 7 16847010





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    Post  JohninMK Mon May 22, 2023 12:26 am

    Spriter
    @Spriter99880
    The United States has awarded Ukraine a new military aid package worth $375 million.

    The new military package includes:

    - an additional number of GMLRS high-precision guided missiles for the HIMARS missile systems;
    - 155 mm and 105 mm artillery rounds;
    - TOV anti-tank guided missiles;
    - guided missiles with a laser guidance system (allegedly, 70-mm APKVS);
    - Javelin anti-tank guided missile systems and AT4 disposable anti-tank grenade launchers;
    - subversive assets;
    - reservoir bridge layers;
    - armored medical vehicles;
    - tractors and trailers for transporting heavy equipment;
    - equipment for logistics (apparently, vehicles);
    - thermal imaging systems;
    - Spare parts and other field assets.
    9:59 PM · May 21, 2023
    ·
    16.5K
    Views

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Mon May 22, 2023 1:58 am

    A bet a few crates of those guns would satisfy the collector/enthusiest demand. 

    I wonder what would happen if they had an online auction. Get Ritchi Bros in there to auction them off. 
    Ukraine was using old guns like this but I don't think they had the maneuvering time and space to make use of them. I guess they will just sit there. Unless that underground space becomes high value real estate in the future which I doubt

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    Post  Backman Mon May 22, 2023 2:06 am

    I don't particularly respect the fallen soldiers on the Ukraine side. The onus was on them to surrender, create a mutiny , kill their commanders , break off into their own group. Anything but what they did. They were by far the weaker side that had no chance. 

    The easiest thing to do is just follow orders. Even if those orders are to fight until your death for no reason other than to provide some resistance to Russia. Which is what these losers did. This was the most obvious proxy slaughter set up by the US ever. Anyone could see what was going to happen. But they followed orders and just hoped that the guy beside them was the one that was gonna die , and they'd somehow make it out alive. That's what each individual soldier thought. And yet they all died

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    Post  ucmvulcan Mon May 22, 2023 2:31 am

    Backman wrote:I don't particularly respect the fallen soldiers on the Ukraine side. The onus was on them to surrender, create a mutiny , kill their commanders , break off into their own group. Anything but what they did. They were by far the weaker side that had no chance. 

    The easiest thing to do is just follow orders. Even if those orders are to fight until your death for no reason other than to provide some resistance to Russia. Which is what these losers did. This was the most obvious proxy slaughter set up by the US ever. Anyone could see what was going to happen. But they followed orders and just hoped that the guy beside them was the one that was gonna die , and they'd somehow make it out alive. That's what each individual soldier thought. And yet they all died

    A year ago, sure. The neonazis and foreign mercs, sure. The officers and professional troops and shamans and radicalized? Sure. Give them little to no quarter. The Volksturm? The kids who should be in whatever the Ukes and Europeans call Freshman and Sophomore year in high school? I do feel bad for them and their families.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon May 22, 2023 3:10 am

    Tell me, which NATO members would be willing to declare war on Russia and risk a direct confrontation with the largest nuclear power in the world to defend Poland?

    Article five is about defending a member country that was unilaterally attacked by a third party... for instance Turkey cannot invade Syria and then demand HATO support that invasion if Syria or another country responds to their attack.

    Article five is about defending allies from outside aggression... but if you picked the fight yourself they are under no obligation to help you.

    Note Turkey didn't get involved in the war in Iraq and was not obliged to because the US was not defending itself it was attacking.

    I still presume none of that will happen because Poland has a big conventional army and if they push in while AFU is still a thing, it will create problems for the Russians.

    There are no threats or targets inside the Ukraine that warrant the use of nuclear weapons by Russia, but a large conventional HATO force entering the conflict does warrant the use of nuclear weapons... any open armed conflict with HATO warrants that when it means they could advance and attack (new) Russian territory.

    The game the west has been playing is escalation so Polish troops in western Ukraine without agreement could easily lead to Polish troops moving eastwards to help Kiev reclaim lost territory... which threatens Russian territory which justifies the use of Nukes... it is Russian law.

    Poland could drag itself into a war and not evoke Article 5 but use "passive" support from NATO like Ukraine has.

    The Polish armed forces entering the conflict is different from fighting Ukraine... Russia thinks plenty of Ukrainians are just brain washed Russias. Russia knows Poles are not Russians and their leadership rabidly hates Russians and Russia... so there is no need to not go overkill when it comes to Polish forces... which means nuclear weapons become a useful and reasonable option.

    F-16 operating from abroad will have to be tackled in some other way than the easiest "just destroy it on the ground".

    Getting them in the air will get the pilots too.

    Working out where they took off from means potentially getting the ground crew and support equipment too.

    P.S. if you think RF would nuke Poland if it decides to involve itself, why they didn't do it to Ukraine then?

    Because in a conventional war against only the Ukraine even if supplied with western weapons and ammo they know they will win.

    Start adding the conventional forces of Poland and other HATO states and the numbers change and the threat of a repeat of Korea rears its ugly head but with Kiev shelling and carrying out terrorist attacks on Russians that would be something Russia could not tolerate... which was part of why they started the war in the first place... kiev was going to keep killing people and getting stronger.

    No it cannot only justification for using nukes is being nuked yourself, or if your capital is being marched on.

    You have not read their doctrine then?

    A HATO force helping a terrorist power attack new Russian territory is grounds for using nukes, because their goal is to take back new Russian territories, and Russian doctrine basically states that nukes can be used if the territorial integrity of Russia is threatened... I suspect it was in case the Japs tried to take the Kurile islands by force or if the Europeans tried to take Kaliningrad by force, but it applies here too.

    Russia would not nuke Poland, but it has a lot of different options that could cause incredible damage to it without going nuclear.

    If Poland sends a large conventional military force into western Ukraine then nuking them there would make more sense than letting them move through the Ukraine to the eastern areas where the fighting is and most of the damage has been inflicted.

    Equally if Polish troops officially enter Ukrainian territory then hitting them in Poland and on the border could also be an option too.

    Obviously give them warnings first, but they will be ignored as usual.

    Of course command posts, radars, airfields, military industries, ammo depots, fuel depots, naval bases, rail junctions, etc.. will all be targeted - they will have to be as they're involved in direct hostilities against Russia.

    Which of course will be reported as hospitals and churches and schools and animal shelters and zoos and museums...

    Can't see Poland moving into Ukraine without attacking Kaliningrad too...

    And then they can nuke the hell out of them.... why not... if they don't then they risk other HATO countries joining Poland in attacking Russia or Belarus.

    Americans were even more aggressive. They pretty much said if the ICC arrests an American they would come down and kill them.

    The americans passed a law that said any American held by the ICC can be broken out of prison by force by the US military...

    A bet a few crates of those guns would satisfy the collector/enthusiest demand.

    Those thompsons would not be much use there because I doubt they could get the ammo for it... not a common calibre in that region...

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Mon May 22, 2023 3:43 am

    @AZgeopolitics
    Air alerts all over UkroReich
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #43 - Page 7 FwsYmAHWYAcK_xK?format=jpg&name=large

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    Post  Backman Mon May 22, 2023 4:29 am

    Prigonzhin called Shoigu and the MOD crooks and corrupt in his victory speech. So this lunatic is just gonna keep going this way I guess

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