Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+66
ludovicense
Dr.Snufflebug
famschopman
Rodion_Romanovic
owais.usmani
Godric
VARGR198
Airbornewolf
0nillie0
andalusia
DerWolf
Firebird
Sujoy
calripson
Erk
Scorpius
Isos
mnztr
Krepost
Ispan
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
Belisarius
sepheronx
ALAMO
Arrow
Walther von Oldenburg
GunshipDemocracy
LMFS
JohninMK
Tolstoy
Big_Gazza
Lapain
ATLASCUB
GarryB
lyle6
Kiko
Serberus
ucmvulcan
crod
Werewolf
kvs
franco
flamming_python
Broski
TMA1
auslander
AlfaT8
Podlodka77
PapaDragon
Azi
Mir
nomadski
Arsenic
sundoesntrise
Hole
Stealthflanker
Regular
caveat emptor
limb
thegopnik
billybatts91
PhSt
Backman
zorobabel
SeigSoloyvov
Arkanghelsk
70 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10665
    Points : 10643
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 47
    Location : Scholzistan

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  Hole Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:47 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Feop6x10
    Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

    GarryB, franco, flamming_python, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, auslander and like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6651
    Points : 6741
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:02 pm

    0nillie0 wrote:
    From the videos i have seen from Ukrainian advance today it looks the Russians left nothing behind. No Ammo, weapons or supplies. Even few vehicles. No dead or traces of wounded.
    On the one hand it looks like a hasty retreat after lines are Broken by mobile units. On the other it looks like Ukrainians are entering Ghost towns with only a Russian flag. Looks like they left a while earlier

    As our English originated/non-Rissian speakers are obviously cut off from the pictures, what bothers me more are the ones who claim to do have access to the Russian language materials scratch
    On the other hand, remembering that most of them have a principal problem with understanding how the "1 mln army" is subordinated, I can believe actually in everything, flying elephant Dumbo included lol!
    Again ...
    Just lurk on any random channel that delivers any on-the-spot content.
    Don't read it if you don't read Russian.
    Don't hear the comments if you don't speak the language either.
    Just watch.
    Ukro army consists of light forces driving pickups. ISIS-style at its best.
    Transport of troops on the battlefield is being carried by civilian buses. Taxis. Ambulances. Bloody school buses Shocked
    They are advancing in the M113 remembering 70s, hoping not to meet anything on the way.
    If they are unlucky enough to find a squad of Russkie with BTR-92A, they are just being decimated.
    Columns are pulverized.
    Road sides are full of destroyed, burned vehicles.
    Forests are full of them either.
    Rotting bodies are everywhere. Inside the burned technicals, in the fields, in the tranches.
    A new play is "zaPTURit", what translates to "shoot with ATGM". Russkie are hitting the defensive lines and hideouts with FAE carrying Kornets just spaced a dozen meters each.
    The "encouraging" materials are being made with the soundtrack of old UPA if I remember the song "Don't cry mother over your dead son body".
    Oh, that must be an effect of devastating progress and won battles! Twisted Evil
    The whole "mighty offensive" hits perfectly nothing.
    Russkie are either not there at all, or they are resisting with covering forces while the main are just withdrawing in organized manner.
    Leaving nothing behind, and carrying operations behind the lines and DRG hunting.

    How do you think, how long the 25mln Ukraine can withstand this exchange? 30k fresh troops for 5 destructed settlements, and again, and again, and again?

    Do you realize, that those morons made a #hashtag where they cheer the fact that Russkie mobilize? Laughing Laughing scratch
    How dumn one can be, to cheer the fact that a country 6 times bigger than you decided to end playing nice, and simply doubled the land forces size in a matter of a month? scratch
    Because there are tons of Ukro sourced materials, where the ones that are more sane are asking openly "what do you all idiots cheer other than the fact they will march over us in a moment?!?".

    GarryB, Werewolf, Airbornewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B, Hole and like this post

    thegopnik
    thegopnik


    Posts : 1706
    Points : 1708
    Join date : 2017-09-20

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  thegopnik Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:20 pm

    Hole wrote:Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Feop6x10
    Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

    where is this quote from?
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  flamming_python Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:24 pm

    Broski wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    PhSt wrote:
    Mir wrote:Yes not nice to see but the pullback brings out the rats from their burrows to get slaughtered.

    If the Ukro Nazis are getting slaughtered, why are they able to advance and overun Russian territories? Something here doesn't add up..

    Perhaps the Russians allow them to do so for exactly that purpose?
    There seems to be a lot of losses (men and equipment) on the [F]Ukrs side.
    The headless chickens running around this forum don't care about Ukrainian losses, they'd rather Russia sacrifice 1000's of soldiers per week like the Bandera regime does to keep territory for PR victories. These people are pathetic and I no longer entertain their "concern troll" tactics. Russia(USSR), against a much more formidable enemy, gave up entire cities in order to inflict a crushing defeat on its enemy yet pulling back from a few godforsaken villages invokes such panic in these chickenshit armchair generals.

    Yeah I keep hearing these "the Ukrainians take all these losses, but they just keep coming, they keep taking territory!" panicy posts

    Guys get a grip.
    Who cares about the territory? Losses is what the name of the game is all about
    If Russia has 500 troops defending somewhere who then manage to retreat without getting captured or ambushed, while the other side is even admitting over having 20k casualties over the past month from its offensives - so then do the maths yourself. Who is going to run out of troops first?

    The Ukraine/NATO are trying to win the war very quickly, banking on some miracle or Russian morale collapsing or something or other.
    But Russia is playing the long game, it seems to expect the war to go on for years and is preserving its reserves accordingly

    Big_Gazza wrote:IMHO the very fact that Russia is going to adopt the 4 regions into the Federation is clear evidence that the Kremlin and the general staff is fully confident that Russian forces will fully triumph over the Ukrops, reagrdless of its troop levels and NATO support.  Otherwise, if the Ukrops continued to advance into newly-ascended Russian territory then Russia would suffer a crushing political defeat and a loss of face, and the Kremlin isn't about to risk any such thing.

    I hate seeing the orcs take any territory, and knowing that they are losing equipment and bleeding out into dirt isn't much of a salve, but its a temporary aberration, and once the Russian army finally takes off the gloves and gets stuck in, these Ukro trash will be simply eradicated.  Once Russian armoured columns are cutting through Ukro territory, peeps are gonna quickly forget the current reversals, and the Twattersphere will be full of wailing hysterical bandera morons crying in despair and disbelief. Twisted Evil

    A little patience is all that is needed.  All good things come to those who wait...   russia


    The gloves are off

    This is the way the war is being fought. And the tactics against the latest Ukrainian/NATO offensive mirror those of Kutuzov and Barclay de Tolly. And these tactics weren't popular amongst the troops and presumably the population during the war against Napoleon either. But all that was forgotten when they worked and Napoleon was defeated.

    You guys are just going to have to get used to that. Whether doomer or 'gloves will come off any minute now!' guy. Russia will roll with the punches and then roll the Ukrainian forces up like a rug once they fully exhaust and over-extend themselves.
    While the 'gloves', as mentioned previously, are already fully off and the Ukrainian forces are suffering large attritional damage at every turn


    Last edited by flamming_python on Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:42 pm; edited 2 times in total

    GarryB, franco, Werewolf, Airbornewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO and like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14642
    Points : 14777
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  JohninMK Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:25 pm

    Not heard of the balls before, steel shards yes.

    TASS - Ukrainian army uses outlawed US weapons - on Monday Ukrainian forces attacked the city of Starobelsk with a US-made HIMARS multiple launch rocket system. The rocket was filled with shrapnel - tungsten balls.
    The rocket that hit a childcare center in Starobelsk was made in 2017.

    This is a confirmation that in defiance of all conventions the Americans continue to produce and use ammunition that is prohibited by international law.

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, zepia, zardof, Sprut-B, Hole and lancelot like this post

    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15110
    Points : 15247
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  kvs Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:26 pm

    Thanks ALAMO for bringing value to this thread. The details that make the true story and not the hysterical BS based on
    intellectual onanism.

    GarryB, Werewolf, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, ALAMO, GunshipDemocracy, Sprut-B and like this post

    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


    Posts : 2461
    Points : 2452
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  AlfaT8 Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:28 pm

    I know this isnt a football game, the strategy is clearly comes from the Syrian war, that being said.
    Continuosly losing ground, over and over again, is going to bring many to question this one note strategy, as well as the competance of the MoD and the kremlin in general.

    Why allow the opponent to continue to recieve commands to do this.

    Your enemy is being well drawn in, now decapitate their command and control, blind them,surround them and slaugther them.

    When will the order be given i wonder?
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  flamming_python Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:31 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    kvs wrote:The chicken little hysterics have no clue about the resource effort to secure every km of a 1200 km front.   They expect Russia to be exerting
    the same effort all along this line.  Instead Russian forces are doing the appropriate thing and controlling relevant territory while waves
    of Ukr cannon fodder expend themselves in PR "victories".   The armchair generals make up their own metrics of success and fail Russia
    for not meeting them.  


    I wonder what kind of fanboy remark you would make if the russians lost Kherson, not that I think they will but it would be funny to see the fanboys try to defend that one

    The largest settlement the Ukrainians have recaptured so far is Krasnyj Liman. Pre-war population - 20,000. And just a short advance from the front-line back in September.

    Quite a leap to go from that to Kherson, population nearly 300,000 and a regional capital.

    Why not suppose the Ukrainians will capture Donetsk, or hell Belgorod next?

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs, Sprut-B, Hole, Mir, Broski and Podlodka77 like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  flamming_python Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:33 pm

    AlfaT8 wrote:I know this isnt a football game, the strategy is clearly comes from the Syrian war, that being said.
    Continuosly losing ground, over and over again, is going to bring many to question this one note strategy, as well as the competance of the MoD and the kremlin in general.

    Why allow the opponent to continue to recieve commands to do this.

    Your enemy is being well drawn in, now decapitate their command and control, blind them,surround them and slaugther them.

    When will the order be given i wonder?

    The Russian counter-advance will begin when the enemy has lost all capacity to advance further themselves. Or they have got to somewhere which Russia does not feel like giving up.
    Why interrupt them?
    The present strategy of allowing them to come to you and out of their fortifications is working perfectly well to minimize own losses while increasing enemy losses

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, Broski and Podlodka77 like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14642
    Points : 14777
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  JohninMK Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:35 pm

    This seems to be the UA tactics as Ukraine and NATO think, based of the resources they have at hand, they have found a winning formula, for now whilst Russia has to fight with one hand behind its back.

    Maybe they don't get it that the Russian tactics are the intentional implementation of modern fluid warfare.

    Logistics really start to become crucial with extended supply requirements. There are already reports of UA troops having to forage, potatoes and water specifically.

       The AFU is conducting several counter-offensives simultaneously, while the Russian command is trying to find an edge in defensive failures. Zaluzhny reported to the Office of the President that the Russian army creates almost no defensive redoubts, there are no minefields, and our pickups are able to penetrate 20-30 km deep into the front, which creates a tactical advantage and forces the enemy to retreat.

       https://t.me/rezident_ua/14377


    But it can work both ways, with the UA going fluid too. Just as the Russians are learning so to are NATO.

       [in Kherson] The Ukrainian armed forces want to repeat the success of the Izyum front. The tactics used are similar. They use REBs to jam communications at the front. Due to the technical backwardness of RF radios it is effective.

       Armored fist breaks through a gap in the defensive lines, and then highly mobile groups in pickups and armored vehicles (modern cavalry) rush into it.

       The groups are coordinated through high quality intelligence (drones/NATO satellites/EMS planes/reporter aircraft) and real-time communications. Given the archaic artillery coordination system of the Russian Armed Forces, such groups rarely come under fire due to their high mobility and constant change of positions.

       Some of the groups are equipped with light mortars to increase their fire effect. Some of the groups are equipped with man-portable air defence systems and their main objective is to hunt aircraft. Airborne forces are aware of this and therefore seldom decide to carry out bombing maneuvers, operating mainly at extremely long ranges.

       The main tactical objective is to half-encircle the enemy. Groups then hunker down and ambush the enemy. When the unit receives orders to move out of the half ring, it is caught in such ambushes. Everyone has seen the result of such ambushes on the video from Liman.


       https://t.me/ZeRada1/10382


    Last edited by JohninMK on Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:43 pm; edited 2 times in total

    rfan likes this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6651
    Points : 6741
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:38 pm

    thegopnik wrote:
    where is this quote from?

    Evgeniy Poddubny, as undersigned.

    JohninMK wrote:Not heard of the balls before, steel shards yes.
    TASS - Ukrainian army uses outlawed US weapons - on Monday Ukrainian forces attacked the city of Starobelsk with a US-made HIMARS multiple launch rocket system. The rocket was filled with shrapnel - tungsten balls.
    The rocket that hit a childcare center in Starobelsk was made in 2017.
    This is a confirmation that in defiance of all conventions the Americans continue to produce and use ammunition that is prohibited by international law.

    It is some propaganda bullshit John.
    Both sides are using fragmentation warheads and deliberate antipersonnel ones.
    Dozens of materials with Ukr using flachette ammo, including the civilian victims they killed in Bucha, and masqueraded for Russkie atrocities later on. Guardian cited the medical investigation results a long time ago.


    Last edited by ALAMO on Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, flamming_python, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, JohninMK, Sprut-B and like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  flamming_python Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:40 pm

    Also, these moron mercs from the US that were freed a fortnight ago

    Now crying about the torture they received in Russian/DNR prisons.
    Those being handcuffs and bed-bugs

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/10/01/alex-drueke-andy-huynh-russian-prisoners/

    Even in the comment section people are pointing out that Guantanamo Bay inmates had as bad or worse.

    Seriously though, I doubt those guys were mistreated at all. Or anyone else. One British merc that was captured was even treated and bandaged for a gunshot wound he suffered, by the same Russian soldiers who took him prisoner.
    These Americans looked absolutely fine while being interviewed in captivity. And why would Russia bother to try and give the impression of civilized treatment if it planned to release them at some point anyway?

    What I actually think is going on is all these ridiculous tales of being forced to call up random phone numbers in the US, etc.. are just made up by US intelligence.
    And these bumblers go along with it all and take part in the charade because they have to.
    Going to some foreign conflict zone as a merc is illegal in the US. As in Britain and in fact most countries.
    Now if you do decide to do it, even unofficially sanctioned with a hood and a wink by your national government as in the case here - you still have to keep in mind that you're going to be completely under the thumb of your own state and its intelligence agencies because you're officially breaking the law. So you better go along with whatever cock and bull story they ask you to corroborate when you get back, lest you end up prosecuted.
    A sneaky system to be sure but I wouldn't at all be surprised if its the case. Again, think cynically like some Washington empire-builder.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, Werewolf, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, JohninMK, Sprut-B and like this post

    ucmvulcan
    ucmvulcan


    Posts : 1064
    Points : 1064
    Join date : 2022-02-26

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  ucmvulcan Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:41 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    kvs wrote:The chicken little hysterics have no clue about the resource effort to secure every km of a 1200 km front.   They expect Russia to be exerting
    the same effort all along this line.  Instead Russian forces are doing the appropriate thing and controlling relevant territory while waves
    of Ukr cannon fodder expend themselves in PR "victories".   The armchair generals make up their own metrics of success and fail Russia
    for not meeting them.  


    I wonder what kind of fanboy remark you would make if the russians lost Kherson, not that I think they will but it would be funny to see the fanboys try to defend that one

    The largest settlement the Ukrainians have recaptured so far is Krasnyj Liman. Pre-war population - 20,000. And just a short advance from the front-line back in September.

    Quite a leap to go from that to Kherson, population nearly 300,000 and a regional capital.

    Why not suppose the Ukrainians will capture Donetsk, or hell Belgorod next?

    I think they could drive on Belgorod but they is gonna die if they try.

    GarryB likes this post

    Backman
    Backman


    Posts : 2601
    Points : 2613
    Join date : 2020-11-11

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  Backman Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:46 pm

    New Atlas

    When Russia advances, they do so at the expense of Ukrainian forces while preserving their own.

    When Ukraine advances they do so at the expense of Ukrainian forces while Russia preserves their own.

    Russians are not fighting for territory at this point in time - they are preserving their forces while destroying the finite reserves Ukraine has assembled for these large-scale offensives.

    Asking every day/hour about Kharkov, Lyman, Kherson - this village and that village - while ignoring the logistical and sustainment cliff Ukraine's forces are hurdling over means you don't get it and probably won't at this point.

    Meanwhile those panicking and in hysterics are rendering themselves in service of Western propaganda - creating anger, tension, division is the whole purpose of this offensive that otherwise is unsustainable and incapable of delivering "victory" militarily.

    GarryB, flamming_python, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, zepia, JohninMK and like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6651
    Points : 6741
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:50 pm

    ucmvulcan wrote:

    I think they could drive on Belgorod but they is gonna die if they try.  

    But this is what they are doing, if we cut off the propaganda and deliberated psyops carried in the sociopath media ... oh my bad, social media of course.
    AlfaT8
    AlfaT8


    Posts : 2461
    Points : 2452
    Join date : 2013-02-02

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  AlfaT8 Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:05 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:I know this isnt a football game, the strategy is clearly comes from the Syrian war, that being said.
    Continuosly losing ground, over and over again, is going to bring many to question this one note strategy, as well as the competance of the MoD and the kremlin in general.

    Why allow the opponent to continue to recieve commands to do this.

    Your enemy is being well drawn in, now decapitate their command and control, blind them,surround them and slaugther them.

    When will the order be given i wonder?

    The Russian counter-advance will begin when the enemy has lost all capacity to advance further themselves. Or they have got to somewhere which Russia does not feel like giving up.
    Why interrupt them?
    The present strategy of allowing them to come to you and out of their fortifications is working perfectly well to minimize own losses while increasing enemy losses

    Perhaps i have been watching too much Youjo Senki.
    I am hoping this is Russia's "Operation Revolving Door"

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Youjo_Senki_Tanya_Degurechaff_artwork_anime_girls_anime-1381303
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3116
    Points : 3118
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  Mir Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:14 pm

    ALAMO wrote:
    Ukro army consists of light forces driving pickups. ISIS-style at its best.
    Transport of troops on the battlefield is being carried by civilian buses. Taxis. Ambulances. Bloody school buses Shocked
    They are advancing in the M113 remembering 70s, hoping not to meet anything on the way.

    Well they do have this you know!
    A game changer for sure! What a Face

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Ukrs-c10

    GarryB, Werewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, ALAMO, Godric, Sprut-B and like this post

    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6651
    Points : 6741
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:18 pm

    Mir wrote:
    Well they do have this you know!
    A game changer for sure! What a Face

    Well, wouldn't laugh at having Mad Max on the side, you know ... scratch pwnd Laughing Laughing

    GarryB and Hole like this post

    zorobabel
    zorobabel


    Posts : 702
    Points : 700
    Join date : 2015-09-21

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  zorobabel Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:32 pm

    Current situation on the Kherson front. Looks like the AFU advanced about 50km in two days.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Photo_13
    Mir
    Mir


    Posts : 3116
    Points : 3118
    Join date : 2021-06-10

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  Mir Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:38 pm

    Well lets hope they waist most of their reserves on this effort. That would make Nikolayev a breeze in the coming weeks.

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza and Podlodka77 like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14642
    Points : 14777
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  JohninMK Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:44 pm

    This is interesting and concerning. It might apply here but I assume in all out war ECM would flood the area rendering it moot.

    Reasons of retreat at Kherson
    I know almost all of my units were in contact, the losses were small. The men fought like lions, but this time their fighting luck ran out…

    3. The guys on the ground are reporting en masse that our tactical insignia, i.e. "Z" and "V", had been applied to the enemy's equipment, causing confusion in the first hours of combat as the front collapsed.

    If this is true, it means that the enemy has an American network-centric battle management system, where all units on the battlefield are grid-linked and marked on computers, even at company level, let alone battalion-regiment level.

    Thus, even a company sergeant in a Humvee, BMP or T-64 can see on the screen where his own units are and where the others are, and he doesn't care what marks are on the armor. If this is so it is very bad, as it is a qualitatively new level of troops control.

    And our retreat is a consequence of losing the equation.


    https://t.me/MedvedevVesti/11560
    https://t.me/RSaponkov/3697
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  flamming_python Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:52 pm

    JohninMK wrote:This is interesting and concerning. It might apply here but I assume in all out war ECM would flood the area rendering it moot.

      Reasons of retreat at Kherson
    I know almost all of my units were in contact, the losses were small. The men fought like lions, but this time their fighting luck ran out…

    3. The guys on the ground are reporting en masse that our tactical insignia, i.e. "Z" and "V", had been applied to the enemy's equipment, causing confusion in the first hours of combat as the front collapsed.

    If this is true, it means that the enemy has an American network-centric battle management system, where all units on the battlefield are grid-linked and marked on computers, even at company level, let alone battalion-regiment level.

    Thus, even a company sergeant in a Humvee, BMP or T-64 can see on the screen where his own units are and where the others are, and he doesn't care what marks are on the armor. If this is so it is very bad, as it is a qualitatively new level of troops control.

    And our retreat is a consequence of losing the equation.


       https://t.me/MedvedevVesti/11560
       https://t.me/RSaponkov/3697

    Don't buy it, for a number of reasons.

    And even if this wunderwaffen battle management system is operating successfully - that doesn't really explain anything. All it really helps the Ukrainians to do is identify friend or foe from further away.
    That they're painted in Russian colours can cause confusion for sure (and is a war-crime), as it did in the Battle of the Bulge when that tactic was employed - but only initially. And Russian units have their own identification means and systems for determining who's theirs and who isn't.

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, JohninMK, Sprut-B, Hole and like this post

    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 14642
    Points : 14777
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  JohninMK Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:02 pm

    The optimist in me sees these advances as Pyrrhic victories.

    All these territories the AFU are capturing are soon going to become a trap for them. Once captured, the burden will be on the AFU to supply and defend these territories at all costs.

    Unlike the Russians who simply get out of the way, the AFU will probably stand and die. These AFU propaganda victories, gained at high cost.

    In a few weeks the RF could be moving back in, encircling the AFU and wiping them out.

    EDIT

    This is one of the best background explanations I have read on why things are being driven intentionally slowly by the Russians.

    "The way I keep looking at the Russia SMO in Ukraine is as part of the bigger civilization war going on and how the timing of activity in Ukraine has to fit in with the financial component of the war.

    I see the Russia/China axis as trying to not let empire have its war as cover as its financial system collapses.....timing is important and so keeping the Ukraine game going at a lower level gives time for financial collapse.

    I have no doubt that Russia has the ability to secure the regions it is operating in if it wanted to. But a bigger war is going on and the Ukraine SMO is just the most public facing part."

    GarryB, Big_Gazza, kvs and zardof like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 8988
    Points : 9050
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  flamming_python Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:24 pm

    Another thing I'm wondering is why the Americans would risk any such battle management system falling into Russian hands?

    It would consist of a receiver and transmitter at a minimum, but that's already a lot to risk - anyone who captures such a system will be able to reverse engineer it and determine its protocols and mode of operation.
    Given that it's a battle management system, supposedly, for troops on the ground - there is likely nothing too sensitive there, with processing being conducted remotely and the results only transmitted to local devices. But even that would be a risk to give away the secrets of no less than your electronic warfare capabilities, latest active-protective systems on tanks, and so on.
    avatar
    ALAMO


    Posts : 6651
    Points : 6741
    Join date : 2014-11-25

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  ALAMO Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:28 pm

    What "front"?

    Hole likes this post


    Sponsored content


    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27 - Page 21 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #27

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Apr 19, 2024 1:21 am