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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

    VARGR198
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    Post  VARGR198 Thu Jul 21, 2022 3:49 pm

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    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:01 pm

    GarryB wrote " Why do you think it needs to be urgent? There is no rush... HATO was in Afghanistan for 20 years to save it and still failed, Russian has barely started... " we can not compare the two situations easily . Ukraine is near peer adversary , increasingly supported by NATO , and able , though with a little delay , to start using complex Rocket system . It is an industrial country with nuclear technology and satellite tech . Russia was not supporting the Taliban against America in Afghanistan with weapons at all , unlike America now supplying Ukraine , against Russia . In Afghanistan America needed a long war , to satisfy the MIC . Russia is not driven by MIC .


    Also war is costing twenty billion Dollars per day for Russia . And many troops and possibly conscripts needed by Russia ; and further conscripts and using reserves were sanctioned recently . Huge cost of war , when reserves estimated at 650 billion USD . US alone spends ten times more on military , today heard they are sending some F16 . Did they think at first , send 777 or F16 ? No of course not . But they saw the slow pace , and lack of response , so they got hopeful and gathered around and built up the pressure slowly . They dream of a long proxy war . Weaken Russia and give it a boiling frog treatment . As I said , the side with the smaller resources , can not be the Turtle in the race .

    Good to see drones being used ( Lancet ) for use by Rockets and artillery . Although Himars is mobile and will need laser homing by bomber aircraft . Also Odessa operation is best done by marine landing , using landing craft , instead of amphibious Tank operation across side River estuaries . On the other side of every Estuary is a Ukraininan with a weapon . Tanks are also much more expensive than landing craft . Once landing zone is cleared , a landing can take place and city taken . There won't be enough Harpoons to destroy hundreds of thousands of landing craft moving fast across water . No need for large landing craft ship carriers . The landing craft can go from Crimea direct to Odessa , on own power . Satellite info useless by yanks . Tactics have no defence . A force of 30,000 infantry can travel on 1000 landing craft . Cost per craft about £ 10000 . Total cost 10 billion , half the total daily cost of war for Russia .

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_craft
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    Belisarius


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    Post  Belisarius Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:58 pm

    More Buryats on the move.
    https://t.me/mapsukraine/1064

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:04 pm

    nomadski wrote:GarryB wrote " Why do you think it needs to be urgent? There is no rush... HATO was in Afghanistan for 20 years to save it and still failed, Russian has barely started... " we can not compare the two situations easily . Ukraine is near peer adversary , increasingly supported by NATO , and able , though with a little delay , to start using complex Rocket system . It is an industrial country with nuclear technology and satellite tech . Russia was not supporting the Taliban against America in Afghanistan with weapons at all , unlike America now supplying Ukraine , against Russia . In Afghanistan America needed a long war , to satisfy the MIC . Russia is not driven by MIC .


    Also war is costing twenty billion Dollars per day for Russia . And many troops and possibly conscripts needed by Russia ; and further conscripts and using reserves were sanctioned recently . Huge cost of war , when reserves estimated at 650 billion USD . US alone spends ten times more on military , today heard they are sending some F16 . Did they think at first , send 777 or F16 ? No of course not . But they saw the slow pace , and lack of response , so they got hopeful and gathered around and built up the pressure slowly . They dream of a long proxy war . Weaken Russia and give it a boiling frog treatment . As I said , the side with the smaller resources , can not be the Turtle in the race .

    Good to see drones being used ( Lancet ) for use by Rockets and artillery . Although Himars is mobile and will need laser homing by bomber aircraft . Also Odessa operation is best done by marine landing , using landing craft , instead of amphibious Tank operation across side River estuaries . On the other side of every Estuary is a Ukraininan with a weapon . Tanks are also much more expensive than landing craft . Once landing zone is cleared , a landing can take place and city taken . There won't be enough Harpoons to destroy hundreds of thousands of landing craft moving fast across water . No need for large landing craft ship carriers . The landing craft can go from Crimea direct to Odessa , on own power . Satellite info useless by yanks . Tactics have no defence . A force of 30,000 infantry can travel on 1000 landing craft . Cost per craft about £ 10000 . Total cost 10 billion , half the total daily cost of war for Russia .

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_craft
    Maybe you want to check some of the numbers you quote again.🤣

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    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:09 pm

    I've expected good news on Iranian drones, but it seems that some people in Russian MIC and MOD really go out of their way to stop that. Pity, as several hundred drones would speed up operation.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:12 pm

    Belisarius wrote:More Buryats on the move.
    https://t.me/mapsukraine/1064

    T72B3 is in good supply

    Not sure why limb questioned this evidenced by video in July of mass T72b3 movement

    Ofc wishful thinking stipulates that T62 was for Russian forces, when the militia is better off using an easier platform for semi professional volunteers

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:12 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:I've expected good news on Iranian drones, but it seems that some people in Russian MIC and MOD really go out of their way to stop that. Pity, as several hundred drones would speed up operation.

    There are tons of drones, everyday we see lancet and Kub used

    What is the point of such a comment

    Why would Russia a premier producer of drones , use Iranian systems which no serviceman is trained on?

    The Russian army are professionally trained on domestic produced radio control modules and systems that are implemented across the forces and similar on systems like KUB, Lancet, Inokhodets, Orlan, and other such systems

    The controls and interface also use not only similar controls, but similar terminology and Cyrillic abbreviations

    So it makes no sense to do this

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:27 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    caveat emptor wrote:I've expected good news on Iranian drones, but it seems that some people in Russian MIC and MOD really go out of their way to stop that. Pity, as several hundred drones would speed up operation.

    There are tons of drones, everyday we see lancet and Kub used

    What is the point of such a comment

    Why would Russia a premier producer of drones , use Iranian systems which no serviceman is trained on?

    The Russian army are professionally trained on domestic produced radio control modules and systems that are implemented across the forces and similar on systems like KUB, Lancet, Inokhodets, Orlan, and other such systems

    The controls and interface also use not only similar controls, but similar terminology and Cyrillic abbreviations

    So it makes no sense to do this

    The footages of bigger drones like Orion or Forpost are sporadic. Very few have been released.

    Armed one present in very low numbers. IMO less than 10. Orion is barely delivered and Forpost-R that can use weapon entered service not long ago.

    Most of russian drones are orlan 10 and other very small zala uav.

    Suicide drones are being used but again in low amount.

    Russian are lagging behind in drones. Even if they have some good ones, they still lack numbers and strategy for them.

    The factory for Orion was finished only this year, few mo.th ago so the production is not yet at full speed. They will also have to solve issues concerning importation and replacement of electronics. That may need a reengibeering of the drones.

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    Odin of Ossetia
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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:32 pm

    Regular wrote:VDV even in Gostomel went in light, only with extra underwear, toothbrush and light mortars, ATGMs. BMD/Sprut would do nothing. Their light armour actually cause many avoidable attrition later on as they operated just like mech. infantry against much heavier and numerous enemy.

    Buggies, quads, ATMGs, self loading mortars on light vehicles, light aa systems, helicopter support -  that’s what the boys need. Strongest part of VDV is their infantry and that should be focus. No point to have troops using BMD in Ukraine when BMP-2/3 is much better vehicle. Nona/vena on other hand… these are very nice systems



    An example from the Second World War:


    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-SynowieMazowsza.html


    I think the specialty of the VDV should be to operate more like partisans or special forces troops.

    Turning them into "light armor troops" might not be the most optimal thing to do.



    nomadski
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    Post  nomadski Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:33 pm




    Caveat emptor wrote " Maybe you want to check some of the numbers you quote again.:rofl:" well I quoted the high number ( on purpose ) , I found on internet . The low number I found was 400 million USD per day . Still not cheap . Perhaps the reserves number of 650 billion USD is reliable ? Still with lowest estimate , the war can be funded for a couple of years only . Remember foreign currency reserves were confiscated , amount of 350 billion ? And revenue from oil and gas and Gold export also less or at best the same . So still economic reason favours a short war . Only a careless person would aim for a long war . You plan for a shortest war . But misfortune may extend the war .
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    Post  dionis Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:40 pm

    I know there's a website trying to keep track of Russian equipment losses, but what about Ukrainian ones? I heard there was one doing both? Does anyone know of any? Thanks!
    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:56 pm

    🇷🇺🇺🇦 46 oambr and 18 obmp - today these units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be missing about a hundred fighters.

    They tried to break through the river Ingulets, they were killed.

    We also note that the Armed Forces of Ukraine continue to increase the personnel in the industrial department of Nikolaev.

    ----

    Asshole hohols launched a bonzai charge into kherson

    Fucking disastrous

    This banderite fanaticism is unreal

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    Post  nomadski Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:18 pm

    Ark wrote " The controls and interface also use not only similar controls, but similar terminology and Cyrillic abbreviations " the point of obtaining Iranian drones , goes beyond immediate military advantages . It allows Iran and Russia to increase military cooperation that may increase in the future . The Russians ordered some French ships recently . They could have made these themselves . But considerations are of a bigger  political  nature . Writing on controls are not a problem .

    dionis wrote " I know there's a website trying to keep track of Russian equipment losses, but what about Ukrainian ones? I heard there was one doing both? Does anyone know of any? Thanks! " the Nazi regime should be seen as a proxy of NATO . Therefore losses of NATO should be calculated compared to their economy or reserves of military budget .



    Last edited by nomadski on Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
    caveat emptor
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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:19 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:

    There are tons of drones, everyday we see lancet and Kub used

    What is the point of such a comment

    Why would Russia a premier producer of drones , use Iranian systems which no serviceman is trained on?

    The Russian army are professionally trained on domestic produced radio control modules and systems that are implemented across the forces and similar on systems like KUB, Lancet, Inokhodets, Orlan, and other such systems

    The controls and interface also use not only similar controls, but similar terminology and Cyrillic abbreviations

    So it makes no sense to do this
    Point is that they dont have enough medium and heavy recon and strike platforms. And Iranian drones would be a quick and fast solutions untill they can ramp up enough domestic platforms.


    Last edited by caveat emptor on Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:21 pm

    nomadski wrote:


    Caveat emptor wrote " Maybe you want to check some of the numbers you quote again.🤣" well I quoted the high number ( on purpose )  , I found on internet . The low number I found was 400 million USD per day . Still not cheap . Perhaps the reserves number of 650 billion USD is reliable ? Still with lowest estimate , the war can be funded for a couple of years only . Remember foreign currency reserves were confiscated , amount of 350 billion ? And revenue from oil and gas and Gold export also less or at best the same . So still economic reason favours a short war . Only a careless person would aim for a long war . You plan for a shortest war . But misfortune may extend the war .
    I agree. I hope that war won't take longer than a year or, at most, 18 months. They can put that money to better use.

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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:36 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    There are tons of drones, everyday we see lancet and Kub used

    What is the point of such a comment
    Another point is that there were plenty signals lately that drone industry isn't close to where it should be. First thing Manturov commented on, when he was appointed on new function, Putin's comments on Rostec, etc.
    You're Russian. Try to find and read all the **** up around Altius drone that happened over the last decade and money wasted.

    Some people here act same way as Ukrainians. This war showed that Russian army has shortcomings and then you acknowledge them and rectify. Not pretend they don't exist and thump your chests. Leave that to Ukrainians.

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    Post  Ned86 Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:49 pm

    Russia is testing some new toys Smile
    it seems that they are 9М544 & 9М549 300mm guided rocket with 120km range.

    https://t.me/milinfolive/87457

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    Post  sepheronx Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:54 pm

    caveat emptor wrote:
    Arkanghelsk wrote:
    There are tons of drones, everyday we see lancet and Kub used

    What is the point of such a comment
    Another point is that there were plenty signals lately that drone industry isn't close to where it should be. First thing Manturov commented on, when he was appointed on new function, Putin's comments on Rostec, etc.
    You're Russian. Try to find and read all the **** up around Altius drone that happened over the last decade and money wasted.

    Some people here act same way as Ukrainians. This war showed that Russian army has shortcomings and then you acknowledge them and rectify. Not pretend they don't exist and thump your chests. Leave that to Ukrainians.

    The Russians are rectifying, hence why they now have 3 shift production for Orion drones at the new plant. Then of course Orlan and others.

    I suppose the Orion could act double as a heavier observation drone too while Russia waits.

    Although, maybe localize production of some heavier Iranian drones would have been better than forpost localized production.
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:56 pm

    I don't know where ISOS got his info about "10 orion"

    Johninmk showed 50 Orion were already in service

    Thats enough for more than several wars

    So where is the drone shortage?

    Again it's not a lack of equipment , people said this, then Kremlin launched thousands of missiles in 1 week

    Simply the military already has intel from other sources and has not considered necessary to increase the kind of drone missions that some are saying Russia needs to do

    I trust the MOD and General Staff in their assessments

    After all, they make decisions, not us

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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:02 pm

    sepheronx wrote:

    The Russians are rectifying, hence why they now have 3 shift production for Orion drones at the new plant. Then of course Orlan and others.

    I suppose the Orion could act double as a heavier observation drone too while Russia waits.

    Although, maybe localize production of some heavier Iranian drones would have been better than forpost localized production.

    I was thinking about purchasing most suited platforms and testing them in real war conditions. Iranians have been using drones extensively for 2 decades already. If they perform better than analog Russian platforms maybe choose to purchase manufacturing license. Also, that would solve short term needs at the front.
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:07 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 9 Screen88

    This was one post Johninmk has the Kronstadt post where it shows over 50 Orions in service

    So idk where there is a drone shortage

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    Post  kvs Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:36 pm



    Some Americans know that HIMARS is not any sort of wonder weapon.

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:50 pm

    nomadski wrote:...Also war is costing twenty billion Dollars per day for Russia...

    Have you been doing acid lately?

    At 20 billion per day we would have had world peace ages ago

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    Post  limb Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:51 pm

    Whydid the Russian MOD habe no problems with license producing an Israeli drone, but theyre so apprehensive qbout using iranian drones? Is there a jew lobby trying to firce russian soldiers not to use Iranian weapons?

    Why was the Russian MoD also ok with buying canon cameras for the orlan?

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:56 pm

    Arkanghelsk wrote:....
    Asshole hohols launched a bonzai charge into kherson

    Fucking disastrous

    This banderite fanaticism is unreal

    Excellent

    This is what you want them to do

    Let them do your job for you


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