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74 posters

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:24 am

    VARGR198 wrote:

    Everything in that country is for sale

    No surprise that Zelensky tried to buy off his own chief of staff

    Unfortunately for Zelensky, turns out his chief of staff has already been bought by somebody else

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, LMFS, Hole, Mir and like this post

    flamming_python
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:29 am

    lyle6 wrote:T-72B gets its paint chipped by Javelin:


    What a POS
    And I'm being fair here. Javelin had plenty of chances to shine. Didn't seize even one of them.

    Remember those pagoda-like constructions the Russian military welded on top of their T-72s in a bid for protection against the Javelins?

    Didn't see any of those anymore after the first few weeks. It's like they worked out that the Javelin poses no threat anyway so might as well take those contraptions down


    Last edited by flamming_python on Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB, d_taddei2, Big_Gazza, kvs, VARGR198, Hole, lyle6 and like this post

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:59 am

    Werewolf wrote:
    Airbornewolf wrote:
    Kiev International legionnaire squad refuses order to loot city

    That "Colonel" is polish guy by name and by how he speaks "russian". He is a foreigner, polish merc. That is not even Ukrainian which borrows roughly 50/50 russian and polish language. He said several phrases that are not in ukrainian and not with "ukrainian" accent which is just the Russian way to pronounce certain words and phrases.

    Especially at the End where he said "No, no discussion"  he says it not in Ukrainian but in polish "Ne, ne ma obsuzhadnie". The  "Ne, ne ma" is polish with a polish accent however he tried to speak russian  by using the word "obsuzhdanie" which means discussion.

    He is a polish mobster of polish mafia and was involved of several mysterious "suicides" of unwanted people.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 1660826181b767273d788cb11b50290e

    Foreign Legionnaires and Ukrainian soldiers along with many civilians have complained about his inhumane nature. Female medical stuff was raped and gropped by him, soldiers shot for questioning his orders and like in this video foreign mercs were complaining about his orders to loot and torture.

    Quite a personality that merc

    Apologies for the source

    https://kyivindependent.com/investigations/suicide-missions-abuse-physical-threats-international-legion-fighters-speak-out-against-leaderships-misconduct

    Suicide missions, abuse, physical threats: International Legion fighters speak out against leadership’s misconduct
    August 17, 2022 11:00 pmby Anna Myroniuk and Alexander Khrebet

    Suicide missions, abuse, physical threats: International Legion fighters speak out against leadership’s misconductFighters of the International Legion accuse some of the commanders of their unit of arms and goods theft, sexual harassment, assault, and sending unprepared soldiers on reckless missions. (Illustration: Karolina Gulshani)

    Disclaimer: The Kyiv Independent is publishing this investigation to shed light on the alleged abuse of power in the leadership of one wing of the International Legion – a legion created for foreign fighters dedicated to defending Ukraine as part of the Territorial Defense Forces. The members of the Legion’s unit say that they reported their commanders’ misconduct to Ukrainian law enforcement, the parliament, and President Volodymyr Zelensky’s Office, but saw no proper reaction and thus turned to journalists as a last resort. Soldiers who pointed at the problems within this unit of the Legion claim they received threats for speaking up. For their safety, we do not disclose their identities.

       Top findings:

           The leadership of the intelligence-run wing of the International Legion is allegedly implicated in various violations, including abuse, theft, and sending soldiers unprepared on reckless missions.
           One of the unit’s commanders and a frequent subject of the soldiers’ complaints is an alleged former member of a criminal organization from Poland, wanted at home for fraud. In the Legion’s unit, he is involved in coordinating military operations and logistics.
           The legion’s fighters accuse him of abusing power by ordering soldiers to loot shops, threatening soldiers with a gun, and sexually harassing the legion’s female medics.

    In early May, a lieutenant from Brazil arrived in Ukraine to join the International Legion following President Volodymyr Zelensky’s call to “citizens of the world” to come and help defend Ukraine.

    He thought his vast experience in the Brazilian army had prepared him for pretty much any task.

    Yet he was neither ready to carry out suicide missions by order of his command, nor to tolerate orders to loot and steal.

    As a platoon commander of the International Legion, he was ordered to do just that.


    The Brazilian officer recalls his subordinates saying, before resigning from the legion: “We came here to help these people to fight for this country, against this invasion. We didn’t come here to do exactly what f*cking Russian people do when they’re on Ukrainian soil.”

    The Kyiv Independent’s investigation reveals endemic problems in one of the International Legion’s wings that is overseen by Ukraine’s intelligence.

    Some of the unit’s commanders are implicated in arms and goods theft, sexual harassment, assault, and sending unprepared soldiers on reckless missions, according to multiple sources.

    The allegations in this story are based on interviews with legionnaires, written testimonies of over a dozen former and current members of the legion, and a 78-page report they’ve put together about problems within this particular unit of the International Legion.

    For about four months, foreign fighters have been knocking on the doors of high offices asking for help. The report was filed to the parliament, and written testimonies were sent to Zelensky’s office. Alyona Verbytska, the president’s commissioner for soldiers’ rights, confirmed she had received legionnaires’ complaints and passed them on to law enforcement.

    But authorities, soldiers say, are reluctant to solve the issue.

    Failed leadership?

    The International Legion, soldiers say, consists of two wings. Ukraine’s Ground Forces oversee one. The Defense Ministry’s Directorate for Intelligence, known under its Ukrainian acronym GUR, coordinates the other.

    The allegations in this report concern the GUR-run wing of the Legion. At its strongest, this unit had up to 500 people, and comprised about one-third of the International Legion, according to the Kyiv Independent's sources among the soldiers.

    GUR did not respond to the Kyiv Independent's request for comment by publication time.  

    According to members of the intelligence-run wing of the Legion, their commanders report directly to the head of GUR, Kyrylo Budanov, who Zelensky also appointed to head the intelligence committee in the president’s office in late July.

    Officially, the GUR wing of the Legion is run by major Vadym Popyk. However, he is not running the unit on his own.

    The power is in the hands of a few people: Popyk’s right hand, major Taras Vashuk (referred to by soldiers as “young Taras”), an intelligence officer in his late 20s or early 30s, according to the foreign fighters; Vashuk’s uncle, also Taras (referred to as “old” Taras) and also an intelligence officer; and 60-year old Sasha Kuchynsky.

    “They are like best buds,” an American legionnaire told the Kyiv Independent of the three men.

    Young Taras, old Taras, and Sasha run the operations of the unit. They send soldiers on missions and coordinate the intelligence wing of the Legion’s work. Sasha is also in charge of logistics and supplies.

    The legionnaires accuse the trio of various wrongdoings. For the two Tarases, the major complaints concern them sending soldiers on suicide missions.

    An American soldier interviewed by the Kyiv Independent described a couple of missions that took place near the southern city of Mykolaiv, one of the war’s hot spots.

    Russian troops discovered their squad’s position and started to shell it heavily. The rest of the troops retreated from the secondary position behind them, leaving the squad to hold the front line alone, with no backup.

    “We were literally left (behind) and they didn't want to evacuate us,” the soldier said. His fellow soldier, Scott Sibley, was killed, while three others were severely injured on that mission.

    Shortly after the squad escaped the shelling, another group from the same unit was ordered to take the same position.

    “We told the commander those positions were discovered by Russians… If we go back there, we are all dead,” the American soldier told the Kyiv Independent.

    The older Taras did not listen and sent another group to the very same place, the soldier said. The story repeated itself, but this time with four killed, multiple injured, and one taken captive. The captive soldier, Andrew Hill, now faces a fake “trial” and possible execution in Russian-occupied Donetsk on accusations of being a mercenary.


    Sasha Kuchynsky’s actions, however, stand out in their breadth of alleged wrongdoing.

    Apart from sending fighters to die, legionnaires said, Kuchynsky forced them to help him loot stores. Fighters told the Kyiv Independent that he is also a heavy drinker who abuses his subordinates.

    Another soldier, an American Jew, told the Kyiv Independent that Jewish soldiers experienced antisemitism from Kuchynsky.  He emphasized that he did not encounter it from anyone else in the Ukrainian military.

    The soldier also says Kuchynsky demanded to have a share of the gear and equipment that the soldier bought for his close peers from the legion. When the soldier refused to give it away, Kuchynsky pointed a gun at him.

    “And then Sasha (Kuchynsky) just started yelling, screaming,” the soldier recalled. "He said, ‘I know there's stuff here. Give me your stuff’.”

    “And in front of the translator, he raises his weapon at me. And I was like: ‘You're gonna shoot me? You're gonna shoot me.’ And then there's like this kind of look of, honestly, remorse, but like ‘Oh, f*ck’ and he put down his gun,” the soldier went on.

    He said that he once met a legionnaire at whom Kuchynsky had also raised a gun.

    According to another American legionnaire, Kuchynsky also harassed female medics in their unit, using sexually suggestive language with them. According to the American soldier, the legion’s medics complained, but nobody did anything about it. The foreign medic he knew that was harassed by Kuchynsky is no longer with the Legion and has since left Ukraine, he said.

    When in trouble, legionnaires say, Kuchynsky would turn to Taras Vashuk for a cover-up.

    “Sasha would call Taras and get confirmation that he can do whatever he wants to do. And Taras would constantly back him up,” a Scandinavian soldier told the Kyiv Independent.

    However, to date, Kuchynsky remains in his de-facto commanding position in the Legion despite his subordinates’ complaints and despite the fact that, according to Ukrainian law, he can’t as a foreigner hold executive roles in the army.

    When confronted with legionnaires’ accusations, Kuchynsky refused to address them.

    “It’s up to the Military Prosecutor’s Office to address these questions,” he told the Kyiv Independent over the phone. “No comments. I’m busy.”

    He then hung up.

    An investigation by the Military Prosecutor’s Office wouldn’t be the first time Kuchynsky has had trouble with the law.

    According to the Kyiv Independent’s sources inside the legion, Sasha Kuchynsky is not the man’s real name. He is allegedly Piotr Kapuscinski, a former member of a criminal organization from Poland, who fled to Ukraine after several run-ins with the law.

    Upon request from the Kyiv Independent, our colleagues from the Bellingcat investigative journalism group ran an image comparison of the photos of Sasha Kuchynsky, provided by the legionnaires, and photos of Piotr Kapuściński from Polish media. The results support the conclusion that the photos are of the same person.

    In Poland, Kapuscinski is wanted for fraud and faces up to eight years in prison. According to Polish Gazeta Wyborcza, he has previously served time.

    He fled Poland in 2014, and resurfaced in Ukraine two years later. He was investigated in Ukraine for aggravated robbery and sexual assault in October 2016 but was only charged with robbery. In November 2016, he was detained and spent over a year behind bars.

    Warsaw asked Kyiv to extradite Kapuscinski in 2017, but Ukrainian authorities said they would first try him themselves.

    He resurfaced again in May 2021, when law enforcement searched his vehicle where they found a semi-automatic pistol and bullets and proceeded to search a building that he used, finding explosives. He faced up to seven years in prison for possession of illegal weapons but was almost immediately released on bail of nearly $2,500.

    After the all-out Russian war broke out in February, Kapuscinski joined the military, at which point the courts suspended his case and then paid back his bail in May 2022.

    His criminal past did not prevent Kapuscinski from getting into the Legion and obtaining an executive role there. The legislation says all foreign recruits must go through background checks before joining the Ukrainian army. It’s not clear whether a criminal record counts as a deal breaker.

    In Ukraine, citizens can serve in the military if they have ongoing criminal proceedings or a spent conviction. The law, however, doesn’t refer to foreigners. So when a Ukrainian court suspended Kapuscinski’s case and paid back his bail, it was applying the same norm that applies to Ukrainians.

    Piotr Kapuscinski, known in the International Legion as Sasha Kuchynsky, is seen standing at the railway station wearing a Ukrainian military uniform and a colonel’s epaulet. (Courtesy of the Legion's fighters)

    In the Legion, Kuchynsky (Kapuscinski) calls himself a colonel and wears a colonel’s epaulet, according to the soldiers’ testimonies and the photographs of Kuchynsky the legionnaires provided to the Kyiv Independent. In fact, foreigners are only allowed to serve in Ukraine’s Armed Forces in the lower ranks, as privates, sergeants, and petty officers.

    Since the start of the year, the man who calls himself Sasha Kuchynsky has allegedly gone from a criminal suspect on bail to a free man and de-facto commander in a high-profile Ukrainian military unit.  

       Polish past: Broda, the gangster

       According to reports in Polish media, in Poland, Piotr Kapuscinski is known as “Broda” (Beard), an influential former member of the Pruszków gang, once the largest mafia in the country.

       He was the right-hand man of the group’s inner leadership, "Wanka" and "Malizna," and laundered money for them, according to Mariusz Kaminski, a vice president of the Law and Justice party and currently Interior Minister of Poland and a coordinator of Poland’s secret services.

       Polish media reported that he allegedly avoided at least 71 charges, including kidnapping for ransom, by cooperating with law enforcement as a “crown witness” in 2009 in the case focusing on the Pruszkow gang.

       Some time around 2010-2011, Kapuscinski testified against the murderers of Marek Papala, the Polish police chief, assassinated in 1998. Kapuscinski reportedly confessed that he had assisted the two killers, a Russian and a Belarusian, by helping them to rent an apartment in Poland.

       Following his testimonies in “various cases against organized crime,” at least 20 people, including the bosses and other members of the Pruszkow gang, were charged with participation in organized crime. Nine were sentenced while the cases against Kapuscinski were suspended, according to Polish media reviewed by the Kyiv Independent.

       In February 2020, he was stripped of the "crown witness" status, in part, for failing to appear in court and when called upon to appear at the prosecutor's office.

    For his alleged wrongdoings in the International Legion, Kuchynsky has already been questioned multiple times.

    First, by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) after threatening one of the American soldiers with a gun. According to the soldier, Kuchynsky didn’t face any consequences.

    Then, by the Military Prosecution Office following other legionnaires’ complaints against him, according to the Kyiv Independent’s law enforcement sources. The complaints alleged abuse of power, fraud, and assault. Kuchynsky denied the accusations and kept his job. The investigation, however, is ongoing.

    Sent to die

    The probe into Sasha Kuchynsky, among other episodes, concerns him sending soldiers on what they call a suicide mission in Sievierodonetsk, a key city in Luhansk Oblast that Russian troops seized in late June.

    According to the Brazilian lieutenant who spoke to the Kyiv Independent, Kuchynsky’s orders were inconsistent.

    At first, the Brazilian’s unit spent two weeks preparing for a demining mission in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, a southern region.

    In early June, a few days into the mission, they were suddenly moved to another location. Kuchynsky ordered them to go to Sievierodonetsk in the eastern Luhansk Oblast and hold a position close to enemy lines.

    Going into one of the war’s main hotspots was very different from a demining mission. That wouldn't have been a problem if they were prepared for it, the Brazilian officer said, but they weren’t.

    “We've been two weeks preparing these guys with all the type of training and metal detectors and anti mines…and now you're going to send us to the industrial zone to the urban type of combat. Sasha, this is crazy,” the legionnaire recalls telling his commander.

    “I understand. I am with you there, but that’s the order,” Kuchynsky reportedly replied.

    Fighters of the International Legion accuse some of their commanders of sending them on so-called suicide missions unprepared and with no information about the location of the friendly and enemy troops. (Illustration: Karolina Gulshani)

    The Brazilian lieutenant started planning the operation in Sievierodonetsk, but neither Kuchynsky nor Taras Vashuk, the other commander, gave him any information – which he said they were supposed to – about the situation on the ground. By then, Sievierodonetsk was a center of heavy fighting. Ukrainian troops would retreat from the city a couple of weeks later.

    “A lot of questions asked were not answered, like where friendly troops were,” the Brazilian officer said.

    Only later did he learn that the previous group sent on this very mission came under friendly fire by Ukrainian soldiers. Another Brazilian legionnaire was killed and they had to retreat.

    “We got into the field without knowing what was going on,” the officer said.

    “I realized those motherf*ckers won’t let us plan,” he said of Sasha and Taras. “They would just bring us into the middle of the place, dump us there to fight, dump us there to die.”

    Upon arrival, a Ukrainian special forces serviceman filled them in. He told the Brazilian that Ukrainian troops are inside the buildings along their way, but they have no established communication with them so they shoot at everyone who breaks through.

    “What the f*ck? How are we gonna pass? These (Ukrainian) guys are gonna shoot at us?” the Brazilian said he asked.


    “Yeah, that's right. We need to hide,” the Ukrainian soldier reportedly told him.

    They spent four days there instead of the planned two. They ran out of food and water and asked for rotation, but Kuchynsky, who sent them there, wouldn’t reply.

    “Nobody slept, everybody's super tired. Some of my guys are dehydrated, and one injured guy. And we stood there. That’s when Sasha (Kuchynsky) went off the radar,” he said.

    Soon someone they didn’t know got in touch via radio saying a new group was on their way. The soldiers arrived but then left in the middle of the night without saying anything. The next day, another squad came in to replace them.

    The Brazilian believes that Kuchynsky had no plan for their extraction.

    “A bunch of wannabes, playing with people's lives,” he said of the unit’s leadership. His account of suicide missions is confirmed by other soldiers – both in their conversations with the Kyiv Independent and in their official testimonies they filed to the President’s Office.

    The Brazilian platoon leader and a couple of his soldiers got injured but survived. After finally getting evacuated from Sievierodonetsk, most of the squad fighters decided to quit the Legion.

    “We’re not f*cking staying. We're leaving,” the lieutenant recalled them saying.

    The team of the Brazilian fighter is not the only one that left the Legion, disappointed.

    Foreigners quitting the International Legion due to poor organization, lack of equipment, and indefinite contracts have already made headlines across international media.

    Shopping mall plunder

    Around the time of the Battle of Sievierodonetsk in early June, the legionnaires received a controversial task from Kuchynsky: to drive from their base to a local shopping mall in the front-line city of Lysychansk in Luhansk Oblast and take merchandise from the shops.

    “I directly heard Sasha Kuchynsky’s order to the soldiers of my unit to break into the shopping center, collect the furniture and electronics as soon as possible and collect all possible valuables along the way,” a Canadian fighter wrote in his statement following the incident.

    Fighters of the International Legion accuse some commanders of giving them orders to loot a shopping mall. (Illustration: Karolina Gulshani)

    According to the soldiers’ official testimonies obtained by the Kyiv Independent, “Sasha” also told subordinates to take whatever they liked: shoes, women's clothes, jewelry, watches, and electronics.

    Many soldiers obeyed as they come from professional military backgrounds where they don’t question superiors’ commands.

    “(Normally) you should say ‘yes, sir’ and get it done. Because you believe that your commander knows what he's asking you to do…You just assume that this action is legal, and you're going to go for it. You’re not supposed to question it,” the Brazilian legionnaire told the Kyiv Independent.

    “Locals saw how we loaded the furniture which made me very uncomfortable. It felt like we were robbing them. I didn’t come to Ukraine for this,” a testimony of a Columbian soldier reads.  

    “There were local residents near the shopping mall, one of whom, seeing this, shouted insults, and the others looked at us with reproach and condemnation. I don't know whether it was legal or not but I felt ashamed to carry out the order of Sasha Kuchynsky and take away furniture and valuables from stores during hostilities and in front of local residents who suffered from the war,” a French legionnaire wrote in his statement.

    Some soldiers refused to follow the order.

    In a video obtained by the Kyiv Independent, some foreigners can be heard in the shopping mall questioning the legality of “Sasha’s” orders.

    “We will not be implicated by any means as looters. We will not stand for this,” an English-speaking soldier is heard saying.

    He then tells the crowd that he will not stay in front of the stolen goods and is going downstairs to wait until the car picks him up and drives back to the base. “Sasha” becomes angry at the soldiers' refusal to carry out his orders.

    “Listen, (do not set) conditions for me. This is an order, to stay here and wait for the commander. This is an order. You get it? An order. This is the army,” the Polish commander says in broken Russian.

    “I do not find that order lawful. We do not see this as reasonable,” the soldier replies.

    The video ends with the soldier saying to his peers: “Let’s go downstairs, guys. We are not playing these games.”

    According to the legionnaires, Kuchynsky ordered similar lootings on multiple occasions and Ukrainian soldiers were ordered to participate as well.

    The legionnaires don’t know where the items were sent to. In a video obtained by the Kyiv Independent, one soldier is heard saying in Russian that the furniture and electronics taken from the mall were for their unit’s headquarters in Kyiv.

    Theft allegations

    According to the legionnaires, they regularly witnessed what they believe were suspicious arms movements.

    “The car is coming, the cars going, the boxes of weapons coming, the boxes of weapons going,” one of the American soldiers said.

    Despite the legion’s armory rooms being loaded with all sorts of heavy weaponry and ammunition, the soldiers say they often didn’t end up in their hands.  

    “During my stay in Sievierodonetsk, a civilian vehicle painted in camouflage containing thermal imagers arrived,” a Columbian soldier wrote in his testimony. “They were not distributed among the soldiers due to their alleged absence. Meanwhile, Sasha Kuchynsky proposed to the military personnel of the International Legion to buy these thermal imagers for $300.”

    “I think, Sasha Kuchynsky artificially created the impression of a shortage of some ammunition to illegally enrich himself by providing it to fighters (for money) as if from himself,“ another fighter from Columbia wrote in his testimony.

    According to him, two of his fellow soldiers damaged their hearing due to the lack of headphones that he knew were in their armory, under Kuchynsky’s control.

    Soldiers say Kuchynsky would take away part of the ammunition they would independently receive from volunteers and donors. They called it the “Sasha tax.”

    “So you have to give Sasha what he wants. And then you can give (the rest) of this stuff to your guys,” one of the American soldiers said. “Everything just seems like a cover-up. It's very strange. It feels like an (organized) business."

    The same happened to another American soldier. His shipment arrived at the base while he was on a mission. When he returned, some parcels were gone.

    “It was labeled for our team. So basically, simple as that, half of the stuff wasn't there.”

    Waiting for solution


    The foreign soldiers say they did not want to publicize the crisis in the International Legion and tried to solve the issue behind the scenes.

    They first complained to their commanders, then lawmakers, and finally went as far as the President’s Office. Since the Legion was created upon Zelensky’s order, foreign fighters counted on his administration's support, but did not get much help from there, they said.

    Alyona Verbytska, the president’s commissioner for soldiers’ rights, told the Kyiv Independent she had informed her superiors about the legionnaires’ complaints. She did not elaborate on who exactly she reported to.

    In the President’s Office, two people oversee the Legion for Zelensky, according to the Kyiv Independent’s sources close to the Office. They are Vitaliy Martyniuk, a national security expert, and Roman Mashovets, deputy head of the Office and former employee of the GUR intelligence agency.

    The President’s Office did not reply to the Kyiv Independent’s request for comment before publication.

    Complaining to the President’s Office didn’t work out. Things even got worse, the soldiers said, as those who sounded an alarm about the Legion’s leadership started to feel under pressure and receive threats.

    Meanwhile, many professional members left the unit due to alleged mismanagement and problems with paperwork. The Legion failed to provide some of them with official contracts.

    “There were really good special (forces) guys. I mean, not from the regular military. A lot of special (forces) guys literally just said: ‘No, thank you. We can’t work like that anymore’,” an American soldier said.

    Those who stayed in the unit want it to keep helping Ukraine to stand against Russia. To do it effectively, they believe, the Legion must be reformed under new leadership.

    “I have a very, very, very pleasant experience with everybody in the Ukrainian military outside of Sasha and Tarases,” one of the American soldiers said.

    “I've always just kind of kept my mouth shut. Just because people like Sasha really discredit all of this,” he said.

    kvs, Hole and Broski like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:40 am

    South African delegation was present at the Army 2022 forum, headed by their defense minister

    And I came across this somewhat jaded article in a South African newspaper; which seems to be banning Russian IPs but I just connected through a proxy anyhow

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2022-08-17-russia-welcomes-friendly-state-sas-support-but-do-we-also-support-invasion-bombardment-and-war-crimes-in-ukraine/

    But what's really funny is the desperately butthurt comment section. Granted by how smitten they are with the Western talking points on the Ukraine, I presume these are the fellas who were not part of Nelson Mandela's support base if you catch my drift.

    Jeroen Dubbelman
    18 August 2022 at 06:11

    It would be very interesting to understand what percentage of people in South Africa support our minister Thandi. I have a feeling it is a lot less than 50%! Of course more than 50% live in such squalor they would not care.

    This relationship between the ANC and Russia is a concern as it will affect the real Western investments we receive.

    Viva! A better life for all……….ANC elite.

       Wendy Dewberry
       18 August 2022 at 07:48

       I agree. The average decent citizen of SA is not aligned with Russia after the Ukraine war invasions. Proof that our government makes decisions based on money rather than ethics. But is any political institution anywhere in the world any different in that regard ?

    Sheda Habib
    18 August 2022 at 06:38

    Mr Jones

       Jeremy Hollmann
       18 August 2022 at 08:31

       Something is happening and you don’t know what is, do you Mr Jones?
           Sheda Habib
           18 August 2022 at 17:14

           If Daily Maverick did not play the game of pleasing its colonialist audience then you would have read my comment leading up to Mr Jones.
           Watch Mr Jones, the full movie, on You Tube

    Miles Japhet
    18 August 2022 at 06:47

    So attacking a sovereign country, where the majority of its citizens are happy with the status quo, is OK?
    Commentary on the Wests’ support of the Ukraine is irrelevant – their support should not have been needed in the first place.
    The ANC is hypocritical – their heads are buried in the past.
    Malcolm McManus
    18 August 2022 at 06:53

    We do not want to get in the middle of this conflict between the East and the West. Notably very recent visits from delegations from both America and Russia to African countries including South Africa are most likely aimed at involvement in African affairs and both countries have hidden agendas. Ukraine most certainly would have been a talking point. Any war should be condemned. We do not want to be taking sides in any wars. This war is far more about the Eastern and Western governments capitalist objectives than about Ukraine itself. Ukraine is one of the countries globally that finds itself as a battleground in the middle. Africa is rapidly getting itself involved in the middle of another cold war and this must be avoided at all costs.
    Willem Boshoff
    18 August 2022 at 07:06

    The ANC, much like Mugabe, has a deep seated resentment against the West which poisons their judgement and causes them to turn a blind eye to atrocities. The comrades are still very much comrades and the expansion of NATO is a thorn in their sides. Russia’s nuclear arsenal safeguards them against any severe military action from NATO, but I guess “feeling threatened” will be a good a reason as any to invade a sovereign state when your war is an ideological one. Shame on the ANC.

       Christopher Bedford
       18 August 2022 at 08:21

       Shame indeed. The ANC does a lot of things that make me shake my head in despair but this makes me *angry*. Just because the commies supported the struggle they feel some kind of solidarity with Russia – not even the same country, and certainly no longer communist. And the remarks by Shoigu are exactly what commentators said SA’s “neutrality” would lead to: Russia’s belief that support – by any country – is validation of their illegal, immoral position on Ukraine.
           Ludwig Braum
           18 August 2022 at 10:08

           Don‘t forget that both Russia and Ukraine were part of that Soviet Union, which „helped“ with the struggle.

    Sergio De Alessi
    18 August 2022 at 08:03

    Putin’s Russia, in true Soviet style, the DNA is the same, is a putrid stinking swamp of lies, propaganda, misinformation and deception. Add mass murder and state sponsored violence and repression as well. They are masters of denial, evil and are hideous beyond words. Only the most wayward, idiotic and morally bankrupt would believe such crap and governments that are attending are a veritable gang of outcasts. They talk about sovereignty, nations charting their own course etc – the hypocrisy and double standards are astounding when they are conducting a genocidal murderous illegal and unjustified war against a neighbour wanting the same. NATO is not prolonging the war, they are assisting a nation fight for its freedom and independence. The odious vile Putin expects and demands carte blanche to do as he pleases, as if he has Divine right to restore his lost empire, which added no value to any nation and was kept in control through violence, retribution and murder. Today is Ukraine, tomorrow is Moldavia, Estonia etc. This wicked little nothing-nik of a KGB thug, with so much blood on his hands, must go back to his country and get lost forever, hopefully 6ft under in shit-hole where he belongs. Eternal shame on the SA government for its blind support and participation. This country can and will only move forward once this abominable party that it has become is consigned to the rubbish heap or even more appropriately, the sewerage where it belong. Betrayal/treason!

       Bryan Shepstone
       18 August 2022 at 08:35

       Hear, hear! 👍
           Marilyn
           18 August 2022 at 09:25

           Agree 100% with you Sergio. The ANC seem to have completely forgotten that they are a party that liberated South Africa. Now, they side with the very worst human rights abusers in the world. My son lives in America and I have friends and family that live in the UK. If the ANC thinks that I , as a South African citizen, will join Russia in any Third World War against the West, they truly are living in a delusional world. The simple equation West= Colonialism is so stupid and so devoid of any reasoned intellectual thinking that it beggars belief.
               Gerrie Pretorius Pretorius
               18 August 2022 at 13:00

               Marilyn, the anc only ‘liberated’ the masses for the benefit of a few deployee cadres eating at the trough of riches supplied by the taxpayers of SA. They have never been an organisation of integrity. Look at their ‘bible’ the NDR and it is clear that destruction of the country for the benefit of a few has always been the goal.
           Stephen Fish
           18 August 2022 at 11:49

           Agreed!
           Stephen Fish
           18 August 2022 at 11:54

           Agree with you Bryan!!
       Tim Price
       18 August 2022 at 14:42

       You’ve set it out perfectly, well done.

    Jeff Hume
    18 August 2022 at 09:09

    The ANC’s kowtowing to Russian aggression should embarrass all South Africans and should be embarrassing to the ANC, as Putin’s Russia and its oligarchs is the best example of White Monopoly Capital on the planet.
    John Forbes
    18 August 2022 at 09:11

    What a sad, sad country we have become, being a lap dog to Russia, which country has retreated back into the cold, and beyond, where the USSR once was.

    It is interesting to see who is also at the Russian conference from Africa. Burundi, Cameroon, Guinea, Mali, Sudan, Uganda, Chad and Ethiopia. Are they the company that we want to be aligned with. All the major African players are absent and with good reason. And to think that South Africa was once seen as the powerhouse of Africa. How low we have sunk!

    One thing is for sure, the ANC does no longer represents the majority of South Africans, but they are too blind to see.
    Fran Gebhardt
    18 August 2022 at 09:19

    Is there a word for sabotage of the country by its own government?

       Helen Swingler
       18 August 2022 at 16:47

       Treason.

    colleen
    18 August 2022 at 10:12

    Well I guess if we get cheap fuel from Russia and our tame oligarch pays the ANC Provident Fund payments, well who gives a damn! Any South African with half a brain is hanging their head in shame. This is just disgraceful.
    Keith Scott
    18 August 2022 at 10:14

    Please forget all the analysis and angst. It’s all about the money that the ANC receives from Russia. It seems that some journalists and readers have forgotten a tidy little arrangement as outlined in the Amabhungane article in the DM on 9 May: “ANC’s manganese ‘gold’ mine joint venture with sanctioned Russian oligarch”
    Mariella Norman
    18 August 2022 at 10:34

    I wonder if, and how much, the ANC got paid by Putin or an oligarch to attend this conference. Maybe our sleuth journalists can follow the money.
    Neil Parker
    18 August 2022 at 11:22

    I cannot find a single mitigating factor to justify our government’s stance. If times were different and this government was in power when Hitler invaded Poland , they would surely have trotted out the same garbage that they are now. The ANC has delusions of grandeur if they somehow think that by pandering (I can think of less flattering words!) to Russia, they can become players on the world stage.

    Thandi Modise a “prominent military commander”. Oh please! Perhaps more pertinently, has the ANC’s RET faction staged something of a palace coup because I am sure (or at least would hope!) there are saner heads within the ranks ?
    Concerned . .
    18 August 2022 at 11:40

    I knew the ANC was out of touch with the SA people, but this is like they are living on the moon….. I am honestly embarrassed by the minister’s speech and physical presence in Russia. In the broader sense this is a struggle between autocracy and democracy, and the ANC, the leader of our democratic South Africa are showing what style of rule they prefer………… the whole country should be very worried
    brian@echosa.com
    18 August 2022 at 15:13

    A completely one sided article with very little in the way of historical context. Regurgitated Main Stream Media `news` and `morality`.
    After all what is NATO doing along Russia`s border and why have they offered NATO membership to Ukraine when the cold War was supposed to have ended in 1991? Honorable intentions no doubt.
    What about the endless war crimes committed by the US and their poodles? The destruction and anarchy in the wake of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Syria, etc. gets no mention from our moral friends. With the Main Stream Media`s constant cheerleading. They knew, and so should you, that the causes of these conflicts were based on blatant lies.

       Malcolm McManus
       18 August 2022 at 17:06

       I agree. I am certainly no fan of Russia, but neither a fan of the West. Both have dodgy histories and as you have mentioned, based on main stream media. Our media is very aligned to the west. As an African, I wish we could get it together to make our country and continent great without having to be puppets for the East or West. Wishful thinking though.
       Paddy Ross
       18 August 2022 at 18:13

       One can not apparently say it enough times “NATO is a defensive organisation” to which democratic nations apply for membership so that if they are invaded by any aggressor, NATO members will join with them in repulsing the aggressor. Remember the Four Musketeers? – ” All for one, one for all”.
       Neil Parker
       18 August 2022 at 20:29

       Syria ? You mention Syria. I didn’t know that Putin was a US poodle – now that’s news to me! But let’s hope that if somehow the mess in Ukraine can be resolved, a saner world will find means to settle the conflicts in all of those countries. I would add that “whataboutism” is – in general – not particularly helpful and certainly does not justify the atrocities perpetrated against the people of Ukraine not to mention Syria.

    Peter Brink
    18 August 2022 at 17:18

    I cannot imagine Nelson Mandela posing with a dictator who is in the midst of brutally invading a democratic neighboring nation.

    And then the only guy with a non-European name here shoots them all down:

    Sheda Habib
    18 August 2022 at 17:12

    I read a comment below and went and spoke to our workforce of 65 pax.
    47 voted for Russia.
    What was interesting is that many of the known, racist leaning few, made up the majority of the remaining 18 backing the USA.
    Wake up, smell the roses, South Africans are not captured by foreign Western propaganda.

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    Post  sundoesntrise Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:03 am

    Belisarius wrote:Russia taking out 100 ukrop targets everyday

    Ukrops blowing up 1 depot in one week

    Western russia supporters : „OMG I HAVE MASSIVE DIARRHEA, RUSSIA ABOUT TO LOSE, HOW CAN THEY LET THIS HAPPEN, THE GENERALS ARE ABSOLUTE DOGSHIT, NUKE KIEV“
    https://t.me/levigodman/4633

    Quite ironic. You are trying to write those who do not share your flip-flopping, inconsequential and hypocritical attitude off as unhinged drama queens, yet the only unhinged drama queens are you (and ilk). Running towards your safe space (this low exposure board) shouting in the mirror that all is fine whilst the whole world can see that the house is on fire, as such trying to defend the indefensible (borrowed that phrase from a high value member here).

    I can feel another 'gesture of goodwill' is approaching. Either that or a well aimed strike at that nuclear power plant - which will then be blamed on Russia and will forever bury any possible future Ukr. negotiations and rapprochement with Germany (which is definitely low key in the books if you know how to read between the lines in German media).

    Mediocre minds don't do well with ambiguity. They need a narrative.
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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:08 am

    flamming_python wrote:Remember those pagoda-like constructions the Russian military welded on top of their T-72s in a bid for protection against the Javelins?

    Didn't see any of those anymore after the first few weeks. It's like they worked out that the Javelin poses no threat anyway so might as well take those contraptions down

    They'll weld them back on next time they are deployed to some desert shithole. It will keep the sun off their heads.... Razz

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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:29 am

    flamming_python wrote:South African delegation was present at the Army 2022 forum, headed by their defense minister

    And I came across this somewhat jaded article in a South African newspaper; which seems to be banning Russian IPs but I just connected through a proxy anyhow

    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2022-08-17-russia-welcomes-friendly-state-sas-support-but-do-we-also-support-invasion-bombardment-and-war-crimes-in-ukraine/

    But what's really funny is the desperately butthurt comment section. Granted by how smitten they are with the Western talking points on the Ukraine, I presume these are the fellas who were not part of Nelson Mandela's support base if you catch my drift.

    Sheda Habib
    18 August 2022 at 17:12

    I read a comment below and went and spoke to our workforce of 65 pax.
    47 voted for Russia.
    What was interesting is that many of the known, racist leaning few, made up the majority of the remaining 18 backing the USA.
    Wake up, smell the roses, South Africans are not captured by foreign Western propaganda.

    Most of the "White" population I come across thinks Putin is a murdering pshyco commie that wants to rule the world, but you do get the odd one (like me) that begs to differ. The big problem is the media - they reflect Western mainstream news - even The Daily Maverick you just quoted, which is supposedly an "independent", but they spew mainly Western propaganda. People here eat this garbage for breakfast.

    It's a completely different story among the Coloured and Black communities. It's like Go Russia! Go! Laughing

    This is from News24 today - the largest online news source in South Africa >>

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 0-979a10

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    Post  nomadski Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:11 am

    Right , this time the AD was activated , therefore something was in the air . And there is nothing unusual about that . Nor is it unknown for missiles or drones to hit targets on the ground . Protecting ( more decoys ) and moving ( spreading out )  important equipment has started , and this should continue , longer supply lines are not a problem . In my view , it is better to shut down the NPP , remove fuel Rods and store in safe place . This is better than even the slightest chance of a missile or drone  attack ( American or Ukrainian )  , causing a problem . Europe will freeze this winter , and it will have great difficulty in the supply of energy to Ukraine too . But this is better than Nuclear radiation poisoning of the Eastern Regions .

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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:31 am

    Putin's not really a strong catalyst in South Africa... if you truly want a strong chemical reaction just spread a bit of Castro's ashes in the air in South Africa and you'll truly feel true hate from the sub-minority of the minority of the "captured by western propaganda" whites in SA. Some wounds will never heal.

    As for Ukraine and the Kiev regime..in an unfair fight, as that which they're engaged in, they'll take whatever the toy boys in the Kremlin give them. So when the Kremlin toy boys bluff their ass off about "decision making centers", the natural play is to expose the bluff in very public ways to humiliate those engaged in childish bluffing - and the toy boys have only themselves to blame for not following through on empty threats. The dimwitts here can cry about it and attempt to shut everyone that brings up the massive obvious as fires light up like Christmas trees all around Russia's periphery and brush it off as "inconsequential", "no big deal", "think big picture".... just to avoid all the harmful noise causing cognitive dissonance and hurting their fragile little minds but reality is here to stay. There is no safe space for you. What you should be asking yourself is why you're putting your lot with a comprador elite that not too long ago was on kneepads sucking Western cock, dreaming of being just part of the club... a club which they've been kicked out off, not "left". Considering the amount of traitors and bad faith actors plaguing Russia's halls of power any sane person should triple think twice. It's all about caution, not emotions.

    The anglo's are doubling down. No amount of propaganda coming from the Kremlin sewers about the "hopeless effort" is gonna dissuade them, cause it's not hopeless. They've successfully engineered a Russian civil war with a few printed billions, old tried and tested divide and conquer + greed and deceit. Russians were not only unable to prevent Ukraine from slipping into the abyss with the 2014 Maidan......  it's still stuck trying to figure out how to get it out after 6 months of an "SMO", which translated to plain language from Russian double-speak, is a war, more specifically - civil war at that, cause under any other time period, it would be considered as such.... unless the Belovezh Accords were the end of history...... but if they were then why the work to rebuild all of it... EEU, Union State etc. Trading an empire for a McDonalds and a parasitic, comprador elite has its mildly to say, drawbacks. Funny thing tho... none of the elites bitch about it really... they owe way too much of their current wealth to the dissolution to truly, if ever hate it. Russians truly love drama and contradictions.

    As for the delusional talking point I've been seeing floating around often about how Ukraine was/is the most formidable army in Europe... I mean if this sort of garbage makes the few clowns repeating it sleep well at night (which, as unoriginal dimwitts, they clearly copied from propagandists selling the lie). You def gotta ask... if the dimwitts can spout such garbage without realizing the idiocy the second they type the words.... at that point you have to realize you're dealing with people with the brain the size of a broken peanut. I do however would love to see present day Russia take on France conventionally... just for the hypothetical giggles in an alternate universe.


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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:53 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:Putin's not really a strong catalyst in South Africa... if you truly want a strong chemical reaction just spread a bit of Castro's ashes in the air in South Africa and you'll truly feel true hate from the sub-minority of the minority of the "captured by western propaganda" whites in SA. Some wounds will never heal.

    To the "White" minority Castro was just another commie dictator - but the "strong chemical reaction' of "true" hatred you refer to is not reality at all. Only the older generation like me do remember the Bush War - for the rest it has little meaning. For those who actually fought in the war there was a sense of mutual respect from both sides (Cuban vs SADF). The Cubans were far better trained soldiers than the MPLA troops and the SWAPO insurgents.

    Putin is hands down the winner in the "hate" category among the white minority, and Castro is not even a whisper! Laughing Laughing

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:58 am

    mnztr wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Hole wrote:
    The next game changer.  Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Problem 1: not a single sortie flown by the mighty Ukro air force in the last days.
    Problem 2: missile is inferior to the missiles they had at the beginning of the conflict.

    Grim-3 is apparently in an advance stage of development - they are just waiting for Congress to approve the 50bn funding required for the project.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Mang210

    Propellent free ESG approved stealth howitzer - $  100M:lol:

    And that will be possible only after a years-long development program that will cost $15bln. Laughing

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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:08 am

    Perhaps you're too young, out of era to understand the heat of the time, and you may be right in the sense that more than 30 years have passed since the whole campaign ended in total defeat for the SA regime... military, political, economic (extremely rare these days to see the trifecta cough cough). I guess you had to be there, or be extremely well read on the correct books (not those tainted by "tales" - overwhelming majority of them) to understand the heat of the time. So much so that even a mad dash for nukes, with silent approval by the U.S, and assistance by the Israeli's was undertaken in SA. Zero sum game. The men behind the troubles for SA wasn't the Soviet politburo and its managers.... lovers of the new "detente" (their own purpose built, hand crafted self-made coffin) who botched almost all operations they undertook in advisory role and would have landed Angola on a silver platter by their sheer incompetence, lack of ambition and vision... it was Castro and the Cubans that kept the whole strategic play, Angola being the main ship, afloat, and ultimately pushed it to its rightful conclusion, despite the Soviets sunsetting in the rear mirror to total defeat. Too late I guess for the Soviets to reap the geopolitical fruits of their "aid", but not late enough for Angola, Namibia, and Mandela, by extension, South Africa itself to reap the fruits of a new, much better, age. There is a Russian commonality here though... the lack of balls was as ever evident then as it's today. Kinda funny to see Russia today in the merc business in Africa (the turntables)... back then totally taboo, Africa being a hotspot.


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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:20 am

    Re: the mighty western-style aircraft shelters Laughing

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Zrzut_28

    A supa dupa secret airbase from the latest Top Gun movie.
    Noticed the fancy canvas tents for planes?
    Yup, that would be all folks Laughing

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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:28 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:Perhaps you're too young, out of era to understand the heat of the time, and you may be right in the sense that more than 30 years have passed since the whole campaign ended in total defeat for the SA regime... military, political, economic (extremely rare these days to see the trifecta cough cough). I guess you had to be there, or be extremely well read on the correct books (not those tainted by "tales" - overwhelming majority of them) to understand the heat of the time. So much so that even a mad dash for nukes, with silent approval by the U.S, and assistance by the Israeli's was undertaken in SA. Zero sum game. The men behind the troubles wasn't the Soviet politburo and its managers.... lovers of the new "detente" (their own purpose built, hand crafted self-made coffin) who botched almost all operations they undertook in advisory role.... it was Castro and the Cubans that kept the whole strategic play, Angola being the main ship, afloat, and ultimately pushed it to its rightful conclusion, despite the Soviets sunsetting in the rear mirror to total defeat. Too late I guess for the Soviets to reap the geopolitical fruits of their "aid", but not late enough for Angola, Namibia, and Mandela, by extension, South Africa itself. There is a Russian commonality here though... the lack of balls then was as ever evident as it's today.

    I normally don't write long essays because the majority - like you - can't read properly anyway >> esp the young ones like you...

    Mir wrote:Only the older generation like me do remember the Bush War
    Laughing Laughing

    BTW the war ended because the CIA pulled the plug on SA and not because the Cubans won as per your fantasy. At night we could see Luanda's lights in the distance deep inside Angola - then they pulled the plug and we had to leave, and not anything like the US withdrawal from Vietnam or Afghanistan! Laughing

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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:34 am

    I'm not here to make you believe what you don't want to believe. Nor I'm here to steal pride.... every man has to have a lil bit of it, national pride included

    Just look at the map tho.... and the face of this man. Sure it was all CIA "pulling the plug". The Kiev regime will say that too, eventually.... once lil Putin and his cadre figure it out..... if they figure it out.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Nelson_rolihlahla_mandela


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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:35 am

    Too late I guess for the Soviets to reap the geopolitical fruits of their "aid"


    Sometimes, it is good to remind yourself why you keep a person in a trash bin, like for this special case Laughing
    How can one discuss anything with a guy living in the alternate universe?
    In the universe here, Russkie are just reconquesting Africa, including all the France client states.
    And the conference organized in Moscow, attracted all - ALL - African countries.
    They enjoy much more solid position there than the Soviet Union, and without a massive spending the Soviets has made.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:37 am

    ALAMO wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    Hole wrote:
    The next game changer.  Laughing Laughing Laughing
    Problem 1: not a single sortie flown by the mighty Ukro air force in the last days.
    Problem 2: missile is inferior to the missiles they had at the beginning of the conflict.

    Grim-3 is apparently in an advance stage of development - they are just waiting for Congress to approve the 50bn funding required for the project.

    Propellent free ESG approved stealth howitzer - $  100M:lol:

    And that will be possible only after a years-long development program that will cost $15bln. Laughing

    In true Ukropi fashion, it will be $50,000 to pay for the serfs who labout to design and build it, $2M for the factory manager, $5M for the owner of the design shop, $12M for the senior public servent holding the contract, $16M for the government minister responsible, $25M to keep the Nationalists from killing the aforementioned and taking their share, $35M for the various NATO and EU viceroys overlooking the project, $235M for the Oligarch who owns the enterprises involved, and the balance of $14,669,950,000-00 goes back to the US Deep State and the MIC owners (minus the obligatory kick-backs to politicians and lobbyists who ran the necessary cover in the budget).

    If I've forgotten anyone, pls let me know. Razz

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    Post  ATLASCUB Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:38 am

    It's ok ALAMO. It wasn't just you who I was referring to when I said the "brain of a broken peanut"... you have some friends with you there. Remember, Ukraine is the best army in Europe... that's why it's taking soo long. I trust your insight and judgement on that one for sure.

    Pitiful reactionary clowns.


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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:40 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:

    In true Ukropi fashion, it will be $50,000 to pay for the serfs who labout to design and build it, $2M for the factory manager, $5M for the owner of the design shop, $12M for the senior public servent holding the contract, $16M for the government minister responsible, $25M to keep the Nationalists from killing the aforementioned and taking their share, $35M for the various NATO and EU viceroys overlooking the project, $235M for the Oligarch who owns the enterprises involved, and the balance of $14,669,950,000-00 goes back to the US Deep State and the MIC owners (minus the obligatory kick-backs to politicians and lobbyists who ran the necessary cover in the budget).

    If I've forgotten anyone, pls let me know. Razz

    It is as per an old joke when a German company made a tender to repair the doors.
    A Turk applied for 100 euro, and a Pole applied with 1000 euro.
    German supervisor asked : how it is possible, that you want 10 times what Turk wants?
    A Pole answers: it is very easy math! A 500 euro for me, a 400 euro for you, and 100 euro for Turk, because someone has to repair it!

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    Mir
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  Mir Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:49 am

    ATLASCUB wrote:
    Just look at the map tho.... and the face of this man.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Nelson_rolihlahla_mandela

    Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

    You posted the wrong picture dude! It should have been Jacob Zuma to get any negative reaction. Nelson Mandela is an icon and a hero he makes us South Africans proud. Stay on topic or go crawl back into your hole.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  limb Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:12 am

    Now that Belgorod region has been contaminated with lepestok mines and the crimean bridge was reached by Ukrainian drones, when will Russian aircraft destroy all bridges across the dnepr?

    There should be around 50 Su-34s, 60 Su-24M2s and 40-60 Su-30s going on sorties at the same time towards all the bridges. The Su-34s and Su-24s should each be loaded with 2 unguided FAB-1500s, and use their CCIP computers to destroy the bridges. There should be 4 bombers directed at each bridge. If there are 35 bridges, that
    means 140 bomber strikes, meaning, 3 days of constant sorties. The Su-30s should be carrying ARMs and AAMs to destroy any SAM radar or stray Ukrainian fighter.

    This is completely dosble, with very few losses, because the Ukrainians can only use optically guided buks from short range in good weather.


    Mir
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  Mir Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:17 am

    limb wrote:Now that Belgorod region has been contaminated with lepestok mines and the crimean bridge was reached by Ukrainian drones, when will Russian aircraft destroy all bridges across the dnepr?

    There should be  around 50 Su-34s, 60 Su-24M2s and 40-60 Su-30s going on sorties at the same time towards all the bridges. The Su-34s and Su-24s should each be loaded with 2 unguided FAB-1500s, and use their CCIP computers to destroy the bridges. There should be 4 bombers directed at each bridge. If there are 35 bridges, that
    means 140 bomber strikes, meaning, 3 days of constant sorties. The Su-30s should be carrying ARMs and AAMs to destroy any  SAM radar or stray Ukrainian fighter.

    This is completely dosble, with very few losses, because the Ukrainians can only use optically guided buks from short range in good weather.



    That's counter productive. Russia needs to cross those bridges to conquer the land west of the Dnepr.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:28 am

    Curiously Curious
    @justcurious1313
    ·
    23h
    The Russian MIL have been studying biological samples from surrendered Ukrainian soldiers, and what they have been finding is beyond disturbing.



    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Fab1YO3aUAAyC4X?format=jpg&name=small

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:30 am

    D'ARAMITZ
    @2ndNewMoon
    ·
    Aug 18
    If you don't think #Ukraine has a Nazi problem, you're probably on your 4th or 5th Covid vaccine.



    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 FaZ2VkBX0AYm0Yh?format=jpg&name=small

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

    Post  limb Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:43 am

    Mir wrote:
    limb wrote:Now that Belgorod region has been contaminated with lepestok mines and the crimean bridge was reached by Ukrainian drones, when will Russian aircraft destroy all bridges across the dnepr?

    There should be  around 50 Su-34s, 60 Su-24M2s and 40-60 Su-30s going on sorties at the same time towards all the bridges. The Su-34s and Su-24s should each be loaded with 2 unguided FAB-1500s, and use their CCIP computers to destroy the bridges. There should be 4 bombers directed at each bridge. If there are 35 bridges, that
    means 140 bomber strikes, meaning, 3 days of constant sorties. The Su-30s should be carrying ARMs and AAMs to destroy any  SAM radar or stray Ukrainian fighter.

    This is completely dosble, with very few losses, because the Ukrainians can only use optically guided buks from short range in good weather.



    That's counter productive. Russia needs to cross those bridges to conquer the land west of the Dnepr.

    They can use bridgelayers. Are you saying the Russian army, which for 70 years trained rlwide river crossings in a cold war gone hot scenario, has lost the capability to mass build pontoon bridges?

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